MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Old college threads.
Locked
Ringil
Rikku
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:46 am

MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ringil »

This is the announcement for the UVA/UMich collaboration named the Missiles of October or MOO. There will be a total of 14 packets and the distribution per packet will be:

4/4 Literature
4/4 History
4/4 Science
3/3 Art (1/1 Painting, 1/1 Music, 1/1 Other Arts)
3/3 RMP (1/1 each)
1/1 SS
1/1 Trash/Geo/Your Choice (with at least 0/1 or 1/0 being Geo)

We intend this tournament to be at that legendary "regular" difficulty. All questions will around 8 lines long and there will be powers. In order to facilitate this set being very polished and copy-edited, we intend to finish writing the tournament around a month before the first mirror. It is currently around 45% completed.

It will hopefully be mirrored throughout the nation on either 10/1/2011 or 10/8/2011. This is the list of current mirrors:
See post below.

Contact Bryan Berend at bryanbe at umich dot edu if you're interested in mirroring or just have any questions.
Last edited by Ringil on Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:48 am, edited 5 times in total.
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09
User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Ringil wrote:We intend this tournament to be at that legendary "regular" difficulty. All questions will around 8 lines long and there will be powers.
8 lines in all tossups: notably not the standard "regular" tossup length.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Ringil
Rikku
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:46 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ringil »

College Park Spyders wrote:
Ringil wrote:We intend this tournament to be at that legendary "regular" difficulty. All questions will around 8 lines long and there will be powers.
8 lines in all tossups: notably not the standard "regular" tossup length.
We've now made 8 lines the maximum length of a tossup. Many tossups will be shorter than this.
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

Hello all,

I just want to provide everyone with more information on this tournament.

Rounds: There will be a total of 14 rounds, two of which will be reserved for the finals.

Progress Thus Far: We are currently about 70% done with the tournament and are on track to finishing it by the beginning of September, leaving us about a month to extensively edit.

Distribution (per round):

Literature: 4/4
American Literature: 1/1
British Literature: 1/1
European Literature: 1/1
World Literature: 1/1

History: 4/4
American History: 1/1
World History: 1/1
British, Canadian, and Australian History: 1/0 or 0/1 (the majority of this will be British)
European History, Ancient to 1516 C.E.: 1/0 or 0/1
European History, 1517 to 1900: 1/0 or 0/1
European History, 1901 to present: 1/0 or 0/1

Science: 4/4
Biology: 1/1
Physics: 1/1
Organic Chemistry: 1/0 or 0/1
Non-organic Chemistry: 1/0 or 0/1
Math and Computer Science: 1/0 or 0/1
Astronomy and Earth Science: 1/0 or 0/1

Fine Arts: 3/3
Painting: 1/1
Non-opera Music: 1/1
Other: 1/1

Religion, Mythology, Philosophy: 3/3 (1/1 of each)

Social Science, Geography, Trash, Current Events, Other: 2/2
Social Science: 1/1
Geography: 1/0 or 0/1
Trash, Current Events, Other: 1/0 or 0/1 (There will be a maximum of 4/4 Trash)


Tossup Length: All tossups will be at least six full lines (in ten point TNR) and a max of eight full lines. The average length will be around seven full lines or even a little longer.

Tossup Difficulty: We are aiming for the mythical "normal" difficulty. The two finals packets will probably have a few more harder tossups, but shouldn't be a huge step up in difficulty.

Bonus Difficulty: We are working very hard to ensure that all our bonuses have distinct easy, middle, and hard parts. I believe the conversion rates we are hoping to see are around 90%, 50%, and 15%. Top teams should probably get around 21-23 ppb.

Tournament Availability: Tournament directors will decide whether or not open teams / non-collegiate teams can play.

Mirrors:

Northeast: Harvard University, October 8th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12054)
Mid-Atlantic: University of Virginia, October 8th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11811)
Southeast: Georgia Tech University, October 1st (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12012)
Lower South:
West Coast: Claremont Colleges, October 9th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12096)
North: University of Minnesota, October 15th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12068)
Midwest: University of Michigan, October 8th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11739)
Lower Midwest: Rock Bridge High School, October 1st (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11734)
Northwest: University of Washington, October 22nd (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12151)
Canada: McMaster University, October 15th (Link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12117)
International: Manchester? (would use part of the set for a quads-format)

Again, please email me at bryanbe AT umich DOT edu with any questions.
Last edited by itsthatoneguy on Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:57 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

Georgia Tech and Alabama have both expressed interest hosting this tournament. Also, Manchester may using some of the rounds for a quarter-type format.

We are still looking for a mirror in the northeast, west coast, and Canada, so if you are interested please shoot me an email at bryanbe AT umich DOT edu.

EDIT: Manchester, not Oxford
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

The Alabama mirror has been cancelled due the proximity of the Georgia Tech. mirror. Allowing both schools to host was primarily my fault as I did not realize the two campuses are only about a 3 hour drive away from each other.

Sorry for any confusion or inconvenience this may have caused.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
Ringil
Rikku
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:46 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ringil »

If anyone would be interested in hosting this in the Northeast or the West coast, please send an email to bryanbe AT umich DOT edu pretty soon. (Also, the set is almost done, somewhere around 50 total questions left)
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

Claremont College has expressed interest hosting this in the West Coast region. Also, both NYU and Harvard have expressed interest in hosting this in the Northeast. More details to come.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

Harvard gets the Northeast mirror. Announcement will be posted shortly.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
User avatar
Ondes Martenot
Tidus
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Troy, N.Y.

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ondes Martenot »

Is the Harvard mirror on the 1st or 8th?
Aaron Cohen, Bergen County Academies '08, RPI '12, NYU-???, NAQT writer, HSAPQ writer, PACE writer
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

Ondes Martenot wrote:Is the Harvard mirror on the 1st or 8th?
Ist
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
Magister Ludi
Tidus
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:57 am
Location: Washington DC
Contact:

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Magister Ludi »

itsthatoneguy wrote:
Ondes Martenot wrote:Is the Harvard mirror on the 1st or 8th?
Ist
I think we ended up deciding to host it on the 8th if thats not a problem
Ted Gioia - Harvard '12
Editor ACF, PACE
Ringil
Rikku
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:46 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ringil »

Magister Ludi wrote:
itsthatoneguy wrote:
Ondes Martenot wrote:Is the Harvard mirror on the 1st or 8th?
Ist
I think we ended up deciding to host it on the 8th if thats not a problem
That should be fine.
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09
Ringil
Rikku
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:46 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Ringil »

For anyone who is for sure not playing the set, I'll be running some IRC playtesting for the science I'm editing (physics+chem) on Thursday 9/15 10pm EST, 7pm PST.It'll be in channel #moo on slashnet. I'll probably do something similar for the history I'm editing on Sunday 9/18 or something.
Libo
Washington '14, Michigan '13, Troy High School '09
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

The West Coast mirror has been announced (link: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12096). Also, McMaster has is planning on hosting as well.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
kdroge
Wakka
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:22 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by kdroge »

From what Libo told me, playtesting so far has been sparsely attended. Hopefully, this is because everyone is planning on playing MOO. Anyways, I will be hosting playtesting tomorrow, Tuesday, 9/20, at 9pm est in channel #MOO. If you are for sure not playing MOO and would be interested, please join in. I am editing American History, British Literature, Social Science, and Geography, and would be open to going through some or all of those topics depending on demand and time constraints. If you would like to playtest one of those topics, but that time doesn't work for you, feel free to post and I can try to accomodate.
Kurtis Droge
East Lansing 08, Michigan 12, Louisville 17
User avatar
itsthatoneguy
Rikku
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by itsthatoneguy »

To all mirrors:

Please make out checks to "Bryan Berend" and send them to the following address:

1022 S. Forest, Apt. 4
Ann Arbor, MI 48104

The mirror fee is $30 per team.
Bryan Berend
Detroit Catholic Central '09
Michigan '13
Urech hydantoin synthesis
Tidus
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Urech hydantoin synthesis »

About when will this set be posted?
Ben Zhang

Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell '23
Columbia University '18
Ladue Horton Watkins HS '14
User avatar
Rufous-capped Thornbill
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

Tommy Tutone 2 wrote:About when will this set be posted?
We're using it for the Team Ohio NASAT tryouts in January, so not for a while.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
User avatar
DumbJaques
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 3084
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by DumbJaques »

We're using it for the Team Ohio NASAT tryouts in January, so not for a while.
Sorry, but should people really have to wait for full public discussion of the set because you want to use it for tryouts in three months? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but this doesn't sound like a normal mirror at all, and there are plenty of sets you could use for tryouts. There's stuff that isn't publicly posted, for instance, but if you absolutely have to use something new it seems like there are several better choices you could make both in terms of difficulty and temporal convenience.

Of course, it's UVA/Michigan's call, but this seems just bizarre to me.
Chris Ray
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
User avatar
Rufous-capped Thornbill
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

DumbJaques wrote:
We're using it for the Team Ohio NASAT tryouts in January, so not for a while.
Sorry, but should people really have to wait for full public discussion of the set because you want to use it for tryouts in three months? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but this doesn't sound like a normal mirror at all, and there are plenty of sets you could use for tryouts. There's stuff that isn't publicly posted, for instance, but if you absolutely have to use something new it seems like there are several better choices you could make both in terms of difficulty and temporal convenience.

Of course, it's UVA/Michigan's call, but this seems just bizarre to me.
Not that I disagree that waiting 3 months for a public discussion isn't ideal, but could you point me towards these sets that you refer to as plentiful (and that also come close to NASAT/regular difficulty) and closer to our January 8th tryout date? I pretty much only see TIT, and there are enough questions about that tournament (mainly the fact that its proposed date has already proven wildly unpopular) that I'm not comfortable trying to use it if it might not even be produced.

I don't want to impede discussion at all, I just want to ensure that we have a tryout that is free of cheating, as we've found that high schoolers are wont to do. But if Michigan/UVA does want public discussion sooner rather than later, that's fine too.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
User avatar
DumbJaques
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 3084
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by DumbJaques »

I pretty much only see TIT, and there are enough questions about that tournament (mainly the fact that its proposed date has already proven wildly unpopular) that I'm not comfortable trying to use it if it might not even be produced.
Actually, that's not really accurate - the December date was mainly an issue with a number of players interested in playing BARGE (but in most cases not Terrapin), so BARGE was moved to a different date. But I guess I should defer in matters of collegiate quizbowl futurology to noted expert Jarret Greene. . . Sure, TIT has a full announcement with registered teams, people have submitted packets to the same editors who put together last year's set, and the tournament has happened pretty much every year dating back to before either of us were alive. But given Jarret's extensive experience editing and organizing collegiate tournaments, I'm confident he's simply seen through this clever charade to discern the truth: this year's TIT must assuredly be a big practical joke to get quizbowl to show up to an empty room.

Really though, if the plan was to use TIT instead I'd certainly encourage the editors not to embargo discussion of that set for a month either. I'm not aware of any other groups organizing NASAT tryouts needing to do this, and it's definitely not necessary, but if that's what the MOO team wants to see happen with their tournament discussion, well, they're free to do what they want.
Chris Ray
OSU
University of Chicago, 2016
University of Maryland, 2014
ACF, PACE
User avatar
Cheynem
Sin
Posts: 6825
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 11:19 am
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Cheynem »

Couldn't you use the MOO set or Collegiate Novice or whatever and just tell interested people not to look at the packets beforehand? It's pretty pathetic to cheat at a national tryout and anyway I assume the people running the tryout have enough knowledge to know if some jerk from Dubuque wanders in and puts up 300 PPG but hasn't gone over 9 PPG elsewhere. Anyway if high schoolers (a superstitious, cowardly lot) want to cheat, they will with or without packets being made public, so I think with some judicious instructions from the people running the tryouts, the set can be publicly discussed and still be used at tryouts.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota

"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
User avatar
Auroni
Auron
Posts: 3107
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: Urbana

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Auroni »

Mike is correct. At the very least, only a subset of questions from the set have been discussed here and not even VCU Open has been posted on the archive, so there's no ready access to the set per se.
Auroni Gupta
UIUC
ACF
User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5640
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Columbia, MO

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I don't care either way about this particular set, but I do in fact think that Amit cheating at PACE and NASAT proved you absolutely cannot trust high schoolers as a group to not cheat when the opportunity presents itself, and that the utmost caution should be maintained, especially when it's for something as important as a tryout to see who makes the team for a national all-star tournament, rather than delusionally telling those hosts "just make sure the high schoolers know not to read that set!"
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
User avatar
Rufous-capped Thornbill
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

DumbJaques wrote:
I pretty much only see TIT, and there are enough questions about that tournament (mainly the fact that its proposed date has already proven wildly unpopular) that I'm not comfortable trying to use it if it might not even be produced.
Actually, that's not really accurate - the December date was mainly an issue with a number of players interested in playing BARGE (but in most cases not Terrapin), so BARGE was moved to a different date. But I guess I should defer in matters of collegiate quizbowl futurology to noted expert Jarret Greene. . . Sure, TIT has a full announcement with registered teams, people have submitted packets to the same editors who put together last year's set, and the tournament has happened pretty much every year dating back to before either of us were alive. But given Jarret's extensive experience editing and organizing collegiate tournaments, I'm confident he's simply seen through this clever charade to discern the truth: this year's TIT must assuredly be a big practical joke to get quizbowl to show up to an empty room.

Really though, if the plan was to use TIT instead I'd certainly encourage the editors not to embargo discussion of that set for a month either. I'm not aware of any other groups organizing NASAT tryouts needing to do this, and it's definitely not necessary, but if that's what the MOO team wants to see happen with their tournament discussion, well, they're free to do what they want.
The issue of the BARGE date was that it was near a lot of schools' finals and HS tournament host dates, and thus people would not be able to play a quizbowl event that weekend. As I am not an expert as you pointed out, I could of course be wrong, but it just seemed to me to be a date that was not popular, regardless of what tournament was being held that day, not just BARGE. As for the TIT announcement, I must have the wrong internet, as the thread I am seeing for it contains zero registered teams and one received packet. There is also no information about mirrors, which I know is preventing OSU from writing a packet (even though we can't go to anything on 12/3/11 because--you guessed it--finals).

I wasn't trying to call TIT a joke or whatever it is you seem to think I meant, just that there are questions about it and that I was not willing to use one set with questions over one that has already been produced. But I do realize that asking quizbowl to wait 3 months to publicly discuss MOO is unreasonable, so I'm perfectly fine taking Mike's suggestion and just telling potential All-Stars to just be honest and not look at the set, if that's what works best for everyone
else.
Sorry for all of this, MOO folks. Feel free to post the set and open disucssion.
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
User avatar
theMoMA
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5796
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:00 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by theMoMA »

Jarret, the Collegiate Novice set is available and won't be released to the general public. I don't believe that any high schoolers in Ohio worked on the set, either.
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum
User avatar
Rufous-capped Thornbill
Tidus
Posts: 719
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by Rufous-capped Thornbill »

theMoMA wrote:Jarret, the Collegiate Novice set is available and won't be released to the general public. I don't believe that any high schoolers in Ohio worked on the set, either.
That could work. Can I get a look at it?
Jarret Greene
South Range '10 / Ohio State '13 / Vermont '17
User avatar
theMoMA
Forums Staff: Administrator
Posts: 5796
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:00 am

Re: MOO - 10/1 or 10/8

Post by theMoMA »

Inkana7 wrote:
theMoMA wrote:Jarret, the Collegiate Novice set is available and won't be released to the general public. I don't believe that any high schoolers in Ohio worked on the set, either.
That could work. Can I get a look at it?
Sure, send me an email ([email protected]).
Andrew Hart
Minnesota alum
Locked