University of Louisville Academic Challenge

[Church51907]

The University of Louisville will host the 4th annual Arts & Sciences Academic Challenge on December 4th, 2010. We will be using NAQT questions and will have preliminary competition in the morning with rebracketing in the afternoon. The fees have not been decided, but I will post them as soon as I get our budget for next year. Good luck to all teams at Nationals and please let me know if you are interested in attending either by posting on this site or by e-mailing me at [email protected]

Matt Church
University of Louisville

[Scott]

Grayson will bring 2-4 teams to this, depending on how our program progresses over the next several months.

[FCPanther]

Fleming County is planning on bringing two and possibly three squads.

[Church51907]

Our tournament is currently schedule for the same day as the Rowdy Raider, so we are going to reschedule. As of now, our tournament will be on November 13th. Does this work for everyone? We could possibly try the 20th, but that is the day of the U of L-WVU game and the campus will be crazy. All the best.
Matt
U of L

[Scott]

Either day would work for us; just be sure that Dunbar and Vandy are aware of the date.

[Rococo A Go Go]

Our tournament is currently schedule for the same day as the Rowdy Raider, so we are going to reschedule. As of now, our tournament will be on November 13th. Does this work for everyone? We could possibly try the 20th, but that is the day of the U of L-WVU game and the campus will be crazy. All the best.
Matt
U of L

That is usually the weekend that JV Challenge is on, although I'm not sure if JV Challenge will stay on the same weekend next year.

[FCPanther]

Fleming will be playing JV Challenge (and will try to get back to Wright State, I just hadn't looked that far ahead at the schedule) so that weekend is out for us. Whatever works for the majority of your teams is fine with us.

[Church51907]

If the JV Challenge is for sure on the 13th, we will move it to the 20th. I am just waiting on confirmation from KAAC.
Matt
U of L

[djones]

Matt,
If we can work out so that Wright State and Louisville are using different sets, I will bring Northmont down for this event (I am the host at WSU, so that event has to take precedence). The 20th works well for us. Thank you for looking at a date change- hopefully both events draw large fields- I will spread the word in SW and WC Ohio.

[Church51907]

The tournament will now be on the 20th. David, I e-mailed NAQT to ask if we get different sets of questions. I will post more details about pricing, field size, and such as soon as I have them.

Matt Church
U of L

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

Have you decided if you'll ask NAQT for an IS-set or an A-set? There's an Ohio tournament going on the same day, but I may try to convince my team to go to this, depending on which set is used.

[dxdtdemon]

Have you decided if you'll ask NAQT for an IS-set or an A-set? There's an Ohio tournament going on the same day, but I may try to convince my team to go to this, depending on which set is used.

Isn't the tournament in Ohio that is happening on 11/20 using the 40 rule and happening about as far away from both you and Kentucky as you can get and still be in Ohio? It wouldn't seem like that would be too much of a conflict.

EDIT: I was referring to the tournament that will likely be run on an A-set north of Warren.

[Scott]

What is the 40 rule? Just curious.
Sorry if it's something obvious that I should know.

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40. And I thought Bowling Green State University's tournament was going to be that day. That's only half an hour or so farther than Louisville, and I'd prefer to play against Ohioans if the sets are comprable.

By the way, since my signature doesn't seem to be working, I'm Joe Nutter, Walnut Hills '11.

[Whiter Hydra]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40.

So hypothetically three people from State College can attend as a team?

[nobthehobbit]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40.

So hypothetically three people from State College can attend as a team?

Yeah, the spirit of the rule is, I think, "average of the grade levels must be less than 10". Maybe this should be the actual rule.

[Church51907]

Hope everyone is doing well. We are getting an Invitational Series set.
Matt Church
U of L

[Kyle]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40.

So hypothetically three people from State College can attend as a team?

Yeah, the spirit of the rule is, I think, "average of the grade levels must be less than 10". Maybe this should be the actual rule.

Ooh, three seniors from State College and a precocious third grader!

[nobthehobbit]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40.

So hypothetically three people from State College can attend as a team?

Yeah, the spirit of the rule is, I think, "average of the grade levels must be less than 10". Maybe this should be the actual rule.

Ooh, three seniors from State College and a precocious third grader!

Okay, fine, let's go with Matt's rule from Delta Burke: If you're too good, you can't play.

[Church51907]

Hope everyone is well. Any teams that are interested in attending on the 20th, please let me know either by posting or sending me an e-mail to [email protected]. All the best.
Matt Church
U of L

[Scott]

Grayson will be coming with either 2 or 3 teams.

[SoLegit12]

It's for novice tournaments: the sum of the grade levels of your team members must be less than 40. And I thought Bowling Green State University's tournament was going to be that day. That's only half an hour or so farther than Louisville, and I'd prefer to play against Ohioans if the sets are comprable.

By the way, since my signature doesn't seem to be working, I'm Joe Nutter, Walnut Hills '11.

it's IS

[Church51907]

Hope everyone is doing well. For our spring tournament, we did rebracketing for the first time and, other than conflict with Thunder over Louisville, thought it went well. If there are no objections, we are going to use that for our fall tournaments as well and forego our previous single elimination format in the afternoons. Let me know if you all agree?
Matt Church
U of L

[Coach K]

Hope everyone is doing well. For our spring tournament, we did rebracketing for the first time and, other than conflict with Thunder over Louisville, thought it went well. If there are no objections, we are going to use that for our fall tournaments as well and forego our previous single elimination format in the afternoons. Let me know if you all agree?
Matt Church
U of L

That sounds great Matt. I'm definitely in favor of rebracketing.

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

Hope everyone is doing well. For our spring tournament, we did rebracketing for the first time and, other than conflict with Thunder over Louisville, thought it went well. If there are no objections, we are going to use that for our fall tournaments as well and forego our previous single elimination format in the afternoons. Let me know if you all agree?
Matt Church
U of L

Not being single elimination is good. Would there then be ACF finals based on results within the brackets?

[Church51907]

We would actually just use the records in pools to determine place. Of course, there could always be a tiebreaker match.
Matt Church
U of L

[djones]

Matt,
Please reserve a spot for Northmont to play at your event on November 20. Let me know if there is any paperwork I need to complete to officially register.
Thanks!
David

[Church51907]

Will do David? How many teams do you all want to bring down?
Matt Church
U of L

[djones]

Right now, just one team for Northmont. I may be able to round up a second, but that will depend upon how our recruiting drive for new students goes once school starts. I will let you know if that number changes.

[Church51907]

Field Update. As of now, the field is as follows

Danville A
Danville B
Fleming County A
Fleming County B
Fleming County C (Possible)
Grayson County A
Grayson County B
Grayson County C (Possible)
Northmont A
Simon Kenton A
Simon Kenton B
Simon Kenton C (Possible)

I will be sending out the registration form in the next two weeks and setting the entry fee., Tentatively, the field will be limited to 32 until I hear from the university regarding space availability.
Matt

[Church51907]

Hope everyone is well and the semester has started well. I will be sending out the registration forms next week for our tournament on the 20th of November. All the best.
Matt Church
University of Louisville

[Church51907]

Hope everyone is well. I wanted to post the most recent field update for the U of L Academic Challenge

Adair County A
Adair County B
Ballard A
Danville A
Danville B
Dunbar A
Dunbar B
Dunbar C
Edmonson County
Fleming County A
Fleming County B
Grayson County A
Grayson County B
Mercy Academy A
Mercy Academy B
Northmont
Simon Kenton A
Simon Kenton B

Also, there is a chance that Ballard B, Fleming County C, Grayson County C, and Simon Kenton C could be added. If you would like to participate, please e-mail me at [email protected]

All the best.
Matt Church
U of L

[Church51907]

Here is a field update. Currently we have 29 teams and the field will be capped at 30, due to space accomodations. If anything has changed with your entries please let me know.

Current Field
Northmont A
Grayson County A
Grayson County B
Danville A
Danville B
Fleming County A
Fleming County B
Simon Kenton A
Simon Kenton B
Adair County A
Adair County B
Ballard A
Dunbar A
Dunbar B
Dunbar C
Edmondson County
Mercy A
Mercy B
Owensboro
Pikeville A
Pikeville B
Pikeville C
Pikeville D
St. X
Trinity a
Trinity B
Eastern
Walnut Hills A
Walnuts Hills B

All the Best
Matt Church
University of Louisville

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

St. X

As in, from Cincinnati? Or is there one in Kentucky too?

[SoLegit12]

St. X

As in, from Cincinnati? Or is there one in Kentucky too?

There is one in Louisville

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

St. X

As in, from Cincinnati? Or is there one in Kentucky too?

There is one in Louisville

That makes much more sense. Thanks.

[Scott]

The field for this tournament is shaping up very nicely.
I am excited to see how we compare to the teams that are attending...
I'm hoping for HSNCT qualification, but there are plenty of good teams here.
It'll also be nice to see how the Ohio teams match up against Dunbar.

Are you using semi-seeded pools with re-bracketing into new pools, like last year's spring tournament?
5 groups of 6 redone into 6 groups of 5 would probably work well.

[Church51907]

I found another room and the field will now be capped at 32. The last three spots were taken by Manual. If anyone wants to be on the wait list, please e-mail me at [email protected]. The field is now
Northmont A
Grayson County A
Grayson County B
Danville A
Danville B
Fleming County A
Fleming County B
Simon Kenton A
Simon Kenton B
Adair County A
Adair County B
Ballard A
Dunbar A
Dunbar B
Dunbar C
Edmondson County
Mercy A
Mercy B
Owensboro
Pikeville A
Pikeville B
Pikeville C
Pikeville D
St. X
Trinity a
Trinity B
Eastern
Walnut Hills A
Walnuts Hills B
Manual A
Manual B
Manual C

All the best
Matt Church
U of L

[Scott]

I'd like to see this tournament use the card system if you have 32 teams, like Wright State did last year. It is great for letting teams play other teams of a similar caliber.

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

I'd like to see this tournament use the card system if you have 32 teams, like Wright State did last year. It is great for letting teams play other teams of a similar caliber.

I would not. While the card system is the only viable option for an HSNCT-sized field, many people don't even like it there, and for a smaller field with fewer rounds it doesn't work very well. Last year at Wright State several strong teams did not even make it into the championship bracket, and several weak ones did. Seeded pools with the top 2 advancing into a championship bracket, followed by ACF finals is a better way of ensuring the top teams do well.

[Church51907]

Scott, thanks for the suggestion, but I think with the tournament being this early in the season, we will stick with pools and rebracketing. The rebracketing will allow teams to play others with the same record. Right now, it looks like it will be 7 prelim matches and 3 rebracketed matches. All the best.
Matt

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

Will math computation questions be removed from this set?

[Church51907]

We will not be removing any questions from the sets.

Matt Church
U of L

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

What time should teams plan to arrive? Do you know what building the tournament will be held in, and where we should meet? Also, you may have done this in the last few days, but my coach, Mr. Grunder, would appreciate an E-mail with the same information, if you don't mind. When I spoke to him last week he said he hadn't received any communication with logistical information. Let me know if you don't still have his address.

[Church51907]

Joe, I am going to send it out today. Your coach should have it by 3
Matt Church
University of Louisville

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

He got it, thanks. I did have a question I wanted to point out though, with the preface that this is your tournament and you're free to run it how you wish. However, in your E-mail that my coach showed me, you stated that you would have four brackets, with each winner playing the other winners in the championship bracket. The problem with this is that it is single-elimination in the preliminary brackets and, by only allowing one team from each bracket to advance, can result in a minor seeding error making (potentially) the second-best team at the tournament finish fifth. Upsets also would have a similar effect. Also, teams that aren't one of the top four there would only get one game against one of the top teams there. I would like to suggest that you instead have two championship brackets of four, each containing two bracket winners and two bracket second-place teams. Where each went could be determined by ppg or ppb, similar to the way it is done at the PACE NSC. These would both play a round-robin, and then there would be a final between the two winners. If you wanted to, you could have crossover games between the other teams, but if scheduling/rooms/moderator availability prevented this they could just be left as ties (second place team from each bracket tie for third, etc.). While this could still be problematic if the two best teams are in the same playoff bracket, at least this way the second-best team would get third, instead of fifth. No more games, rooms, or packets would be necessary, as the 1st flight would be removed, and its teams sent to the playoffs. I think this would be more fair and less prone to having results distorted by seeding errors or upsets. It's your choice whether or not you do this, it's just a suggestion, but I'd bet that there are other people attending who would prefer this besides me. If you would consider doing this but I didn't explain it clearly or something, let me know.

[SoLegit12]

He got it, thanks. I did have a question I wanted to point out though, with the preface that this is your tournament and you're free to run it how you wish. However, in your E-mail that my coach showed me, you stated that you would have four brackets, with each winner playing the other winners in the championship bracket. The problem with this is that it is single-elimination in the preliminary brackets and, by only allowing one team from each bracket to advance, can result in a minor seeding error making (potentially) the second-best team at the tournament finish fifth. Upsets also would have a similar effect. Also, teams that aren't one of the top four there would only get one game against one of the top teams there. I would like to suggest that you instead have two championship brackets of four, each containing two bracket winners and two bracket second-place teams. Where each went could be determined by ppg or ppb, similar to the way it is done at the PACE NSC. These would both play a round-robin, and then there would be a final between the two winners. If you wanted to, you could have crossover games between the other teams, but if scheduling/rooms/moderator availability prevented this they could just be left as ties (second place team from each bracket tie for third, etc.). While this could still be problematic if the two best teams are in the same playoff bracket, at least this way the second-best team would get third, instead of fifth. No more games, rooms, or packets would be necessary, as the 1st flight would be removed, and its teams sent to the playoffs. I think this would be more fair and less prone to having results distorted by seeding errors or upsets. It's your choice whether or not you do this, it's just a suggestion, but I'd bet that there are other people attending who would prefer this besides me. If you would consider doing this but I didn't explain it clearly or something, let me know.

I know I would. Plus it would be more exciting

[Scott]

What Joe described actually happened to us here last year.
We were in a bracket with Manual and Dunbar and ended up placing lower than we should have.
I know that specific example would not have been taken care of by his solution, but I like what he suggested.

It would probably be the best way to go, seeing that there are about ten teams fighting for the top four or five placements.

[Church51907]

Joe, Nick, and Scott, thanks for the suggestions. With the format, I have been telling teams the rebracketing with similar teams would occurr after lunch since last year, so if I would need to e-mail the attending coaches to make sure a possible switch is agreeable. If it is okay with all attending coaches, what I will do is as follows

Have an upper group
Match 1A1 plays B2
Match 2 A2 plays B1
Match 3 C1 plays D2
Match 4 D1 plays C2

then
MAtch 5 winner Match 1 v winner Match 2
Match 6 loser Match 1 v loser Match 2
Match 7 winner match 3 v winner match 4
Match 8 loser match 3 v loser match 4

Match 9 (championship) winner Match 5 v winner Match 7
Match 10 (third) loser Match 5 v loser Match 7
Match 11 (5th) winner Match 6 v winner Match 8
Match 12 (7th) loser macch 6 v loser match 8

does this sound like what you all had in mind?
Matt Church
University of Louisville

[Steeve Ho You Fat]

That'd still be single elimination (if A1 and B2, A2 and B1, etc. are the two best teams there, although this could only happen if there had been significant prelim upsets; its more likely A1 and B1 are the two best teams and one of them is relegated to third, for example), and I think I'd prefer my idea, which would still be rebracketing into brackets with teams of similar skill levels and thereby not contradict your original plan, but I would still much prefer your idea to the previous plan of having only four teams be in the playoffs.