2012 NAC
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Re: 2012 NAC
I mean, this is a pretty "no duh" kind of question. An old proto-quizbowl existed since the early 80s, there were no good competitors, and then suddenly a little before 2000 there came to be a couple competitors who offered an alternative product that was self evidently more able to reward deep knowledge and hard work, which are two qualities of the game that it doesn't take a lot of effort to understand why they are good, and thus teams who were able to see that and liked that version of quizbowl started to attend it instead.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Re: 2012 NAC
Just from my regional perspective:
When I was in high school, NAC was the only option we were aware of (besides Panasonic at Disney World, but that's a completely different animal). Our local TV program was Chip-run; our city hosted his national tournament. Texas began to change when Texaco dropped sponsorship; our last Chip TV tournament was 1994-95. Nationals left Rice after 1994.
Texas people started abandoning Chip nationals (without necessarily anywhere else to go) when they were subject to or otherwise witnessed corrupt decisions. But that was still a small group. In our region, droves started leaving only when other national options existed or became more prevalent. Pyramidal high school questions began to flow in gradually.
If anyone's genuinely interested in what Chip matches looked like long ago, YouTube uploads could be hesitantly arranged. But again, the consensus is correct; little has changed in the 17 intervening years, it seems.
Edit: Clarified lower that I was misinterpreting "competitors"
When I was in high school, NAC was the only option we were aware of (besides Panasonic at Disney World, but that's a completely different animal). Our local TV program was Chip-run; our city hosted his national tournament. Texas began to change when Texaco dropped sponsorship; our last Chip TV tournament was 1994-95. Nationals left Rice after 1994.
Texas people started abandoning Chip nationals (without necessarily anywhere else to go) when they were subject to or otherwise witnessed corrupt decisions. But that was still a small group. In our region, droves started leaving only when other national options existed or became more prevalent. Pyramidal high school questions began to flow in gradually.
If anyone's genuinely interested in what Chip matches looked like long ago, YouTube uploads could be hesitantly arranged. But again, the consensus is correct; little has changed in the 17 intervening years, it seems.
Yaphe played Chip nationals at Rice for TJ at least twice, I believe, so I'll go ahead and refute that. It's not like the era was devoid of smart people. It was devoid of smart quizbowl.Horned Screamer wrote:there were no good competitors, and then suddenly a little before 2000
Edit: Clarified lower that I was misinterpreting "competitors"
Last edited by etchdulac on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stephen Fontenot
Texas Quiz Bowl Alliance Deputy Director
Communications, UT Dallas
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Re: 2012 NAC
He means competitors in the economic sense.
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Re: 2012 NAC
My bad. Misinterpreted that, since it was "competitors" in the playing sense who became frustrated with the state of quizbowl, and became those economic "competitors".Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant wrote:He means competitors in the economic sense.
Stephen Fontenot
Texas Quiz Bowl Alliance Deputy Director
Communications, UT Dallas
Strake Jesuit '96 -+-+- Southwestern '00
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Communications, UT Dallas
Strake Jesuit '96 -+-+- Southwestern '00
Re: 2012 NAC
Those tournaments (and regular season ones like them) presented teams with a choice.something ambiguous wrote:Alright, but that made teams think pyramidal was better, or was NAC just so bad that anything was better than :chip:bowl?Scaled Flowerpiercer wrote:Though I did not experience this transition, I can say from experience of reading Chip packets from every year 1989-2012 that Chip questions did not just "get bad" at some point; they have remained largely the same: any changes are pretty small, and are more like baby steps in the forward direction than baby steps backwards. They "started getting bad" in the sense that there started to be more good tournaments for them to be worse than. The first NSC was in 1998 and the first HSNCT was in 1999, so that would be around the time that pyramidal tournaments caused people to leave NAC; before then teams wouldn't really have anywhere to go (the first NAC was back in 1983), but once better opportunities presented themselves, teams took advantage of them.something ambiguous wrote:Out of sheer curiosity, when/why did people start leaving the NAC? Did questions start getting bad. I guess what I'm trying to ask is why did people go to pyramidal and leave the NAC.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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former PACE member, president, etc.
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Re: 2012 NAC
The amazing part of the story is how slow the transition has been. If Apple decided in 1983 that they were going to keep selling the Apple IIe as their primary product without making significant upgrades, they would have lost their customers pretty quickly when the competition came out with better computers.
Also, there is no simple answer as to why many teams have switched. In a perfect world, it would be because all teams were looking for the most educationally valid competition within practical limitations, but we live in an imperfect and complicated world.
Also, there is no simple answer as to why many teams have switched. In a perfect world, it would be because all teams were looking for the most educationally valid competition within practical limitations, but we live in an imperfect and complicated world.
Re: 2012 NAC
Just a little something I found amusing -- the writeup of this year's JNAC didn't even mention the fact that Longfellow didn't attend after winning three in a row.
Tajin Rogers
Longfellow MS '10-'12
St. Anselm's '12-'13
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Re: 2012 NAC
Hey, consider this a little preview of my forthcoming long manifesto on thinking that "pyramidal" is the only necessary component of "good:" I don't think this is an accurate description of why teams stopped playing Chip. NSC questions in 1998 and 1999 weren't so great, nor were NAQT questions in those years. It's debatable to what extent either one fits the modern concept of "pyramidality," at least any more so than a multi-sentence Chip question allegedly does. Teams left Chip because they were getting screwed by the arbitrary if not outright fixed judging at the tournament, by the high cost for a tiny number of games, and by the bizarre dressings of an event that is set up to play to a television camera that isn't there. Even when the other questions weren't better, even when the teams didn't know or care about the difference in quality between different kinds of questions, they chose to stop playing Chip because of the ETHICAL issues involved in doing so. This is one of many points that is lost by a focus on "pyramidality" to the exclusion of all other components of good quizbowl: it's an irrational decision to play Chip *EVEN IF* you don't care about question quality, or *EVEN IF* you genuinely enjoy Chip-style questions, because of overriding fairness/morality issues that are more important than anything specific to quizbowl aesthetics.something ambiguous wrote:Alright, but that made teams think pyramidal was better, or was NAC just so bad that anything was better than :chip:bowl?Scaled Flowerpiercer wrote:Though I did not experience this transition, I can say from experience of reading Chip packets from every year 1989-2012 that Chip questions did not just "get bad" at some point; they have remained largely the same: any changes are pretty small, and are more like baby steps in the forward direction than baby steps backwards. They "started getting bad" in the sense that there started to be more good tournaments for them to be worse than. The first NSC was in 1998 and the first HSNCT was in 1999, so that would be around the time that pyramidal tournaments caused people to leave NAC; before then teams wouldn't really have anywhere to go (the first NAC was back in 1983), but once better opportunities presented themselves, teams took advantage of them.something ambiguous wrote:Out of sheer curiosity, when/why did people start leaving the NAC? Did questions start getting bad. I guess what I'm trying to ask is why did people go to pyramidal and leave the NAC.
The history of Chip defections is really, up until 2002 or so, way more about teams being sick and tired of getting screwed or washing their hands of scumbag behavior, than about question quality issues.
Matt Weiner
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
Re: 2012 NAC
Having seen some of this era first-hand, I can attest to this. In part, that is why the departures began slowly; each was related to an event in which only one team was screwed over, and only so many people ever found out about an individual incident. In the era before widespread internet usage, it was easier to keep these things quiet on a national scale.Matt Weiner wrote:Teams left Chip because they were getting screwed by the arbitrary if not outright fixed judging at the tournament, by the high cost for a tiny number of games, and by the bizarre dressings of an event that is set up to play to a television camera that isn't there. ... they chose to stop playing Chip because of the ETHICAL issues involved in doing so.
Stephen Fontenot
Texas Quiz Bowl Alliance Deputy Director
Communications, UT Dallas
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Re: 2012 NAC
Also, though, it was never like Chip had a monopoly on the quizbowl market. Quizbowl developed semi-spontaneously in lots of different places, with all different formats, mostly devised by people who were old coaches or independent question writers coming up with different ways to ask questions for their tournaments. Chip was the most successful just because he ran a huge national every year and probably had the most reach at one point, but Auk, Questions Galore, Triple Q, Patrick's Press, Question Bank, and god knows what else have been around writing their own bad sets since forever and they had plenty of business. In Missouri for example, Chip basically has never had any influence whatsoever.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Re: 2012 NAC
This is kind of funny to me because basically CC was one of the first to leave NAC for HSNCT and NSC.something ambiguous wrote:Out of sheer curiosity, when/why did people start leaving the NAC? Did questions start getting bad? I guess what I'm trying to ask is why did people go to pyramidal and leave the NAC?
Joe Galea, Assistant Coach, Olmsted Falls HS, Olmsted Falls, Ohio.
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Re: 2012 NAC
We're you around when that happened?jgalea84 wrote:This is kind of funny to me because basically CC was one of the first to leave NAC for HSNCT and NSC.something ambiguous wrote:Out of sheer curiosity, when/why did people start leaving the NAC? Did questions start getting bad? I guess what I'm trying to ask is why did people go to pyramidal and leave the NAC?
Collin Parks
University of Michigan '18
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Re: 2012 NAC
Wouldn't it be cool if there existed some sort of national championship tournament where the winner actually defeated their competitors?Junior NAC Write-Up wrote:Declaring a National Champion
Flushing defeated Bate in the Chicago Finals, 475-235. Again, Conway Christian Middle School won New Orleans, but had suffered two defeats in the prelims. Ditto Flushing. Hard to believe from their performance on Playoff Monday, but Flushing too had been defeated twice in the prelims – including a loss against Hopkins West. Therefore, Trickum Middle School, Coached by Linda LaPerre and Cary Sell, with an 8-0 record in DC, is crowned 2012 National Champs. Flushing edged Trickum in average points per game, 374-373. It will remain a matter of speculation whether Flushing would beat Trickum, if it were possible to arrange a game between the two. As it is, Trickum is No. 1, but Flushing’s Myles Siglin was named tournament MVP. And he’s only a graduating 7th grader!
Also, is there any doubt that Kealing (or Longfellow for that matter) would utterly wreck any of these teams?
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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Re: 2012 NAC
Given the tricky tricky tricky questions, I don't think it would be a given for any good teams (including Kealing and Longfellow) to beat these teams.the return of AHAN wrote:Wouldn't it be cool if there existed some sort of national championship tournament where the winner actually defeated their competitors?Junior NAC Write-Up wrote:Declaring a National Champion
Flushing defeated Bate in the Chicago Finals, 475-235. Again, Conway Christian Middle School won New Orleans, but had suffered two defeats in the prelims. Ditto Flushing. Hard to believe from their performance on Playoff Monday, but Flushing too had been defeated twice in the prelims – including a loss against Hopkins West. Therefore, Trickum Middle School, Coached by Linda LaPerre and Cary Sell, with an 8-0 record in DC, is crowned 2012 National Champs. Flushing edged Trickum in average points per game, 374-373. It will remain a matter of speculation whether Flushing would beat Trickum, if it were possible to arrange a game between the two. As it is, Trickum is No. 1, but Flushing’s Myles Siglin was named tournament MVP. And he’s only a graduating 7th grader!
Also, is there any doubt that Kealing (or Longfellow for that matter) would utterly wreck any of these teams?
Brittany Trang
Ohio State
Northwestern
Ohio State
Northwestern
Re: 2012 NAC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3l5RyAqI4tintinnabulation wrote:Given the tricky tricky tricky questions
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
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Re: 2012 NAC
I think there is, actually: Trickum played both NAQT regular-season sets in Georgia, and went 18-0 with a victory over Westminster, the 3rd-place finisher at MSNCT.the return of AHAN wrote:is there any doubt that Kealing (or Longfellow for that matter) would utterly wreck any of these teams?
Jeff Hoppes
President, Northern California Quiz Bowl Alliance
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Re: 2012 NAC
Trickum Middle School has an excellent team. I wish that they had attended the MSNCT as I think that they would have done quite well there.bt_green_warbler wrote:I think there is, actually: Trickum played both NAQT regular-season sets in Georgia, and went 18-0 with a victory over Westminster, the 3rd-place finisher at MSNCT.the return of AHAN wrote:is there any doubt that Kealing (or Longfellow for that matter) would utterly wreck any of these teams?
Cathy Hirsch
Chamblee Middle School (2013-present)
Central Gwinnett High School (1997-2012)
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Re: 2012 NAC
I'm curious as to why Trickum chose NAC over MSNCT, considering that good quiz bowl is so firmly entrenched in Georgia to the point that the state tournament uses NAQT. Does bad quiz bowl, or Chip specifically, have a significant foothold in the middle school circuit there?
Jason Loy
Cutter Morning Star HS '00-'04
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Re: 2012 NAC
It's hard to say if they attended a regional, since they don't post the tournament fields; just who won. It's possible they got in through Quiznet, or even the Twenty Questions, though I don't see them on the (probably not comprehensive*) Quiznet page. I don't know about Gwinnett (east Atlanta area) schools, but pretty much all the Bibb County (Macon) schools with quizbowl clubs do Quiznet bleeeeggggghhhh.
*edit: I take this back; upon actual inspection it does look like they have all the matches.
*edit: I take this back; upon actual inspection it does look like they have all the matches.
Last edited by Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Re: 2012 NAC
I would imagine that it came down primarily to date and/or location. I know from talking to teachers at Trickum that the team was excited about making the trip to Washington. Also, Georgia schools get out extremely early so the MSNCT fell very near the end of the school year; the NAC was during summer vacation for Georgia schools, possibly making it more convenient.tuscumbiaqb wrote:I'm curious as to why Trickum chose NAC over MSNCT, considering that good quiz bowl is so firmly entrenched in Georgia to the point that the state tournament uses NAQT. Does bad quiz bowl, or Chip specifically, have a significant foothold in the middle school circuit there?
Cathy Hirsch
Chamblee Middle School (2013-present)
Central Gwinnett High School (1997-2012)
Chamblee Middle School (2013-present)
Central Gwinnett High School (1997-2012)
Re: 2012 NAC
Apropos of nothing, I'm wondering if something like the Online Skype League could, if it hasn't already, tried to capture the QuizNet audience. Even after we realized how bad Chip was, we did QuizNet for a year when I was in HS because we were ignorant of better online options and thought it was fun to play quizbowl online.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
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Re: 2012 NAC
Since Quiznet apparently counts toward coaches' stipends (thus teams are encouraged by the board to do it), I've considered sending whoever's in charge of middle and high school quizbowl in Bibb County a kindly-worded letter pointing out the advantages of going to actual good tournaments around the state. However, there's been a lot of crazy going on with the new BOE superintendent, so even if I could find out who it is, I don't think I'd be able to get a word in edgewise.
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
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Re: 2012 NAC
With all due respect, Trickum's reported bonus conversion on MS-02 was pretty pedestrian; not something I'd expect from a team that'd give Kealing or Longfellow a run for their money. But they do deserve some respect for their winbt_green_warbler wrote:I think there is, actually: Trickum played both NAQT regular-season sets in Georgia, and went 18-0 with a victory over Westminster, the 3rd-place finisher at MSNCT.the return of AHAN wrote:is there any doubt that Kealing (or Longfellow for that matter) would utterly wreck any of these teams?
EDIT: OH WAIT, Trickum never had to face Westminster, who lost to Duluth in a single-elimination playoff....
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: 2012 NAC
There's this as well; I suspect that the listed bonus conversions are likely inaccurate for all teams.
Jeff Hoppes
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former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
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former HSQB Chief Admin (2012-13)
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Editor emeritus, ACF
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Re: 2012 NAC
Perhaps they modified bonuses so they only have two parts, which I understand is fairly common in Georgia?
Jason Loy
Cutter Morning Star HS '00-'04
Harding '04-'08
Missouri State '08-'10
Coach, Tuscumbia High School
Member of HSAPQ, MOQBA, PACE
Cutter Morning Star HS '00-'04
Harding '04-'08
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Re: 2012 NAC
First half 8/0, second 8/8 (I guess three-part bonuses?).
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Re: 2012 NAC
I can't speak for the format used at the Jaguar Bowl, but the Georgia Middle School State tournament did use two-part bonuses. I'm not sure if the use of the two part bonus is the norm at middle school tournaments in Georgia but most of the high school tournaments (at least in my experience) use the standard three-part bonus.tuscumbiaqb wrote:Perhaps they modified bonuses so they only have two parts, which I understand is fairly common in Georgia?
Trickum is probably not at the level of either Kealing or Longfellow and they never competed during the year against high school teams. But they are a legitimately strong middle school team, similar in overall ability level to Westminster's middle school team (although lacking the kind of standout player that Westminster had in Nilai Sarda.)
Cathy Hirsch
Chamblee Middle School (2013-present)
Central Gwinnett High School (1997-2012)
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Re: 2012 NAC
Does Trickum have an established team, and most importantly, have they gone to the NAC before?
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Re: 2012 NAC
Trickum Middle School has had a strong, very active team for years. It is the feeder middle school for Parkview High School which, until the last couple of years, also had a perennially strong, active team.Horned Screamer wrote:Does Trickum have an established team, and most importantly, have they gone to the NAC before?
According to the official write up for the NAC, this is the first year that they have attended that event.
Cathy Hirsch
Chamblee Middle School (2013-present)
Central Gwinnett High School (1997-2012)
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Re: 2012 NAC
They beat Westminster A and B directly at Jaguar Bowl, though.the return of AHAN wrote:EDIT: OH WAIT, Trickum never had to face Westminster, who lost to Duluth in a single-elimination playoff....
Robert Pond
Kings Park '10
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Re: 2012 NAC
Oh, I guess I should mention that Irvington was not made "small school champion" because we forgot to explicitly tell Chip that we were a small school when registering. Though he now knows that we are a small school Irvington will not get recognized for the award (despite being the most successful team meeting the description).
Another thing that I just thought I would point out because I haven't seen anyone mention it anywhere else really, Chip's choice of the MVP of each section of the NAC tends is that he picks the person on the winning team who seemed to score the most, there aren't any individual stats of any sort to make a more accurate determination.
Also, this is on the the qunlimited website:
Another thing that I just thought I would point out because I haven't seen anyone mention it anywhere else really, Chip's choice of the MVP of each section of the NAC tends is that he picks the person on the winning team who seemed to score the most, there aren't any individual stats of any sort to make a more accurate determination.
Also, this is on the the qunlimited website:
It isn't true that most tournaments use Chip questions still, I am pretty sure, right?qunlimited.com/trn.html wrote:There are more than a thousand high school academic competitions across the country, and most of them use Questions Unlimited.
We have helped start hundreds of quiz programs, and many others have adopted our format and questions for their official competitions.
In business since 1978, we are America's largest supplier of official tournament questions and answers for academic competition.
Samuel Donow
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16
Re: 2012 NAC
Lies from Questions Unlimited?! Inconceivable!
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
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- Auron
- Posts: 1891
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 5:48 pm
- Location: Palo Alto, California
Re: 2012 NAC
Next you'll tell me that UD Jesuit isn't the No. 1 Academic Team in the nation?!?
Ryan Rosenberg
North Carolina '16
NYU '26 (ideally)
ACF
North Carolina '16
NYU '26 (ideally)
ACF
- Scaled Flowerpiercer
- Wakka
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:03 pm
- Location: Irvington, NY
Re: 2012 NAC
Well, I obviously knew that they had lied before but I thought that most of the lies were at least subjective very large bendings of the truth (like the questions' "Unsurpassed quality and variety" or Detroit Jesuit being the "No. 1 Academic Team in the Nation"), but especially on this page these are just straight up lies.
a little further down the page:
a little further down the page:
is also not true, we had a tournament a while back with almost all the same questions as an area tournament the past year.qunlimited.com wrote:Because we keep detailed records on our customers, you can be sure that you won't receive the same questions as another tournament in your area. Of course, you'll receive different questions each time you order.
Samuel Donow
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16
Irvington High School '12
Williams College '16
- Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant
- Yuna
- Posts: 853
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:05 pm
- Location: Evanston, IL
Re: 2012 NAC
Well, since this thread is still going on, I suppose it's not too late...
Someone please photoshop some Back to the Future parody images.Matt Weiner wrote:Every NAC is like time travel to quizbowl in 1985!
Farrah Bilimoria
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
Formerly of Georgia Tech and Central High School (Macon)
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- Auron
- Posts: 2248
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:08 am
- Location: Kentucky
Re: 2012 NAC
I hacked this together but others could probably do much better. I'm also not sure why there's even a listing of Chip Beall as a meme or whatever, but it's likely not for good reasons.Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant wrote:Someone please photoshop some Back to the Future parody images.
On a more serious note, I did see that a couple teams from our middle school tournament (including the champion) decided to attend JNAC. I find it repulsive to even consider the possibility that our tournament qualified them for JNAC. I'm sure that's not the case, but next year I may go to extra lengths to point out the existence of MSNCT, HSNCT, and NSC to every team that attends our tournaments, and I may even go so far to explicitly point out the flaws of events.
On that last point I do have one question to throw out there: I can't just tell a team "Hey I heard you did great at NAC, but that means nothing, so go play this other tournament!" I don't want to turn any teams away from pyramidal quizbowl through any perceived insults, so how do others deal with teams who do well at NAC and avoid coming across as dismissing what the team thinks is a great accomplishment?
Nicholas C
KQBA member
KQBA member
Re: 2012 NAC
Sorry for the late post, but I just read this. I went to Trickum and graduated from/played QB at Parkview; what a shame to hear that they are no longer active. We were never quite at the level of Brookwood or Chattahoochee, but we had a pretty good team for a few years there.centralhs wrote: Trickum Middle School has had a strong, very active team for years. It is the feeder middle school for Parkview High School which, until the last couple of years, also had a perennially strong, active team.
Ryan McLaren
President, Tulane University Krewe of Quiz Bowl (2009-12)
Member, Louisiana Quiz Bowl (http://www.louisianaquizbowl.org/)
Tulane University Law School '15
President, Tulane University Krewe of Quiz Bowl (2009-12)
Member, Louisiana Quiz Bowl (http://www.louisianaquizbowl.org/)
Tulane University Law School '15
- Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad
- Wakka
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:28 am
Re: 2012 NAC
In a word, EVOLUTION. The history of my own teams over 20+ years is that their own personal experience(s) of sampling one kind and then another kind of QB made them realize where the greater challenge was. I don't think I ever even made an explicit executive decision as a coach in this area; my students simply evolved toward a system which they perceived as more rigorous, more comprehensive, and more challenging. That combo works for a lot of students and a lot of schools. Clearly for some it doesn't -- and that's OK, too. What is the old adage about leading a horse to water . . . Well, here we are ranked # 5 in pre-season. I never thougtht we'd come this far, but we have -- because the STUDENTS wanted it to happen.Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant wrote:Someone please photoshop some Back to the Future parody images.
On that last point I do have one question to throw out there: I can't just tell a team "Hey I heard you did great at NAC, but that means nothing, so go play this other tournament!" I don't want to turn any teams away from pyramidal quizbowl through any perceived insults, so how do others deal with teams who do well at NAC and avoid coming across as dismissing what the team thinks is a great accomplishment?
Gregory Schweers
County of Dallas
City of Irving
Cistercian Preparatory School Team
The only Monk on this whole board
County of Dallas
City of Irving
Cistercian Preparatory School Team
The only Monk on this whole board
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- Auron
- Posts: 1401
- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:27 am
- Location: Morton Grove, IL
Re: 2012 NAC
I can second Fr. Gregory's comments; we initially stopped going to a lot of tournaments because my students outgrew them. They wanted more challenges, and fortunately NAQT and PACE were there, as well as local tournaments that began to use better questions than what we had been hearing.
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
- CSQuizJags
- Tidus
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:47 pm
- Location: Cedar Shoals HS- Athens, Georgia
Re: 2012 NAC
You are correct, Farrah. We gave them three part bonuses (powers even) and a couple of the "prominent" teams' coaches groused and said that was too much and not "the norm." The local teams, on the other hand, with very little shot at getting to Chicago, loved it. We're not changing that aspect. Heck, may expand to 9/0 and 9/9.Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant wrote:First half 8/0, second 8/8 (I guess three-part bonuses?).
Cedar Shoals HS Academic Team:
2011, 2012, and 2013 Classic City Academic Team Champions
2014 Region 8-AAAAA Varsity and JV Champions
2013 GATA Class AAAAA JV State Champions
2014 WSB-TV HighQ Tournament Champions
Arthur Banks, Advisor
2011, 2012, and 2013 Classic City Academic Team Champions
2014 Region 8-AAAAA Varsity and JV Champions
2013 GATA Class AAAAA JV State Champions
2014 WSB-TV HighQ Tournament Champions
Arthur Banks, Advisor