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Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:18 pm
by It's Drew
Your one-stop shop for all your Indiana quiz bowl team comparison and discussion needs, especially with respect to the large influx of new schools and teams we expect to get thanks to the IASP partnering with NAQT. I'll be paying attention to tournament results throughout the year, and will probably post my analysis in this thread.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:48 pm
by JusRule
Hey Drew, I come from Carmel High School in Carmel, Indiana, and I'm interested in hosting a tournament at my school. We revamped our team last year once again after we found the funds and support to sustain a club like us, and I'd like to know whether you have any advice for hosting a tournament.

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Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 pm
by It's Drew
Hi! I was considering PMing you this answer, but I figured we may see several high schools hosting tournaments this year, so I wanted to make this information public in case they stumble upon this thread.

In terms of planning, good praxis would be to decide on a date and fees very early into the process. You'd like to give other teams plenty of time to sign up in order to make sure you get a good turnout and can guarantee your players a good, full day of quiz bowl. You also won't want to make prices oppressively high, but still make a solid profit off the tournament so your own club can go to events. NAQT's deal to make hosting free for any high school will help immensely with respect to fee structure, since the packets are often the most expensive part of running a tournament.

Make sure that the date you select doesn't coincide with any other large events, like Solo & Ensemble or one of the other IASP academic competition finals. This is less important for invitational tournaments, but making players choose between their extracurriculars sucks, and they'll almost always pick the one that isn't quiz bowl.

One option for your team would be to snatch the Indianapolis area bid for the IASP regionals. Since your team is already on the IASP confirmation list, you're already eligible to host one of the sites.

Either way, in order to get the word out about your tournament, you should work out the details of the tournament and then email the IASP's director of student programs, as well as Ben Dillon (the guy who runs inqblots.org in addition to Saint Joseph's quiz bowl team). If your tournament is after the start of the White River Academic League season, you can also spread info by word of mouth.

I think that's all I have to say about the logistics of getting a tournament up and running. If you have additional questions about prelim and playoff structure, PM me with your specific situation and I'll lend my advice.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:06 pm
by It's Drew
Oh, forgot to add this, but depending on our schedule, Purdue will try to send a few moderators to nearby tournaments to help ensure that players have a good experience with their readers.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:44 pm
by Ben Dillon
Hmmm... I've stumbled on to this thread :)

Both NAQT and PACE want to help Indiana out this year, and it appears that NAQT has a nice partnership with IASP that will involve some perks. (See www.iasp.org)

I'm in the middle of other stuff right now... I'll get back to y'all!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:57 pm
by It's Drew
Replying to this just to note: the IASP has a publicly-available list of teams that have signed up for their quiz bowl program this year.

Excitingly, we have quite a few schools on this list that didn't have a team last year, and a couple with no history in quiz bowl at all - not just pyramidal quiz bowl, but quiz bowl in general. It's still extremely early (as the PDF notes, the IASP accepts entries up until November 22, so there are still three months for more schools to sign up), but this is a pretty strong start.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:50 pm
by JusRule
The interest in Quiz Bowl this year seems great, I think we may have a decent turnout, I was planning to have the tournament sometime after the IASP Regionals but before the actual state finals, though we could also try planning it before Regionals. Can you elaborate on how exactly logistics work and stuff? Like how much money would we need, and how do I divide up roles between the other officers in order to make preparations? I don't have any experience with questions like these, so an idea would help.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:00 am
by It's Drew
JusRule wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:50 pm
I was planning to have the tournament sometime after the IASP Regionals but before the actual state finals, though we could also try planning it before Regionals.
Funny enough, Purdue has been having trouble scheduling both SCOP Novice and the Boilermaker Buzzathon this year, and I had been suggesting to host the Buzzathon between regs and finals. I do think that a pre-state scrimmage would be a good thing, though it shouldn't be restricted to just schools that made state if that's what you plan to do.
JusRule wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:50 pm
Can you elaborate on how exactly logistics work and stuff? Like how much money would we need, and how do I divide up roles between the other officers in order to make preparations? I don't have any experience with questions like these, so an idea would help.
Since you're hosting it relatively late in the year, I imagine you probably want to use the event to fund your club's tournament attendance in the 2020-21 season, or otherwise to help pay off the fees for HSNCT or PACE NSC. In that case, you don't want to make fees trivial. Like I mentioned before, you will get free packets if you use NAQT questions, so you'd be running the tournament for comparatively very little money. (Side note: make sure you don't order the same packet set that gets used at regs or state!!!)

It's pretty tough to really predict how much turnout your tournament will get, but you should at least think about a minimum fee per team. Usually that fee is somewhere up around $100, but again, you don't have to pay for packets (which cost more based on the number of teams attending), and you want a good turnout, so you can set that minimum fee to be lower. From there, you can think about discounts.

Offering a $5 discount for working buzzer systems and $10 for competent moderators is pretty common, I think. Those should be on the total fee per school, not per team. Sending an additional team to a tournament also usually costs less than the first team (e.g. at Brownsburg's Dogfight, the first team is $100 and each additional team is $75).

This is pretty confusing to just place out in front of you, but you can look at the regular season tournament announcements under the high school forum and take notes on their fee structure for your own tournament. That may be more conducive than me (a noted amateur) trying to explain it to you.

With regards to other logistics, someone should make sure you have rooms reserved for competition. Someone (not necessarily the same person) should note how long you have the rooms reserved, and build the tournament schedule with that in mind (hopefully each round should not be more than 45 minutes). Tournaments usually have check-ins start at 8 and games start at 9. Ideally your tournament should guarantee 7 or more rounds of play.

This is all really haphazard and quickly-written, but hopefully you can find some morsel of useful information there. I'm probably not the best tournament-directing mentor you could have sought out.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm
by JusRule
Thanks for the info, you gave a nice concise explanation on how things work here :wink: Hopefully we get a nice turnout, also the thing you brought up with not buying the same packets used at state is a really good point, because I had never actually thought of that, I could have bungled it all up right there.

Anyway, let me get back to you later how things are going and how preparations are.

Thanks

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:39 pm
by It's Drew
Check the High School Regular Season board! Purdue has officially opened registration for two of our high school tournaments:

SCOP Novice: November 16, 2019
Boilermaker Buzzathon (IS 190): January 11, 2020

We hope to see you there!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:40 pm
by It's Drew
Indiana quiz bowl has yet to kick off, but defending state champion Saint Joseph made an appearance at the MSU Fall Kickoff today and finished T-2nd by record. Because Saint Joseph has won the past seven state championship tournaments, yet had one of the biggest rebuilding jobs ahead of them going into this season, I figured it'd be worth something to look at how they did.

They finished the day 7-2 (T-2nd), scoring 333.89 points per game (3rd) and 18.16 points per bonus (2nd). They recorded 34 powers (T-3rd) over the course of the day. Patrick McGreevy, Samuel Thomas, and Max Niebur all scored north of 30 points per game, with Patrick sitting just north of 45.

Some things to consider:
The field at this tournament was not at full strength, with only the undefeated Beavercreek sending their full varsity squad. The two teams that tied with Saint Joseph at 7-2 sent incomplete teams, with Robert Dedvukaj missing from DCC A and Daniel Liu missing from DCD. Considering Robert's performance at the MVS Fall Kickoff, I would wager that Saint Joseph's win over DCC A today would probably have gone the other way if he were there.
However, the packet played (SSNCT-19) seemed to nullify the weaker competition, since Beavercreek's team put up extremely similar numbers at the two tournaments, with the only notable difference being power percentage. Therefore, analyzing by points per game, we can speculate that Saint Joseph would have finished in the championship bracket at the MVS Fall Kickoff.

Conclusion: the rumors of the dynasty's death are greatly exaggerated. They face strong competition this year in the form of Harrison, as well as wild cards Carmel and Culver Academies, but this is still a team that could sneak into the finals at any tournament in Indiana.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:18 pm
by It's Drew
Hi. The Indiana Kick-Off Tournament happened. Congrats to Harrison A for coming out undefeated, and to Saint Joseph A for playing them to a 5-point margin in one of the most intense finals imaginable! I want to go through the noteworthy performances at this tournament.

Harrison A
Can't say this was unexpected, but it is shocking just how dominant Harrison A was at this tournament. I had predicted Song would be one of the top players in the state, but she's already at the level Tomás was his senior year, and presumably continues to improve. Add Evan to that team and you already have one of the best teams in Indiana's recent memory; if Jashun and/or Jack get graduated to varsity later in the year, watch out.

Saint Joseph A
This team led Harrison A by over 100 points going into tossup 18 of the finals before Harrison came back to win it. Yeah, they're pretty good! Oh, and they'll all be back for the 2020-2021 season. This is a team that I can see becoming absolutely monstrously good, comprised of four strong generalists with the capability to become strong specialists. Goodness knows Ben Dillon is capable of turning them into that.

Indiana Academy
One of three schools at this tournament more or less completely new to pyramidal quiz bowl. IASMH quietly rode a pair of extremely close wins against teams with higher points per game and points per bonus to finish 4th in the knockout round, establishing themselves as a team to watch this year as well as a challenger to North White's dominance over the Small School title.

Zionsville A
According to my teammate who went to Zionsville, their entire varsity team graduated and super-sophomore Chris Robinson enrolled in a boarding school, meaning the 2020 Zionsville varsity team would be a collection of players with very little quiz bowl experience. With that in mind, they put up some impressive numbers, and it appears they will skip their "rebuild" altogether and compete again this year.

Warren Central
Another school basically totally new to pyramidal quiz bowl. They had a rocky start (and apparently needed the format explained to them in the first round), but demonstrated good competence and passion once they got into the rhythm of things. We heard from their coach that they greatly enjoyed the format and were excited to play more, which is wonderful.

Tri A and B
The third school totally new to pyramidal. (And to quiz bowl in general!) Tri A and B put up strikingly similar numbers, as if the two teams were each one half of a more competitive varsity team. They've signed up two teams for our mirror of SCOP Novice (November 16!), where I suspect they may surprise a few people.

Overall, I can't do much in terms of ranking because only about half of this year's expected contenders have played so far. However, I'd put Harrison A and Saint Joseph A at a pretty strong 1 and 2, respectively. Exciting to see where this year will take us!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:51 pm
by MahoningQuizBowler
Are any of the schools on the IASP Confirmed list near Fort Wayne or generally in that corner of Indiana? I'm running an event on 185A at Hicksville, Ohio -- just over the border -- and am holding the final spot for an Indiana school if they want to claim it and are new to pyramidal. I contacted IASP to let them know but figured you would have better on-the-ground knowledge.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:14 pm
by It's Drew
MahoningQuizBowler wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:51 pm
Are any of the schools on the IASP Confirmed list near Fort Wayne or generally in that corner of Indiana? I'm running an event on 185A at Hicksville, Ohio -- just over the border -- and am holding the final spot for an Indiana school if they want to claim it and are new to pyramidal. I contacted IASP to let them know but figured you would have better on-the-ground knowledge.
The IASP has not updated its confirmation list since September 17th. I suspected at first that this was because there were no new signups, but I have since realized that none of their confirmation lists have updated since that time, and heard from Harrison that they have signed up since then. There are currently no *edit: Fort Wayne area teams on the confirmation list; however, a few may have cropped up in the area.

Tri Middle-High School is located far east of Indianapolis, but quite a bit south from Fort Wayne; they're the closest team to Ohio, though. There are some other schools near Muncie that currently play a small, nonpyramidal circuit. Maybe try to get in touch with Marion High School - they're signed up not only to participate in pyramidal for the first time this year, but also to try and host one of the regional qualifiers. They may not have the money or means to go, but I'm sure they'd understand it as a great opportunity to observe how a larger tournament is run.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:57 am
by It's Drew
I'm about to pass out, but we have enough results to do an update.

Saint Joseph is once again tearing apart their pyramidal home circuit, but I can't really speak to the competence of the teams who play nonpyramidal because nonpyramidal quiz bowl has an unusually high variance in scoring.

At Purdue's SCOP Novice mirror, a previously-inactive member of Harrison's team completely dominated the field, speaking to the insane depth of their roster. In addition, new teams Tri and Rensselaer Central had awesome showings, with Tri A grinding their way to the top bracket while Rensselaer Central, unlucky in the prelims despite amazing numbers, completely dominated in consolation.

Harrison decided to send their team to the strongly-competitive and pyramidal IHSSBCA Kickoff at Homewood-Flossmoor High School in Illinois rather than the nonpyramidal Brownsburg Dogfight this weekend. They played well, and finished seventh in a field which notably included Latin and Barrington. This marks the first time in a long time that that team has prioritized good quiz bowl over the local :chip: scene.

I also hear that Saint Joseph High School went up to MSU and played HFT, and finished 3rd in a field which notably included Miami Valley and Detroit Country Day. Like I said earlier, that team is legit, scary, good.

Overall, I think this is awesome. We have new teams coming in from all over the state, and our top teams are testing their mettle against tougher competition and tougher questions - and hanging tough. I think this development is legit. Indiana Quiz Bowl is going in the right direction.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:23 am
by It's Drew
More midnight INQB posting:

Carmel didn't make the championship brackets at Rowdy Raider Invitational, then proceeded to completely annihilate first consolation. Going by raw statistics, they probably should have been in the top brackets. Akash is good (and also still a sophomore?!).

Saint Joseph and Culver went up to the Swim 'n' Win tournament in Michigan and decked the field, per usual. Culver is holding back their true A team; hopefully we get to see them in full swing at the Buzzathon in January. (Also, sign up for the Boilermaker Buzzathon!)

Also, I think the Duneland Academic Conference has switched wholesale to NAQT questions? Which is incredible. That place has been a pyramidal dead zone forever, and now it seems like they're really embracing the format (and the league is high-scoring so far, to boot!).

That's all, folks. Have a nice winter break, and study hard!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:54 am
by ParanoidAndroid
I might be blowing my own horn a bit here (I am on Carmel's A team). Carmel, about 3 weeks ago, went to the Class Act Invitational in Louisville, Kentucky. It was pretty cool (placing 4th out of 29 schools definitely helped). You can check out the stats here: https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/s ... t_id=10790.

Akash is a sophomore, and he was a freshman last year. Was there anything out there that said that he was a sophomore last year?

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:32 pm
by It's Drew
ParanoidAndroid wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:54 am
I might be blowing my own horn a bit here (I am on Carmel's A team). Carmel, about 3 weeks ago, went to the Class Act Invitational in Louisville, Kentucky. It was pretty cool (placing 4th out of 29 schools definitely helped). You can check out the stats here: https://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament/s ... t_id=10790.

Akash is a sophomore, and he was a freshman last year. Was there anything out there that said that he was a sophomore last year?
Sorry about my vague wording: by "and also still a sophomore?!" I meant to highlight that you guys have another two and a half years with Akash.

Also, I was unaware you guys went to this tournament, and what a performance! Those conversion numbers are really impressive across the board. Is Archit a freshman, or have they just not gotten the chance to go to a tournament in the past?

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:09 pm
by ParanoidAndroid
Archit is a freshman (and ridiculously good).

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:33 pm
by It's Drew
Anyone know how the Hoosier Heritage Conference Quiz Bowl tournament(s) at Pendleton Heights went? Or how Carmel did at Southwestern by Northeastern in Ohio?

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:14 am
by JusRule
Hey there,

From Southwestern by Northeastern, Carmel A won 1st place with a perfect score, and Carmel B made it to quaterfinals. I think it was a pretty solid performance, and I'm excited for our future.

Also, I probably should have clarified this earlier, but we have now decided to move our planned tournament hosted at Carmel High School to next year due to some logistical and funding issues that we need to sort out before we can move on to hosting a tournament. Sorry for releasing this so late everybody.

Thanks

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:52 am
by It's Drew
Indiana's quiz bowl teams probably don't know to check here, but be sure to sign up for Purdue's Boilermaker Buzzathon on January 11th if you haven't already played NAQT's IS-186 set somewhere else! These questions are roughly equivalent in difficulty to the ones you would hear at Indiana's state championship in March.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 am
by It's Drew
Whoa, I haven't posted in a while! The Area Championships happened this past weekend, and I'm impressed with the current write-up! We don't have complete stats (yet! I know individual stats were recorded, though), but I have access to teams' points per game.

First, to get the obvious out of the way: Harrison, Carmel, and Saint Joseph are just in a completely different league this year. Harrison averaged nearly 700 points per game, more than triple the next highest scoring team at Hobart's sectional. Carmel and Saint Joseph also carried absolutely preposterous averages; 620 and 570, respectively.

Looking past the top 3, we start seeing some interesting names; Culver Academies are right where they were last year, but how about Fishers, Chesterton, North Central, and Center Grove all emerging from non-pyramidal circuits to put up impressive scorelines north of 300 points per game? Or the schools that qualified for state their first year of playing quiz bowl (Barr-Reeve, Bloomington North, Madison Consolidated, Mt. Vernon, Rensselaer Central)? The whole 16-team field for State Finals is impressive and exciting.

One final note: if you gave someone the scoring data I have, I don't think they would recognize that this is a circuit in its first year of existence. The average points per game is an impressive 225. We've got some extremely bright and hard-working teams cropping up all around the state, which is better than we could have possibly hoped for at the beginning of the year. Good luck to everyone going to State!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:57 pm
by Ben Dillon
I'd be extremely careful drawing conclusions based on these scoring "averages", because the morning rounds did not figure into them, only the single-elimination playoff rounds. This introduces a bit of volatility, since scores in single-elimination playoffs may depend heavily on quality of opponent.

For example, Saint Joe averaged 643 PPG in the morning round-robin, but averaged the 570 PPG in only two games – a semifinal and a final – in the afternoon. Qualifying for state was the 570 (and I suspect that any seeding for state will be based on that number only).

One of the things I will try to address after this year with IASP will be switching to the standard practice of tiebreaking using PPB and not PPG.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:06 am
by It's Drew
Ben Dillon wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:57 pm
I'd be extremely careful drawing conclusions based on these scoring "averages", because the morning rounds did not figure into them, only the single-elimination playoff rounds.
Thanks for this info! The wording on the IASP's posts had led me to believe the opposite. The small sample does, however, explain the seemingly impossibly-high PPGs for Harrison and Carmel. Hopefully stats are soon posted on NAQT's website so we can get a more complete picture of the competition scene.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:00 am
by TylerV
IAC is happy to announce it is holding the following tournaments in the region:

Varsity / JV
  • Fort Wayne - The Journey - Saturday, March 14th - on our A Set.

Teams may register at this link and find more information about a tournament on the tournament page here. The registration deadline is 7pm Eastern time on the (usually it’s a) Friday 8 days before the tournament or 7pm Eastern time the (usually it’s a) Monday before the tournament for an additional $10 late fee per team. There are no registration deadlines for individual events (i.e. walk ins are welcome; please arrive 15 minutes before the beginning of the Bee / Exams as per the schedule on the tournament page).

We will be holding the Varsity / JV National Qualifying Exams for the US Geography Championships / International Geography Bee, US History Bee, (new!) National Science Bee and (new!) National Political Science Bee during the first part of the lunch break. Those who take exam(s) should do the exam(s) first, and then eat afterwards - there will be time to do so. These are 50-question, 20-minute time limit multiple-choice tests - it's $10 per student per Exam. Important Note! - You CAN do 3 or 4 exams, but you still only have a maximum of 40 minutes to take these. You can also do other exams at our upcoming B and A Set tournaments or with a proctor at your school / homeschool association.


If you have further questions about any of these, please email our tournament coordinator, Marshall Mullins, at [email protected]

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:38 pm
by JusRule
Hey guys,

I was wondering whether this would be something that would interest anyone, but could we try organizing a state NASAT tournament for Indiana next year? I know NASAT is hard, and in a completely different league from typical NAQT, but I think for the really good Indiana players we have, it would be an excellent opportunity, especially since Nationals is in Kentucky, which isn't that far away.

Also, good job to everyone that went to Regionals! I thought that Regionals was ok, but the fact that they edited some of the typical NAQT rules was kind of unsettling. Something that should be changed are challenges, because I remember at Regionals we weren't allowed to challenge anything unless the moderator themself made an error in saying the question. There were some other discrepancies I can't remember off the top of my head, but when I do remember, I'll try to look into them as well.

Good luck to everyone at State Finals at Purdue!

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:01 am
by Ben Dillon
Hi, Akash!

I was the one who spearheaded us having a team from Indiana in the past. We used the individual results from just Indiana tournaments in order to nominate players, then we held a tryout at Saint Joe to select a team (one person from each of the main disciplines plus a global alternate). We participated from 2012-2014 when the tournament was at Ohio State.

The trick was funding. I repurposed the leftover funds from Classic State when I was running that tournament, but Saint Joe severed ties with all Questions Unlimited tournaments after 2013.

There's an entry fee for NASAT which isn't too large, plus hotel rooms for a couple of nights which can be large, plus transportation which Saint Joe provided at the time. Assuming the tournament is in the Midwest, players could be expected to transport and house themselves, but I hate the idea of them having to also foot the entry fee when they're representing the state.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:36 pm
by It's Drew
The issue now is holding tryouts. For those of you savvy enough to use this forum, you probably have access to last year's NASAT packets and know that NASAT is absolutely no joke. A tryout would need to be on a very difficult set.

Unfortunately, with State and Terrapin in March and two national championship tournaments in April, Purdue's Quiz Bowl Team is probably not going to be able to host a NASAT tryout. The best we would be able to do is invite schools from Indiana to form a super-team to compete at our mirror of Terrapin Open, which would likely be disastrous as registration ends March 7th and the other teams that have signed up so far are all extremely good collegiate teams.

I'm not sure how we would select a team to represent our circuit without a formal tryout, but I figure that the obvious top three candidates would be Song Kim (11, Harrison), Archit Kalra (9, Carmel), and Patrick McGreevy (11, Saint Joseph). There are several other players from Harrison, Carmel, Saint Joseph, Culver, and SB Adams that I would strongly consider for this team.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:15 pm
by AgathokakologicalPunk
Hello all. Agustin, Ben, and Jon are departed (for college) and no longer active here. Thus I am left to be the virtual avatar of the team. I'm glad to have discovered a group of contemporaries passionate about QB.

As regards the IASP State Championship on March 7, are any here privy to the difficulty of the questions being used? I assume (and hope) it above A level.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:45 pm
by Important Bird Area
AgathokakologicalPunk wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:15 pm
As regards the IASP State Championship on March 7, are any here privy to the difficulty of the questions being used?
This event is scheduled to use NAQT IS #192 (thus regular difficulty, not introductory).

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:41 pm
by Ben Dillon
My team just made an annoying discovery about the IASP state tournament. The coaches' manual says the following:
The state tournament will be a three game guarantee, seeded bracket tournament. It takes three losses for a team to be eliminated from the tournament.
I of course was interpreting this as triple-elimination bracket. However, that's not what it means. Four of the eight teams thrown into the losers' bracket after the initial loss get re-paired after their second loss to guarantee that they get a third game and to guarantee that they would have to lose thrice. But for anyone who joins the loser's bracket later, it's effectively double-elimination.

Should I be complaining loudly, or should I be diplomatic in order not to burn bridges so to be able to argue for change next year?

Aside: My team actually wondered whether it would be advantageous to throw the first game to gain the advantage of the extra built-in loss and more potential games fighting through the loser's bracket. (And maybe it would be for a team expecting to be toward the bottom anyway, but not for a team expecting to contend as mine is.)

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:21 am
by It's Drew
Ben Dillon wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:41 pm
My team just made an annoying discovery about the IASP state tournament. The coaches' manual says the following:
The state tournament will be a three game guarantee, seeded bracket tournament. It takes three losses for a team to be eliminated from the tournament.
I of course was interpreting this as triple-elimination bracket. However, that's not what it means. Four of the eight teams thrown into the losers' bracket after the initial loss get re-paired after their second loss to guarantee that they get a third game and to guarantee that they would have to lose thrice. But for anyone who joins the loser's bracket later, it's effectively double-elimination.

Should I be complaining loudly, or should I be diplomatic in order not to burn bridges so to be able to argue for change next year?

Aside: My team actually wondered whether it would be advantageous to throw the first game to gain the advantage of the extra built-in loss and more potential games fighting through the loser's bracket. (And maybe it would be for a team expecting to be toward the bottom anyway, but not for a team expecting to contend as mine is.)
I actually had the same epiphany today. I had known that the first teams to be eliminated could potentially be eliminated with a 1-2 record, but upon further examination, after the third round, this is a pretty conventional double-elimination tournament. Probably not necessary to make a big stink about this; I know that when you search "16-team triple elimination bracket template" one of the top results you get is a three-game guarantee bracket, which is what this tournament will use. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at IASP simply mixed up the schedules. (Though an actual triple elimination bracket is actually far worse!)

I also think your team is right with regards to the competitive degeneracy you describe. This is definitely something we should bring up with the IASP. Unfortunately, it's probably too late for them to change the schedule this year. We should definitely emphasize the importance of a pooled prelim, which is probably the only viable tournament format with no competitive degeneracies other than a single-elimination bracket (which is not ideal for obvious reasons).

(Funny enough, I know through experience that a similar strategy exists in the NAC State Championship, which uses a modified Swiss style format; it's advantageous to throw your first game for an easier schedule and a better chance at making the playoff. University High School of Indiana unintentionally(?) employed this strategy to gain an upper hand against Avon my senior year.)

Another issue with this state championship format:
The IASP Academic Quiz Bowl Coaches' Handbook wrote:The top 10 individuals at the state competition will also receive a recognition medal.
Say, hypothetically, that the roster for some school is built around a single player who averages 60 points per game. Scoring like that will absolutely get you within the top 10, but if this hypothetical player gets no support from their teammates and struggles on bonuses, then this hypothetical team could easily find themselves eliminated after round 3. If scoring prizes are awarded at the end of the day, then this hypothetical team has to wait around for 8 more rounds before their star player can be recognized. This problem gets worse if this hypothetical team happens to be one of the several teams traveling well over 100 miles to play.

These are all things that I think the IASP will sympathize with. However, I'd wait until after the tournament to air any grievances, particularly with regards to this hypothetical team (in case there are any actual teams that get screwed over in this way).

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:25 pm
by Ben Dillon
It's Drew wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:21 am
Another issue with this state championship format:
The IASP Academic Quiz Bowl Coaches' Handbook wrote:
The top 10 individuals at the state competition will also receive a recognition medal.
This didn't happen because they never kept any individual stats, so I think we'll get a second crack at talking about this for next year. I assume that there will be a post-mortem in which the participants and the moderators get to give feedback about how things went.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:02 pm
by JusRule
Alright so I've been doing some research on NASAT and I was thinking whether we could do some sort of online tryouts, as Pennsylvania does a set of tryouts on Discord to decide their NASAT team. I think that would be most convenient, and if we made it all tossups or something, it should go smoothly. It definitely looks like a possibility for next year if we want to bring Indiana on a national level, and it would help promote Quiz Bowl here.

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:57 pm
by It's Drew
Thinking back on what I'd seen at state, it seems like even the teams that made it that far were not well informed on the resources available for them to learn and improve. I was thinking that maybe the circuit would benefit from it if we assembled a document that informed them of the databases, packet archives, and ways to find tournaments (particularly, these forums).

In fact, I'm not sure how many teams find out about our events in the first place. Are these forums common knowledge? I didn't find out about them until well after graduating high school, and if these are our primary way of announcing and organizing tournaments, it's no wonder so many teams rarely leave their circuits.

In the past, I've assembled an About Quiz Bowl page on a personally-maintained Google Site. With some revision, I think this could become something we send to all schools that register via the IASP, so teams know about the options available to their clubs.

(Off-topic, but Portage High School is signed up for HSNCT. Any clue how that happened?)

Re: Indiana 2019-2020

Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:00 pm
by Important Bird Area
Portage qualified at their conference event.