HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I for one find our ranking hilarious.
Sean M.
HTHS '14
Cornell University '18
UCSB '23
The opinions presented in this user's posts have not been approved by HTHS Quizbowl Team. Viewer discretion is advised. - Patrick LeBlanc, Captain
HTHS '14
Cornell University '18
UCSB '23
The opinions presented in this user's posts have not been approved by HTHS Quizbowl Team. Viewer discretion is advised. - Patrick LeBlanc, Captain
- Mewto55555
- Tidus
- Posts: 709
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:27 pm
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
You appear to have left out Ladue (like, obviously this is pre-season and you're spitballing on little information so it doesn't matter, but with all due respect to only-senior-on-Ladue B David, plugging either of returning A-team members Ben/Jialin into his missing spot here would have turned a T-21 team EASILY into a t-8 returning all their members).
Max
formerly of Ladue, Chicago
formerly of Ladue, Chicago
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Ladue's in a spot where I'd expect my method to fail to ID them as a top 25. YO SHADOW TOO BIG SON.Mewto55555 wrote:You appear to have left out Ladue (like, obviously this is pre-season and you're spitballing on little information so it doesn't matter, but with all due respect to only-senior-on-Ladue B David, plugging either of returning A-team members Ben/Jialin into his missing spot here would have turned a T-21 team EASILY into a t-8 returning all their members).
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Oh, and random movies I found on Netflix search for the purpose of what everyone really cares about: puns. And awful ones at that.
1. LASA: A MOTHER'S LOVE (2006)
2. ST. JOHN'S CARTER (2012)
3. HIGH TECH, LOW LIFE (2012)
4. DR. BELLARMINE AND MR. DOYLE (2000)
5. IMSA CYBORG, BUT THAT'S OK (2006)
6. FIREMAN SAM: HERO NEXT DORMAN (2009)
7. NORTH MONTE CARLO (2011)
8. LASA'S B-IRTHDAY SURPRISE (2003)
9. DUPONT MALUNDE (2001)
10. DUNBAR STARZ (2008)
11. EZELL-HARDINGLE, BARRY (2006)
12. TUCKER AND CARBONDALE VS. EVIL (2010)
13. CHATTAHOOCHEE MAMMA DRAMA (2008)
14. MENLOWRIDER: HISTORY OF HYDRAULICS (2008)
15. ARCADIA FIRE: MIROIR NOIR (2007)
16. WESTERN ALBERMARLE AND ME: THE PUPPY YEARS (2008)
17. BLUE MOUNTAIN STATE COLLEGE (2010)
18. TRAIN WITH BIG GAME: TORRY "PINES" HOLT (2006)
19. SUN RA: LIVE IN OAKLAND MILLS (2006)
20. WILMINGTON CHARTERHOUSE OF PARMA (1948)
21. UFC 95: SANCHEZ VS. ADLAI STEVENSON (2009)
22. 30 FOR 30: THE TWO ESCOBARS (2010)
23. HELEN OF TROY (1956)
24. PIKEVILLEGAS (2012)
25. HEARTBREAK OAK RIDGE (1986)
1. LASA: A MOTHER'S LOVE (2006)
2. ST. JOHN'S CARTER (2012)
3. HIGH TECH, LOW LIFE (2012)
4. DR. BELLARMINE AND MR. DOYLE (2000)
5. IMSA CYBORG, BUT THAT'S OK (2006)
6. FIREMAN SAM: HERO NEXT DORMAN (2009)
7. NORTH MONTE CARLO (2011)
8. LASA'S B-IRTHDAY SURPRISE (2003)
9. DUPONT MALUNDE (2001)
10. DUNBAR STARZ (2008)
11. EZELL-HARDINGLE, BARRY (2006)
12. TUCKER AND CARBONDALE VS. EVIL (2010)
13. CHATTAHOOCHEE MAMMA DRAMA (2008)
14. MENLOWRIDER: HISTORY OF HYDRAULICS (2008)
15. ARCADIA FIRE: MIROIR NOIR (2007)
16. WESTERN ALBERMARLE AND ME: THE PUPPY YEARS (2008)
17. BLUE MOUNTAIN STATE COLLEGE (2010)
18. TRAIN WITH BIG GAME: TORRY "PINES" HOLT (2006)
19. SUN RA: LIVE IN OAKLAND MILLS (2006)
20. WILMINGTON CHARTERHOUSE OF PARMA (1948)
21. UFC 95: SANCHEZ VS. ADLAI STEVENSON (2009)
22. 30 FOR 30: THE TWO ESCOBARS (2010)
23. HELEN OF TROY (1956)
24. PIKEVILLEGAS (2012)
25. HEARTBREAK OAK RIDGE (1986)
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- pajaro bobo
- Wakka
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:12 pm
- Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
As much as I am proud to see Chattahoochee at 13 and as much as I believe that they're a top 25 team for sure next year, I'm a little baffled as to how our choke-tastic HSNCT performance points to us being ranked that high.
Yeah I know, it's just a preseason ranking and you've already admitted the likely presence of inaccuracies, but I'd really like to know what made you rate Hooch so well.
Yeah I know, it's just a preseason ranking and you've already admitted the likely presence of inaccuracies, but I'd really like to know what made you rate Hooch so well.
Alex Liu
Georgia Tech '1X
Chattahoochee '13
Georgia Tech '1X
Chattahoochee '13
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I find it quite ironic that LADUUUUUUUUE?! of all teams is complaining about their ranking.Mewto55555 wrote:You appear to have left out Ladue (like, obviously this is pre-season and you're spitballing on little information so it doesn't matter, but with all due respect to only-senior-on-Ladue B David, plugging either of returning A-team members Ben/Jialin into his missing spot here would have turned a T-21 team EASILY into a t-8 returning all their members).
Morgan Venkus
-
- Tidus
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:35 pm
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Uh, we don't have a ranking.MorganV wrote:I find it quite ironic that LADUUUUUUUUE?! of all teams is complaining about their ranking.Mewto55555 wrote:You appear to have left out Ladue (like, obviously this is pre-season and you're spitballing on little information so it doesn't matter, but with all due respect to only-senior-on-Ladue B David, plugging either of returning A-team members Ben/Jialin into his missing spot here would have turned a T-21 team EASILY into a t-8 returning all their members).
I eagerly await the first tournament results to see how much this holds up.
Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:my method
Ben Zhang
Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell '23
Columbia University '18
Ladue Horton Watkins HS '14
Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell '23
Columbia University '18
Ladue Horton Watkins HS '14
-
- Auron
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:08 am
- Location: Kentucky
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Three Kentucky teams in the top 25?!Fred Ranks Things wrote:
9. DuPont Manual (KY)
10. Dunbar (KY)
24. Pikeville (KY)
Nicholas C
KQBA member
KQBA member
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
It mostly consists of me bribing Fred Morlan.Christ, I Know wrote:
Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.
Corry Wang
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
It's just PPB from HSNCT pro-rated by returning players' individual PPG, with performances from NSC (determined in the same manner) incorporated by comparison against performances there as appropriate and necessary.Christ, I Know wrote:Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.
Edit: I'm not sure if I specified this elsewhere on the site, but I feel like I have. It's not exactly super-secret.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Sniper, No Sniping!
- Tidus
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:25 pm
- Location: Pickerington, OH
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:It's just PPB from HSNCT pro-rated by returning players...Christ, I Know wrote:Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.
Fisher Catholic returns everyone from a squad that had a higher HSNCT ppb then Carbondale, Menlo, State College, and Oak Ridge, and who also beat two teams you had in your top 25 for a while (Macomb and St. Joe's) while in Atlanta.
Thomas Moore
Lancaster Fisher Catholic HS c/o 2014
Ohio Wesleyan University c/o 2018
Lancaster Fisher Catholic HS c/o 2014
Ohio Wesleyan University c/o 2018
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
For some reason I had you guys losing Brandon. I'll go back and correct it later today. (It's the PPB that I care about, for the record).Mr. Scogan wrote:Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:It's just PPB from HSNCT pro-rated by returning players...Christ, I Know wrote:Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.
Fisher Catholic returns everyone from a squad that had a higher HSNCT ppb then Carbondale, Menlo, State College, and Oak Ridge, and who also beat two teams you had in your top 25 for a while (Macomb and St. Joe's) while in Atlanta.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
-
- Rikku
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:23 am
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I don't know how to feel about these rankings. On one hand, it's a big step up from last year, where the Arcadia A I was on didn't get a pre-season ranking. On the other hand, Arcade Fire.
Anyway, I'm no expert our Northern counterparts, but I wouldn't have expected "Escobar" to rank so much lower than Menlo, given that Escobar returns a lot of decent players as far as I know, and they have a strong W-L track record against Menlo.
Anyway, I'm no expert our Northern counterparts, but I wouldn't have expected "Escobar" to rank so much lower than Menlo, given that Escobar returns a lot of decent players as far as I know, and they have a strong W-L track record against Menlo.
Jason Cheng
Arcadia High School 2013
UCSD 2017
Arcadia High School 2013
UCSD 2017
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I'm inclined to agree. I'm pretty sure that Escobar will return 2/4 of their HSNCT team, as well as Jonathan Lam (who didn't attend HSNCT, but scared the hell out of us the one time we played them).DJCocoPuffs wrote:I don't know how to feel about these rankings. On one hand, it's a big step up from last year, where the Arcadia A I was on didn't get a pre-season ranking. On the other hand, Arcade Fire.
Anyway, I'm no expert our Northern counterparts, but I wouldn't have expected "Escobar" to rank so much lower than Menlo, given that Escobar returns a lot of decent players as far as I know, and they have a strong W-L track record against Menlo.
Corry Wang
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
Arcadia High School 2013
Amherst College 2017
NAQT Writer and Subject Editor
- Adventure Temple Trail
- Auron
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:52 pm
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
It's pretty inaccurate to assume that a team will lose a majority of its bonus points from one year to the next upon losing a player/players who get(s) the majority of the tossups for the team. At the really elite level, many players on the same individual team will all know the answers to the easy and middle parts of bonuses, so the hit to points per bonus will be pretty low. And that doesn't factor in the fact that many elite teams have players that overlap knowledge on tossups, too, so the remaining players can pick up a lot of what they've lost by buzzing one clue or two behind their top scorer on those same questions. (examples: State College from 2009 to 2010, GDS from 2009 to 2010, East Chapel Hill from 2012 to 2013, Loyola from 2012 to 2013). By design, this formula is definitely going to severely underrate teams like Ladue and Maggie Walker that return an excellent second-scorer and many solid B-teamers.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:It's just PPB from HSNCT pro-rated by returning players' individual PPG, with performances from NSC (determined in the same manner) incorporated by comparison against performances there as appropriate and necessary.Christ, I Know wrote:Please tell us more about this super secret preseason ranking method.
Matt Jackson
University of Chicago '24
Yale '14, Georgetown Day School '10
member emeritus, ACF
University of Chicago '24
Yale '14, Georgetown Day School '10
member emeritus, ACF
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
That's correct. The reason for that is that, presently, there's no way to adjust for those problems if you're stuck with the current stats that we produce. Not that SQBS is better, but look at this stat report for Ladue from NAQT. From this information, it's impossible to account for shadow effects. If you try prorating out the team's PPB by returning powers rather than just individual scoring, in case that was the key difference, it wouldn't work either; Ladue's returning PPB would actually be lower using only powers.RyuAqua wrote:At the really elite level, many players on the same individual team will all know the answers to the easy and middle parts of bonuses, so the hit to points per bonus will be pretty low. And that doesn't factor in the fact that many elite teams have players that overlap knowledge on tossups, too, so the remaining players can pick up a lot of what they've lost by buzzing one clue or two behind their top scorer on those same questions. (examples: State College from 2009 to 2010, GDS from 2009 to 2010, East Chapel Hill from 2012 to 2013, Loyola from 2012 to 2013). By design, this formula is definitely going to severely underrate teams like Ladue and Maggie Walker that return an excellent second-scorer and many solid B-teamers.
Comparing the performance of the best returning player doesn't make sense when comparing with teams like St. John's that returns all of their scoring.
Better data like buzz points, allowing what is essentially a retroactive tournament of Goldfish HSNCT to occur, would be useful, but you still would have the problem in Ladue's case that Max played those questions. You can't definitively tell how good a roster is unless that roster plays together.
I suppose you could just say, "well, we all know that Ben from Ladue's really good, so we should subjectively guess where we think they are nationally." But part of why I've invested the time in this project is to try to rank teams objectively and avoid what happens historically in quiz bowl (and other competitive activities), a focus on traditional powers at the expense of newer programs that also perform well.
Honestly, like the post-nationals rankings, the preseason rankings aren't something I like doing as much as the regular season. It wouldn't break my heart if I didn't do them at all, but I feel like they're expected in some way, and it's kind of fun to see if I can come up with a system that works with current limitations.
It is fortunate that by November or December, if not earlier in the season, these problems won't matter. This blind spot doesn't exist once I have actual data that represents the performances of these teams with their 2013-2014 rosters.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I actually just went back and looked at the last season where I put together a full preseason top 25 (2011-2012) and compared it with my pre-nationals rankings. I did tinker with the formula this time around, so it's no guarantee of accuracy this year, .
I don't really consider duPont Manual a "miss" that year; picking out a team as really good and "only" having them be 29th in the country is not what I would think is a failure. The Mission San Jose situation was out of my control. USN produced one stat line, which isn't doing anyone any favors.
So this leaves two teams in the last five of the rankings as ones I was way off of: St. Paul Central and Arcadia. I don't know of any excuses to be made here; both Central and Arcadia only played three tournaments that produced usable PPB, but Centennial, Dunbar and LASA A only played four, and unless that's the secret magic number of tournaments played that lets you know if a team's good, that excuse doesn't hold water. St. Paul Central finished tied for 49th at HSNCT and Arcadia finished tied for 33rd (neither played at NSC), both performances that were better than their pre-nationals ranking and closer to their pre-season ranking.
Code: Select all
Hunter 1 -> 2
Bellarmine 2 -> 1
Centennial 3 -> 3
Auburn 4 -> 5
St. Anselm's 5 -> 11
LASA 6 -> 19
duPont Manual 7 -> 29
Dunbar 8 -> 18
GDS 9 -> 15
IMSA 10 -> 4
University School of Nashville 11 -> 58 (produced exactly one stat line)
Dorman 12 -> 7
Carbondale 13 -> 14
Walt Whitman 14 -> 13
Loyola 15 -> 9
Ladue 16 -> 8
Seven Lakes 17 -> 6
Cistercian 18 -> 17
Mission San Jose 19 -> UR (I don't think I had results for a "Mission San Jose" team all year)
Thomas Jefferson 20 -> 12
Hunter B 21 -> 30
Richard Montgomery 22 -> 23
St. Paul Central 23 -> 92
Arcadia 24 -> 55
Olmsted Falls 25 -> 26
So this leaves two teams in the last five of the rankings as ones I was way off of: St. Paul Central and Arcadia. I don't know of any excuses to be made here; both Central and Arcadia only played three tournaments that produced usable PPB, but Centennial, Dunbar and LASA A only played four, and unless that's the secret magic number of tournaments played that lets you know if a team's good, that excuse doesn't hold water. St. Paul Central finished tied for 49th at HSNCT and Arcadia finished tied for 33rd (neither played at NSC), both performances that were better than their pre-nationals ranking and closer to their pre-season ranking.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
MSJ played as "Escobar" all of last year. You'll probably find many more stat lines for Escobar.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:The Mission San Jose situation was out of my control. USN produced one stat line, which isn't doing anyone any favors.
Tanay
ex-Berkeley, ex-Bellarmine
ex-Berkeley, ex-Bellarmine
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Yeah, at the time it wasn't clear if that was okay or not. I don't deal with undercover teams.Tanay wrote:MSJ played as "Escobar" all of last year. You'll probably find many more stat lines for Escobar.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:The Mission San Jose situation was out of my control. USN produced one stat line, which isn't doing anyone any favors.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
- Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
- Posts: 5647
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I don't understand why you can't exercise more editorial discretion on the rankings though. If you're going to bother to have a pre-season ranking I would think you would at least want to be able to be satisfied that they really represent a possible top 25, rather than excluding an obviously top-notch team just because they don't have the right kind of data for you to predict their performance. There's nothing wrong with going in and sticking a team or two in the mix just because you think they'll do better than the stats say, right?
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
My concern with doing that would be complaints about favoritism.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Matt Weiner
- Sin
- Posts: 8148
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
- Location: Richmond, VA
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Any other people who want to produce rankings on their own criteria are welcome to post them on this board or wherever.
Matt Weiner
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Actually, if other, knowledgeable people wanted to post a top 25, we could make a "BCS" ranking.
>___>
>___>
Mike Hundley
PACE Member
Virginia Tech
PACE Member
Virginia Tech
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
At least in the case of St. Paul Central although the preseason rank of 23rd was way too high it wasn't as erroneous as suggested by the pre-nationals ranking which was based off three tournaments: at one we were a two-man team for almost half of the tournament, at another we were a two-man team with the second and third scorers missing and at the third tournament the top scorer and the third scorer were missing.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:So this leaves two teams in the last five of the rankings as ones I was way off of: St. Paul Central and Arcadia. I don't know of any excuses to be made here; both Central and Arcadia only played three tournaments that produced usable PPB, but Centennial, Dunbar and LASA A only played four, and unless that's the secret magic number of tournaments played that lets you know if a team's good, that excuse doesn't hold water. St. Paul Central finished tied for 49th at HSNCT and Arcadia finished tied for 33rd (neither played at NSC), both performances that were better than their pre-nationals ranking and closer to their pre-season ranking.
EDIT: clarity
Max Timmons
St. Paul Central High School 2012
MIT 2016
St. Paul Central High School 2012
MIT 2016
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Lawrence Simon
- Lulu
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:42 pm
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I am actually a little surprised that I don't see Cave Spring up there, also Walter Johnson, but then again I don't compute statistics I just obsess when they're posted.
Lawrence Simon
Quince Orchard Class of '15
University of Virginia Class of '19
Quince Orchard Class of '15
University of Virginia Class of '19
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
The first update to the rankings will likely come around the weekend of October 19th.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Unless the account gets suspended because I try to use Twitter for its apparent purpose, which is Tweeting at people. This is apparently the first step of many in which I lose touch with technology. If anybody needs me, I'll be playing N64.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Tweeting, dude.
Edit: seriously, if anyone has tips on tweeting to schools that don't follow me because they don't know I exist in a manner that will keep me out of spending hard time in Twitter Penitentiary, let me know. I don't feel like digging through SEO nonsense blogs.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
And if someone wants to contribute a background image that isn't something that I made in 3 seconds with Paint to amuse myself, get in touch with me.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Mewto55555
- Tidus
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Maybe a picture of people playing quizbowl or something?Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:And if someone wants to contribute a background image that isn't something that I made in 3 seconds with Paint to amuse myself, get in touch with me.
Max
formerly of Ladue, Chicago
formerly of Ladue, Chicago
- ryanrosenberg
- Auron
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16
NYU '26 (ideally)
ACF
North Carolina '16
NYU '26 (ideally)
ACF
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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- Wakka
- Posts: 161
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I'm just wondering how Mountain Lakes A got ranked when they were beaten by MAST by 400 points at PHSAT and then MAST was beaten by us (Wilmignton Charter B) by 85 points...additionally I couldn't help but notice that Torrey Pines was put down twice...
Mohan Malhotra
The Independence School '12
Charter School of Wilmington '16
New York University '20
Wilmington, DE/New York City, NY
The Independence School '12
Charter School of Wilmington '16
New York University '20
Wilmington, DE/New York City, NY
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I think Mountain Lakes' performance at FAcT was factored in, that's all.Chunky Sean wrote:I'm just wondering how Mountain Lakes A got ranked when they were beaten by MAST by 400 points at PHSAT and then MAST was beaten by us (Wilmignton Charter B) by 85 points...additionally I couldn't help but notice that Torrey Pines was put down twice...
Shravan Balaji
Academic Team Captain
East Brunswick High School '15
University of Pennsylvania '19
NHBB Mid-Atlantic Regional Coordinator
Academic Team Captain
East Brunswick High School '15
University of Pennsylvania '19
NHBB Mid-Atlantic Regional Coordinator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Torrey Pines issue is fixed.Chunky Sean wrote:I'm just wondering how Mountain Lakes A got ranked when they were beaten by MAST by 400 points at PHSAT and then MAST was beaten by us (Wilmignton Charter B) by 85 points...additionally I couldn't help but notice that Torrey Pines was put down twice...
I don't care about win/loss; feel free to refer to previous discussions of my theory.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Regarding PHSAT: NAQT does a weird thing with the stats where the ppb comes out bad on their website. If that's what you used, the stats on the database are more accurate.
edit: tone
edit: tone
Last edited by samus149 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sean M.
HTHS '14
Cornell University '18
UCSB '23
The opinions presented in this user's posts have not been approved by HTHS Quizbowl Team. Viewer discretion is advised. - Patrick LeBlanc, Captain
HTHS '14
Cornell University '18
UCSB '23
The opinions presented in this user's posts have not been approved by HTHS Quizbowl Team. Viewer discretion is advised. - Patrick LeBlanc, Captain
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- Wakka
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Hmmmm...I see. Well, that explains it... #A-setLoveEBAcademicTeam wrote:I think Mountain Lakes' performance at FAcT was factored in, that's all.Chunky Sean wrote:I'm just wondering how Mountain Lakes A got ranked when they were beaten by MAST by 400 points at PHSAT and then MAST was beaten by us (Wilmignton Charter B) by 85 points...additionally I couldn't help but notice that Torrey Pines was put down twice...
Mohan Malhotra
The Independence School '12
Charter School of Wilmington '16
New York University '20
Wilmington, DE/New York City, NY
The Independence School '12
Charter School of Wilmington '16
New York University '20
Wilmington, DE/New York City, NY
- Important Bird Area
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
This is a known bug on naqt.com (games without individual stats are lumped in with "bonus conversion"). We will at some point fix this, but it might not be soon.samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Which teams would be affected by this?samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
When should I expect this problem to appear so I don't lose my mind by May?bt_green_warbler wrote:This is a known bug on naqt.com (games without individual stats are lumped in with "bonus conversion"). We will at some point fix this, but it might not be soon.samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
- Important Bird Area
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Just DCC/Charter A (you can see here that the final has no individual stats recorded).Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Which teams would be affected by this?samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I mean in the more general sense: what kind of tournaments would be affected? What cases? Other statements ending in question marks?bt_green_warbler wrote:Just DCC/Charter A (you can see here that the final has no individual stats recorded).Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Which teams would be affected by this?samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Tournaments in which some games have detailed stats available but some do not.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I mean in the more general sense: what kind of tournaments would be affected? What cases? Other statements ending in question marks?bt_green_warbler wrote:Just DCC/Charter A (you can see here that the final has no individual stats recorded).Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Which teams would be affected by this?samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I just sent you some details about this.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:When should I expect this problem to appear so I don't lose my mind by May?bt_green_warbler wrote:This is a known bug on naqt.com (games without individual stats are lumped in with "bonus conversion"). We will at some point fix this, but it might not be soon.samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
VP for Communication and history subject editor, NAQT
Editor emeritus, ACF
"I wish to make some kind of joke about Jeff's love of birds, but I always fear he'll turn them on me Hitchcock-style." -Fred
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- Lulu
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Thanks for the rankings, Fred.
Patrick LeBlanc
High Technology High School '10-'14
Captain '13-'14
High Technology High School '10-'14
Captain '13-'14
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I know Tippecanoe in Ohio's A-set tournament has always had skewed bonus numbers due to the "no individual stats" in the playoff stage.Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I mean in the more general sense: what kind of tournaments would be affected? What cases? Other statements ending in question marks?bt_green_warbler wrote:Just DCC/Charter A (you can see here that the final has no individual stats recorded).Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Which teams would be affected by this?samus149 wrote:If Charter A and DCC A are higher than us due to PHSAT stats, it's because they got an extra 1.5 PPB or so on the NAQT website (NAQT messed up the data input for the final round). The entry on the database is more accurate, though not combined.
Thomas Moore
Lancaster Fisher Catholic HS c/o 2014
Ohio Wesleyan University c/o 2018
Lancaster Fisher Catholic HS c/o 2014
Ohio Wesleyan University c/o 2018
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
I apparently lost my mind well before May, because middle schools are ranked too.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle
Thank you for letting me know about this issue. I've updated the rankings to reflect this corrected information.samus149 wrote:Regarding PHSAT: NAQT does a weird thing with the stats where the ppb comes out bad on their website. If that's what you used, the stats on the database are more accurate.
edit: tone
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator