2018 Sun God Invitational Specific Question Request and Discussion

[naan/steak-holding toll]

These objects name a [emphasize] compositional style exemplified by a slow F major piece in 6/4 time in which the right hand repeats rising second-inversion broken triads, usually “C F A,” while the left hand alternates longer notes of the tonic above and below that.

I assume this clue is talking about Spiegel im Spiegel, but it confused me a bit when I played it—looking at the score, the broken chords that the right hand plays are not always second-inversion triads. For example, the fourth measure contains the notes "B flat F G," which doesn't form a triad at all. I could be reading the clue wrong, but it seems to imply that the notes that the right hand plays are always second-inversion broken triads that are usually "C F A." In addition, the left hand plays C's, A's, G's quite often, alternating between C and F in the first few measures, as opposed to just the tonic. Also, was there a specific reason why the solo part in the piece isn't mentioned? I feel like it would help make the clue a lot more buzzable, since it's a pretty major part of the piece.

But anyway, thanks for writing this! I loved playing the set, and found the arts especially fun.

These are good points - Ophir and I will see if we can come up with a better phrasing. Thanks for the constructive criticism!

[vinteuil]

Could I see the tossup on bells Estonian composer Arvo Pärt (“pairt”)

This is a very minor point, not meant as a criticism: Estonians HATE when you Germanize the pronunciation of Pärt's last name, which is pronounced more like the English "part." I would recommend just not giving a pronunciation guide à la Nabokov.

[Judson Laipply]

13. Wenxiang (“wun-sh’yong”) diagrams are used to determine if protein chains will adopt this structure in certain environments. One of these structures with repeating proline residues is commonly used as a molecular ruler. Over 25 percent of protein structures following this motif terminate with Schellman loops. Cro repressors often form DNA binding motifs that contain two of these structures around a turn. (*) Transmembrane proteins often adopt this structure since no polar groups are exposed within the plasma membrane. Methionine and alanine residues help stabilize this structure, while glycine residues destabilize it. The X-ray crystallography image of Maurice Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin elucidated one type of this structure. For 10 points, DNA has a double form of what structure that forms a class of secondary structures in proteins?
ANSWER: helices [or helix; accept double helix or alpha helix or protein helices or DNA helices]
<Biology, RRP>

Almost forgot about this tossup. When you’re tossing up a protein structure at regs difficulty it’s 99.9% alpha helix or beta sheet. And bringing up that it’s a protein structure in line one is not ideal.

And when the next clue says that one example has a bunch of proline, it’s almost certainly beta sheets since proline is a notorious helix breaker.

Now I was so unsure that this was the case that I waited until beta sheets was clearly wrong but there should have been a good number of biochemists negging on that clue.

[Jason Cheng]

13. Wenxiang (“wun-sh’yong”) diagrams are used to determine if protein chains will adopt this structure in certain environments. One of these structures with repeating proline residues is commonly used as a molecular ruler. Over 25 percent of protein structures following this motif terminate with Schellman loops. Cro repressors often form DNA binding motifs that contain two of these structures around a turn. (*) Transmembrane proteins often adopt this structure since no polar groups are exposed within the plasma membrane. Methionine and alanine residues help stabilize this structure, while glycine residues destabilize it. The X-ray crystallography image of Maurice Wilkins and Rosalind Franklin elucidated one type of this structure. For 10 points, DNA has a double form of what structure that forms a class of secondary structures in proteins?
ANSWER: helices [or helix; accept double helix or alpha helix or protein helices or DNA helices]
<Biology, RRP>

Almost forgot about this tossup. When you’re tossing up a protein structure at regs difficulty it’s 99.9% alpha helix or beta sheet. And bringing up that it’s a protein structure in line one is not ideal.

And when the next clue says that one example has a bunch of proline, it’s almost certainly beta sheets since proline is a notorious helix breaker.

Now I was so unsure that this was the case that I waited until beta sheets was clearly wrong but there should have been a good number of biochemists negging on that clue.

There were no negs within power for this clue. The first neg occurred on "Transmembrane proteins," the first power was at the end of the "Wenxiang diagrams" sentence and the other two powers were on the end of the HTH clue. Your neg was on "Methionine and alanine residues help stabilize-," which was the closest of the three negs to the end of the question.

Stepping away from stats, and into my education as a biochemist, I thought about the proline residues=beta sheets confusion possibility when I was editing this tossup, but decided it was fine because 1) it was a relatively short sentence which hopefully contextualized the clue, and I wouldn't expect a generic beta sheet to be used as a molecular ruler (the clue is about a ruler helix), and 2) proline "kinks" are notoriously found on countless protein structures with turns because, like you said, they break structure.

As someone who emphatically doesn't study science for quiz bowl and joined Aseem in editing bio+chem because we were responding to responsibility breakdown, I'll admit that it could have been a hose if it turns out proline=beta sheet is a common QB clue and I would've never known, so I'll adjust this clue to more directly point at ruler helices and remove proteins from the leadin. Thanks for the feedback!

It seems as if you and your team thought there were blanket systematic issues with the science, among other categories. Since I'd like to fix these issues, aside from this question and the sterile neutrinos one, what else did you have in mind?

[Good Goblin Housekeeping]

It's pretty problematic that the tu immediately says this is a structure that protein chains adopt in the first line since it immediatelytu rns the tu into a 50/50 regardless of the difficulty of the other clues

EDIT: oh also that transmembrane thing doesn't really eliminate beta barrels

[Jason Cheng]

The proteins mention has been removed, thanks!

Beta-barrel membrane proteins are pretty rare besides in prokaryotes and chloroplasts/mitochondria and I made the mistake of thinking the biochem exam dogma of “identify transmembrane sequences by first looking for the helix sections” would be enough to tie it down—would something like changing the clue to directly ask about, say, the seven transmembrane helices motif help?

[Jason Cheng]

After looking more at this tossup, I’ve decided double helices and protein helices are too different to toss up together—I’ll be changing this tossup

[a bird]

EAS seemed like a difficult answerline for this difficulty (and advanced stats seem to bear that out).

Hey, so this is great example of why you can't always try to argue stuff with empirical evidence from stats. People are not good at chemistry!
That being said, electrophilic aromatic substitution is a major subject in literally every single intro level organic class. In all honesty it's content people are more likely to buzz on than like, various chromium containing compounds

I totally agree with Andrew that EAS is important and well known to people who've taken chem classes. This brings up a different issues related to difficulty. When we describe the difficulty of a question, are we comparing the question to knowledge in accademia (e.g. what comes up in tro/advanced classes, what research techniques are common) or are we comparing the question to the knowledge base of quizbowlers? In my opinion we have to do some of both. It's important to make sure teams have a chance to convert your questions, even if they haven't taken intro level orgo/E&M/whatever especially at lower difficulty tournaments.

Circling back to the question at hand, I think EAS is a fine answer for regionals level, but is probably too hard for EFT/medium difficulty.

edit: punctuation

[Good Goblin Housekeeping]

EAS seemed like a difficult answerline for this difficulty (and advanced stats seem to bear that out).

Hey, so this is great example of why you can't always try to argue stuff with empirical evidence from stats. People are not good at chemistry!
That being said, electrophilic aromatic substitution is a major subject in literally every single intro level organic class. In all honesty it's content people are more likely to buzz on than like, various chromium containing compounds

I totally agree with Andrew that EAS is important and well known to people who've taken chem classes. This brings up a different issues related to difficulty. When we describe the difficulty of a question, are we comparing the question to knowledge in accademia (e.g. what comes up in tro/advanced classes, what research techniques are common) or are we comparing the question to the knowledge base of quizbowlers? In my opinion we have to do some of both. It's important to make sure teams have a chance to convert your questions, even if they haven't taken intro level orgo/E&M/whatever especially at lower difficulty tournaments.

Circling back to the question at hand, I think EAS is a fine answer for regionals level, but is probably too hard for EFT/medium difficulty.

edit: punctuation

obviously it's hard to estimate how much people should be expected to know about topics that feel more niche, but EAS is covered in orgo I which is taken by pretty much anyone getting a bio or chem degree and is covered to the extent you'd cover like the hamiltonian or lagrangian in a comprable mechanics class. It seems odd that something that is ubiquitously taught to undergrads in their first or second years in an extremely common subset of majors would be too hard for a lower level tournament

[Carlos Be]

Can I see the bonus part on Urdu poetry? I think I remember it clueing Agha Shahid Ali as writing in Urdu, but I think the majority of his works are in English. In addition, I think the lead-in for the tossup on convergence also applies to other theorems (for example, the equality of mixed partials), although I may have misparsed the clue while playing it. I thought the literature bonus about "The Revolution will not be Televised" bonus was super cool since it asked a good and famous poet that is not commonly asked about in quiz bowl.

EDIT: I did misparse the clue.

[Eddie]

Ive noticed a worrying number of negs on my Helios tossup with "Apollo", and Id be interested in hearing from those who made this neg. The first mirror on 10 November 2018 had a less-than-optimal giveaway asking for a "god of the Sun", so I understand if anyone negged due to that, but as far as I know, none of the clues in the revised version of the tossup (pasted below) played on the second mirror on 17 November 2018 have any clues pointing to Apollo. In particular, this tossup clues only two (2) scenes: the cattle of Helios in Book XII of the Odyssey, and Phaethons death in Book II of the Metamorphoses, both of which are very prominently Helios episodes and not Apollo episodes.

Here is the tossup, with word numbers marked in small italics, and negs with "Apollo" marked in bolded red exclamation points!.

0 Book II of the Metamorphoses opens with a description of10 this god’s palace, where he swears an oath to the20 River Styx. In Book XII of the Odyssey, this god incites Zeus30 to make animal skins crawl around and scream for six40 days and nights as punishment. This father of Lampetia makes50 a voyage [emphasize] every night floating across the northern streams60 of Oceanus. Both Tiresias and Circe warn Odysseus about this70 god’s sacred island of (*) Thrinacia, where (!) his men are (!) later80 thunderbolted for eating the holy cattle of this god. This90 (!) god (!) lends his golden goblet to Heracles to help him100 travel west for his tenth labour. In the Metamorphoses, this110 god fails to dissuade his mortal son from a fatal120 journey driving this god’s chariot across the sky. For 10130 points, name this father of Phaethon who is often identified140 with Apollo due to their roles as gods of the150 Sun.
ANSWER: Helios

[That DCC guy]

May I see the Endgame tossup, Phaedra Tossup, and the Abortion Tossup.

[cwasims]

Overall, I really enjoyed this tournament. A minor issue with tournament but a larger problem generally, though, is that I think tournaments really need to have fewer contemporary opera questions. I think in this tournament, of the one tossup and 3 bonuses I recall hearing that had sizeable opera content in the first twelve packets (Don Giovanni, German romantic/expressionist opera, Saariaho/Finnish music, and Glass), slightly over 1/4 of the overall opera content was on contemporary opera. I can only imagine the outrage if a tournament decided to make 1/4 of the classical distribution on contemporary classical music, and I think there would be very good reason for that outrage. Contemporary music, as "interesting" as it might seem, generally has nowhere near the importance for people who enjoy these art forms as the standard canon of works that people regularly perform and listen to. After a cursory search, there seem to have been about five productions (sometimes lasting several years) of Einstein in the Beach ever mounted since its premiere in the 70s. By way of comparison, there were 196 productions of La Traviata last year alone. Now, not to say we should only ever ask about the warhorses, but I think the way QB asks about opera right now is a massive distortion of what is actually listened to and performed in the real world, including many operas in the standard repertoire that are rarely asked about. There is very little room in the opera distribution and the editors should be making sure that they are using contemporary questions sparingly.

[vinteuil]

Overall, I really enjoyed this tournament. A minor issue with tournament but a larger problem generally, though, is that I think tournaments really need to have fewer contemporary opera questions. I think in this tournament, of the one tossup and 3 bonuses I recall hearing that had sizeable opera content in the first twelve packets (Don Giovanni, German romantic/expressionist opera, Saariaho/Finnish music, and Glass), slightly over 1/4 of the overall opera content was on contemporary opera. I can only imagine the outrage if a tournament decided to make 1/4 of the classical distribution on contemporary classical music, and I think there would be very good reason for that outrage. Contemporary music, as "interesting" as it might seem, generally has nowhere near the importance for people who enjoy these art forms as the standard canon of works that people regularly perform and listen to. After a cursory search, there seem to have been about five productions (sometimes lasting several years) of Einstein in the Beach ever mounted since its premiere in the 70s. By way of comparison, there were 196 productions of La Traviata last year alone. Now, not to say we should only ever ask about the warhorses, but I think the way QB asks about opera right now is a massive distortion of what is actually listened to and performed in the real world, including many operas in the standard repertoire that are rarely asked about. There is very little room in the opera distribution and the editors should be making sure that they are using contemporary questions sparingly.

I sympathize with this, partly because I think Glass is a talentless hack, but the number of people in general who listen to/watch recordings of Einstein on the Beach is probably greater than the number of attendees of even something as popular as La Traviata. (And this is definitely true of quizbowlers.) Live productions is an imperfect metric for an elite (read: expensive to attend! and not available most places) art form like opera.

[cwasims]

but the number of people in general who listen to/watch recordings of Einstein on the Beach is probably greater than the number of attendees of even something as popular as La Traviata.

Exactly what online recording are you referring to? The top hit for Einstein on the Beach on Youtube has 150,000 views, and the top hit for La Traviata has around 450,000. The top hit for Carmen has 8.5 million views. And just because QBers happen to like something (if they even like it at all - I'm not sure how easy it would be to come up with hard evidence on this) doesn't mean it's necessarily all that important, or that it justifies as many questions as it seems to get at higher difficulties.

[vinteuil]

but the number of people in general who listen to/watch recordings of Einstein on the Beach is probably greater than the number of attendees of even something as popular as La Traviata.

Exactly what online recording are you referring to? The top hit for Einstein on the Beach on Youtube has 150,000 views, and the top hit for La Traviata has around 450,000. The top hit for Carmen has 8.5 million views. And just because QBers happen to like something (if they even like it at all - I'm not sure how easy it would be to come up with hard evidence on this) doesn't mean it's necessarily all that important, or that it justifies as many questions as it seems to get at higher difficulties.

I compared listeners of Glass to attendees of Verdi explicitly to demonstrate that your reliance on numbers of live productions is not a good idea.

[cwasims]

but the number of people in general who listen to/watch recordings of Einstein on the Beach is probably greater than the number of attendees of even something as popular as La Traviata.

Exactly what online recording are you referring to? The top hit for Einstein on the Beach on Youtube has 150,000 views, and the top hit for La Traviata has around 450,000. The top hit for Carmen has 8.5 million views. And just because QBers happen to like something (if they even like it at all - I'm not sure how easy it would be to come up with hard evidence on this) doesn't mean it's necessarily all that important, or that it justifies as many questions as it seems to get at higher difficulties.

I compared listeners of Glass to attendees of Verdi explicitly to demonstrate that your reliance on numbers of live productions is not a good idea.

I mean, I made the comparison I did because I don't think your claim that Einstein on the Beach has a large number of listens/views stands up to scrutiny when compared with more canonical operas on online platforms. It's also worth noting that 150,000 views is an exceptionally low number for a work that comes up as a regular difficulty answerline - I would be surprised if the most-watched version of pretty much any other piece that is a regular difficulty answerline had much less than half a million views. (For reference, Peer Gynt has 2.9 million, and non-Fantasia Sorceror's Apprentice has 1 million).

[vinteuil]

but the number of people in general who listen to/watch recordings of Einstein on the Beach is probably greater than the number of attendees of even something as popular as La Traviata.

Exactly what online recording are you referring to? The top hit for Einstein on the Beach on Youtube has 150,000 views, and the top hit for La Traviata has around 450,000. The top hit for Carmen has 8.5 million views. And just because QBers happen to like something (if they even like it at all - I'm not sure how easy it would be to come up with hard evidence on this) doesn't mean it's necessarily all that important, or that it justifies as many questions as it seems to get at higher difficulties.

I compared listeners of Glass to attendees of Verdi explicitly to demonstrate that your reliance on numbers of live productions is not a good idea.

I mean, I made the comparison I did because I don't think your claim that Einstein on the Beach has a large number of listens/views stands up to scrutiny when compared with more canonical operas on online platforms. It's also worth noting that 150,000 views is an exceptionally low number for a work that comes up as a regular difficulty answerline - I would be surprised if the most-watched version of pretty much any other piece that is a regular difficulty answerline had much less than half a million views. (For reference, Peer Gynt has 2.9 million, and non-Fantasia Sorceror's Apprentice has 1 million).

There are two recordings on Spotify with about 500K listens for at least one track.

Again, I'm not saying it's ideal, but I think that you, centered in the traditional opera repertory, may have relatively limited insight into how other arts-inclined people engage with opera.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Errata: Chris Sims pointed out that I confused Benjamin Friedman (Harvard economist) and David Friedman (Milton' Friedman's son, also an economist) in the LM curve tossup. The clue is correct to identify Benjamin as the paper author, but not as Milton's son, and I shall fix that.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Going off of my previous post, I looked at the psychology bonuses in this tournament and they did a pretty bad job as a whole of testing and rewarding a variety of psych knowledge. The five bonuses were:

• DSM/The Myth of Mental Illness/Jacques Lacan (focused on psychiatry and clinical psych)
• gender dysphoria/clinical depression/Reimer (also focused on psychiatry)
• the self/symbolic interactionism/Hazel Markus (social psych, very hard bonus)
• effect size/Flynn effect/100 (statistics, based off of calculating IQ)
• electric shocks/Ewen Cameron/LSD (also psychiatry, very pop psych)

So we have three out of the five bonuses on a field (psychiatry) that is related to psychology but distinct, and which very few psych majors will have taken a course in. One of the other bonuses has a not-psych-specific statistics part, then asks about IQ, which uh is not quite a focus of academic psychology study nowadays. Three out of the five bonuses also have middle parts that are more likely to be gotten based off non-psych knowledge (Lacan, LSD, symbolic interactionism). Having read a pop psychology book or two and played a couple of regular difficulty tournaments would have gotten you more points at this tournament than a non-clinical psychology major.

Replying here to Ryan:

After some reflection I agree on the symbolic interactionism bonus. It definitely played out harder than intended, and that bonus seems pretty loose as written in general. I think I'll just replace that bonus with something "core" like personality or emotions. The Finals 2 bonus on shocks / Cameron / LSD will probably also be on the chopping block.

On the other hand, I'll happily defend the bonus on IQ statistics - applied statistics in social science is an important topic worth asking about, and IQ is something you could totally cover in a class even if it's not the subject of study anymore.

EDIT: I also don't think gender dysphoria is being encountered by most people in class - instead I'd suspect that people read about it through learning about important contemporary LGBTQ issues. I'm perfectly fine with rewarding them with points for doing so, regardless of whether this is something that a psych major is guaranteed to learn.

[heterodyne]

Will, Ryan's point was in the other thread precisely because it wasn't really a complaint about any of the *particular* bonuses, but rather about the choice to have all of them at once. Responding by pointing out that, taken separately, each one is a fine thing to ask about misses the idea that by asking about only this slice of psychology material you leave out a lot of different ways of approaching psychology.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Will, Ryan's point was in the other thread precisely because it wasn't really a complaint about any of the *particular* bonuses, but rather about the choice to have all of them at once. Responding by pointing out that, taken separately, each one is a fine thing to ask about misses the idea that by asking about only this slice of psychology material you leave out a lot of different ways of approaching psychology.

I don't think we're 100% at odds here - by replacing two of the less core things I'm trying to bring in more "core" material and address the problem that's been identified. I thought this was implicit, my apologies.

A few miscellaneous other changes:

- Added the title of The Greek Slave to the Hiram Powers part (I overestimated how much people would know about him)
- the Buckley / National Review / Firing Line bonus will be revised to be somewhat easier, likely by replacing the third part
- small revisions to the Haile Selassie tossup (axed the leadin, moved clues up and added an easier mid-late power clue)

[ryanrosenberg]

For the record, my main point was about the aggregate impact of the subdistribution of the psych bonuses, not the bonuses or the answerlines themselves. If, say, a tournament's 15/15 bio distribution had 9 ecology bonuses, that would be a problem regardless of the quality of the bonuses. As a general point, subject editors should think critically about distributing their answerlines within a topic and balancing among sub-fields and types of knowledge.

Since this is the specific question thread, I quite liked the effect size part, and applied statistics in social science more broadly. Hazel Markus seemed very hard. She's only come up once as a bonus answer, as a hard part at "stanford housewrite", and it looks like -- although I can't be sure -- that the only person who converted the SGI part on her was Stephen Liu.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

For the record, my main point was about the aggregate impact of the subdistribution of the psych bonuses, not the bonuses or the answerlines themselves. If, say, a tournament's 15/15 bio distribution had 9 ecology bonuses, that would be a problem regardless of the quality of the bonuses. As a general point, subject editors should think critically about distributing their answerlines within a topic and balancing among sub-fields and types of knowledge.

Since this is the specific question thread, I quite liked the effect size part, and applied statistics in social science more broadly. Hazel Markus seemed very hard. She's only come up once as a bonus answer, as a hard part at "stanford housewrite", and it looks like -- although I can't be sure -- that the only person who converted the SGI part on her was Stephen Liu.

As implied above, this criticism seems valid, and the (too hard) Markus bonus and one of the clinically focused bonuses will both be replaced with more "core" classroom stuff that was lacking.

[Jason Cheng]

Will, Ryan's point was in the other thread precisely because it wasn't really a complaint about any of the *particular* bonuses, but rather about the choice to have all of them at once. Responding by pointing out that, taken separately, each one is a fine thing to ask about misses the idea that by asking about only this slice of psychology material you leave out a lot of different ways of approaching psychology.

The point of replacing specific bonuses is to rectify a problem with “all the bonuses” in general—by cutting two of the five bonuses Ryan listed and replacing them with things that ask about “a lot of different ways of approaching psychology,” he’s adjusting 40% of the set, which seems to me like Will exactly hitting the idea

[Carlos Be]

This is incredibly minor, but the tossup on Kubla Khan refers to Borges' "The Dream of Coleridge" as a story, when it would probably be better described as an essay.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

This is incredibly minor, but the tossup on Kubla Khan refers to Borges' "The Dream of Coleridge" as a story, when it would probably be better described as an essay.

Thanks for this! Will fix this.

[Deepika Goes From Ranbir To Ranveer]

Package 8, Bonus 8, part 3 says that Donatello is a 13th century sculptor, which he is not.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Package 8, Bonus 8, part 3 says that Donatello is a 13th century sculptor, which he is not.

This has been fixed since

[34 + P.J. Dozier]

I meant to post this a while back and never got around to it, but the Dukas tossup says that the main melody played by the bassoons in The Sorcerer's Apprentice is in 3/8 time, when it is actually in 9/8 time.

[vinteuil]

I meant to post this a while back and never got around to it, but the Dukas tossup says that the main melody played by the bassoons in The Sorcerer's Apprentice is in 3/8 time, when it is actually in 9/8 time.

Nope:


(The opening is in 9/8 though.)

[34 + P.J. Dozier]

I meant to post this a while back and never got around to it, but the Dukas tossup says that the main melody played by the bassoons in The Sorcerer's Apprentice is in 3/8 time, when it is actually in 9/8 time.

Nope:


(The opening is in 9/8 though.)

Oh, I thought it was referring to the opening, since the melody is the same in both instances. My mistake.

[vinteuil]

Two music questions that illustrate a similar problem (one John pointed out in his 2014 guide):

Bach’s Fugue in B minor for organ is based on a theme by this composer.

[10] Short chants called antiphons were typically composed for morning offices or evening prayer services in the Catholic Church. Name either of those events.
ANSWER: lauds OR vespers
[10] This type of simple medieval polyphonic music builds on the Gregorian chant by doubling the number of melodic lines and performing them at parallel intervals.
ANSWER: organum

All three cases blur the line between particulars and generals:

1. "Bach's Fugue in B minor" implies a single piece, when there is in fact another organ piece that fits that description (BWV 544/ii); it would be better to say "a Bach Fugue in B minor for organ," or even better, to highlight an unusual facet of the piece by saying "A standalone Fugue in B minor for organ." Concision is good, but descriptions that point unambiguously and generously to their referents are better.
2. Antiphons, of course, were also written for the Mass, so this question is really about Office antiphons. That's a pretty minor nitpick though, since the actual question instructions make it clear that what's being asked for is two specific hours of the Divine Office.*
3. Finally, the last part is entirely about parallel organum, not organum in general. Again, this probably won't actively mislead anybody, but it could easily be confusing enough to cognitive-dissonance somebody out of a correct answer.

To zoom out, these problems look and probably are relatively small, but each of them makes the question more confusing and harder to think through ("oh, what they REALLY mean is..."). If they're present throughout a tossup (which happened—particularly in the early clues—many times in this set), it becomes much harder to buzz; if they're present in a large enough portion of a tournament (and especially in leadins and hard parts, already the most taxing parts of any set!), the set can become exhausting and frustrating to play.

*The real problem with this question is that it's drawn from an unsourced, untrue Wikipedia claim; antiphons were/are sung at every hour of the Office (just watch what happens when you ctrl+F "antiphon" in the "Office" chapter of David Hiley's Western Plainchant, pp.25–30). And don't say that "morning prayer" is specific to Lauds (prayer at dawn specifically, and one of like 4 morning prayer hours), or that "evening prayer" rules out Compline.

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Two music questions that illustrate a similar problem (one John pointed out in his 2014 guide):

*The real problem with this question is that it's drawn from an unsourced, untrue Wikipedia claim; antiphons were/are sung at every hour of the Office (just watch what happens when you ctrl+F "antiphon" in the "Office" chapter of David Hiley's Western Plainchant, pp.25–30). And don't say that "morning prayer" is specific to Lauds (prayer at dawn specifically, and one of like 4 morning prayer hours), or that "evening prayer" rules out Compline.

To respond to this accusation of Wikipedia ripping-off: yes, Wikipedia sure says that antiphons are typically written for "lauds or vespers" but a lot of discussion of antiphons that I've run into talks about them particularly in the context of these two specific offices, though obviously antiphons are used in other contexts as well. That said, this post makes a good point that the clues as written aren't particularly unique - it's probably just better to ask "name either of the morning/evening Greater Offices" or something like that.

Also, I should learn more Catholicism.

EDIT: factual correction

[A Dim-Witted Saboteur]

Although Wikipedia tells me that "Matins" later apparently came to refer to a different prayer service, in the time period being referenced it was generally accepted as an alternate name for Lauds, appearing in Chaucer and other authors as a synonym. Although you can make a case that I was wrong, I was somewhat peeved at not getting points on this.

[Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone]

Could I see the "America and China" and the Ionian revolt questions?

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Could I see the "America and China" and the Ionian revolt questions?

In the future, we'd request that people post specific reasons for seeing tossups:

12. Two answers required. David Lampton used a saying that [emphasize] originated in one of these two countries, “Same bed, different dreams,” to title his book about their relationship. The “reasonably enlightened” leaders of one of these two countries were compared favorably to the other’s leaders in a 2009 article by the author of The World Is Flat. In 2000, three reporters from one of these two countries were killed when the other of them accidentally (*) bombed an embassy in Belgrade. Drawing on a phrase from one of these countries, Thomas Friedman wrote that the other of them “Needs Its Own Dream.” In July 2018, one of these two countries targeted the other’s soybean exports with a 25-percent tax as part of an escalating trade war. For 10 points, name these two countries that have the largest volume of two-way trade in the world as the two largest national economies.
ANSWER: United States AND China [accept USA or United States of America in place of “US”; accept Zhongguo or PRC or People’s Republic of China in place of “China,” but do not accept “Republic of China”]
<Other/Misc Academic, WA>

16. Though none of its battles were at Thermopylae, this conflict included a clash in which Kurian defections enabled Artybius to win a victory; that Battle of Salamis took place during a phase of this war brought about by Onesilus in Cyprus. A message that encouraged an ally to start this conflict was written on a slave’s head, then concealed by the slave’s hair growing back. This conflict resulted in part from the rivalry between a tyrant and the archon Histiaeus (“hiss-tee-EYE-us”). Its first major action was the burning of (*) Sardis, the capital of the satrap Artaphernes (“ar-tuh-FER-neez”), who joined this conflict’s instigator in a failed power play to take Naxos. Aristagoras (“air-uh-STAG-or-us”) started this conflict, which ended with the sack of his city of Miletus. Athens antagonized the Persian empire by backing, for 10 points, what revolt against Darius I in western Anatolia?
ANSWER: Ionian Revolt [or Ionian Rebellion]
<Ancient History, EL>

[Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone]

Could I see the "America and China" and the Ionian revolt questions?

In the future, we'd request that people post specific reasons for seeing tossups:

Sorry - should have said I wanted to check if there were errors, which there are: the bombing of the Chinese embassy happened in May 1999, not 2000, which threw me off.

Second and much more minor, as I think the TU is a good idea, if perhaps a bit too hard, and I have only myself to blame for negging it - the city is Kourion in Greek, Curium in Latin - going halfway and saying "Kurian" is a bit confusing. Strictly, Histiaeus tattoos the slaves head, and is Histiaeus ever referred to as an archon - I'm pretty sure he's referred to as tyrant from his first appearance at the river Danube during the Scythian expedition?

[naan/steak-holding toll]

Could I see the "America and China" and the Ionian revolt questions?

In the future, we'd request that people post specific reasons for seeing tossups:

Sorry - should have said I wanted to check if there were errors, which there are: the bombing of the Chinese embassy happened in May 1999, not 2000, which threw me off.

Second and much more minor, as I think the TU is a good idea, if perhaps a bit too hard, and I have only myself to blame for negging it - the city is Kourion in Greek, Curium in Latin - going halfway and saying "Kurian" is a bit confusing. Strictly, Histiaeus tattoos the slaves head, and is Histiaeus ever referred to as an archon - I'm pretty sure he's referred to as tyrant from his first appearance at the river Danube during the Scythian expedition?

These are all good points and corresponding corrections have been implemented.

[Edmund]

17. A simple equation for modeling transport in these systems can be derived by applying a Laplace transform to Fick’s laws and choosing boundary conditions to represent semi-infinite linear diffusion. A common analytic setup uses three of these things, one of which is working, one of which is the counter, and one of which uses calomel as a standard reference. More energy is required to drive these systems than would normally be thermodynamically predicted when an (*) overpotential is present. Two dissimilar metals may form one of these systems, resulting in corrosion, when they are placed near each other in solution. A salt bridge usually connects the components of these systems, which can be measured using the Nernst equation. For 10 points, identify these cells that use chemical reactions to produce electrical energy.
ANSWER: voltaic cells [or galvanic cells or electrochemical cells or electrodes; prompt on partial answer; accept voltaic or galvanic after “cell” is read; prompt on battery or potential; anti-prompt on fuel cells by asking “can you be less specific?”]

Ah ok, it is in the answerline. It seems kind of weird to me to clue voltammetry and also accept electrochemical cells because electrodes are part of an electrochemical cell, but not the same thing.

Yeah, this clue does not work at all for _voltaic cells_ or _electrochemical cells_, though fortunately the alternate answer _electrode_s was in place so I didn't get negged for buzzing on "three". A three-electrode cell is one cell but has three electrodes, or three "electrode-electrolyte interfaces" which should also have been an acceptable answer. In general, analytical systems are not voltaic or galvanic cells because they consume energy rather than produce it. Equally, overpotential in a voltaic cell like a fuel cell reduces the extractible electrical work, rather than increasing the required driving energy. As someone who has worked in electrochemical theory for a long time, I found the first sentence nicely evocative, but it's ambiguous - it can apply to lots of diffusion-dominated chemical systems.

All the clues in this question are great content - they talk about all of the most important things in practical electrochemistry, both in analytical chemistry and energy conversion. But they don't fit together to make a tossup with a particular answer line, so this question should have been something else.

[Santa Claus]

The bonus on ordering the left and right recursive calls and the print statement in an in-order traversal really needs to take “print” in place of “current” or whatever it is that it wants right now; the question asks for pseudo-code but seems to want node order.

The bonus part on sequence alignment could probably use a note to accept multiple sequence alignment.

Could I see the tossup on keystone species? The second clue, which I recall mentioned limnic ecosystems or something, felt subomptimal since research on niches was also done there - that could just me missing some key discriminating phrase though.

Edit:
More things I thought of.

The bonus part on columnar distillation or whatever it was should probably prompt on distillation.

The bonus part on Buddha statues ought to take Buddha’s.

Could I see the tossup on sand bars? I did not enjoy it and negged at tombolos with “island”, because a tombolo is a spit that connects an island to the shore.

[naneekeralc]

Can I see the bonus on molecular orbitals/Woodward-Hoffman rules/sigmatropic rearrangement? I had a really hard time parsing the first part.

[celsius273]

Things I liked:

• The PCR and western blot questions (though I realize it unfairly advantages people who have lab experience)

• The bio and chem TUs were generally quite straightforward, i.e. easy to parse on the spot and I thought the answerlines were fine. It felt like there was a lot of orgo (not complaining) in the chemistry, though I may be mistaken

Things I noted down:

Round 1
- Bonus 12: recrystallization is mentioned in part 2 and is the answer to part 3. Caused the other team to miss it

Round 2
- TU 3: I found the ppm clue to be rather useless. To start, various sources will quote different ranges for typical chemical shifts. Additionally, the range of 2-5 (I know the question gave something different like 3.5-4) is where many functional groups appear on an H-NMR, and it’s difficult to figure out in real time which of the numbers you’ve memorized best matches with what was given in the question (b/c again, different sources will give different ranges). I'm pretty sure vinyl hydrogens, alpha to heteroatom (so ethers, non-primary amines, alkyl halides, alkoxy groups etc.), and even some alcohols/amines can fall in this range, and any one of those are acceptable functional groups to toss up. To give the clue credit, it helped me rule out aldehyde and carboxyl and other downfield groups, but that doesn't change the fact that a ppm range is not uniquely identifying for this question.

Round 4
- Bonus 3: Can “Rhea Silva” be added as an acceptable alternative? Additionally, in a race against time, I pulled out the latin pronunciation ("w" sound rather than "v" sound) and I think it would be nice if it could be added as an alternative pronunciation of the name.

Round 7
- Bonus 2: every MO described in the question is a pi molecular orbital, so I think pi orbital should get accepted or at least prompted

[naan/steak-holding toll]

- Bonus 3: Can “Rhea Silva” be added as an acceptable alternative? Additionally, in a race against time, I pulled out the latin pronunciation ("w" sound rather than "v" sound) and I think it would be nice if it could be added as an alternative pronunciation of the name.

Is there a source that refers to her as Rhea Silva? Also, that definitely can be added, though I find it bizarre that anyone might challenge someone who pronounces it that way

[kearnm7]

- Bonus 3: Can “Rhea Silva” be added as an acceptable alternative? Additionally, in a race against time, I pulled out the latin pronunciation ("w" sound rather than "v" sound) and I think it would be nice if it could be added as an alternative pronunciation of the name.

Is there a source that refers to her as Rhea Silva? Also, that definitely can be added, though I find it bizarre that anyone might challenge someone who pronounces it that way

Although I've always learned her as Rhea Silvia, The Oxford Companion to World Mythology under "Romulus and Remus" says "The famous twins of Roman mythology, Romulus and Remus, were born of the union of the god Mars and the mortal Rhea Silva." Her name is also definitely a reference to the Latin silva, meaning "wood/forest," so that might also have been the original form.

Could I see the tossup on "urns/vases" that discusses columbaria? Although in hindsight "urns" is definitely the preferable answer, I negged it on the second clue with "busts." I think this should potentially be accepted - see, for instance, the Met Article on "Roman Portrait Sculpture: Republican through Constantinian." It says the following:

Funerary altars and tomb structures were adorned with portrait reliefs of the deceased along with short inscriptions noting their family or patrons, and portrait busts accompanied cinerary urns that were deposited in the niches of large, communal tombs known as columbaria.

[celsius273]

To be fair, my answer had two discrepancies from the given answer line, both the lack of the "ia" at the end and the "w" sound so I think that's what gave my moderator pause (my answer was not actually ruled wrong during the match, I just had to explain the "w" and "v" thing). Regarding Silva vs Silvia, that is what I recall learning in high school, though that would have been 6 years ago at this point so perhaps I am recalling it wrong. FWIW, the textbook we used was Latin for Americans by Ullman.

EDIT:

After a quick google search, it appears that The Brooklyn Museum has her name down as Rhea Silva. (https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/eascfa/d ... rhea_silva)

(Also, I did enjoy this question despite my gripes about the answer line. It's always nice when my very limited Roman history knowledge can be used)

[naan/steak-holding toll]

I've made the requested changes to the Rhea Silvia part.

As for the urns question, I think I'll add a specific prompt on "busts" to ask "what is the bust placed alongside in a niche?" or find another clue. Here is the tossup as played:

12. A material culture named for these objects made sickle-shaped marks that are interpreted as numerals, was succeeded by the Halstatt (“HALL-shtott”) culture, and thrived in Central Europe until the mid-8th century BC. Romans placed these objects in niches inside of buildings whose name comes from the Latin word for “dove.” They’re not for holding wine or oil, but the elaborate Derveni krater was used as one of these objects. The use of lekythoi and (*) amphorae as cinerary (“SIN-er-AIR-ee”) examples of these objects declined as inhumation became more common. The mid-17th-century discovery of several of these objects in Norfolk inspired an essay by Sir Thomas Browne. These objects, which are common grave goods, are displayed in a columbarium. For 10 points, identify these vessels that hold funerary ashes.
ANSWER: urns [accept burial urns; prompt on vases or pottery or amphorae or krater or jars; accept Urnfield Culture or Hydriotaphia, Urn Burial] (The word for “dove” is columba, so columbarium means “dovecote.”)
<Archaeology, WA>

[Cody]

Is there a source that refers to her as Rhea Silva? Also, that definitely can be added, though I find it bizarre that anyone might challenge someone who pronounces it that way

I understand you've made these changes, but I want to push back against this viewpoint. Moderators can only interpret answers based on what is on the page combined with their personal experience. If a moderator has not come across, or doesn't remember in the moment, the Latin pronunciation of "v" or a pronunciation guide spelling this out (which, for example, I hadn't for many years), then it's eminently reasonable that they not accept this pronunciation. (Perhaps not only reasonable, but entirely correct, as (potentially) accepting one player's or one team's account of a correct pronunciation would unfairly advantage the team, whether or not they were right.)

It's very important for both players (so they get credit for correct answers) and moderators (so they can accurately accept correct answers) to include a pronunciation guide in answerlines that have pronunciations at variance with their phonetic pronunciation.

[Deepika Goes From Ranbir To Ranveer]

The bonus on ordering the left and right recursive calls and the print statement in an in-order traversal really needs to take “print” in place of “current” or whatever it is that it wants right now; the question asks for pseudo-code but seems to want node order.

This bonus part needs to be reworded to somehow indicate to moderators that pseudo-code automatically carries a big "description acceptable" tag attached. My answer of "process left child, process yourself, then process right child" was ruled incorrect, because the moderator wanted "current" in place of "yourself".

[naan/steak-holding toll]

I assume that not deciding whether something was “literature” based on its “merits” also led to the inclusion of Shel Silverstein and Black Beauty in this set.

Now that most of the mirrors are completed (apart from the possible Skype mirror and the New Trier mirror) I wanted to necro this discussion a bit. I am curious, what exactly is the objection to Black Beauty? The novel is undoubtedly highly influential on a lot of later novels in the same genre, and also played a part in raising animal welfare awareness in Victorian England. Little Women, which is unquestionably a popular novel that was mainly marketed at children and young adults, has been accepted as part of the collegiate quizbowl canon for a while. Other children's novels like the works of Sarah Fielding have come up before as well. What's wrong with this?