Illinois '09-'10
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Davey und Goliath vill be usingk three part bonuses.
David Riley
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"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
So this includes powers?Shcool wrote:The point values at Kickoffs will be discussed at the Steering Committee Meeting in August. My guess is that we will go with the standard NAQT system except for not subtracting points for negs.
This is on an NAQT IS-A set, right?David Riley wrote:Davey und Goliath vill be usingk three part bonuses.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Probably. Ask again in six weeks if you want a straight answer.Jane Fairfax wrote:So this includes powers?
EDIT: Also, I should have included Masonics before in my list of changing tournaments.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
D & G: Yes, currently I am planning to use an NAQT-A set.
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
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Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Re: Illinois '09-'10
We got the Fall Novice bid for this area, in case are teams/players from the area that lurk. I will be running this as well as Earlybird, for which the announcement has been made. Check it for an update.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
When you say this area. is that all of Illinoiks, or just central Illinlois?
David Riley
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Coach Emeritus, Loyola Academy, Wilmette, Illinois, 1993-2010
Steering Committee, IHSSBCA, 1996 -
Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Re: Illinois '09-'10
Central/Southern. Bettendorf is also using the set, and there will be a Chicago area mirror.David Riley wrote:When you say this area. is that all of Illinoiks, or just central Illinlois?
Re: Illinois '09-'10
I just wanted to point out that what's going on right now in the college section with the VETO discussion has many similarities to the push for good quizbowl in Illinois and the challenges it has faced for the last decade. Because a bunch of people who read this section probably don't follow the college sections, let me offer a bit of summary of what has led up to the thread I linked to. If I get anything wrong in the following, please let me know.
VETO is a summer open in Vancouver (and mirrored elsewhere in Canada). From its inception through last year, it was bad quizbowl in many senses. It had a high proportion of trash, many multimedia questions (not just audio and video; teams were encouraged to include activities for all five senses in their packets, and once a bonus simply required that teams pick up pieces of candy with chopsticks), some unfair rules, and so on. There was also a large proportion of the distribution dedicated to Canadian content, reminiscent of the Illinois-centric categories found in the IHSA series. Questions ranged from one-liners to sixteen-liners, often with no sense of pyramidality (even in the sixteen-liners!).
This year, noted college player and editor Jerry Vinokurov offered to edit packets submitted to him by a certain date. He planned to get rid of inappropriate multimedia questions, eliminate excessive trash, get rid of other generally stupid questions, bring length to a reasonable level from both directions, and so on; he made these intentions clear. A few other American advocates of good quizbowl offered to join him, making their intentions similarly transparent. Most of the teams attending VETO submitted their packets to him, and he and the others edited them, a process which included having to throw out and replace many, many questions. The intended difficulty level was made clear by both the tournament organizers and editors—I think it was DI SCT.
After VETO, lots of the players were really pissed at the changes made. They complained about too-long questions, too-hard questions (even though it was just the lead-ins they were angry about), American intrusion, concealed intentions, and everything else under the sun. This discussion just started yesterday and is still going on, both in the thread I linked above and elsewhere. (Canada has its own private quizbowl discussion places, naturally.)
I'm hoping that some discussions will come from the VETO affair that we in Illinois can learn from and hopefully find helpful as we continue to try to spread good quizbowl. Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
VETO is a summer open in Vancouver (and mirrored elsewhere in Canada). From its inception through last year, it was bad quizbowl in many senses. It had a high proportion of trash, many multimedia questions (not just audio and video; teams were encouraged to include activities for all five senses in their packets, and once a bonus simply required that teams pick up pieces of candy with chopsticks), some unfair rules, and so on. There was also a large proportion of the distribution dedicated to Canadian content, reminiscent of the Illinois-centric categories found in the IHSA series. Questions ranged from one-liners to sixteen-liners, often with no sense of pyramidality (even in the sixteen-liners!).
This year, noted college player and editor Jerry Vinokurov offered to edit packets submitted to him by a certain date. He planned to get rid of inappropriate multimedia questions, eliminate excessive trash, get rid of other generally stupid questions, bring length to a reasonable level from both directions, and so on; he made these intentions clear. A few other American advocates of good quizbowl offered to join him, making their intentions similarly transparent. Most of the teams attending VETO submitted their packets to him, and he and the others edited them, a process which included having to throw out and replace many, many questions. The intended difficulty level was made clear by both the tournament organizers and editors—I think it was DI SCT.
After VETO, lots of the players were really pissed at the changes made. They complained about too-long questions, too-hard questions (even though it was just the lead-ins they were angry about), American intrusion, concealed intentions, and everything else under the sun. This discussion just started yesterday and is still going on, both in the thread I linked above and elsewhere. (Canada has its own private quizbowl discussion places, naturally.)
I'm hoping that some discussions will come from the VETO affair that we in Illinois can learn from and hopefully find helpful as we continue to try to spread good quizbowl. Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Jonah Greenthal
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
That is beautiful.jonah wrote: VETO is a summer open in Vancouver (and mirrored elsewhere in Canada). From its inception through last year, it was bad quizbowl in many senses. It had a high proportion of trash, many multimedia questions (not just audio and video; teams were encouraged to include activities for all five senses in their packets, and once a bonus simply required that teams pick up pieces of candy with chopsticks), some unfair rules, and so on. There was also a large proportion of the distribution dedicated to Canadian content, reminiscent of the Illinois-centric categories found in the IHSA series. Questions ranged from one-liners to sixteen-liners, often with no sense of pyramidality (even in the sixteen-liners!).
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Why make us guess? Who?jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Greg Peterson
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.cornfused wrote:Why make us guess? Who?jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
Jonah Greenthal
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.jonah wrote:I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.cornfused wrote:Why make us guess? Who?jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Y'know, I'm sure plenty of those involved are saying this, but it's just so much easier for me to imagine the Quebecois being the perpetrators of this one (It's OK, I can say that, I'm Canadian)jonah wrote:After VETO, lots of the players were really pissed at the changes made. They complained about too-long questions, too-hard questions (even though it was just the lead-ins they were angry about), American intrusion, concealed intentions, and everything else under the sun.
...You do know this is the Internet, right?mlaird wrote:Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.jonah wrote:I have two possible candidates but little support for either; I'd rather hear others' ideas.cornfused wrote:Why make us guess? Who?jonah wrote:Extra credit for figuring out what Illinois figure corresponds to Charles Meigs in the VETO thread.
But in all seriousness, in the long run, it seems like a good thing for Canada, like Illinois, to get on the "good quizbowl" train. It would be great to see championships turn into truly international formats. Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
BJ Houlding
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
But we're not necessarily talking about people behind their backs, and if we are, it's not because we're doing it secretively. Maybe the people I have in mind read the boards. Also, this is a public forum, and every significant figure in Illinois scholastic bowl is aware of its existence or has the means (it's been mentioned several times in SchoVisions, which they ought to be reading) to be aware of it. They know quizbowl is discussed here; they know Illinois scholastic bowl is discussed here; they are deliberately excluding themselves if they don't read the boards. Oh, and some of them DO read the boards, albeit without posting; we don't know who-all that readership consists of. Finally, I had been under the impression that comparisons were permissible in this forum, since it's in the name and everything.mlaird wrote:Or we could just not compare people to other people, (see: Godwin's Law) and maintain a semblance of congeniality to outsiders by not talking about people behind their backs.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I just want to make something clear right now in case any Canadian teams are reading this, but even though none have attended PACE nationals in the past, there seems to me to be absolutely nothing that should make it unreasonable for a Canadian team to qualify for and attend the NSC any differently than some now go to NAQT nationals. I think the idea of someone arbitrarily deciding which nationals are better for international teams is somewhat poor, and hope nobody thinks PACE is actually trying to exclude anyone.Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor. Making every quiz bowl tournament international would be fun, and I think in the long run encourage better question writing, and force us Americans to learn even more about cultures beyond our borders. Sorry if it come off otherwirseHarper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote:I just want to make something clear right now in case any Canadian teams are reading this, but even though none have attended PACE nationals in the past, there seems to me to be absolutely nothing that should make it unreasonable for a Canadian team to qualify for and attend the NSC any differently than some now go to NAQT nationals. I think the idea of someone arbitrarily deciding which nationals are better for international teams is somewhat poor, and hope nobody thinks PACE is actually trying to exclude anyone.Wouldn't that be a great direction for things to go: PACE being the USA championship, and NAQT developing a strong international flavor?
BJ Houlding
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Actually, last year, both University of Toronto Schools and Woburn Collegiate Institute qualified for the NSC. I hope that this coming year we'll be able to get a Canadian team!
Fred Morlan
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I would argue that PACE questions are more inclusive to Canadians. NAQT has a nontrivial portion of trash, geography, and current events (although fortunately the days of Senator Bowl have died down a bit) that many quizbowlers even within the US don't care about.Dresden The Moderator wrote:Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Noted NAQT vanity subject The Arcade Fire is from Canada!Sir Thopas wrote:I would argue that PACE questions are more inclusive to Canadians. NAQT has a nontrivial portion of trash, geography, and current events (although fortunately the days of Senator Bowl have died down a bit) that many quizbowlers even within the US don't care about.Dresden The Moderator wrote:Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
What, praytell, is this "international flavor?"Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I think it's that NAQT has been able to attract one or two more international teams than PACE, although that's probably a side effect of NAQT's greater fame.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I was under the impression that, at least in the SCT, NAQT always threw in a couple extra questions on Canadian geography or hockey so as to appeal to our friends up north. No idea if this is actually the case, but back during my undergrad days everyone assumed it was.Harper v. Canada (Attorney General) wrote:What, praytell, is this "international flavor?"Of course, of course. I didn't mean to imply anything exclusionary about PACE, just that in the past, NAQT has had more of an international flavor.
Chris White
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
SCT and ICT presently use the same distribution. To my knowledge this has been true for quite some time.Verhoeven's Giant Tree Rat wrote:I was under the impression that, at least in the SCT, NAQT always threw in a couple extra questions on Canadian geography or hockey so as to appeal to our friends up north. No idea if this is actually the case, but back during my undergrad days everyone assumed it was.
We don't have a fixed quota of Canadian content, apart from the small amount of Canadian history.
Numbers:
2009 SCT (416/416):
1/1 hockey
2/1 Canadian history
9/9 North American geography
2003 SCT (560/560):
2/2 hockey
2/2 Canadian history
17/17 North American geography
So yes, we've scaled back the hockey and the geography over the years in response to feedback.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
No.
Last edited by jonah on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Before this sidetrack gets long, let me guess that the last post was a prank not made by Jonah.
Re: Illinois '09-'10
Blargh; apparently I left myself logged in on Jeff's computer.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
awesome.
Jeff Price
Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
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Barrington High School Coach (2021 & 2023 HSNCT Champions, 2023 PACE Champions, 2023 Illinois Masonic Bowl Class 3A State Champions)
Barrington Station Middle School Coach (2013 MSNCT Champions, 2013 & 2017 Illinois Class AA State Champions)
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
ITT: Jeff's poor attempt at espionage.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Okay so lets get back on the discussion this thread was meant for: i.e. ramblings, predics, tourney discussions in October.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Several tournaments have been added, dates changed, etc. I will post a link once things are relatively settled.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I didn't think there were any more weekends to hand around.David Riley wrote:Several tournaments have been added
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
There aren't per se, but remember we have competing tournaments on the same day in the same region(s) now.
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
BUT THAT IS MY LEGACY.Shcool wrote:Scobol Solo will not have Pop Culture
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
This way, nobody can repeat your feats. Years from now, people will ask, "Who was Nick Matchen, and how did he know so damn much about the Disney Channel?"Trevkeeper wrote:BUT THAT IS MY LEGACY.Shcool wrote:Scobol Solo will not have Pop Culture
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
What's the latest on a solid schedule?
Also, did anything ever become of all the noise with QU regarding Masonics?
Also, did anything ever become of all the noise with QU regarding Masonics?
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
The most up-to-date schedule is this pdf.
There was no real back-and-forth with the Masons. They announced their changes two or three months ago, and everything will happen like they said it will.
There was no real back-and-forth with the Masons. They announced their changes two or three months ago, and everything will happen like they said it will.
Re: Illinois '09-'10
That's not quite the most up-to-date schedule. I guess most people don't know this, but Saint Viator will be hosting a mirror of the Fall Novice Set on September 26th (only day we could get at the school, sorry) called the Septemberist. It will be a JV tournament. Invites and more info will go out around Labor Day.Shcool wrote:The most up-to-date schedule is this pdf.
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT
Re: Illinois '09-'10
It's also missing the Illinois mirror of the Fall Novice set, which is on the same date.
Jonah Greenthal
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I've been doing my best to keep this accurate. I think it's up-to-date.Dresden The Moderator wrote:What's the latest on a solid schedule?
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Thanks...I made an announcement in the announcements thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8270jonah wrote:I've been doing my best to keep this accurate. I think it's up-to-date.Dresden The Moderator wrote:What's the latest on a solid schedule?
Could you put the link and my email address in your schedule?
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Dan, did you ever make any progress on the limitations/wordings/etc. of what you're doing for the Septembrist, since it is after the aforementioned 4th and this thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8017 is seemingly dead?
thanks
thanks
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
My apologies, Dan and Donald--I had not yet sent notice of the novice mirror tournaments. Mr. Reinstein has done so and they should appear soon on the IHSSBCA web site and in the next Schlastic Visions.
David Riley
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Member, PACE, 2012 -
"This is 1183, of course we're barbarians" -- Eleanor of Aquitaine in "The Lion in Winter"
Re: Illinois '09-'10
Yes, I hammered out the limitations/wording/etc. with the Fall Novice People. Check out this thread for more info: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8270MoCity02 wrote:Dan, did you ever make any progress on the limitations/wordings/etc. of what you're doing for the Septembrist, since it is after the aforementioned 4th and this thread viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8017 is seemingly dead?
thanks
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT
Re: Illinois '09-'10
Does anyone know if Quinn Rosenthal of WWS is coming back this year?
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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- Wakka
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Since nobody answered this, I did a little bit of research. According to this link: http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/v6 ... roster.htm he was a junior last year. Thus, I would guess that he is returning. I do not remember him from last year's team, as Alex and Ashok did the majority of their scoring. However, it does appear that he had a solid HSNCT. WWS is a good team that seems to be getting ignored in the predictions.FredMorlan wrote:Does anyone know if Quinn Rosenthal of WWS is coming back this year?
On a seperate note, I am curious which teams are going to which tournaments. I expect that we will see the usual suspects (NT, Loyola, Auburn), so I am really curious about other teams. Will Stevenson finally make the jump towards primarily good quizbowl? Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways? Will Barrington, with their influx of talent, finally bring their Varsity teams to good events? Was anybody able to convince people at ACE Camp to explore good quizbowl? I understand that school has not started and many teams will not have these answers, but I will ask for them anyways.
Nicholas Bergeon
Buffalo Grove High School '09
UW-Madison '12
WUSTL Law'15
Buffalo Grove High School '09
UW-Madison '12
WUSTL Law'15
Re: Illinois '09-'10
Dan-Don will not be at Earlybird, so whether St. Viator comes down or not is up in the air. I know Dan-Don wants to play as much good quizbowl as he can, and I hope that he can convince the young'uns to put in work as well.BG MSL Champs wrote:On a seperate note, I am curious which teams are going to which tournaments. I expect that we will see the usual suspects (NT, Loyola, Auburn), so I am really curious about other teams. Will Stevenson finally make the jump towards primarily good quizbowl? Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways? Will Barrington, with their influx of talent, finally bring their Varsity teams to good events? Was anybody able to convince people at ACE Camp to explore good quizbowl? I understand that school has not started and many teams will not have these answers, but I will ask for them anyways.
Re: Illinois '09-'10
The SAT IIs are preventing me from going to Earlybird. Otherwise, I hope to continue going to good tourneys. It remains to be seen whether or not I can convince our coaches to take us to good tournaments. At the very least, I will enter (with some teammates hopefully) most good tournaments under a name like "Arlington Heights Quizbowl Club" (credit goes to Jonah for the name) since most good TDs won't have a problem with that.dtaylor4 wrote:Dan-Don will not be at Earlybird, so whether St. Viator comes down or not is up in the air. I know Dan-Don wants to play as much good quizbowl as he can, and I hope that he can convince the young'uns to put in work as well.BG MSL Champs wrote:Will St. Viator continue to go to good tournaments or will they revert back to their old ways?
Dan Donohue, Saint Viator ('10), Northwestern ('14), NAQT
- Jane Fairfax
- Wakka
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.
If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
Lloyd Sy
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016
- abnormal abdomen
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Re: Illinois '09-'10
Co-sign.Jane Fairfax wrote:I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.
If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
Abid Haseeb
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
Auburn High School '12
Brown University '16
Writer, HSAPQ
Writer, NAQT
- Jane Fairfax
- Wakka
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- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:54 pm
Re: Illinois '09-'10
You should be more original in your comments. LloyBid should be an association of differing but complementary and friendly views.Gabriel Luis Neruda wrote:Co-sign.Jane Fairfax wrote:I hope more teams start coming to good quizbowl events. I know that teams like Richmond Burton went to Loyburn last year and they were pretty happy with the tournament, at least from what I heard their coach saying. Huskie Bowl, run on an HSAPQ set, had a good turnout, as did Decemberist and Winnebago, run on NAQT sets, and NTV, on a tough house-written set. I think many teams are certainly up to going to a few good tournaments a year.
If Deveau goes to Ig, then I hope he can convince them to go to good tournaments, because it'd really be a shame not seeing him, a lock for first team all state, at the best level of competition.
Lloyd Sy
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016
Auburn 2012
Brown 2016