Some DII Feedback

[Ondes Martenot]

So I obviously didn't write anything for DI but I did write 41 questions for DII and am curious what people think

Round 1
tu: pentagon papers, south carolina, marco polo, khyber pass

round 2
bonus: sociobio/gould/p.e.
tu: roy lichtenstein, harry reid (yeah, not sure how 2 reid questions wound up in this set)

r3
bonus on ricci v destefano

r4
tu on fallingwater

r5
tu: tunguska event, sac. kings
bonus on peter paul rubens

r6
tu on pegaus, john tyler, shah jahan

r7
bonus on american tragedy and on huckel's rule

r8
tu on calorimeter, albee, kipling
bonus on frank norris

r9
tu on battle of verdun, riemann zeta function
bonuses on mamet and germinal

r10
tu on james k polk and pyrennes mountains
bonus on zheng he

r11
tu on agee, titration, terran (from starcraft), standard oil

r12
tu on syria and credit mobilier scandal

r13
tu on horace greeley
bonus on copper/peptide bonds/aldehyde

nothing in r14

r15
tu on kerensky, louisiana

r16
tu somalia, sartre, mollusks

[Chico the Rainmaker]

Perhaps this was intended, but I was able to get the zeta function question at the end just by knowing what letter comes after epsilon. Granted, that was the last clue so anyone who knew it probably would've gotten it by then, but maybe it would've been better to say "named after a Greek letter" rather than "the letter after epsilon" so that someone would've at least had to know that there is a zeta function if he wanted a better than 1/22 shot at getting it.

[Papa's in the House]

The TU on Pegasus either did what it was supposed to or baited people into negging with Bellerophon early (as my teammate did).
The USS Princeton clue for Polk has come up a couple of times before (granted, I couldn't recall his name until later).

[manary]

The astrodome was a total hose, but maybe I missed some sports clue.

There were lots of questions with LaGrange or a permutation as answers (at least 4).

"The bombing of libya" was a shitty answer - we all sat there trying to think of an operation name, and missed it.

[jonpin]

Concur on "Bombing of Libya". I read the answer line and five or six people said "Oh."

"Apery's constant" is not a good lead-in for the zeta function.

[MicroEStudent]

The astrodome was a total hose, but maybe I missed some sports clue.

There were lots of questions with LaGrange or a permutation as answers (at least 4).

"The bombing of libya" was a shitty answer - we all sat there trying to think of an operation name, and missed it.

How was Astrodome a hose? The 1989 NBA All Star game clue is a dead giveaway for the place. It has been brought up numerous times recently with the All-Star game at Cowboys Stadium this year and with the Las Vegas All-Star game as non-NBA arenas hosting the game.

EDIT: Forgot I was in the DII thread. My fault.

[Mechanical Beasts]

"Apery's constant" is not a good lead-in for the zeta function.

It's fine for DII.

[Chico the Rainmaker]

The astrodome was a total hose, but maybe I missed some sports clue.

I would be willing to bet (and I know someone on the other team did this in my room and I was right behind him) that there was a lot of "Katrina refugees were moved here" neg-with-Superdome "from the Superdome"

[grapesmoker]

"Apery's constant" is not a good lead-in for the zeta function.

It's fine for DII.

It sure is.

[manary]

Yeha - I admitted that I don't know anything about sports, which is why it might not have been a hose, thought the 1989 all star game is from before I was born. It was exactly as said: Katrina refugees "buzz, neg" from the superdome "oh, buzz, 10"

[Broad-tailed Grassbird]

The astrodome was a total hose, but maybe I missed some sports clue.

I would be willing to bet (and I know someone on the other team did this in my room and I was right behind him) that there was a lot of "Katrina refugees were moved here" neg-with-Superdome "from the Superdome"

You didn't get hosed. That question rewarded the knowledge that the largest NBA all-star game ever (until next week) was there. Its a random useless fact, except that it has come up in current events recently. If you buzz in on it's a stadium that has to do with Katrina, you are using the freshman method. http://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/Freshman_Method

[Auks Ran Ova]

The astrodome was a total hose, but maybe I missed some sports clue.

I would be willing to bet (and I know someone on the other team did this in my room and I was right behind him) that there was a lot of "Katrina refugees were moved here" neg-with-Superdome "from the Superdome"

You didn't get hosed. That question rewarded the knowledge that the largest NBA all-star game ever (until next week) was there. Its a random useless fact, except that it has come up in current events recently. If you buzz in on it's a stadium that has to do with Katrina, you are using the freshman method. http://www.qbwiki.com/wiki/Freshman_Method

No...no, you're not. If you buzz on "a stadium" and guess "Yankee Stadium" while disregarding context clues, you're using the freshman method. If you buzz on "Katrina refugees were moved to this stadium" with a stadium to which Katrina refugees were moved, you're the victim of some unfortunate word ordering. One can't assume knowledge of earlier clues to justify potential hoses in later clues.

[jonpin]

"Apery's constant" is not a good lead-in for the zeta function.

It's fine for DII.

It sure is.

Cheerfully withdrawn.

[#1 Mercury Adept]

I only wrote four questions, which I don't think merits a whole new thread: the bonus about kids in musical works (packet 3) and the tossups on Bach (13), the Kalevala (14), and Genesis (14) are mine, if anyone wants to say anything about those.

[Charbroil]

Tossup on Terrans from Starcraft

We had an interesting situation with this question where I heard "Sons of Korhal" and buzzed with "Confederacy" because I thought you were looking for the specific faction of Terrans. I realize that the clues before it applied to another Terran faction in Starcraft II, but given the comment of "One can't assume knowledge of earlier clues to justify potential hoses in later clues" above, I was wondering whether you might not consider that a potential hose as well?

[Ondes Martenot]

Ummm...I'm not too sure. My memory of starcraft is a bit rusty. When writing this I considered using "this race" instead of "this faction" but decided against that in fear that it would make it too obvious that it was about starcraft. Maybe this wouldn't be an issue and maybe a more specific element should have been prompted. I'll make sure in the future to keep my very limited pop culture to things I am more fully comfortable with.

[Maxwell Sniffingwell]

Ummm...I'm not too sure. My memory of starcraft is a bit rusty. When writing this I considered using "this race" instead of "this faction" but decided against that in fear that it would make it too obvious that it was about starcraft. Maybe this wouldn't be an issue and maybe a more specific element should have been prompted. I'll make sure in the future to keep my very limited pop culture to things I am more fully comfortable with.

Also, is Sarah Kerrigan really a good example of a Terran?

[grapesmoker]

Are we seriously talking about Starcraft?

[nobthehobbit]

Are we seriously talking about Starcraft?

I think we're talking seriously about Starcraft.

[Ondes Martenot]

Also, is Sarah Kerrigan really a good example of a Terran?

Probably not. I mean, it is her "main race", if that makes any sense.

Are we seriously talking about Starcraft?

I mean Jerry, there's no reason why a trash tu can't be written to the same standards as a tu in any other subject. I'll be the first to admit that I probably didn't have the right level of knowledge to write a tu on terran and in the future will make sure my trash tu's are on things I'm much more familiar with.

[cvdwightw]

Are we seriously talking about Starcraft?

I mean Jerry, there's no reason why a trash tu can't be written to the same standards as a tu in any other subject. I'll be the first to admit that I probably didn't have the right level of knowledge to write a tu on terran and in the future will make sure my trash tu's are on things I'm much more familiar with.

If I had a cookie for every time an academic tournament discussion got hung up on discussion of a single trash answer, I'd be very full right now.

[Captain Sinico]

I mean Jerry, there's no reason why a trash tu can't be written to the same standards as a tu in any other subject.

There's every reason it can't; it's a trash question. It's on something stupid and/or unimportant.

MaS

[Kwang the Ninja]

I would love to know why tossups on androids, zombies, coffins, and stamps all got put in the same round. That was reaaaaaaaaaaaaally fun(n).

[Important Bird Area]

I would love to know why tossups on androids, zombies, coffins, and stamps all got put in the same round. That was reaaaaaaaaaaaaally fun(n).

Fixed.

[ValenciaQBowl]

There was much notice/discussion at the CCCT among readers and players I was speaking to that there were a lot of references to both Argentina and Shakespeare in the first three rounds of the DII SCT set. Not repeats, exactly, but just repetitions as clues and parts of answers.

Also, though certainly trivial, I was amused that the first half of one round managed to name drop both "Cassius Clay" and "Muhammed Ali" in different questions (the former as a clue, the latter as a bonus part) with neither referring to the great American boxer.

Finally, in at least three rooms that I know of at the CCCT, the Easter Island toss-up led to negs on folks who couldn't come up with "Moai" after being prompted; in my room, a player came in before the power mark with the answer of "Easter Island heads" but had no idea about what I was prompting for. And one of my players melted down after negging on it (his fault, though--that name has come up in practice). I don't have a problem with that answer being required, but maybe this just shouldn't be a toss-up answer since it ends up becoming such neg bait for DII players. As a bonus part, at least the question could ask for their native designation.

[Terrible Shorts Depot]

Finally, in at least three rooms that I know of at the CCCT, the Easter Island toss-up led to negs on folks who couldn't come up with "Moai" after being prompted; in my room, a player came in before the power mark with the answer of "Easter Island heads" but had no idea about what I was prompting for. And one of my players melted down after negging on it (his fault, though--that name has come up in practice). I don't have a problem with that answer being required, but maybe this just shouldn't be a toss-up answer since it ends up becoming such neg bait for DII players. As a bonus part, at least the question could ask for their native designation.

This really doesn't seem like a problem to me. Why should we give points to people who don't actually know the right answer? This seems equivalent to someone describing obelisks instead of just saying "obelisk," which, clearly, isn't deserving of points.

[ValenciaQBowl]

I suppose that's right. Unfortunately, a lot of CCCT players didn't seem to know the term. I wonder how well it got converted at the SCTs in DII.

[Kwang the Ninja]

I suppose that's right. Unfortunately, a lot of CCCT players didn't seem to know the term.

We got it, and we're the fourth or fifth best team in the nation!!

[1979 Sugar Bowl]

I would love to know why tossups on androids, zombies, coffins, and stamps all got put in the same round. That was reaaaaaaaaaaaaally fun(n).

Fixed.

Just wondering what category in the distribution coffins and stamps fall under?

[Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)]

I know I have never encountered the word moai until this sectional, yet I knew exactly what the tossup was referring to. I don't know how I feel about that answer line, it seems like in America 95% of the time people call them the heads on Easter Island and have no actual reason to ever learn their native name instead, so I would probably say that the answer line should be made broader, unless there's some really compelling evidence that way more people call them moai routinely than I think they do.

[Important Bird Area]

Just wondering what category in the distribution coffins and stamps fall under?

Miscellaneous and general knowledge, respectively. (Coffins should have been in gk too, rather than miscellaneous.)

[Mechanical Beasts]

I know I have never encountered the word moai until this sectional, yet I knew exactly what the tossup was referring to. I don't know how I feel about that answer line, it seems like in America 95% of the time people call them the heads on Easter Island and have no actual reason to ever learn their native name instead, so I would probably say that the answer line should be made broader, unless there's some really compelling evidence that way more people call them moai routinely than I think they do.

I learned "moai" in class in fifth grade (and before you mention that hey, this is the school that taught me orgo in tenth grade, this was a pretty mediocre elementary school), but that's obviously hardly compelling evidence--and I definitely support the broader answer line, anyway. It's a "clear knowledge equivalent" if ever there was one.

[Kwang the Ninja]

Just wondering what category in the distribution coffins and stamps fall under?

Miscellaneous and general knowledge, respectively. (Coffins should have been in gk too, rather than miscellaneous.)

Any chance those categories are on their way out?

[Important Bird Area]

Reduced for 2011? Quite possible. Completely eliminated? Highly doubtful.

[Marble-faced Bristle Tyrant]

Easter Island heads negging

Same thing happened in our room, for the record.

[gyre and gimble]

I thought I'd mention that for the volume tossup, I think from Rd. 2, having "isochoric" as like the second or third word is pretty anti-pyramidal, especially in the phrase "isochoric processes keep this constant" or something like that. I mean, most people know what isobaric and isothermal means, so it's likely they also know that isochoric refers to volume, and at that point it's a quick-recall vocabulary question.

[Important Bird Area]

This quantity remains constant in isochoric processes, and is corrected by subtracting a term proportional to the number of particles in the van der Waals equation. Charles' law says it is proportional to (*) temperature. For an ideal gas undergoing an isothermal process, it is inversely proportional to pressure, as required by Boyle's law. For 10 points--name this amount of space taken up by a system that is symbolized V.

[Mechanical Beasts]

I thought I'd mention that for the volume tossup, I think from Rd. 2, having "isochoric" as like the second or third word is pretty anti-pyramidal, especially in the phrase "isochoric processes keep this constant" or something like that. I mean, most people know what isobaric and isothermal means, so it's likely they also know that isochoric refers to volume, and at that point it's a quick-recall vocabulary question.

I don't know--while I agree with you that clues that reduce to vocabulary tests are inherently not great, I disagree that it's antipyramidal per se: my experience certainly led me to encounter that term much later than isobaric, isenthalpic, etc., and I certainly knew that the van der Waals equation of state corrected for particles not being points before I encountered that term. And the later clues are certainly easier. Now, is that an easier leadin than many tossups in this set? Certainly. But it's also harder than the rest of the clues in that tossup (or at least fairly similar to the next clue).