In the interest of clarifying things, I've made a few comments on most of the points made above.
Great Bustard wrote:Beyond what people have already mentioned, I can guarantee you that the number of people who have connections to a community who actively are on Facebook in any given day (and are thus in a position better to access the Facebook group page) is higher than those who check the forums every day. Also, the ability to send out last minute reminders, tag people, chat with people online, and have a free form discussion is better suited for Facebook than the forums. That's not to say that the forums shouldn't be used for area discussions, but rather that Facebook can complement them. The California Facebook groups are testament to this. There's no reason that if they work there they can't also work for DC (especially since the growth and development of quiz bowl in both Northern and Southern California in the past 3-5 years stands in marked contrast to the stagnation in the DC area) although of course, if there's pressure from certain quarters to avoid doing so, that's a pretty surefire way to ensure this won't happen.
Okay, sure, Facebook has some features that the forums don't have. On the other hand, making a forums account requires arguably less effort (and personal information) than making a Facebook account, and the forums already have competent moderators who know how to keep productive discussion going. That being said--you keep mentioning being "shouted down" and, now, receiving "pressure from certain quarters" to give up this idea--can you be specific on what, exactly, people said, and how they said it? Was it just "I think this is unnecessary and also why are you doing this" or was it "[vituperative personal attack]"?
Great Bustard wrote:See my response to Cody. And if you really want an answer here, it's about 8 in my active playing career, and off the top of my head, 13 since 2010 which are non-NHBB related. Nor do I see the point in disambiguating NHBB from quizbowl here either. Why should it matter if it were 0? NHBB is sufficient in and of itself.
I'm not sure what your response is, since you directed me to another response of yours above, so let me direct your point regarding NHBB and quizbowl to my response to the quote immediately following the next one.
Great Bustard wrote:Right now, you're absolutely correct that it serves no purpose - also, calling this "my" DC group is misleading - it's no more my group than saying that for whoever started the NorCal or SoCal FB pages, those groups are "theirs". If someone wants to delete the DC group page, fine with me, though I'd prefer people (won't be me this time) run with the idea and put it to good use. I haven't tried to use it since I tried to launch it since obviously if no one's going to gravitate to it, there's no value in it. But as long as efforts to explain the value of a Facebook group (which many in this thread are agreeing with me on, and the California groups stand as evidence in support of) are considered "pontificating", then I'm going to put my organizing efforts in elsewhere.
Of course it's "your" DC group! You're the one who created it (unilaterally, without asking anybody if this was a good idea), you're the current and only admin, you've made fully one half of the posts in the group--it's hard to say whom the group could belong to otherwise. Possibly, quite possibly, the reason why people aren't gravitating to that group isn't that you're being repressed or shouted down, it's because you had a failure in advertising (the number of people who even knew about this group's existence up until a few days ago was barely more than the group's rather small membership) or perhaps this region simply does not need a Facebook group at this time.
Great Bustard wrote:1. I've directed five years running in DC / Arlington one of the largest quizbowl events of the year (and yes, for this purpose, NHBB is totally quizbowl - the use of buzzers & pyramidal questions combined with the overlap between teams, coaches, buzzer systems used, community involvement from writers and volunteers, etc. is testament to that) anywhere, along with the 2013 National History Bowl MS Nationals.
Nobody in this thread has questioned whether or not NHBB is quizbowl. NHBB is an event very similar to quizbowl if not already within that description, but it doesn't really do to tout the expansion of an event that you personally are drawing income from as an example of your outreach / expansion credentials. When you show up to a History Bowl event, you are doing your job and drawing a certain amount of revenue for doing so. 13 non-NHBB events since 2010 (events at which you were presumably volunteering without expectation of pay, and promoting the expansion of an event not affiliated with one of your moneymaking enterprises) is a number that a lot of other people who are actually from the region could easily surpass, including probably myself.
If we're going to be discussing NHBB's relevance to quizbowl in this thread, then: NHBB hasn't strengthened regional circuits so much as it created new ones.
Great Bustard wrote:2. I have lived there since 2013, and have been one of the most active people in the national community since 2010 which more than gives me standing to help start something like this. Prior to living in the area, I took (and still take) a role in support of quiz bowl in New Jersey (where I used to live), and had already more than tangential connections to DC quiz bowl, so why should there have been a supposition that I shouldn't have
Repeating what I said in my earlier post in this thread: you've lived in DC since 2013, the same year that you started the Facebook group and tried to assert your authority as a regional leader. Citing your move-in date might be helpful today, if you were starting something right now, but for this specific occasion I remain unconvinced. Once again: how does a few months of living in DC give you the "standing to help start something like this"?
Being active in the national community doesn't necessarily qualify oneself to do these things in any particular region, too--think how odd it would be if Eric Mukherjee were to suddenly declare his grand idea for supporting DC-area quizbowl despite spending most of his recent quizbowl career in Pennsylvania.
Great Bustard wrote:3. I have volunteered at numerous area events (including Centennial tournaments, and various events at Maryland, Charter, Maggie Walker, Georgetown Day, and PACE NSC). Granted, this was more common for me back when I wasn't constantly traveling in support of NHBB/IHBB but am still eager to volunteer at area events as time permits.
NHBB started off in 2010, and I have it on good authority that you have not volunteered at a Maggie Walker event since at least that year. I cannot speak to the other locations / events. That being said: you've allegedly volunteered at local events, and are willing to appear at more when you can take time off of your busy schedule? Why, with the justifications you've cited, someone as inexperienced as I could easily have done what you did.
Great Bustard wrote:4. DC area events borrow buzzers I own all the time free of charge.
I am sure that those events which you have aided in this manner are grateful.
Great Bustard wrote:5. I have personal working relationships with well over a dozen area coaches, and have had so since before I moved there.
I, too, know various local coaches, and can contact others through e-mail.
Great Bustard wrote:6. Even for areas I don't live in (like Northern and Southern California), I actively use the Facebook pages there to everyone's benefit to help coordinate on matters of scheduling, buzzer loans, recruiting, and general advice giving.
That's great?
Great Bustard wrote:7. NHBB has run, and I have often attended, 3-6 area regional tournaments for each of the past 3 years, combined with regionals in the area dating back to 2011. And yes, just as these are germane to discussion on these forums, they're also germane to discussion on a Facebook group page.
You're bringing up another argument that nobody here was making. Nobody questions whether or not NHBB events are "germane to discussion anywhere," and I believe I made my point above on citing history events as part of one's quizbowl community credentials.
Great Bustard wrote:8. Everyone agrees the DC circuit is in need of greater outreach efforts, and Facebook can be a good organizing tool for such. Is shouting down someone who tries to encourage this process really helping matters?
For a final time--I see no "shouting down," I see multiple allegations that people have been doing this and a number of posts discussing whether or not quizbowl on social media is a good thing (and, if so, what forms are best).