All-Movie Side Event 20XX

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All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

This is a very preliminary announcement of my intention to write an all-movies, tossups only event for use at some point in the not-too-far future.

This tournament will be done independent of Rom's recently announced event. The reason for this is because I want this event to spur on my learning more about movies.

The planned distribution is:

14 tossups on movies. The general distribution of this will have 3 tossups for the time period of 1900-1949, 3 for 1950-1969, 4 for 1970-1989 and 4 for 1990-present day. I'm not going to have a specific differentiation between them, but this event will include tossups on both "art" films and "popular" films, plus whatever is in-between.

6 tossups on other film-related things, with 4 on people & companies involved in film making and the remaining two filling the "other" need.

Of course, I'd be more than happy to have comments on the distribution which is more or less just roughly sketched out at this time.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

I'm assuming there will be, but just to be sure, will this include international films? And if so, are they just part of the general distribution or will there be like a sub-sub distribution?
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by DumbJaques »

Why only 4 for 1980-2009? Not only is that realistically a much larger body of work, but it's also like 30 years (as opposed to 20 for the previous two divisions). There's also such a divergence between 1980s movies and the last 20 years, it seems odd to group it that way, but that's just me. I suppose I'd be more inclined to use a pre-1950, 1950-1970, 1970-1990, and 1990-current. Of course, I'd also be more inclined to have a 4/4 Leprechaun in Space distribution, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

In any event, awesome, and I will go anywhere to play this tournament. Have you considered UNLV?
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by MichaelKearney »

I'm very interested in this event, since it's taking place in 20XX. I hope that I can use my Mega Buster as a buzzer system.

Seriously though, super-awesome. The distribution does confuse me a bit, since you've got 4 "people and companies" tossups, and 14 "movies" tossups. Does that mean that the movie questions are all going to be titles? Leaving "people and companies" to encompass actors, directors, producers and the like? Also, I've gotta agree with Chris about increasing the number of 1980-2009 questions. Certainly the pre-1940's questions are important for many different reasons, but sometimes the only legitimate answer selections for that era are either hugely popular movies(Gone With the Wind, Snow White), or movies that show up a lot in quizbowl (Wings, Triumph of the Will, etc). If you scooted everything down a decade, you could have 4 of each, while effectively increasing the amount of recent content without removing the older stuff.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

MichaelKearney wrote:I'm very interested in this event, since it's taking place in 20XX. I hope that I can use my Mega Buster as a buzzer system.
I'm glad someone else thought of this.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

So, before I ran out of juice on my Linux-running laptop (thanks Dan Goff!), I looked over some information regarding the number of movies looked at by theyshootpictures.com (note: they look at about 8000 movies to generate their 1000 greatest, so good luck gaming that).

With the previous timeline I mentioned above, I had about 3.5 times as many movies to cover from 1980-2009 as start of time-1939. That's obviously broken.

Here's what we had before:

start of time to 1939 - 984 movies
1940-1959 - 1536
1960-1979 - 2143
1980-present - 3249

Now, we're doing this:

start-1949 - 1643 movies
1950-1969 - 1883
1970-1989 - 2392
1990-present - 1994

It's good to see things closed up a lot, so I'm going with that split.

To answer a couple of questions: yes, foreign films will appear in the tournament, at a fairly regular rate. I won't marginalize them, but I also don't intend this become foreign film bowl 20XX. I'm inclined to not do a hard distribution with regards to this, but there will be foreign films in each round.

Also, the other 6 questions a round will be related to things in movies that aren't plot/making of a movie related. The other 14 will be along those lines. I personally think too many actor/director questions become "this film person said something stupid in real life lolisn'tthatunique. they did film x, and then they did film y. name this person who played character c in film z."

There's also the possibility of me increasing the number of TUs per round, depending on how things look with 20 TUs. I might just make it 4/4/4/4 in the time periods.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Matt Weiner »

Well, that site is the Bible for art movies, but since this appears to be a tournament that mixes art film and trash film pretty freely, it may not be the best guide to the time breakdown. I am not sure what the ideal distribution for this is, but I suspect that having 25% of your distro from pre-1950 may still be too much. There's definitely a lot of great and important films from that period, but you're skewing the answer base a lot towards art film in that part of the tournament (since there are very few Wizard of Oz-type films that are pre-1950 and could conceivably be called "popular") and thus towards trash film in the more recent areas, which I suspect will leave art film from the present day underrepresented.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

I slightly disagree, as I think there are a number of popular films from the pre 1950 period, although making it pre-1960 and even pre-1970 might be a better idea if you want to stay accessible. I mean, as much as I want to see tossups on _The 39 Steps_ or _The More the Merrier_ (or more reasonably, say, _Laura_ or _My Man Godfrey_), I'm not sure how the conversion rates would be on that stuff.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

Matt Weiner wrote:Well, that site is the Bible for art movies, but since this appears to be a tournament that mixes art film and trash film pretty freely, it may not be the best guide to the time breakdown. I am not sure what the ideal distribution for this is, but I suspect that having 25% of your distro from pre-1950 may still be too much. There's definitely a lot of great and important films from that period, but you're skewing the answer base a lot towards art film in that part of the tournament (since there are very few Wizard of Oz-type films that are pre-1950 and could conceivably be called "popular") and thus towards trash film in the more recent areas, which I suspect will leave art film from the present day underrepresented.
To respond to one of your side-issues specifically, the Excel sheet I mentioned lists the following movies: Shrek, Shrek 2, Speed Racer, The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron, Dick Tracy, Dumb & Dumber, Elf, Panic Room and Not Another Teen Movie, amongst others. I know this isn't a perfect argument that the site is the best guide for a time breakdown, I think that it considers a number of non-art films.

But that is a good point regarding popular film pre-1950. I'll look at this closer and, if necessary, announce a change. Regardless, I promise that there will be questions on art movies from the more recent eras.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Church51907 »

Any word on the date and location for this tournament?
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

I've written two tossups for this, and I'm not sure what I saved those to. Basically, it's very on hold.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

Good news, everyone! I've invented a device that allows Mike Cheyne to help me with this event!

I'm very pleased that Mike is helping out; he should help ensure this event is at least 50% competent, assuming I don't drag him down too much. We're discussing distribution & difficulty right now and might have further information up in the not too far future. I imagine this won't be paired with anything until summer 2010, though.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

To piggy back on this, I'd like to explain a little bit of my writing philosophy for this event:

*I don't intend to write too much (if at all) on actors/actresses. While I think there's a place for these tossups, they typically descend into "IMDB Bowl." Rather, I want to write on important, notable films and reward knowledge of them, much as how literature tossups should actually reward reading a book and not just list memorization. In the same vein, I'd like to produce some director tossups that focus more on their films rather than personal anecdotes.

*I want to write mostly on "quasi-academic" films. While there will, of course, be a few truly trashy films, I don't want this to be a big 'ol vanity experience. Fred is taking great pains to pick out films that are actually important within film history, even though they may not be films that pop up in either trash or academic events. These are films or things connected to film that someone with an intellectual curiosity about film will have seen or heard of.

*We're not sure about what event we'd like to attach this to or if we can even finish it by the summer (heh, I should probably complete T-Party and MUT first, amirite). I'd ideally like to attach this to Chicago Open or some other prestigious summer event. I'm excited about working on this and am eager to produce well-written tossups on films people actually know about.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by DumbJaques »

Ugh, come on, what's with all this anti-trash film sentiment? I don't understand why you'd set out to avoid having mainstream stuff (or declare a flat ban, mostly, on even some random trashy stuff). Really, I think the film industry is by nature much more influenced by things done most recently, and much more heavily influenced by what ends up being successful or notable for perhaps quirky reasons, than literature or painting or anything like that. If you look at the guys making significant films right now - by whatever metric of significance you want to use short of the fuckers who let the camera roll while people pretend to eat each other in black and white and then throw up "fin" three hours later - those guys have likely been as influenced (or more influenced) by stuff like Big Trouble in Little China as they have by Sergio Leone (or the cavalcade of -inis and -auts that quizbowl throws at us with absolutely no end).

I think it's great that you're trying to ask about cinematically significant stuff rather than a bunch of tossups on Bee Movie (or a revival of the HEY GUYS CINEMA OF SOMALIA RIGHT school of the CO 08 film tournament). I'd just submit that, by nature of what cinema is, a holistic tournament would necessarily include plenty of stuff that one would call "trashy" or whatever.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

DumbJaques wrote:words
each round is 20 tossups of rainer werner fassbinder please prepare appropriately
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

FredMorlan wrote:
DumbJaques wrote:words
each round is 20 tossups of rainer werner fassbinder please prepare appropriately
surprise championship round is actually all wong kar-wai swerrrrrve
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by DumbJaques »

each round is 20 tossups of rainer werner fassbinder please prepare appropriately
As long as it's not on noted "Guinean Fassbinder" Mohamed Camara.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

Well, here's the deal:

First of all, I really disagree that Big Trouble in Little China influences filmmakers today more than Sergio Leone, who is one of the world's most influential filmmakers.

Secondly, we're not having a flat ban on mainstream stuff at all. What we're trying to do is strike a balance between "Traditional Art/Foreign Film" and "Brainless trashy film." We're trying to write tossups on mainstream works that intellectually curious and intelligent people have seen and know about. So, yeah, probably not a tossup on Big Trouble in Little China. As I said, we are including some straight up goofy trash films.

Finally, this tournament will include plenty of tossups on "things not considered art films or academically important in the context of their original time." We hope that by including particular era limitations that we hit up a lot of films that are important, are interesting, or haven't come up in quizbowl from both the distant past and the modern era. Quizbowl is about intellectual curiosity and learning, so we hope to learn about these films in writing this tournament and we hope people playing it also will learn.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Papa's in the House »

EDIT: Removed most of the examples, personal or otherwise, so only the essence of the post remains.

I'm glad that someone is writing this, but there are a couple things I'd like to note about the discussion over the distribution for the tournament:

1 - It is heavily skewed towards pre-1990 movies. Yes, there are movies from this time period that deserve to be tossed up, perhaps it would be better to skew the distribution more towards the audience of the tournament (which I would put the majority of players at 25 years of age or younger). That being said, don't take this to mean that you should write that tossup on Jungle 2 Jungle you've always been looking to write just to have more questions from the post-1990 time period.
2 - Trashy movies are okay to tossup. That being said, don't have most of your questions be on movies similar to Meet the Spartans or that would just be terrible and, if possible, try to vary the trashy movie tossups by time period, as it seems like the easiest thing to do is to have the majority of such tossups be from the most current time period in the distribution.

That being said, I hope all goes well, especially with the "quasi-academic" tossups and I look forward to playing it.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

starwarsguy6 wrote:1 - It is heavily skewed towards pre-1990 movies. Yes, there are movies from this time period that deserve to be tossed up, perhaps it would be better to skew the distribution more towards the audience of the tournament (which I would put the majority of players at 25 years of age or younger). That being said, don't take this to mean that you should write that tossup on Jungle 2 Jungle you've always been looking to write just to have more questions from the post-1990 time period.
Well, there's a lot of really important movies made prior to 1990. It's not like I was waiting in line to watch Battleship Potemkin when it first came out. Older movies are really important to know so you can better understand newer ones as well.

There's lots of resources to learn about old movies. Besides DVDs, there's stuff like theyshootpictures.com and people like Roger Ebert, for starters.
2 - Trashy movies are okay to tossup. That being said, don't have most of your questions be on movies similar to Meet the Spartans or that would just be terrible and, if possible, try to vary the trashy movie tossups by time period, as it seems like the easiest thing to do is to have the majority of such tossups be from the most current time period in the distribution.
Don't worry, that's not going to happen.

I imagine you'll see some actor/actresses TUs, just not a huge number.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

Oh, and additionally: I think Mike and I are going to abandon the "art vs. trash" split, and just write about things that are, in one way or another, important.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

Yeah, we're not consciously trying to say "oooh, art film" or "oooh, trash film" (although we've picked out a few pretty trashy personal favorites). I will say, at the risk of sounding like a cultural elitist, there's really no reason why film questions should focus more on recent film because that's what the audience is most familiar with. I don't see how film is any different than literature, music, and art--there are certainly resources to study old films, a lot of them are available on DVD, some are even on TV. I mean, we don't intend to toss up Some Dude's Student Film That Only Got Released to Two People, but hell, a film like 12 Angry Men, pre-1990 or not, is important, people watch it, and there's tons of interesting clues for it. So stuff like that.

Don't worry, we won't tossup Jungle 2 Jungle. We'll toss up the French film it's based on (Little Indian, Big City).
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by grapesmoker »

These dudes can write whatever tournament they want; I for one am grateful that there's going to be a movie tournament that actually takes film significance seriously and will hopefully not have tossups on stupid trashy movies that I would never watch. But regardless, it's their event, they're writing it to whatever standards they want, and there's no point in complaining about it.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Papa's in the House »

FredMorlan wrote: Well, there's a lot of really important movies made prior to 1990. It's not like I was waiting in line to watch Battleship Potemkin when it first came out. Older movies are really important to know so you can better understand newer ones as well.

There's lots of resources to learn about old movies. Besides DVDs, there's stuff like theyshootpictures.com and people like Roger Ebert, for starters.
Cheynem wrote:I mean, we don't intend to toss up Some Dude's Student Film That Only Got Released to Two People, but hell, a film like 12 Angry Men, pre-1990 or not, is important
I agree with you (especially with12 Angry Men). In my first post, I had noted that my personal view (and I noticed some people echo it) is that it would be somewhat difficult to write a large portion on pre-1950 movies. I should have narrowed my focus in the edit and I apologize for that.

As to writing more towards the current era of film, I don't want to see half of the tournament written on more current movies (you would ignore a great deal of quality movies), but maybe one less pre-1950 question (for the aforementioned reason) and one more post-1989 question. I should have noted this earlier so I could have avoided some confusion as to what I meant by writing more towards the audience.
Cheynem wrote:Don't worry, we won't tossup Jungle 2 Jungle. We'll toss up the French film it's based on (Little Indian, Big City).
I believe I have another movie to add to my list to watch (thank you), which has been suffering with current releases.

That being said, I'm done commenting until I play this tournament (or if I am unable to play it, then when I read the packets later), unless someone PMs me or emails me.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Mike Bentley »

I think Roger Ebert gave Big City, Little Indian 0 stars. You may want to find another movie.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by AKKOLADE »

Bentley Like Beckham wrote:I think Roger Ebert gave Big City, Little Indian 0 stars. You may want to find another movie.
He did, and he eviscerated it in his review. Linky.

This it probably a 7 on the 10 point "Ragin' Roger Ebert" scale.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Auroni »

I'm interested in playing this.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

For the record, Ebert gives Jungle 2 Jungle one star, instead of zero, but this is almost worse, as Ebert admits Jungle 2 Jungle "doesn't achieve truly awful badness."
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Papa's in the House »

With Mike's recent post about the all TV set, I was wondering if anyone had any updates about this set.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by Cheynem »

Fred and I are working on it and we have some questions done. When NSC ends, I'm sure Fred will have more time to work on this and beginning next week, so should I. Still not sure when this could get finished by, of course, but it is still happening.
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Re: All-Movie Side Event 20XX

Post by recfreq »

Cheynem wrote:I slightly disagree, as I think there are a number of popular films from the pre 1950 period, although making it pre-1960 and even pre-1970 might be a better idea if you want to stay accessible. I mean, as much as I want to see tossups on _The 39 Steps_ or _The More the Merrier_ (or more reasonably, say, _Laura_ or _My Man Godfrey_), I'm not sure how the conversion rates would be on that stuff.
I raise my hand; more 39 Steps and The Spiral Staircase, please.
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