Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

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Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

Quiz Bowl at NYU is pleased to announce a mirror of Fall Open to be held on November 9, 2019. See more information about the question set here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22134.

REGISTRATION
To register, email me at mbb476 at NYU's domain name (nyu.edu). If you're an open team, be sure to mention the names of all your players and to provide a team name if you wish.

Here is a declaration of interest/team formation spreadsheet: https://bit.ly/2YTpoKk. If you'd like to staff, there's also space here to sign up. (Note that you will not be officially registered until someone from your team emails me.)

The field is capped at 15 teams (based on room availability).

FEES
Base Fee: $120/team
Buzzer Discount: -$10 per complete, functioning buzzer set
Staffer Discount: -$10 for a competent staffer
Travel Discount: -$5 per person traveling over 150 miles to the tournament
Minimum Fee: $80

Payment must be made on the day of the tournament by cash or check. Please make any checks out to "New York University" with "Quiz Bowl at NYU" in the memo line. Payment by Venmo is also possible with advance notice.

LOGISTICS
The tournament will take place in NYU's Global Center for Academic and Spiritual Life (GCASL), located at 238 Thompson St, New York, NY 10012. We will begin registration at 9:00am and begin games around 9:20am.

We'll be playing Reel Knowledge, an academic film set, after the conclusion of the tournament. There will be no cost. Fill out this form to express interest: https://forms.gle/VhVcM9orK2jkHxD39.

Finally, feel free to email me at the above address or respond to this post with any questions or concerns. We look forward to seeing everyone at NYU in November!

FIELD (11/15; registered teams only)
Brown (1 team/0 buzzers/0 staffers)
Columbia (2/3/0)
NYU Old (1/0/0)
Rutgers (2/1/0)
Simons, Chen, Mehigan, Painter (1/0/0)
Wang, Mayer, Pavao, Kuang (1/0/0)
Yale (2/4/0)
Yale X (1/0/1)
Last edited by Marcion of Sinope on Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:14 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: "Summer" Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Open challenge to Chicago: come out and play us here!
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Re: "Summer" Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by vinteuil »

Jacob R., ex-Chicago
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Re: "Summer" Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

vinteuil wrote: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:32 am
Periplus of the Erythraean Sea wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:17 pm Open challenge to Chicago: come out and play us here!
https://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic ... 72#p360587

https://societymusictheory.org/events/meeting2019/main
Unclear which is a better reason (both are good)
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

Based on room reservations, the field cap will be 15 teams, which I don't anticipate being an issue.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Simon de Montfort »

Would anyone who is playing/staffing this tournament be interested in playing Reel Knowledge (the academic film set) as a side event? I'm looking at traveling to New York around the time of this tournament. If I am in New York, I would probably look at staffing (or, god forbid, playing) Fall Open. I've also been excited about potentially playing Reel Knowledge since it was announced, and I thought this might be a good chance.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by UlyssesInvictus »

Simon de Montfort wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:19 am Would anyone who is playing/staffing this tournament be interested in playing Reel Knowledge (the academic film set) as a side event? I'm looking at traveling to New York around the time of this tournament. If I am in New York, I would probably look at staffing (or, god forbid, playing) Fall Open. I've also been excited about potentially playing Reel Knowledge since it was announced, and I thought this might be a good chance.
By god, count me in.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by UlyssesInvictus »

And I guess I'd play the Open as well, too, if it helps Reel get run.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

We'll be mirroring Reel Knowledge, an academic film set, after the conclusion of Fall Open. Format will *probably* be a one- or two-room shootout, but this could change depending on how many people want to participate. Express interest here: https://forms.gle/j9fREezsZ4h8SBXt9. There will be no cost.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

I'm interested in playing Reel Knowledge and getting thoroughly humbled by better players
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Kouign Amann »

Hey, just remembered about this. If you, like me, are around New York but without a team because you also forgot this was happening, let's see if we can put something together. I could also probably staff if nothing pans out.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by DogeofVenice »

Hi all, I know this is super last minute, but Geoff, Aidan, and I are looking for a fourth for this, preferably a lit player. If anyone is interested, please PM me.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

"Columbia B+" has an open slot - message me if you're interested in playing with them
Last edited by naan/steak-holding toll on Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by UlyssesInvictus »

_nestorius wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:47 pm We'll be mirroring Reel Knowledge, an academic film set, after the conclusion of Fall Open. Format will *probably* be a one- or two-room shootout, but this could change depending on how many people want to participate. Express interest here: https://forms.gle/j9fREezsZ4h8SBXt9. There will be no cost.
Do you know any more yet about the potential format of Reel Knowledge, or when it's expected to start/finish? Still hoping to play it, but have to make plans around its timing.

Thanks!
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

UlyssesInvictus wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:16 pm Do you know any more yet about the potential format of Reel Knowledge, or when it's expected to start/finish? Still hoping to play it, but have to make plans around its timing.
What's for certain is that it will end at or before 8:00pm, since that's when we're required to vacate the rooms. It will start whenever the tournament ends, which I hope will not be too late.

As for format, twelve people have currently expressed interest. If we end up with that or a similar number, my proposal would be to split into a two-room shootout (with upper and lower rooms), have the 3/2/1 lowest/highest scorers move down/up after each of the first three rounds respectively (or 2/1 after the first two), and then play as many of the rest of the seven packets as we have time for. If people more experienced at this sort of thing have better suggestions, though, do speak up.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Columbia B is still looking for interested free agents!
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Santa Claus »

_nestorius wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:47 pm We'll be mirroring Reel Knowledge, an academic film set, after the conclusion of Fall Open. Format will *probably* be a one- or two-room shootout, but this could change depending on how many people want to participate. Express interest here: https://forms.gle/j9fREezsZ4h8SBXt9. There will be no cost.
I’d like to indicate that I’m very willing to staff this side event.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

Congratulations to Yale X (Stephen Eltinge, Moses Kitakule, Laurence Li, and Auyush Rajasekaran), who went 10-0 to win the tournament. Columbia A (Rafael Krichevsky, Will Alston, Harrison Whitaker, and Noah Chen) took second place with a 9-1.

Thanks to everyone who attended our tournament, and to all our staffers—especially Olivia Murton, Jason Golfinos, and Sameen Belal—for making today possible. Also thanks to Rohan Vora for his extremely prompt stats reports.

We also played all seven packets of Reel Knowledge as a one-room shootout, with IKD (340 points), Juliet Mayer (310), and Harrison Whitaker (215) being the top scorers.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

_nestorius wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:27 pm Congratulations to Yale X (Stephen Eltinge, Moses Kitakule, Laurence Li, and Auyush Rajasekaran), who went 10-0 to win the tournament. Columbia A (Rafael Krichevsky, Will Alston, Harrison Whitaker, and Noah Chen) took second place with a 9-1.
Was there a final played between the top two teams?
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by aseem.keyal »

Thanks for playing, a discussion forum with detailed stats and web packets is now available!
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

gimmedatguudsuccrose wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:34 pm Was there a final played between the top two teams?
Although I recognize this is not standard practice, we did not hold finals. This was mostly, though not entirely, my decision, and I'll accept responsibility for the disappointment/etc. that may have resulted.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Yeah, I'm not going to pretend that I'm not disappointed by what happened - we played extremely well and were unfairly denied a chance to play a final despite the tournament finishing at a very reasonable time of 6pm. I get NYU's reasoning for choosing to not have one originally, as the plan was a 13 round RR, but we ended up with 11 teams so this wasn't necessary. I don't think we got what we signed up for.

I also wanted to call out Yale X for being somewhat unsportsmanlike about things - having spoken to them during the day, they originally indicated that they wanted to abide by normal quizbowl standards and play a final. At days end, though, they said they were hungry and wanted to get home - which is understandable, but I strongly feel that if you're going to play a tournament, you should have some competitive spirit and see it through. They played very well in their game against us and very much deserved that game win, but I'm very disappointed with their decision to bail when we finished at a very reasonable time.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by gerbilownage »

Under normal circumstances I’d want to play a final, but I had a bus at 9 and was meeting an old friend who I wanted to spend more time with. Moses had a train at 8 as well. Speaking for myself I can understand Will’s POV and can’t really add much besides what he already said about being tired and wanting to skedaddle, just that a final which could take 30+ minutes might have eaten into our plans/itineraries. Maybe there’s something to be said here about the “competitiveness” of open or summer tournaments vs. tournaments like ACF regs/nats, or if they should be held to different standards of formality. My view is that that they are more informal but that’s my own very, very humble opinion.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by UlyssesInvictus »

Finals aside, I thought the tournament was well run and all the staff were really cool. I also appreciated the chance to play Reel Knowledge a lot (even if I negged myself into oblivion and had to leave early).
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by The Stately Rhododendron »

Wish I could have played the whole tournament, but was cutting down forsythia in Inwood.
Reel Knowledge was a lot of fun - much respect to the hosts - they kept it moving quite quickly for a side event.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by gyre and gimble »

gerbilownage wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:36 pm Under normal circumstances I’d want to play a final, but I had a bus at 9 and was meeting an old friend who I wanted to spend more time with. Moses had a train at 8 as well. Speaking for myself I can understand Will’s POV and can’t really add much besides what he already said about being tired and wanting to skedaddle, just that a final which could take 30+ minutes might have eaten into our plans/itineraries. Maybe there’s something to be said here about the “competitiveness” of open or summer tournaments vs. tournaments like ACF regs/nats, or if they should be held to different standards of formality. My view is that that they are more informal but that’s my own very, very humble opinion.
Understanding that it's your humble opinion, I would say it is completely incorrect.

Strictly from a contractual perspective, Columbia paid for and earned a final, so they were entitled to one, regardless of the nature of the tournament. The correct decision for NYU would have been to award Columbia victory by forfeit.

But also from a community perspective, Columbia entered a competitive event with the expectation that it would be able to play it to its full. Even had Columbia been awarded the victory, it's not very satisfying, is it? To win the tournament by default because a team with a better record than you had to go home early? It seems disrespectful to deny Columbia an opportunity to win properly. Also, if we start relaxing community norms on this kind of thing, it would delegitimize the activity. I mean, come on. This isn't pickup basketball.

Ironically, Will's Dartmouth team was heavily criticized on these forums for leaving 2014 ACF Nationals early. I agree with you that this is not as egregious because ACF Nationals is a bigger deal, but it was wrong for essentially the same reason. You owe it to your competitors to play all the games you've signed up for, especially if you are at the top of the competition.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Dreams »

FWIW, NYU stated on the schedules that a final would only be placed if there were two teams tied for first place. I don't think (but I'm not certain) that it was announced anywhere public before the date of the tournament though, which is Not Good.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by Marcion of Sinope »

gyre and gimble wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:28 pm Strictly from a contractual perspective, Columbia paid for and earned a final, so they were entitled to one, regardless of the nature of the tournament. The correct decision for NYU would have been to award Columbia victory by forfeit.

But also from a community perspective, Columbia entered a competitive event with the expectation that it would be able to play it to its full.
To be clear, the understanding from the beginning of the tournament (i.e., it was noted in the logistics email and printed on the schedule as such) was that finals would be played only if the top two teams had identical records, which, as Will said, was in part an unfortunate holdover from before Harvard dropped from the field and the format was going to be a grueling 13-round round robin.

I point that out for two reasons: (1) The (at least implicit) set of expectations for the tournament was in fact commensurate with how the tournament proceeded, even though I recognize (more now than I did then, unfortunately) that those expectations did not meet community standards. (N.B., Geoffrey is correct about this format not being publicly announced.) (2) Although it's been discussed (and memed) at times as if the opposite were the case, it was ultimately my decision that finals didn't happen; I do trust that, had I said we were going to play finals, Yale X would have gladly participated. Responsibility lies with me for this debacle, and any vitriol/public shaming/etc. should be directed at me and not the members of Yale X.
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Re: Fall Open at NYU (Nov. 9, 2019)

Post by gyre and gimble »

_nestorius wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:18 pmTo be clear, the understanding from the beginning of the tournament (i.e., it was noted in the logistics email and printed on the schedule as such) was that finals would be played only if the top two teams had identical records, which, as Will said, was in part an unfortunate holdover from before Harvard dropped from the field and the format was going to be a grueling 13-round round robin.
Oh, okay. Sorry, I was inadequately informed. It still seems like there should have been (and was?) some kind of agreement formed among the teams who showed up in the morning after it became apparent that they would not be playing a 13-round round robin.
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