MacSR wrote:Why would my enjoyment of a non-traditional tournament preclude me from enjoying an academic tournament?
It certainly wouldn’t. By the same token that I, for example, enjoy Jeopardy! and Trivial Pursuit, I also thoroughly enjoy fair and academic quizbowl, and I can further understand why you would find non-traditional events enjoyable. But I believe that the main argument here is the notion that, in order for a quizbowl competition to be inherently fair, and thus “quizbowl”, it needs to adhere to a certain set of standards, which includes the basics that we all accept: pyramidality, non-variable value bonuses, set packet distributions, etc. And I posit that, while a non-traditional event could, potentially, be enjoyable for its own sake, a tournament like VETO should maintain these accepted standards in order to truly be deemed a legitimate, inherently fair quizbowl tournament, especially given the current paucity of quizbowl tournaments in Ontario (disregarding attempts at growth for the upcoming season). And at the moment, VETO does not adhere to all these appropriate standards, due to its inclusion of the “gimmickry” mentioned throughout this thread.
MacSR wrote:I don't think that VETO should be turned into a cookie-cutter academic tournament. For myself I like the idea of an academic tournament with a bit of a whimsical streak during the summer. For me...well..it just fits the relaxed mood of the season.
Indeed, summer tournaments are a good time for experimentation, and innovation, perhaps through some whimsicality, can be explored at VETO. However, I believe the thought here is that, while providing a good opportunity to try things that wouldn’t normally be tried during “cookie-cutter academic tournament(s)”, such as multimedia bonuses, VETO should still maintain that one important dogma of quizbowl: fairness. And “gustatory”, “olfactory”, and “tactile” bonuses, in addition to the lack of editing in previous years, are among the things that prevent this, and should, if the legitimacy of the tournament is to be maintained, be eliminated.
Also, I think we all agree that tournaments that contain this fairness and legitimacy are certainly a lot of fun. As you and Chris said:
MacSR wrote:First of all, I've enjoyed every tournament I've been to, and I enjoy competitiveness and yes, even a little pressure- whether its being a hockey goalie or NAQT Sectional tournaments.
DumbJaques wrote:...when I go to tournaments, I enjoy hanging out with people I rarely get to see, playing on questions, etc.
And I think we can also all agree that an inherently fair academic tournament can be just as enjoyable as the practices you described:
MacSR wrote:We have fun at practice , we joke around and chirp each other, we enjoy each other's company. And you know what? We're also competitive in practice.
Having fun at practice doesn’t preclude having fun at fair tournaments. A tournament becomes fun, not through “gimmickry”, especially gimmickry whose resultant effect is unfairness, but rather through the opportunity to “have fun”, “joke around”, enjoy the company of other Ontario quizbowlers, catch up, learn some new things, and “relax”. So I hope, as I’m sure many other Ontario quizbowlers do, that this tournament will abandon such practices, and be legitimately fair while at the same time being a lot of fun, and a great opportunity to relax and catch up during the summer.
And at Guelph, we too “have fun at practice”, “joke around”, and “enjoy each other’s company”. Heck, we practice for more than six hours a week, enjoy learning new stuff, and couldn’t be more excited to go to each and every tournament. And we’re not nearly as successful as McMaster has been this past season (congratulations again, by the way). I think we had a combined winning percentage around .200, and yet we respect the validity of fair quizbowl, and embrace the opportunity that it provides to improve and become more competitive around the circuit. And the main reason for that is that quizbowl is fun: it’s not fun because I get to pick up gobstoppers with chopsticks, it’s fun because I get to interact and compete with like-minded people who enjoy learning new things and bolstering our collective cultural literacy.
And Sameer, don’t mistake what I say as anything less than utmost respect for McMaster’s program: you guys have done a lot to introduce good quizbowl in Ontario, through things like ACF events and a general attitude in favour of traveling and hosting more tournaments, and we look forward to working closely with McMaster in the future to further these sort of things. In addition to that, you’ve trounced Guelph on multiple occasions; but I encourage you not to confuse fun with “gimmickry”, and instead embrace a format that encourages fairness. And more importantly, let’s hope VETO can become a tournament that simultaneously embraces fairness, competition, relaxation, fun, and innovation.