Discussion of NAQT's future

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Discussion of NAQT's future

Post by at your pleasure » Sat May 09, 2009 9:35 pm

Sometimes I wish NAQT would be willing to produce one mACF (meaning no powers and standard ACF Distribution) so we could see if NAQT is actually viable to succeed in the future of good quizbowl, or if it will end up just being a step in the right direction; after today I seriously wonder whether in 8 or so years, NAQT will be viewed as this board currently sees CBI and the like.
While I have similar worries at times, I think that NAQT's problems are different from CBIs. First of all, NAQT does not have the ethical baggage that CBI(or NAC) had. Likewise, they( unlike CBI) aknowledge the independent circuit and grasp what good questions should look like. To me NAQT's biggest issue is probably that they are stretched too thin. Looking at the "sold sets" page, there are 7 IS sets alone, plus ICT, SCT, and HSNCT( I did not even look at A sets and the television speedchecks, since I am unsure of the overlap). Compare that to ACF(4 sets total) or HSAPQ(8 sets, none of which is a national set). To produce this many sets surely takes time away from making individual sets good.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by pblessman » Sat May 09, 2009 10:11 pm

Tower Monarch wrote:I seriously wonder whether in 8 or so years, NAQT will be viewed as this board currently sees CBI and the like.
If we really want to look 8 years into the future, I think a very different picture will emerge. Looking BACK eight years will make clear where the trendline is going. In 2001, NAQT HSNCT was in its third year, featured 40 teams. QU NAC was in its trillionth year, featured something like 90 teams, and PACE NSC, in its fourth year, featured 22 teams. This year, QU NAC has shrunk *but still exists... grrrrr...), PACE NSC has increased in size by a factor of about two, and NAQT HSNCT has exploded to 192 teams PLUS a waiting list. If they could handle it logistically, they could probably go to 2^8=256 teams, which would be interesting. NAQT puts out nine different IS and IS-A sets a year, plus all kinds of specifalized sets in a variety of other formats. Over 1600 teams played NAQT questions this year. PACE produced one other set this year besides NSC (I know producing other sets is not their goal...).

So what is the trend that we've seen over these eight years? Quizbowl has EXPLODED on the scene in the US as what I believe is the fastest growing academic activity in the country. 90% of this growth has been in the form of NAQT tournaments. I do not see any reason to believe that this trend will reverse- quite the contrary. I wouldn't be surprised if quizbowl undergoes another growth spurt over the next eight years (I sincerely hope so). But the only entity that can even remotely handle even the current size of hs quizbowl is NAQT- the number of (generally) high quality questions (all differences regarding trash, distribution, computational math questions, etc. aside) they produce is incredible, and quizbowl will need even more questions if we are ever to approach what I think should be the brass ring we reach for: A quizbowl team at EVERY school in this country (everybody's got basketball, right? Why not quizbowl). But that would mean about 40000 schools playing quizbowl, meaning maybe as many as 100,000 quizbowl teams (assuming 2-3 teams per school...)!!! Talk about questions of scalability!

Sorry about the long post... procrastinating from process Goldfish scores... sigh... This needs to be a different thread...
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Terrible Shorts Depot » Sat May 09, 2009 10:19 pm

pblessman wrote:lots of stuff
You do realize that NAQT is not the only group capable of producing a bajillion questions, right? Another group, similar to NAQT in structure, could easy organize and do the exact same thing. You are probably right that NAQT is the only current organization with that sort of capability, but 8 years is a long time. HSAPQ was a mere twinkle in Matt Weiner's eye 8 years ago. I was in 4th grade, for god sakes! Lots can happen. I don't want to get into an argument about whether or not the current version of NAQT should exist, but I did want to point about the above.

I didn't personally play IS85, butI have heard from multiple sources that this set was a bit of an abomination. I hope dearly HSNCT (my last high school quiz bowl tournament) doesn't suck like this did. Please, NAQT, write an awesome HSNCT.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat May 09, 2009 10:34 pm

pblessman wrote:PACE produced one other set this year besides NSC (I know producing other sets is not their goal...).
PACE only produces the NSC. It does not involve itself in writing regular-season tournaments, so why are you comparing their set outputs?
So what is the trend that we've seen over these eight years? Quizbowl has EXPLODED on the scene in the US as what I believe is the fastest growing academic activity in the country.
[citation needed]
90% of this growth has been in the form of NAQT tournaments.
What about things like HSAPQ and the emergence of high-quality mirrored sets such as NNT, HFT, and Prison Bowl?
But the only entity that can even remotely handle even the current size of hs quizbowl is NAQT- the number of (generally) high quality questions (all differences regarding trash, distribution, computational math questions, etc. aside) they produce is incredible
NAQT produced 5 "quality" sets (I'm not counting A-sets here). HSAPQ produced 8.
quizbowl will need even more questions if we are ever to approach what I think should be the brass ring we reach for: A quizbowl team at EVERY school in this country (everybody's got basketball, right? Why not quizbowl). But that would mean about 40000 schools playing quizbowl, meaning maybe as many as 100,000 quizbowl teams (assuming 2-3 teams per school...)!!! Talk about questions of scalability!
Not really. You do not need to produce another set specifically for people in Montana or Arizona. Tournaments in the DC area are already pretty saturated as it is -- we had the potential to go to about 20 tournaments this year, and simply mirroring a lot of them would give you a ton of tournaments around the nation.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by pblessman » Sat May 09, 2009 10:53 pm

la2pgh wrote: You do realize that NAQT is not the only group capable of producing a bajillion questions, right?
Darn... That wasn't my main point, although I do think it's significant. I was trying to use number of sets produced to emphasize the idea of momentum. High School Quizbowl is an INCREDIBLY difficult ship to change direction for (this is not unique to quizbowl). Talk to some people in Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, etc. and you'll see what I mean by this. So when something like NAQT comes along and builds up incredible momentum in the form of sets produced, tournaments played on those questions, and number of teams/coaches using those questions, it is going to be VERY difficult to change that, especially when there are no BLATANT problems with the product. (This is not to say NAQT or this set is perfect... nobody is... but by blatant I mean some of the other stuff people have pulled in this business- plagiarism, cancelling a National Championship with no warning, etc.). And even with those problems... there are STILL holdouts running QU tournaments and going to NAC! So- I wish all the best to Matt Weiner, PACE, HSAPQ, and anybody else interested in making a dent in the market. However, my prediction (unbiased... I am not an NAQT member) is that NAQT will continue to dominate the high school quizbowl scene due to sheer momentum and the lack a blatant problem with NAQT (yes, I know there are people arguing about IS-85 having blatant problems on this board... but honestly, I've played such steaming piles of crap with my teams before that any issues with this set pale beyond belief... the "Duck-Buck vs. Goose-Moose" challenge comes to mind...).
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat May 09, 2009 10:58 pm

pblessman wrote:However, my prediction (unbiased... I am not an NAQT member) is that NAQT will continue to dominate the high school quizbowl scene
On the contrary, the only NAQT tournaments in the Quizbowl-heavy DC/MD/VA area was RM Fall, our fall tournament, and NAQT States. And right now I seriously doubt that TJ will use NAQT questions next year.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by at your pleasure » Sat May 09, 2009 11:19 pm

Am I the only guy here who senses a gap between the penetration of(good) non-NAQT stuff in the DC area and the penetration of (good)non-NAQT stuff elsewhere?
I also think Coach Blessman's analysis of NAQT's dominance underestimates the importance of NAQT's organization and status as a "professional" question producer. While everyone here knows that good quizbowl is most often student-produced, many people unfamiliar with mainstream quizbowl are more likely to trust professionals.
I would welcome any and all examples of problematic questions (email me at jthoppes -at- berkeley -dot- edu). Additionally, after HSNCT there will be a discussion thread to talk about the 2008-2009 IS sets in public.
Is there any way for someone who has not played this set and does not intend to do so to see the questions? Also, how many IS sets did you produce this year?
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by AKKOLADE » Sat May 09, 2009 11:29 pm

hwhite wrote:
pblessman wrote:However, my prediction (unbiased... I am not an NAQT member) is that NAQT will continue to dominate the high school quizbowl scene
On the contrary, the only NAQT tournaments in the Quizbowl-heavy DC/MD/VA area was RM Fall, our fall tournament, and NAQT States. And right now I seriously doubt that TJ will use NAQT questions next year.
I think it's fair to say this is not exactly par for the course. NAQT is dominant in some areas (Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Minnesota) than others.

You also neglect Auburn High's EQUINE, Roanoke and Bel Air in your list of NAQT events.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat May 09, 2009 11:38 pm

But I'm pretty sure those events aren't in the Richmond-D.C. region.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat May 09, 2009 11:51 pm

FredMorlan wrote:
hwhite wrote:
pblessman wrote:However, my prediction (unbiased... I am not an NAQT member) is that NAQT will continue to dominate the high school quizbowl scene
On the contrary, the only NAQT tournaments in the Quizbowl-heavy DC/MD/VA area was RM Fall, our fall tournament, and NAQT States. And right now I seriously doubt that TJ will use NAQT questions next year.
I think it's fair to say this is not exactly par for the course. NAQT is dominant in some areas (Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Minnesota) than others.
Quizbowl in the DC area is probably a few years ahead of the rest of the circuit, which is precisely the point I'm making -- that NAQT will not be such a pervasive force in the HS Quizbowl scene.
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Self-incompatibility in plants » Sun May 10, 2009 12:15 am

I think it's fair to say this is not exactly par for the course. NAQT is dominant in some areas (Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Minnesota) than others.
To support this, Delaware's 3 tournaments were all NAQT, which is sad for a number of reasons...
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Re: Virginia NAQT Championship May 9 (Richmond)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun May 10, 2009 1:58 am

(all humor value in Charlie's liveblog was lost for me when I noticed similarities)
This set may have been bad, but boy are you misled if you think anything NAQT makes is similar to the drivel I heard today.
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