Masonic

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

With 300 schools and exemplary questions, I figure that the Masonic Tournament deserves its own thread. Official results can be found here.

I wrote the math, science, and fine arts. Donald wrote the lit, social studies, and miscellaneous. I very lightly edited Donald's questions, and Jonah and Egan provided feedback on many questions. All of the questions, including Sectionals, will be posted after State in two weeks. I am going to be somewhat vague when talking about questions and the distribution until then.

The tiebreaker issue has been fixed, so the match now goes to the first team that answers a tossup in overtime. The distribution is similar to what it was last year but better.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

Some rule changes were sent out earlier this week to State readers and Sectional hosts.

Teams can now confer as the bonus is being read. Answers given as the bonus is being read are simply ignored. The blurt rule is gone.
User avatar
thrillhouse
Lulu
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:10 pm
Location: Geographical Oddity - Two weeks from everywhere

Re: Masonic

Post by thrillhouse »

Results from the Bloomington AA Sectional

1st: Bloomington
2nd: Peoria Richwoods
3rd: University High School (Normal)
4th: Washington
Tim Coughlan
Scholastic Bowl Coach, Bloomington High School
User avatar
Dominator
Tidus
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by Dominator »

Results from Metea Valley AA Sectional:

(1) IMSA
(2) Metea Valley
(3) Wheaton North
(4) Wheaton-Warrenville South

I don't know how the other matches went, but in the finals, IMSA was behind MVHS going into the second teamwork section, but ended up winning in a too-exciting finish.

I felt that the questions were much better suited to Sectionals this year, being more accessible and with generally easier clues. Bonuses were remarkably consistent among pairs (like, if packet studying got you 30 in your bonus, it was the same for your opponent, but if you got a hard hard part, so did they). There were a number of times I couldn't figure out what a question was going for, but luckily my team figured those things out even when I didn't.
Dr. Noah Prince

Normal Community High School (2002)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (2004, 2007, 2008)

Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy - Scholastic Bowl coach (2009-2014), assistant coach (2014-2015), well wisher (2015-2016)
guy in San Diego (2016-present)
President of Qblitz (2018-present)

Image
User avatar
4nay
Lulu
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:02 pm
Location: Plainfield, IL
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by 4nay »

On the note of questions:

Call me crazy but it felt like bonuses kept alternating between high and low difficulty. Consistency was a problem in our early matches. Thanks to the Masonic bonus setup, there were times where it seemed like teams either got incredibly lucky or got the short end of the stick in terms of the bonus questions they had to answer. Other teams at our sectional also commented on how some of the questions seemed a bit vague in terms of what was being asked for, but it didn't seem like a major problem when PNHS was playing. Other than that, the quality of the tossups was solid -- great clues and consistent difficulty throughout.
Last edited by 4nay on Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anay Katyal
Plainfield North High School '14
Michigan '18
shrey96
Lulu
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:32 am
Location: New York, New York

Re: Masonic

Post by shrey96 »

On the topic of other matches at the Metea sectional, the 3rd place match was decided in an exciting fashion as well, with Wheaton North defeating Wheaton-Warrenville South on the tiebreaker.

Other than that, I'd like to thank Mr. Reinstein and Mr. Taylor for some great questions today.
Shreyas Vissapragada
Columbia University '17
Metea Valley High School '13
Colby Burnett
Lulu
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:02 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Masonic

Post by Colby Burnett »

Fenwick Sectional

1. Latin
2. Glenbard East
3. Hinsdale Central
4. St. Ignatius
It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man. ~Jack Handey

Fenwick High School (player) 1997-2001
Northwestern 2001-2005
Fenwick High School (Coach) 2011 - 2017
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

Warrensburg Latham sectional:

1) W-L
2) Blue Ridge
3) Decatur LSA
4) Clinton

Coincidentally, W-L and LSA both avenged prelim losses.
No Electricity Required
Wakka
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: West-Central Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by No Electricity Required »

Moline's Sectional was:

1. Macomb
2. Dunlap
3. Moline
4. Princeton

The questions were good.
tristan willey
formerly: macomb, uiuc
writer: naqt
he/him or they/them
User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by Emil Nolde »

Salem Sectional

1. Carbondale
2. Central HS (Breese)
3. Effingham
4. Salem

Questions were good enough so that fun was had.
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.
User avatar
TylerV
Wakka
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:58 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by TylerV »

Belvidere North Sectional

1. Auburn
2. Belvidere North
3. Stillman Valley
4. Streator

Questions were good, the only complaint I heard from my teammates was a 3rd part of a bonus asking for three answers.
Tyler Vaughan
UW-Platteville, Rock Valley, UIUC 2014-2017
Housecarl Shield Wall
Kimahri
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:44 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by Housecarl Shield Wall »

thrillhouse wrote:Results from the Bloomington AA Sectional

1st: Bloomington
2nd: Peoria Richwoods
3rd: University High School (Normal)
4th: Washington
This Masonic Sectional was quite enjoyable. A power outage during the fifth round was inconvenient, but failed to stop play. It was quite an experience, as I have never played a tournament game without a functioning buzzer set before. I felt that the questions were a bit subpar, to be honest. The difficulty seemed a bit inconsistent and I recall one question being outright factually incorrect. Nevertheless, it was run well and I am glad to have won it for the second consecutive year.
Spencer Tracy
Bloomington High School (Illinois), Class of 2015
garciaja
Lulu
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:42 pm
Location: Champaign

Re: Masonic

Post by garciaja »

From the Orient of Eastern Illinois:

1. Centennial (Champaign)
2. Mahomet Seymour
3. Central (Champaign)
4. Monticello
James Garcia
Champaign Centennial High School Coach
Player for Springfield Southeast '04
User avatar
mhasquin
Lulu
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Piasa, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by mhasquin »

Results at Site 14 Southwestern H.S. at Piasa (Class A)

1st - Southwestern
2nd - Carrollton
3rd - Wesclin
4th - Gillespie
Last edited by mhasquin on Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Matt Hasquin
Scholastic Bowl Coach - Southwestern High School - Piasa, Illinois
IHSSBCA Chair
User avatar
Cardinalis cardinalis
Kimahri
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by Cardinalis cardinalis »

Ninja'd regarding results my bad.


Had fun playing on this very well written set. The Masonic format kept games a lot more interesting than they would have otherwise been (this worked for and against us), and our particular sectional ran fairly smoothly. Overall, I was very pleased.
Derek VanBriesen
Stillman Valley High School '13
mrgsmath
Wakka
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by mrgsmath »

PORTA Sectional #9
1 - Riverton
2 - Williamsville
3 - Athens
4 - Pawnee

Basically was uneventful and ran on time, no complaints from the teams.

edit for spelling
Mark Grant
Coach - PORTA H.S.
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got ."
User avatar
tintinnabulation
Wakka
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:04 am

Re: Masonic

Post by tintinnabulation »

St. Bede (Peru) sectional:
1. Peoria Christian
2. Eureka
3. Peoria Heights
4. St. Bede

The questions were great--very accessible, but as mentioned upthread, I think there was one factual inaccuracy. Still, kudos to Donald and Mr. Reinstein.
Brittany Trang
Ohio State
Northwestern
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

Please email me any factual inaccuracies you remember or post about them so I can fix them before posting the set. I already emailed Spencer about the inaccuracy he noticed, which came on the Euro history question that ended Round 4. He was right, and I apologize.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
Dominator
Tidus
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:16 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by Dominator »

I'm not sure what the factual inaccuracy is referred to upthread, but I very well could have missed or forgotten it. There were definitely things that should have been cleaned up, but as someone with firsthand experience trying to produce good question sets, I think this set did a great job doing what it needed to do (accuratey differentiate teams of a wide variety of skill levels). I'll be happy to give Mr. Reinstein specific constructive feedback once (1) the set is cleared and posted, and (2) IMSA's season is over.
Dr. Noah Prince

Normal Community High School (2002)
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (2004, 2007, 2008)

Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy - Scholastic Bowl coach (2009-2014), assistant coach (2014-2015), well wisher (2015-2016)
guy in San Diego (2016-present)
President of Qblitz (2018-present)

Image
User avatar
mhasquin
Lulu
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Piasa, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by mhasquin »

Results are up on the Masonic Site.
http://www.masonicbowl.org/
Matt Hasquin
Scholastic Bowl Coach - Southwestern High School - Piasa, Illinois
IHSSBCA Chair
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

Now that results are posted, feel free to discuss individual questions. I realize that doing so is more difficult without access to the questions, but so it goes.

The errors I am aware of are:
A Henry VIII tossup said he was the father of Mary, Queen of Scots rather than Queen Mary I.
A bonus part asking which people Satan was consuming according to Dante said Crassus instead of Cassius for one of the names.
A GB Shaw tossup said Heartbreak Hotel instead of Heartbreak House.

Feel free to discuss any aspect of any question or questions.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
CometsCoach
Lulu
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: Clive, IA

Re: Masonic

Post by CometsCoach »

Since I am returning to the boards after self-imposed exile...

Results from Site 29 at Greenville (Class AA):
1. Highland
2. Greenville
3. O'Fallon
4. Columbia

Highland and O'Fallon won their pools outright. Columbia won second in their pool, and Greenville emerged as the last qualifier from a 3-way tie with Althoff and Alton HS.

Highland won their semifinal against Columbia, while Greenville overcame an early deficit to defeat O'Fallon. Highland and Greenville played a very close championship match until the last teamwork section, when Highland pulled away and sealed the title in the last toss-up section.

Congrats to all who competed, and to those who won today, I'll see you in Springfield in 2 weeks.

Additionally, a special thanks to the Grand Lodge of Illinois for supporting students all over the state, and to Reinstein and Taylor for an entertaining sectional question set.
Jay Winter
Iowa Quiz Bowl League Founder & CEO
Mathematics Teacher, Waukee (IA) High School
Formerly Greenville (IL) High School Head Scholastic Bowl Coach 2007-2014 and Team Illinois 2012-2014
PACE Member, 2020-Present
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

I'll put my hand up, all of the stated inaccuracies were on my end. I did my best to playtest the questions after they were written, but clearly they were not vetted enough.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

Housecarl Shield Wall wrote:I felt that the questions were a bit subpar, to be honest.
Please expound on this.
User avatar
MorganV
Mafiarator
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:12 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by MorganV »

The Nelson Mandela tossup claimed that he gave a speech called "I am afraid to die" rather than "I am prepared to die", unless that was moderator error. I also remember noticing an inaccuracy in the tossup directly following the Mandela tossup, but I can't remember what that was at the moment.
Morgan Venkus
User avatar
JHuh33
Lulu
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:50 pm
Location: Carbondale, IL

Re: Masonic

Post by JHuh33 »

Hello, newbie here. I just wanted to pop in and comment on the questions today.
I would like to second the error on Cassius as well as point out some things my team encountered today at the Salem sectional.
The bonus/teamwork questions on "the Blues" and "Miles Davis (I believe)" had some errors to my knowledge.
Although I do not remember the exact error, I am pretty sure James Z. can tell you due to his interest in the subject area of the question.
On a different note, I thought the questions were rather straightforward but consistent overall.
Thanks to Mr. Reinstein and Mr. Taylor for writing an interesting set to an interesting format.
Jonathan Huh
CCHS
Class of '16
User avatar
The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Tidus
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by The Bold Ideas of Bernie Sanders (I-VT) »

Dominator wrote: IMSA was behind MVHS going into the second teamwork section, but ended up winning in a too-exciting finish.
The power of teamwork!!
Adam Sperber
Hickman '10, Northwestern B '14

" 'Yay, more Adam Sperber' --Nobody " --Cody Voight
User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by Emil Nolde »

JHuh33 wrote:Hello, newbie here. I just wanted to pop in and comment on the questions today.
I would like to second the error on Cassius as well as point out some things my team encountered today at the Salem sectional.
The bonus/teamwork questions on "the Blues" and "Miles Davis (I believe)" had some errors to my knowledge.
Although I do not remember the exact error, I am pretty sure James Z. can tell you due to his interest in the subject area of the question.
On a different note, I thought the questions were rather straightforward but consistent overall.
Thanks to Mr. Reinstein and Mr. Taylor for writing an interesting set to an interesting format.
No, man, I am 100% sure that wasn't how it actually appeared in the packet.
Anyway, the moderator said that "Straight Fruit" was a Billie Holiday song, and I believe he said that the Miles album was "King of Blue".
MorganV wrote:The Nelson Mandela tossup claimed that he gave a speech called "I am afraid to die" rather than "I am prepared to die", unless that was moderator error. I also remember noticing an inaccuracy in the tossup directly following the Mandela tossup, but I can't remember what that was at the moment.
If I recall correctly, our moderator said "prepared to die", but there's an abundant possibility that I am more wrong than a three-dollar bill, which, funny story, I had a dream where I got away with using one to pay for food.
Leucippe and Clitophon wrote:Now that results are posted, feel free to discuss individual questions. I realize that doing so is more difficult without access to the questions, but so it goes.

The errors I am aware of are:
A Henry VIII tossup said he was the father of Mary, Queen of Scots rather than Queen Mary I.
A bonus part asking which people Satan was consuming according to Dante said Crassus instead of Cassius for one of the names.
A GB Shaw tossup said Heartbreak Hotel instead of Heartbreak House.

Feel free to discuss any aspect of any question or questions.
AGH we got victimized on that Crassus/Cassius thing.
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

The Mandela question was wrong in the packet. The Miles Davis and Billie Holiday questions were right in the packet.

The question after Mandela was Mies van der Rohe.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by Emil Nolde »

I feel slightly ashamed that except for Henry VIII, I seem to have converted EVERY tossup with questionable details. Mandela, Mies van der Rohe, and Shaw. Yeah, guys, I am so legit, even if the details are completely inaccurate, it won't trip me up in the slightest! So feel free!
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.
User avatar
thrillhouse
Lulu
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:10 pm
Location: Geographical Oddity - Two weeks from everywhere

Re: Masonic

Post by thrillhouse »

First off, I would also like to thank, again, the Masons, who generously sponsor SB across the entire state, provide a free scholastic bowl tourney to teams with limited funds; whose donations add much-needed funding to the coffers of programs that are bereft from money from their districts in these times of budget cuts, and, on top of that, organize a tournament of this magnitude over the course of two weekends (I am including the A and AA state finals in Springfield).

Questionable questions aside, I would like the thank David and Donald for writing an exceptionally balanced and competitive packet - a Herculean task for a state-wide meet that draws in both the active and dormant programs from across , large and small. For those of us who have seen the evolution of Masonic questions, you know exactly what I mean.

I am from a Sectional, and region in general, that incorporates much of the DMZ of Illinois SB: we have many active teams, who yearn for and travel to, all sorts of venues across the state to try to play good QB, but there are also many of the traditionalists in our area, who lambaste many of the more recent changes in SB at the statewide level (less comp math and misc, and a seemingly higher level of lit outside the canonical, and more fine arts). Despite this, I heard nothing but positives regarding the packet distribution. Even the format was given glistening reviews from coaches I overheard talking, as it brings about closer games, encourages teamwork and diminishes the stats of the individual, and promotes the importance of the captain and his or her implementation of the strategic element of "bonus killing."

Along those lines, I would again like to send my thanks to the Masons. Yes, the Masonic rules are very particular, and different from any other type of SB played anywhere in Illinois (and the nation, as far as I am aware). Yet in spite of this, I commend them for making this meet their own, and for finding themselves amiable to all input, from the traditionalists or the modernist, no matter which side of the SB DMZ, Mason-Dixon Line, or whatever other metaphor you choose to call it, that input comes from. The changes made to the question structure and type, blurt rules, bonus format and confirmation times, as well as the overtime rules are examples of that. While I am not saying this is a perfect format, certainly, I do believe they seem to be striving to create a meet for the entire state - a very difficult balancing act indeed.
Tim Coughlan
Scholastic Bowl Coach, Bloomington High School
User avatar
MorganV
Mafiarator
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:12 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by MorganV »

Leucippe and Clitophon wrote:The Mandela question was wrong in the packet. The Miles Davis and Billie Holiday questions were right in the packet.

The question after Mandela was Mies van der Rohe.
Oh, in our room _van der Rohe_ was accepted despite _Mies_ being his proper surname and the usual underlined part in questions; again, not sure if that was packet or moderator.
Morgan Venkus
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

The packet said Ludwig Mies van der Rohe (prompt if part of the underlined information is given)
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Masonic

Post by heterodyne »

thyringe_supine wrote:
JHuh33 wrote: AGH we got victimized on that Crassus/Cassius thing.
Lost points on that one here too.
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
they
User avatar
4nay
Lulu
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:02 pm
Location: Plainfield, IL
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by 4nay »

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:
thyringe_supine wrote:
JHuh33 wrote: AGH we got victimized on that Crassus/Cassius thing.
Lost points on that one here too.
Same here.

Also, I don't know if Crete-Monee got the memo on the rule changes because the blurt rule was in full effect on Saturday.
Anay Katyal
Plainfield North High School '14
Michigan '18
User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by Emil Nolde »

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:
thyringe_supine wrote:
JHuh33 wrote: AGH we got victimized on that Crassus/Cassius thing.
Lost points on that one here too.
Hey, guys, don't misidentify your quote sources. It's my line. :P
Leucippe and Clitophon wrote:The packet said Ludwig Mies van der Rohe (prompt if part of the underlined information is given)
I personally feel wrong as a player if I don't give the whole thing. I know 'van der Rohe' just identifies his hometown or whatever, but 'Ludwig Mies' just doesn't sound complete. Also, not saying anything wrong is actually happening in this set or any other, but it seems like these architectural anecdote clues (e.g. 'less is more', 'form follows function', etc.) are spontaneously multiplying, as are (seemingly) the individuals with whom they are associated.
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.
User avatar
Auks Ran Ova
Forums Staff: Chief Administrator
Posts: 4143
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: Minneapolis
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

thyringe_supine wrote:I personally feel wrong as a player if I don't give the whole thing. I know 'van der Rohe' just identifies his hometown or whatever, but 'Ludwig Mies' just doesn't sound complete.
Your misplaced sense of quizbowl aesthetics aside, the guy was born with the surname "Mies" and was known throughout his life as "Mies", so either way "Mies" alone should always be acceptable.

E: incidentally, while a surname like "van der Rohe" would normally identify a person's hometown (or similar origin), it's actually just an affectation he added to fit in with high society. "Rohe" was his mother's maiden name.
Rob Carson
University of Minnesota '11, MCTC '??
Member, ACF
Member, PACE
Writer and Editor, NAQT
User avatar
Cheynem
Sin
Posts: 6826
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Re: Masonic

Post by Cheynem »

By architectural anecdote, I guess you mean "key parts of famous architectural ideologies." Like "form follows function" isn't the name of Louis Sullivan's dog or something, it's his core of his philosophy! How is that an anecdote?
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota

"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Masonic

Post by heterodyne »

A rules-related question: Was the "captain must give answer" rule in effect everywhere? It was only going on in some rooms here, but is that actually part of the current rules?
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
they
User avatar
mhasquin
Lulu
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:09 pm
Location: Piasa, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by mhasquin »

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:A rules-related question: Was the "captain must give answer" rule in effect everywhere? It was only going on in some rooms here, but is that actually part of the current rules?
It was enforced at our Sectional at SW. We spent time preparing for it during our practice time this past week... It was just like riding a bike. Seemed kind of "old-fashioned." :lol:
Matt Hasquin
Scholastic Bowl Coach - Southwestern High School - Piasa, Illinois
IHSSBCA Chair
User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Masonic

Post by heterodyne »

A corollary to that question: will that rule be enforced at state?
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
they
User avatar
Emil Nolde
Wakka
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:54 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Masonic

Post by Emil Nolde »

Ukonvasara wrote:
thyringe_supine wrote:I personally feel wrong as a player if I don't give the whole thing. I know 'van der Rohe' just identifies his hometown or whatever, but 'Ludwig Mies' just doesn't sound complete.
Your misplaced sense of quizbowl aesthetics aside, the guy was born with the surname "Mies" and was known throughout his life as "Mies", so either way "Mies" alone should always be acceptable.

E: incidentally, while a surname like "van der Rohe" would normally identify a person's hometown (or similar origin), it's actually just an affectation he added to fit in with high society. "Rohe" was his mother's maiden name.
It's not that I was ignorant of the fact, it's just that I always use the whole thing because it rolls off of the tongue much better that way. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be accepted, nor am I advising anyone else to do anything. I didn't know the second part, though, and now that I do, it only affirms my personal guideline to use the name that the person in question used for him or herself.
Cheynem wrote:By architectural anecdote, I guess you mean "key parts of famous architectural ideologies." Like "form follows function" isn't the name of Louis Sullivan's dog or something, it's his core of his philosophy! How is that an anecdote?
I was mostly joking.
James Zetterman
Carbondale Community High School '15
SIU Carbondale '19 or thereabouts

Keep your expectations low.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:A rules-related question: Was the "captain must give answer" rule in effect everywhere? It was only going on in some rooms here, but is that actually part of the current rules?
My understanding is that the captain has to direct the answer, but can still designate.
User avatar
dtaylor4
Auron
Posts: 3733
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 am

Re: Masonic

Post by dtaylor4 »

dtaylor4 wrote:
This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:A rules-related question: Was the "captain must give answer" rule in effect everywhere? It was only going on in some rooms here, but is that actually part of the current rules?
My understanding is that the captain has to direct the answer, but can still designate.
Follow-up. It IS in the rules, and will be enforced at State. As to what happens when a different player answers, at this point I cannot answer that question.

I don't like the rule, and if in attendance at this year's meeting, I will try to get it changed. Until then...
mrgsmath
Wakka
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:36 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by mrgsmath »

dtaylor4 wrote:
dtaylor4 wrote:
This Urn Is So Grecian wrote:A rules-related question: Was the "captain must give answer" rule in effect everywhere? It was only going on in some rooms here, but is that actually part of the current rules?
My understanding is that the captain has to direct the answer, but can still designate.
Follow-up. It IS in the rules, and will be enforced at State. As to what happens when a different player answers, at this point I cannot answer that question.

I don't like the rule, and if in attendance at this year's meeting, I will try to get it changed. Until then...
At PORTA we covered the rule with the players beforehand at the opening ceromony and recommended the captains to defer as needed. Moderators were instructed to use some broad interpretation and to accept most answers directed towards them as having been defered, or to just say "captain" if there was any confusion on the answer. Gentle reminders were offered occassionally in order to maintain some order but forthe most part the captains adapted well, and with 10 seconds to respond it really was not an issue. The Masons were made aware of the concern at the time the matter of confering during the reading of bonuses was being resolved, but the confering issue took priority, and time was an issue in getting directives out to the Sectional hosts. It is an issue that is likely to be corrected for next year, but at that time it did not seem to be a major violation, since there is no penalty for non-captains answering, just a minor delay while the moderator asks the captain for an answer. The real problem we had was rebounding teams wanting to continue confering while the team in control had called time and was giving an answer, which is not to be allowed.
Mark Grant
Coach - PORTA H.S.
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got ."
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

Masonic Sectional Set

Here are the comments from PACE:
I'm pleased to let you know that PACE has certified Illinois Masonics Academic Bowl 2013 Sectionals Tournament as an exemplary tournament.

We thought the tournament did a very good job controlling difficulty. Tossup length was well controlled as well, with very few of the questions having an excess number of leadin-level clues.

We also liked the creative use of clues in the literature bonuses to test deeper knowledge of a subject while still sticking to the core canonical texts. Examples that come to mind include the windmills part in the Animal Farm bonus or the Ohio River part in the Uncle Tom's Cabin bonus.

A couple of specific things that we felt could be improved:

Sometimes the pronouns would get lost a bit. For instance, the tossup on hearts contained the sentence, "This also contains papillary muscles, which can be damaged by ischemia". That sentence would be clearer if it was, "This organ also contains..." This same construction is used a couple of tossups later in the Mars question ("This contains large canyons called Valles Marineris ...").

Some of the bonuses seemed to have three parts of equal-ish difficulty, while others had more rigidly defined easy/medium/hard parts. For instance, "Creatures of Prometheus" is definitely the hard part of the Beethoven bonus, but the three parts in the Freud bonus seemed pretty similar in difficulty.

Overall, though, this tournament met the exemplary bar.

Finally, let me once again apologize for the delay in getting this certification to you. I will also note that this set has been judged entirely on its merits and the public discussion of the certification process did not impact our rating here.
I'll post the State Set later. I do not yet have results, but I think the tournament is nearing its conclusion.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

Masonic State final results (via Cathy Groesch):
AA: 1. Loyola 2. Macomb 3. IMSA 4. Carbondale
A: 1. Litchfield 2. Peoria Christian 3. Cumberland 4. Elmwood
Both championship matches were won by 10 points on the final question.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
User avatar
heterodyne
Rikku
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:47 am

Re: Masonic

Post by heterodyne »

Congrats to the winners and also to all the runners-up; I'd list them but I'm on mobile and lazy. Thanks to Springfield, the Masons, and all the volunteers (and anyone who I may be leaving out) for putting on what I and my teammates felt was a very smooth-running tournament. When will these sets be cleared for discussion?
Alston [Montgomery] Boyd
Bloomington High School '15
UChicago '19
UChicago Divinity '21
they
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Masonic

Post by Stained Diviner »

Everything is cleared for discussion. The link to the Sectional set is above, and the State set should appear here soon.

Here is the last question:
This curve can be called Richards’ curve and is similar to the Gompertz function, and it is used to create scales under the Rasch model. A graph of this function has the same shape as the hyperbolic tangent, and its derivative is equal to the function itself times the quantity of a constant minus the function itself. This can be expressed as a number divided by the quantity of a number plus an exponential function. Name this function that starts off with approximately exponential growth but slows, especially as it approaches the carrying capacity.
logistic (curve or function)
EDIT: If you don't want to wait, it is posted here.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)
remake20
Lulu
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Re: Masonic

Post by remake20 »

Thank you very much to the Masons, Mr. Reinstein and Mr. Taylor, and Springfield High School. I enjoyed myself thoroughly. Congrats Loyola! Peoria Christian, Elmwood, and Cumberland are all great teams and played very well.
Andrew T.
Litchfield '15
Locked