2022 NAQT ICT: Division I specific question discussion

[Important Bird Area]

This is your specific-question discussion thread for the 2022 Division I ICT set.

[Daedalus]

Could I see the tossup on particle beams, please? In particular, I'd like to know why "particle colliders" was promptable and "particle accelerators" wasn't, given that those terms are generally used interchangeably for "the larger apparatus in which particle beams are used."

[Important Bird Area]

Unidentified Falling Objects cause losses in one of these things and lead it to be dumped by dilution kickers that sweep it in a Lissajous figure. The total momentum over the total charge of these things is their rigidity, a measure of how easily they can be guided by magnets. Wigglers periodically (*) deflect these things that are kept circulating in storage rings, as seen at the Tevatron and LHC. A fixed target may be struck by—for 10 points—what collimated streams in particle accelerators?

answer: particle beams (accept particle collider(s) before "dumped"; prompt on "(particle) collider(s)" after "dumped" and before "rigidity"; before "streams," prompt on "(charged) particles" with "the particles are moving as part of what things?")

[setht]

Could I see the tossup on particle beams, please? In particular, I'd like to know why "particle colliders" was promptable and "particle accelerators" wasn't, given that those terms are generally used interchangeably for "the larger apparatus in which particle beams are used."

Going back through the protests, I see two protests in DI on that tossup, and one of those was a buzz of "particle accelerators" at "rigidity." (The other protest was a different answer.) The accelerator protest was marked moot, and was never ruled on. I can't say for sure what our ruling would have been had we gotten to this one before it was marked moot, but I think we would have said "the moderator read the word 'rigidity' so we're no longer prompting on 'particle colliders', therefore we are also not prompting on 'particle accelerators'." (The other possibility, I think, is that we might have decided we'd still prompt on "particle colliders" for a buzz right at "rigidity" and therefore we would also prompt on "particle accelerators.") In short, I think we'd almost certainly treat "accelerators" and "colliders" the same for this question. Not including "accelerators" in the answer line (with the same instructions as for "colliders") was an oversight on our part.

[Sima Guang Hater]

The tossup on acrosome was very good and interesting. However, there's a hellish alternate universe where, in a nail-biting Finals 1 tossup 24, a knowledgable player hears "The protein IZUMO1 localizes to the membrane" and negs with sperm, with no prompt whatsoever. Also more importantly there's no prompt for Golgi apparatus (from which the acrosome derives), or plasma membrane, where IZUMO1 localizes after the acrosome reaction (at least I'm guessing it does since it has to bind to JUNO on the egg plasma membrane). I could do this better myself, but please make sure that your referent appears before any clues in a question if at all possible.

[Good Goblin Housekeeping]

The tossup on acrosome was very good and interesting. However, there's a hellish alternate universe where, in a nail-biting Finals 1 tossup 24, a knowledgable player hears "The protein IZUMO1 localizes to the membrane" and negs with sperm, with no prompt whatsoever. Also more importantly there's no prompt for Golgi apparatus (from which the acrosome derives), or plasma membrane, where IZUMO1 localizes after the acrosome reaction (at least I'm guessing it does since it has to bind to JUNO on the egg plasma membrane). I could do this better myself, but please make sure that your referent appears before any clues in a question if at all possible.

Yeah that would be really rough I'd really hope that knowledgeable players should also know the rules of the tournament they play in, such as NAQT's 13.d.i which states "If the player signaled prior to the end of the first sentence of the question, the response shall be evaluated as if the signal had occurred at the end of the first sentence. That is, a protest that an answer during the first sentence was “correct when the player buzzed” will be unsuccessful if the rest of the first sentence would have ruled out that answer, but will be successful if the rest of the first sentence failed to rule out that answer."

(Also it may be rough but given that later clues explicitly mention skipping the acrosome's function I don't think you can reasonably prompt on the Golgi apparatus after a certain point, also you cannot seriously tell me you expect anyone to have sympathy for an answer of (the plasma) membrane if someone has already heard the words "the membrane" Eric)

[Sima Guang Hater]

The tossup on acrosome was very good and interesting. However, there's a hellish alternate universe where, in a nail-biting Finals 1 tossup 24, a knowledgable player hears "The protein IZUMO1 localizes to the membrane" and negs with sperm, with no prompt whatsoever. Also more importantly there's no prompt for Golgi apparatus (from which the acrosome derives), or plasma membrane, where IZUMO1 localizes after the acrosome reaction (at least I'm guessing it does since it has to bind to JUNO on the egg plasma membrane). I could do this better myself, but please make sure that your referent appears before any clues in a question if at all possible.

Yeah that would be really rough I'd really hope that knowledgeable players should also know the rules of the tournament they play in, such as NAQT's 13.d.i which states "If the player signaled prior to the end of the first sentence of the question, the response shall be evaluated as if the signal had occurred at the end of the first sentence. That is, a protest that an answer during the first sentence was “correct when the player buzzed” will be unsuccessful if the rest of the first sentence would have ruled out that answer, but will be successful if the rest of the first sentence failed to rule out that answer."

I'm familiar with the rule. That doesn't mean moving the referent earlier wouldn't produce a more easily playable question.

[Good Goblin Housekeeping]

The tossup on acrosome was very good and interesting. However, there's a hellish alternate universe where, in a nail-biting Finals 1 tossup 24, a knowledgable player hears "The protein IZUMO1 localizes to the membrane" and negs with sperm, with no prompt whatsoever. Also more importantly there's no prompt for Golgi apparatus (from which the acrosome derives), or plasma membrane, where IZUMO1 localizes after the acrosome reaction (at least I'm guessing it does since it has to bind to JUNO on the egg plasma membrane). I could do this better myself, but please make sure that your referent appears before any clues in a question if at all possible.

Yeah that would be really rough I'd really hope that knowledgeable players should also know the rules of the tournament they play in, such as NAQT's 13.d.i which states "If the player signaled prior to the end of the first sentence of the question, the response shall be evaluated as if the signal had occurred at the end of the first sentence. That is, a protest that an answer during the first sentence was “correct when the player buzzed” will be unsuccessful if the rest of the first sentence would have ruled out that answer, but will be successful if the rest of the first sentence failed to rule out that answer."

I'm familiar with the rule. That doesn't mean moving the referent earlier wouldn't produce a more easily playable question.

I never disagreed with this claim, however based on character length constraints I'm under the impression it can be moved like, maybe at best 3 words ahead to go from "the membrane of this organelle" to "this organelle's membrane" which may be slightly better but is pretty minor (this would also make an additional clause in the lead-in sentence ungrammatical as a consequence)

[Sima Guang Hater]

I never disagreed with this claim, however based on character length constraints I'm under the impression it can be moved like, maybe at best 3 words ahead to go from "the membrane of this organelle" to "this organelle's membrane" which may be slightly better but is pretty minor (this would also make an additional clause in the lead-in sentence ungrammatical as a consequence)

The protein IZUMO1 localizes to the membrane of this organelle, which is structurally divided into an anterior segment and an equatorial segment.

Clocks in at 145 characters.

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1. This organelle is structurally divided into anterior and equatorial segments. (132 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, and it is structurally divided into anterior and equatorial segments. (124 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, and is structurally divided into anterior and equatorial segments. (121 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, which moves from its anterior segment to its equatorial segment. (119 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, which moves from its anterior to its equatorial segment. (111 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, which moves from its anterior to its equatorial segment before binding to JUNO. (134 char)

This organelle's membrane contains the protein IZUMO1, which relies on GLIPR1L1 to redistribute from its anterior to its equatorial segment. (140 char)

[meebles127]

What were the conversion stats for the Peyton Place TU?

[Important Bird Area]

No conversion data available because it was in the backup packet.

[meebles127]

No conversion data available because it was in the backup packet.

Oh that makes sense lmao

[Cheynem]

I have mixed feelings tossing up such a thing--it's a culturally important thing (as a book, film, and TV show!), but I doubt there's a lot of knowledge in the field that needs gradating. Might have been better as a bonus part. Cool idea, though.

[meebles127]

What was the conversion data on packet 8 bonus 6?

[Important Bird Area]

Four rooms heard that bonus- three zeroed it and the other one converted part C. (this was the bonus about dub poetry)