Stupid educators thread

Old college threads.
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Since this is a forum about learning, I think we should have a thread about learning about people who do not do a good job with the whole learning thing but are in positions in power in the system responsible for education. DICHOTOMIES~!

So, I'm leading off with this: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5819725.html

Granted, there's plenty of criticism of the group that was brought in, but firing the guy for bringing in dem Muslims doesn't seem right either.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
User avatar
sabine01
Tidus
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:31 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by sabine01 »

Cancer survivor not allowed to walk with graduating class.

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/news/ci_9476044

All I could say, is the student knows she won't be getting her diploma until she finishes that last class (Thanks to a very strict English Teacher. I have a little bit of bias, but given I've been where I've been, I'd question *her* judgment, too). However. what has the student done to warrant her exclusion from the ceremony? Nothing that's really her fault.
Tricia Southard Greenstein, MLS
Furman '01 | GWU Staff | Maryland '10

I don't care whose fault this was, just get it sorted! And could someone please bring me something deep fat fried and smothered in chocolate?! ~ Fairy Godmother, "Shrek 2"
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Ugh.

From our own QB Wiki: you know who should suffer from teacher strikes? That's right - the children. http://doc-ent.com/qbwiki/index.php?title=1995_Bell
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
User avatar
sabine01
Tidus
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:31 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by sabine01 »

Update: Student will not be barred from the ceremony thanks to public outcry. From what I can tell, she will be allowed to sit with the class, but not walk.

http://www.dailydemocrat.com/ci_9489080

It's progress, but I feel she should be allowed to walk.

~T~
Tricia Southard Greenstein, MLS
Furman '01 | GWU Staff | Maryland '10

I don't care whose fault this was, just get it sorted! And could someone please bring me something deep fat fried and smothered in chocolate?! ~ Fairy Godmother, "Shrek 2"
User avatar
Nine-Tenths Ideas
Auron
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: MD

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Nine-Tenths Ideas »

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/03 ... index.html

This made the news a while back. The source I read it from portrayed it as stupider than it sounds now, but it's still kinda unsettling.
Isaac Hirsch
University of Maryland '14
Never Gonna Play Again
User avatar
Matt Weiner
Sin
Posts: 8145
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Matt Weiner »

leftsaidfred wrote:Since this is a forum about learning, I think we should have a thread about learning about people who do not do a good job with the whole learning thing but are in positions in power in the system responsible for education. DICHOTOMIES~!

So, I'm leading off with this: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5819725.html

Granted, there's plenty of criticism of the group that was brought in, but firing the guy for bringing in dem Muslims doesn't seem right either.
Eh, he should have known better than to go to CAIR. There were surely plenty of local Muslim groups/mosques that could have given this lecture which weren't, you know, obvious front groups for all the worst parts of Islam like CAIR is.
Matt Weiner
Advisor to Quizbowl at Virginia Commonwealth University / Founder of hsquizbowl.org
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Yeah, but it seems like the response is not from the presence of the CAIR (which would be a pretty valid reason to be upset from the bit I've read) but of MUSLIMS~!
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

leftsaidfred wrote:Since this is a forum about learning, I think we should have a thread about learning about people who do not do a good job with the whole learning thing but are in positions in power in the system responsible for education.
May I suggest cracking open any journal published by nearly any college of education.

As a lecturing professor from the University of Colorado once said in an opening day talk at our school (very close paraphrase): "Some 80-90% of research proposals in education are validated through research, compared to a mere 20% in the physical sciences. This alone shows the great power of educational research."

Colleges of education should be outlawed.
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Tegan wrote:
leftsaidfred wrote:Since this is a forum about learning, I think we should have a thread about learning about people who do not do a good job with the whole learning thing but are in positions in power in the system responsible for education.
May I suggest cracking open any journal published by nearly any college of education.

As a lecturing professor from the University of Colorado once said in an opening day talk at our school (very close paraphrase): "Some 80-90% of research proposals in education are validated through research, compared to a mere 20% in the physical sciences. This alone shows the great power of educational research."

Colleges of education should be outlawed.
So the guy was saying that educational research is vastly superior to physical science research?
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

leftsaidfred wrote:So the guy was saying that educational research is vastly superior to physical science research?
That is exactly what this Doctor of Education was saying.

Again, and I repeat to avoid ambiguity, colleges of education should be burned to the ground. The ashes should then be placed into vacuum sealed containers, and fired into the center of the galaxy where they can harm no one, forever.
User avatar
ValenciaQBowl
Auron
Posts: 2558
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: Orlando, Florida

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by ValenciaQBowl »

Tegan wrote:
Again, and I repeat to avoid ambiguity, colleges of education should be burned to the ground. The ashes should then be placed into vacuum sealed containers, and fired into the center of the galaxy where they can harm no one, forever.
But then where would all the best-looking sorority girls at the University of Florida (and probably state schools everywhere) matriculate?

Of course, Tom is correct. My wife got her Ed.D, and we were both amazed and disappointed by the level of writing and research expected from her. But that doctorate money is certainly appreciated.
Chris Borglum
Valencia College Grand Poobah
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080606/ap_ ... FDS5dH2ocA

You can bet some assistant principal with a degree in educashun was responsible.
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 5085
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Stained Diviner »

This is my lucky day. First, somebody asked my wife if I was her son, and now this. My best friend from college graduated from Westlake HS. I've been meaning to call him the last few weeks.
David Reinstein
Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo, Masonics, and IESA; TD for Scobol Solo and Reinstein Varsity; IHSSBCA Board Member; IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014); PACE President (2016-2018)
User avatar
The Toad to Wigan Pier
Tidus
Posts: 528
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:58 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by The Toad to Wigan Pier »

I'm curious to see how this educator turns out:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html
William Butler
UVA '11
Georgia Tech 13
User avatar
sabine01
Tidus
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:31 pm
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by sabine01 »

Facial hair banned in New Mexico School District. Tom Selleck could not be reached for comment.
Tricia Southard Greenstein, MLS
Furman '01 | GWU Staff | Maryland '10

I don't care whose fault this was, just get it sorted! And could someone please bring me something deep fat fried and smothered in chocolate?! ~ Fairy Godmother, "Shrek 2"
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Hooray pointless rules.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

They needed to pass this in the junior high schools? Is Lon Chaney's great-grandkids attending or something?
User avatar
lasercats
Tidus
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 6:11 pm
Location: Tulsa/Norman OK.

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by lasercats »

Apparently my high school just made some rule that guys' t shirts have to be tucked in, to prevent thuggetry. Apparently shirt tails make all the difference.

I had a middle school English/Geography/whatever teacher who introduced herself to our parents on Back-to-school night and said "What a difference a year makes-last year I was the Clinique lady at Dillards, and now I'm teaching your children!" The only thing I learned in that class was that if you had a fine at one Blockbuster, it didn't show up if you went to another location. That rule doesn't even apply anymore. :(

Yay for fine Oklahoma edumacation!
Maggie Larkin
Booker T. Washington '07
University of Oklahoma '11
User avatar
Matthew D
Yuna
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Scenic Grant Alabama

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Matthew D »

Geez, people like that make my head hurt...from just thinking about how convoluted their thoughts have got to be at any given moment.
What is the purpose of the facial hair ban? Crap, I would have been out of their quick due to my cheesy mustache I had in 8th grade. I also know this 4th grader that has a very good dark 'stache going right now.. guess he will have to start shaving so :shock:
Matt Dennis
Coach DAR Quizbowl Team
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

lasercats wrote:Apparently my high school just made some rule that guys' t shirts have to be tucked in, to prevent thuggetry. Apparently shirt tails make all the difference.
We still have a few teachers at Maine South who were there before the dress code was changed around 1981 ... ladies had to wear skirts .... gentleman had to wear shirts tucked in, and slacks (I think jeans for the gentlemen were finally permitted in the 70s).

No shorts. Even when the school had zero air conditioning.

Of course, that was back when there was a small closed off area of the teachers lounge so that the few non-smokers could eat in peace.
User avatar
Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat
Rikku
Posts: 435
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:16 pm
Location: Midland, MI

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Quantum Mushroom Billiard Hat »

Over the summer before my Junior year of high school, I tested out of English III. When I went to school that fall, I was still enrolled in an English III class, rather than being automatically moved to something else. I sent an email to my counselor explaining the situation later that afternoon. The following day he replied, saying something to the extent of "Hi Michael. You have English III with Ms. Hoppe during 2nd hour. Enjoy!"
I wish I could find the email.
Michael Hausinger
Coach, Bay City Western High School
formerly of University of Michigan and East Lansing High School
User avatar
cvdwightw
Auron
Posts: 3291
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Southern CA
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by cvdwightw »

Awesomely terrible educational anecdotes (warning: private school bashing ahead):

One of my friends, who has since graduated from Stanford, was rejected by the local parochial school, whose amazing educational program touts their occasional National Hispanic Scholar. In a stunning display of administrative incompetence, about a week after receiving the rejection letter, she received another letter informing her that she had been accepted into the school's Honors English program.

My sophomore year, despite taking five core courses (math, science, history, English, French) and three after-school electives, my parents decided that I needed another course in seventh period (because of the school's weird block schedule, "zero period" was actually "first period", homeroom was "third period", and "seventh period" was the last regular class on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, so I did not actually have a "full" regular schedule). I was somewhat aware of the existence of a seventh-period AP Music Theory class that ultimately had about ten kids in it (the class itself was also awesomely terrible; on the first semester final exam, the instructor referred to Mozart's "Abduction from the Seraglio" as "Turkish Bath"); however, when my parents called the school to see what seventh period classes were available, they were told that the only seventh-period course with openings was Construction Technology.
Dwight Wynne
socalquizbowl.org
UC Irvine 2008-2013; UCLA 2004-2007; Capistrano Valley High School 2000-2003

"It's a competition, but it's not a sport. On a scale, if football is a 10, then rowing would be a two. One would be Quiz Bowl." --Matt Birk on rowing, SI On Campus, 10/21/03

"If you were my teammate, I would have tossed your ass out the door so fast you'd be emitting Cerenkov radiation, but I'm not classy like Dwight." --Jerry
User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

We may have a winner here, ladies and gentlemen.
Report: Ohio teacher burned cross on kids' arms
Jun 20 02:58 PM US/Eastern

MOUNT VERNON, Ohio (AP) - A public school teacher preached his Christian beliefs despite complaints by other teachers and administrators and used a device to burn the image of a cross on students' arms, according to a report by independent investigators.

Mount Vernon Middle School teacher John Freshwater also taught creationism in his science class and was insubordinate in failing to remove a Bible and other religious materials from his classroom, the report said.

School board members were scheduled to meet Friday afternoon to discuss the findings by consulting firm H.R. On Call Inc., hired by the district to investigate. The report was released Thursday.

School Superintendent Stephen Short wouldn't comment on the report before Friday's meeting, his office said. A message seeking comment was left for Freshwater's attorney, Roger Weaver.

The report comes one week after a family filed a federal lawsuit in Columbus against Freshwater and the school district, saying Freshwater burned a cross on their child's arm that remained for three or four weeks.

Freshwater's friend Dave Daubenmire defended him.

"With the exception of the cross-burning episode ... I believe John Freshwater is teaching the values of the parents in the Mount Vernon school district," he told The Columbus Dispatch in a story published Friday.

Several students interviewed by investigators described Freshwater, who has been employed by the school district for 21 years, as a great guy.

But Lynda Weston, the district's director of teaching and learning, told investigators that she has dealt with complaints about Freshwater for much of her 11-year term at the district, the report said.

A former superintendent, Jeff Maley, said he tried to find another position for Freshwater but couldn't because Freshwater was certified only in science, the report said.

Freshwater used a science tool known as a high-frequency generator to burn images of a cross on students' arms in December, the report said. Freshwater told investigators he simply was trying to demonstrate the device on several students and described the images as an "X," not a cross. But pictures show the images depict a cross, the report said.

Other findings show that Freshwater taught that carbon dating was unreliable to argue against evolution.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
User avatar
Blackboard Monitor Vimes
Auron
Posts: 2362
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:40 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Blackboard Monitor Vimes »

How has that guy not been fired?
Sam L,
Maggie L. Walker Governor's School 2010 / UVA 2014 / VCU School of Education 2016
PACE
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

Every time someone approaches him to tell him, he just turns the generator on them.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

MLWGS-Gir wrote:How has that guy not been fired?
I would suspect, that like in many districts, this is administrators either being too lazy to do the paperwork, or there may be enough "influence" in the school board/ community to support not firing him. In other words: any admin who chooses to pursue this could be in trouble from above.

That is not a justification ... I would just suspect that one or more of these might be the reason.

This is where publicity becomes an important issue: once this goes public, it becomes harder for people in higher power to shield him from being fired. If this is all true, he needs to go ..... fast.
User avatar
Stained Diviner
Auron
Posts: 5085
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:08 am
Location: Chicagoland
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Stained Diviner »

He gone! Though he still gets a hearing to question his dismissal.

Here's another bit of total idiocy.
On a Monday morning in May, California highway patrol officers stopped by several classrooms at El Camino High School in Oceanside to deliver some grim news: 26 classmates had been killed in car accidents over the weekend.

The news stunned the El Camino students. Some wept uncontrollably. Some became physically ill.

Pause here to let the grim toll sink in . . .

Ha ha! They made it up!

Nobody died. The whole thing was cooked up by school officials as a way to open students' eyes to the dangers of drinking and driving.
David Reinstein
Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo, Masonics, and IESA; TD for Scobol Solo and Reinstein Varsity; IHSSBCA Board Member; IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014); PACE President (2016-2018)
User avatar
AKKOLADE
Sin
Posts: 15783
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:08 am

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by AKKOLADE »

I swear that the people who are in charge of these things get lines of cocaine as part of their pay packages.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
User avatar
First Chairman
Auron
Posts: 3651
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 8:21 pm
Location: Fairfax VA
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by First Chairman »

"They were traumatized, but we wanted them to be traumatized," ... "That's how they get the message."
I'm like... there are much, MUCH better ways to deliver the message. Geez... get an encased crushed car like other advocacy groups like MADD do.
Emil Thomas Chuck, Ph.D.
Founder, PACE
Facebook junkie and unofficial advisor to aspiring health professionals in quiz bowl
---
Pimping Green Tea Ginger Ale (Canada Dry)
User avatar
Down and out in Quintana Roo
Auron
Posts: 2907
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Camden, DE
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Here's another update on Freshwater.
The results of the investigation that the school board in Mt. Vernon, Ohio ordered regarding John Freshwater are out. You can see the entire report here. The school board confirmed pretty much every allegation against him. All that crap about a Bible on his desk wasn't even close. The students reported that he told them which things in the science book were not supported by the Bible and that they should therefore doubt and had them say "here" back to him when they got to one of those things (like radiometric dating, for instance).

And that's not the half of it. He kept creationist books and videos in his classroom, including at least one video and one book by Kent Hovind. He also kept the book Refuting Evolution there. Parents showed the investigators handouts from religious groups slamming evolution and claiming that dinosaurs and humans lived together, among other things. And here's a new allegation not previously heard, from a substitute teacher in his class talking about what was in his class plans for that day:

"The lesson of the day had been on the creation of the universe. John talked about how the textbook could be wrong. He said, 'Let me give you an example of how science can be wrong.' He then went on to say that an article in Time magazine a few years back stated that scientists had found a genetic link to homosexuality. 'In that case science is wrong because the Bible states that homosexuality is a sin' and so anyone who is gay chooses to be gay and therefore is a sinner. My reaction was one of disbelief that he was saying these things to eighth graders. I thought of how those two or three students in that classroom who might be struggling with their sexual identities would be feeling, hearing that they were sinners from a teacher. ... I was surprised at how comfortable John was talking about the Bible stating that homosexuality is a sin, and that anyone who is gay makes a conscious choice to be so. ... He had no problem declaring that not only can science be wrong by the example he gave, but heavily implied that the students' textbook was wrong as well on how the universe was created."

They also had reports from all the high school science teachers talking about how every year they had to reteach basic science for the kids who had Freshwater as a teacher, that those kids came to high school steeped in creationist material and very hostile toward evolution and practically all of modern science. In fact, even the high school principal refused to let her daughter be taught by the guy:

The High School Principal said that Mr. Freshwater has caused issues for her high school teachers in having to reeducate students from his teachings. The specific issues include a number of areas -- his failure to follow the curriculum regarding teaching creationism/intelligent design rather than evolution and his teaching of the Periodic Table, as examples. The High School Principal specifically asked that her daughter not be assigned to Mr. Freshwater for her 8th grade science due to her concern about his teaching not being consistent with the curriculum.

And yes, they confirmed the cross burning on kids' arms, something he apparently did to dozens of kids over the years.

The scuttlebutt in the community, I am told by someone who lives there, is that the school board is going to fire Freshwater tomorrow. Stay tuned for the religious right freakout as soon as that happens. But this guy should have been fired years ago. This is absolutely appalling.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008 ... r.php#more
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

Caesar Rodney HS wrote:The scuttlebutt in the community, I am told by someone who lives there, is that the school board is going to fire Freshwater tomorrow. Stay tuned for the religious right freakout as soon as that happens. But this guy should have been fired years ago. This is absolutely appalling.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008 ... r.php#more[/quote]

1. If the religious right shows up to defend this guy, they are so far barking up the wrong tree that I invite them because they are going to look so bad. Remember: their current strategy is all about subtlety .... they want their beliefs to be masqueraded as science. This guy was obvious, overt, and the exact opposite of that current strategy. I think a few hard core types may protest, but do not expect a massive outpouring.

2. The real crime here is not so much one looney toon spouting off his personal visions as dogmatic truth, but that this went on for years and no one stopped him. That is the real crime in education: not getting rid of the bad apples. If he was being protected, then those folks need to be excised from the system. If it was laziness, then the administrators who let him go are equally to blame as this guy.
evilmonkey
Yuna
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:23 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by evilmonkey »

Tegan wrote: 1. If the religious right shows up to defend this guy, they are so far barking up the wrong tree that I invite them because they are going to look so bad.
I agree that they would be out of line to support him, and I hope they do not - its people like him that give rise to the belief that you cannot be intelligent and Christian.
2. The real crime here is ...that this went on for years and no one stopped him.
Almost a QFT, but to say that that was the real crime does a lot to undermine just how horribly nutjobbish this guy is.
Bryce Durgin
Culver Academies '07
University of Notre Dame '11
Texas A&M '15
User avatar
Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN)
Chairman of Anti-Music Mafia Committee
Posts: 5647
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:46 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Well, I would say burning crosses into the arms of students is a crime too.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

Bryce, CDfNKC .... I 100% agree. this dude is getting thrown out, and he is lucky that is all he is getting done to him.

I wasn't trying to be an apologist or absolve him of one iota of blame. I was just saying that, baring being roadblocked from the Board, the administration was complicit in this, in that they knew something was up, and did not take action to stop it.
User avatar
cvdwightw
Auron
Posts: 3291
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Southern CA
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by cvdwightw »

The "breaking news" aspect is a little old but it's going to pick up again in a few months, so I thought I'd put this out there:

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/ne ... plaint.pdf

Obviously I have a certain bias to the whole thing (for part of the reason, see my signature). I present this without any background/relevant outside facts (of which I know quite a bit) or personal bias, so that people without the same "goggles" on can make up their own mind.

If nothing else, check out 14a-i.
Dwight Wynne
socalquizbowl.org
UC Irvine 2008-2013; UCLA 2004-2007; Capistrano Valley High School 2000-2003

"It's a competition, but it's not a sport. On a scale, if football is a 10, then rowing would be a two. One would be Quiz Bowl." --Matt Birk on rowing, SI On Campus, 10/21/03

"If you were my teammate, I would have tossed your ass out the door so fast you'd be emitting Cerenkov radiation, but I'm not classy like Dwight." --Jerry
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

cvdwightw wrote:If nothing else, check out 14a-i.
First, if these allegations are true, the man gets fired. This is really uncalled for.

I think one of the things that teachers should worry about in the classroom are personal bias .... its a big issue in classes like social studies and literature classes , but it can crop up anywhere. For one thing, that is where the teacher crosses the line between "education" and "indoctrination". That isn't to say that we need to worry about every student instantly believing what an authority figure says, but it (as the lawsuit alleges) creates a hostile atmosphere. It would be no different if this teacher started spouting off opinions that were anti-homosexual or anti-Muslim. Teachers need to know: public school classrooms are not pulpits.

That isn't to say that teachers can't give a personal opinion .... but it should be clearly labeled as such, should not be more than an aside, and should darn well not be one that is going to make any students feel like you are being hostile to them.
evilmonkey
Yuna
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:23 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by evilmonkey »

Tegan wrote:
cvdwightw wrote:If nothing else, check out 14a-i.
First, if these allegations are true, the man gets fired. This is really uncalled for.

I think one of the things that teachers should worry about in the classroom are personal bias .... its a big issue in classes like social studies and literature classes , but it can crop up anywhere. For one thing, that is where the teacher crosses the line between "education" and "indoctrination". That isn't to say that we need to worry about every student instantly believing what an authority figure says, but it (as the lawsuit alleges) creates a hostile atmosphere. It would be no different if this teacher started spouting off opinions that were anti-homosexual or anti-Muslim. Teachers need to know: public school classrooms are not pulpits.

That isn't to say that teachers can't give a personal opinion .... but it should be clearly labeled as such, should not be more than an aside, and should darn well not be one that is going to make any students feel like you are being hostile to them.
Has this guy ever been reprimanded by the administration? If so, then perhaps you fire him. If not, you need to make sure he knows his behavior is not okay. I know some AP teachers I had seemed like they felt that since they are teaching an AP, the students are intelligent, and they feel they can be more outspoken because the students can form their own opinions. Did the kid ever speak up against him? In such a situation, the student should feel justified with started a debate with the teacher.

This guy said some outrageous things, but it doesn't sound like he's teaching contrary to the curriculum, nor is he burning anti-crosses into peoples arms or anything.
Bryce Durgin
Culver Academies '07
University of Notre Dame '11
Texas A&M '15
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

evilmonkey wrote:[Has this guy ever been reprimanded by the administration? If so, then perhaps you fire him. If not, you need to make sure he knows his behavior is not okay.
Not only a good point, but there may be some legal basis for that as well. I don't know what the tenure laws are like out there.

But this goes back to the point I brought up about the previous nut job ..... if there have been repeated student/parent complaints about this guy, and the school refused to act, then the school should bear the brunt of the responsibility, especially if this guy is out of reach.

Bryce, you also bring up the AP teachers bringing up controversial topics in class because the students are smarter and such. Not only is that fine, but I would hope that controversial topics in history and contemporary society are very much a part of the curriculum. However, there's a world of difference between "Let's talk about the separation of church and state", or "Let's discuss the downside of the Catholic Church's Inquisition" and "All religion is bad, and let me tell you why that is factual."

Again, this is all dependent on whether this guy actually did these things, or not.
User avatar
Howard
Tidus
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Howard »

evilmonkey wrote:I know some AP teachers I had seemed like they felt that since they are teaching an AP, the students are intelligent, and they feel they can be more outspoken because the students can form their own opinions.
I'd agree with something like this in a setting where was having a discussion to learn about different beliefs. Even in such a situation, it should be made clear that the task at hand is to learn about and respect the beliefs of others, rather than simply to gather facts.
John Gilbert
Coach, Howard High School Academic Team
Ellicott City, MD

"John Gilbert is a quiz bowl god" -- leftsaidfred
User avatar
rchschem
Yuna
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:36 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by rchschem »

Deesy Does It wrote:Well, I would say burning crosses into the arms of students is a crime too.
Thank you for bringing this up. I couldn't believe how this article was all about his religious beliefs in the classroom. HELLO! He was burning his students' arms with a freaking Tesla coil! It doesn't matter if he's Stephen Jay Freaking Gould (no relation) teaching biology.

And where can I get some Jesus glasses? I'll bet you can see through walls with them.
Eric Grunden, Research Triangle High School/NCATA
User avatar
Captain Sinico
Auron
Posts: 2675
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:46 pm
Location: Champaign, Illinois

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Captain Sinico »

Howard wrote:...the task at hand is to learn about and respect the beliefs of others...
I don't believe that's the role of the study of history at all.

Also, I don't really see what's so wrong with what this dude is alleged to have said.

MaS
Mike Sorice
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

ImmaculateDeception wrote:
Howard wrote:...the task at hand is to learn about and respect the beliefs of others...
I don't believe that's the role of the study of history at all.

Also, I don't really see what's so wrong with what this dude is alleged to have said.

MaS
I'm not sure about what I feel about his statements, for a couple of reasons. I see nothing wrong with many of the actual beliefs he espoused. Granted, I also am at some basic level, one that I can't verbalize, a little disturbed that he espoused his beliefs so explicitly in the classroom. On the other hand, I think an argument can be made that those biases would simply be masked and more dangerous otherwise, and having them out in the open is better for their learning.
Andrew Watkins
User avatar
Matthew D
Yuna
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Scenic Grant Alabama

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Matthew D »

I am wondering if he was taking the devil's advocate position on some of the statements attempting to get a reaction out of his class or at least attempting to get the individuals to think about what they thought on the subject. Also, I would have loved to see/hear the rest of the class discussion and not just the "sound bite" version that the lawyers are attempting to spin..
Matt Dennis
Coach DAR Quizbowl Team
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

ImmaculateDeception wrote:Also, I don't really see what's so wrong with what this dude is alleged to have said.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:You have to have something that is irrational to counter that rational approach ... [W]hen you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth.
This quote is flat out insulting to any student who happens to be Christian ..... if it had been a Christian teacher saying something about atheists being evil or stupid or some such, the statement would have been equally inappropriate. Not to mention, the implication is: any Christian cannot see the truth. That is a fault of logic, strictly an opinion being masqueraded as a fact.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:... in the industrialized world the people least likely to go to church are the Swedes. The people in the industrialized world most likely to go to church are the Americans. America has the highest crime rate of all industrialized nations, and Sweden the lowest ..... the next time sombody tells you religion is connected with morality, you might ask them about that."
I won't debate the whole religion-morality thing because plenty of church going people have had the morality of slugs, and plenty of people ho don't are moral by about any definition. I will get him on his social studies facts here. Depending on your definition of "industrialized nations", and I could only find the most recent U.N. numbers on murder ....

the Ukraine, Lithuania, Mexico, Russia, and Brazil all rank ahead of the U.S.
Slovakia, Czech Republic, South Korea, Hungary, the U.K, Canada, Croatia, Portugal, Poland, France, Belgium, Slovenia, New Zealand, Syria, Australia, Japan, Indonesia, Iceland, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Ireland, Austria, Denmark, Norway, and Greece all rank below Sweden.

Now, some of this data may very well be out of date by now, could be off, and we all know there are 101 reasons why these numbers could be this way. But simply trying to infer that: more involvement in religion = more crime and less involvement in religion = more crime is as much a dumb thing to say as "atheists are evil".

Again, it depends on what you mean by "industrialized" .... he might have meant "Western" ... but I would figure that a social studies teacher would know the difference.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:some biology lesson that turns into something really off the beaten path
I'm not going to disagree with some of what he says here .... sure there are many reasons for girls/women to take birth control pills. Sure, a girl who goes in to get said pills from a clinic for reasons other than preventing birth is extremely unlikely to go home and start calling available boys out of convenience. However, I think this is apples and oranges. The student question implies "For girls who want to experiment with sex, won't this make them more likely to", and he goes off on a tangent to defend himself.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:Parents are pretty irresponsible."
So are politicians, ministers, construction workers, airline pilots, doctors, lawyers, school administrators, pharmacists, taxi drivers, loggers, steamsship captains, cartoon animators, deep sea divers, children, and uh .... teachers. We all are at time to time. Are parents? Sure! I've met lots of what I would consider irresponsible parents. That doesn't mean I publicly blanket them all as being irresponsible.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:...spending billions of dollars on something they know doesn't work
I don't have a source on this, but billions????? I think this guy either really doesn't know what he is talking about, or is making up facts to support his ideas. He cane hold a belief, but if he starts spouting it as fact with made up evidence to support it, that's just (drum roll) irresponsible!
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:My mother has a solution to this problem. And I'm sure the girls were careful. My mother thinks that all boys when they reach puberty, should be given a reversible vasectomy ..."
I can only hope this is a joke, but given some other claims, it is hard to tell.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:... Conservatives don't want women to avoid pregnancies.
Not a valid statement. Aspects of the religious right may want this, but I would think that if you polled people identifying themselves as "consrevative", they would not be even close to agreeing with this. He is trying to paint with a broad brush, and appears to be teaching it as dogmatic fact.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:...That upset a lot of Catholics, trying to get people to tolerate other religions.
Given that this flows from Rush Limbaugh in the previous sentence, while I cannot speak for every Catholic, I can guarranfrickintee that this is pretty far from the truth. That may (very sadly) not have been the truth for several centuries, but religious toleration is pretty high on the priorities of what is being taught today.
If I am putting this out of context, then this is a pretty difficult rant to follow.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:The first person to leave this room for lunch, who comes back with either alcohol or marijuana will get an 'A' for the year ...... So the illegal substance is more available to you than the legal substance (goes on to make some rambling connection to the legal system(
So, I'm in school, and the offer is which is easier to obtain? Well, I'm pretty certain that most American schools do not have a lot of "alcohol dealers". I'm sure that the chances of me seeing some kid with his locker open and selling six packets of Old Style is slim to none. That's because is argument is a fallacy. In fact, alcohol is much easier to get. It just may not be easier to get all of the time.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:So we know that rehabilitation works, and punishment doesn't
Again, a fallacy that is painting with a broad brush. Certainly punishment works if it is severe enough, which will never happen in most democracies; our constitution specifically forbids cruel punishment. There are non-lethal forms of punishment that, if utilized (cruel as they may be) can be wonderful deterrents to some crimes. Of course it would never be tolerated. Certainly rehabilitation can work under some circumstances. There are aspects of the American penal system that permit for true rehabilitation, though it is certainly the minority.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:What part of the country has the highest murder rate? The South...In those places where people go to church the least, the crime is the most
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 8s0301.pdf
Top ten states by murder rate (I'll through out DC, which is the only area with a murder rate over 10-per-100,000 ... it was at 35)
Louisiana, Maryland, Nevada, Alabama, Arizona, California, Arkansas, Missouri, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee

I won't debate that depending on how your break up the country, the deep south has a higher murder rate than other parts of the country, but I think it is misleading to imply that the south is a bastion of murder because of their stricter penal policies. One could easily note that Texas, Virginia, and Oklahoma, the states that have put more people to death since 1976, are not on this list. Expand the list down to Missouri, Florida, North Carolina, and Georgia, and five of the top seven states more likely to put someone to death are not on that list. I'm not trying to argue in favor of capital punishment (I'm not in favor of it myself), but this guy is making classically poor arguments, and it looks like he is trying to pass them off as fact.
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:And that's not just Sweden and the United States. That's Pennsylvania and Georgia
From the same source as above (all rates are crime-per-100,000)
murder -- Georgia: 6, Pennsylvania: 6
rape -- Georgia: 24, Pennsylvania: 29
robbery -- Georgia: 155, Pennsylvania: 155
aggravated assault -- Georgia: 264, Pennsylvania:235

This shows that they are pretty comparable. If the point here is to get your facts straight and get the truth across, don't start making up statistical data to prove your point, or just as bad, assume you know what the data should be, and spout it of as the gospel truth. That's the problem I have with a teacher like this. Not only does he make a certain percent of his students uncomfortable by attacking their personal beliefs with what looks like straw man arguments, but he makes up information to fit his philosophy (we all do that from time to time), but then disseminates it as of it were as factual as saying that Titanic hit an iceberg.
User avatar
cvdwightw
Auron
Posts: 3291
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 12:46 am
Location: Southern CA
Contact:

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by cvdwightw »

Student on Bill O'Reilly

For full disclosure, I TOOK THAT CLASS WITH THAT TEACHER DURING THE 2000 ELECTION, where he almost certainly said things that were even more baseless and I heard absolutely nothing from students about how they were offended by this. In all honesty, this is what he does: he spends the first 10-30 minutes of each class period presenting articles about important events going on in the nation/world from several different papers (both local and national), then giving his opinion on the issue. In terms of his attacks on "conservatives", I believe he was deeply affected by a 1960s movement to oust a teacher who was an ACLU member as well as his experience teaching in Beirut in the 1980s (cf. http://www.ocweekly.com/features/featur ... ves/28692/) and for these reasons he is rabidly anti-extreme-social-conservative, which he calls "conservative". Obviously not all conservatives are extreme social conservatives. And yes, he does say a lot of this because he knows he's in a conservative hotbed and wants to provoke a response from some of his students, the intended one being shock that leads to a thoughtful reflection on a student's beliefs and his/her place in the world. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what he's saying, and I don't know that he was right to say some of those things, but I think the alternative is worse. This would provide legal precedent for the teaching of creationism/intelligent design. If a student claims, "evolution is only one side of the issue and I'm failing the evolution unit because I don't believe in evolution and I felt embarrassed because the teacher told me that creationism was a lie and if you believe in creationism that you can't see the truth about evolution, so my mom told me that I should just record him talking about evolution because I'm too scared to give a well-reasoned argument about creationism", that currently doesn't hold any water in the courts, but I can see where if the student wins this case that there is suddenly legal precedent that makes it okay for a conservative judge to force the teaching of creationism as an "alternate viewpoint" because teaching kids that creationism is not a scientifically acceptable theory alienates Christians.

I actually find the "Jesus Glasses" comment to be the most acceptable, because this occurred during a discussion of Joseph II's reform policies. Joseph II made several reforms that were economically in the peasants' best interest, but he also tried to reform the church, and this pissed off the peasants, so he was unpopular among the peasants. That's all the Jesus Glasses meant - that these peasants were so "blind" that they failed to see that the economic reform was in their best interest. Maybe he crossed the line when he then compared these Austrian peasants to poor people in red states whose economic and political views correspond much more to moderate or liberal "agendas" but who are so "blinded" by these "Jesus Glasses" that the only issues that matter to them are abortion and whether or not people believe every word in the Bible is literally true.

For the record, Tom, my class answered "pot" to that question. And Matthew, I don't know what the actual responses of his current students are, but here is the response from several students and alumni: this rally (yeah, half the article covers the "about 10" people who were counter-protesting, so it's not the best source) and this Facebook group - this group was entirely spread via "Facebook" word of mouth, and yes, that Corbett in the "admins" section is his daughter, who also happens to be an former student of his and former classmate of mine who attended Berkeley and then noted Jesuit school Boston College, and was not involved at all in its creation (she was made an admin so that she can keep all of us in the group updated at once). Another interesting defense was provided by a former student of his, current colleague, and either current or former head of a local FCA chapter (http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/op ... 941839.php).

Additional facts: the teacher was named as a defendant in a 1993 suit in which a biology teacher alleged that other teachers were "forcing" him to teach evolution. The student taped a lecture on the advice of his mother, possibly without the knowledge of the teacher, in October. During October, somewhere above 50% of the class is "failing" because they have yet to achieve the level of critical reading and essay writing skills needed to have a good chance to pass the AP Exam, which level is the standard of expectation in that class (if you don't believe me, I'll see if I can find a copy of either my or one of my brothers' old summer handouts "How to Succeed in AP European History"). By December, the people who are willing to put in the work to get to that level stay in, the people who don't drop, and everyone is happy (notably, the teacher continues with 4 periods of students, but now there's 20-25 kids in each instead of 30-35).

Almost every student who stays in the class realizes, either eventually on their own or more quickly on advice from their or their friends' older siblings, that this high early fail rate is precisely a "scare tactic" designed to weed out the students who aren't going to put in the necessary work, and so they put in the necessary work and they get A's or B's either on their own or with the help of grade incentives offered for passing the AP Test. A lot of former students, myself included, believe that the lawsuit is not about being made "uncomfortable" for having Christian beliefs, but instead a result of him or his parents freaking out about his grade after four weeks and finding something external to blame it on.

From an objective point of view - AP test pass rate - he is among the best in the state at teaching AP European History; from a subjective point of view, he is one of the most popular teachers on campus and the number of alumni who have come out either in rallies or on the facebook group to claim that the class was a positive experience that challenged them to think shows that this extends far beyond the high school.

I think this is an important issue of the actual case - this is just the latest in a series of ridiculous shenanigans in a three-year battle between the school district and hardcore conservative people living in the district.

It all stems from the need to open up the district's sixth high school to alleviate mass overcrowding. In 2005 the school district drew up new boundaries, which "forced" rich white communities and poor Mexican communities to go to the same school. Needless to say, some parents did not like this alleged "enforced diversity" and sued the district.

Meanwhile, attention was drawn to allegedly environmentally unsafe schools in the district, at the same time that the school board was approving a new $38 million office building to replace their cramped facility (having been there, the old place was not somewhere you wanted to work; then again, you didn't want to work at those schools either).

These two events warp drived a fledgling recall movement. In 2006 they attempted to get all seven members of the school board recalled in a special election. They claimed to have the requisite number of signatures, but the registrar of voters threw out about 50,000 signatures because the signers did not fill out their names and addresses themselves (the recall movement claimed that they had been misinformed by an election official who told them that the signature gatherers could add this information after the signature had been obtained).

Anyway, this is about the point where the shit hit the fan. The registrar of voters then allegedly leaked one of the petitions to district employees, resulting in the formation of a district "enemies list" that included the mayor of one of the local cities.

Meanwhile, school board minutes revealed that the board may have been in violation of the Brown Act and discussed behind closed doors stuff such as how long to let a recall supporter speak at a subsequent meeting. In addition, the superintendent faced allegations of nepotism after his son was found to work for a company that had obtained a district construction contract.

The superintendent resigned in August 2006 (he and another employee were indicted in May 2007 for their involvement in the enemies list scandal; the board voted to pay for his attorney, then later revoked that vote, but that's a whole different story).

In the November 2006 election three members of the school boards' terms had expired. The recall people, despited being linked to the pro-school-voucher Education Alliance, combined forces with the teacher's union, who had reached an impasse in contract negotiations (notably, the Education Alliance claims that teachers unions should never have influence over anything) to oust those three members. Things didn't get better, they got worse, as now the infighting spread directly to school board meetings. At least one hired superintendent quit within days of being hired due to realizing there was no way he could work in that environment.

In July 2007 the recall people started a petition to get rid of the remaining four non-recall-supporting school board members. When this failed, they modified their approach and decided to focus on the two members they thought they had the best shot at removing.

In March 2008 the registrar confirmed there were enough valid signatures to hold a special recall election, costing (somebody, I'm not sure who) about $776,000, for those two seats, which will be up for election in November anyway, and in which election at least one of the current trustees has decided not to run. So tomorrow, I'm going home, and voting "no" on the recall, not because I think the "original" trustees are doing a great job (I don't think that at all), but because I'm fearful of what might happen if this new recall slate gains a majority on the board.

You can visit http://www.cusdrecall.com/ to view the side of the recall people. Unfortunately, there is no centralized website for anti-recall people like myself. This whole district is one gigantic mess, and since this is the Stupid Educators thread and not the Stupidity in Local Government thread I'm not going to bother making my post any longer by detailing all the ridiculousness that's been going on for the past 10 or so years with the local City Council.

So, in summary: I support Dr. Corbett, not because I think what he did was necessarily right, but because I think the response is more wrong than the actual alleged insult, and that the reason for the lawsuit may in fact be a thinly disguised effort offer a different reason for dropping the course and thus not "losing face" in the eyes of college admissions officers. Also, this is just one of a series of actions undertaken by the local social conservative movement with the unilateral purpose of advancing their goals (which may or may not, I'm leading towards may, involve the undermining of public education), which when coupled with the incompetency of the school board in responding to this challenge by just continuing to fan their flames, makes the situation even worse. Obviously, I have a personal interest in this case, which I'm not going to get into entirely, but beyond any personal interest I am honestly afraid for the state of public education if the recall and suit both succeed and other socially conservative areas start realizing that they, too, can hijack public education to suit their agendas.
Dwight Wynne
socalquizbowl.org
UC Irvine 2008-2013; UCLA 2004-2007; Capistrano Valley High School 2000-2003

"It's a competition, but it's not a sport. On a scale, if football is a 10, then rowing would be a two. One would be Quiz Bowl." --Matt Birk on rowing, SI On Campus, 10/21/03

"If you were my teammate, I would have tossed your ass out the door so fast you'd be emitting Cerenkov radiation, but I'm not classy like Dwight." --Jerry
User avatar
Matthew D
Yuna
Posts: 920
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:52 pm
Location: Scenic Grant Alabama

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Matthew D »

Thanks Dwight that does shed a bit more light on the whole situation.
Matt Dennis
Coach DAR Quizbowl Team
Tegan
Coach of AHAN Jr.
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Tegan »

cvdwightw wrote:In terms of his attacks on "conservatives", I believe he was deeply affected by a 1960s movement to oust a teacher who was an ACLU member as well as his experience teaching in Beirut in the 1980s and for these reasons he is rabidly anti-extreme-social-conservative, which he calls "conservative". Obviously not all conservatives are extreme social conservatives. And yes, he does say a lot of this because he knows he's in a conservative hotbed and wants to provoke a response from some of his students, the intended one being shock that leads to a thoughtful reflection on a student's beliefs and his/her place in the world.

If you've been through this, then you certainly have a better lens on this than others. Thank you for the insight ... it helps!

All of us (and certainly teachers are no exception) have experience and baggage that we bring with us. One of the things you typically go through in teacher preparation is identifying these potential points, and deciding how you are going to deal with them ... that is, if you are going to act professional, you need to be able to decide how to deal with particular topics. For example (and this is not me) you may be from a particular background that disagrees with evolution, but you are a biology teacher. In that case, your options are limited: you don't discuss ID or creationism. You stick to the discussion of natural selection, and you do so without prejudicing the topic. If it is something that is more open to interpretation (like a history class), you may inject some opinion, labeling it clearly as opinion, and you may even from time to time get a hot topic started with some "shock" view point. That's all good. But opinion is opinion and fact is fact, and presenting one as the other is problematic.

You note there may be an ulterior motive here. It would hardly be the first time, and I after what you have said Dwight, I could certainly believe that is the case. For the moment, I'm going to assume that this is not the case, but given your insight, it very well could be.

If this is not, then there is a fundamental mistake being made by the instructor here ... one of the most common mistakes made by teachers all of the time .... one that even the most experienced teachers make: I have planned what I want to cover and what I want to say. I have had countless students tell me that "they get it". Therefore, all students "get it". That is this teacher may think that he is doing this for "shock value", "to provoke thinking", or to "generate discussion". He may have had generations of students say "Wow, that really helped me" (and I have zero doubt he has had these students), however, he jumps to the conclusion that this is a universal response. This may not be the case ..... that is there may be students who are taking his attempts to shock at face value.

cvdwightw wrote:This would provide legal precedent for the teaching of creationism/intelligent design. If a student claims, "evolution is only one side of the issue and I'm failing the evolution unit because I don't believe in evolution and I felt embarrassed because the teacher told me that creationism was a lie and if you believe in creationism that you can't see the truth about evolution, so my mom told me that I should just record him talking about evolution because I'm too scared to give a well-reasoned argument about creationism"
I and several courts disagree that this is the case. There has never been any argument, experiment, data, evidence, etc in favor of ID or Creationism. It is a philosophical argument, and nothing more. The courts have heard argument after argument on this, and there is no sign of a change in direction no matter what Florida or Kansas lawmakers do to keep their jobs. This is where science and other areas diverge: It is not science in the sense that there is no scientific backing. It does not even rise to the level of fringe science (some exotic possibility based on theory like time travel or teleportation). The courts have been clear on this: non-science is not required to be taught in a science classroom. So kids/parents/presidents can moan about not hearing the "other side" all they want. It ain't happening.

However, in the social studies area, there is room for interpretation in several areas. (Why id Henry II walk barefoot? To beg forgiveness? Forgot his shoes? Shoes too tight? OK, I kid here) There is plenty of opinion. I think one of the most critical aspects of studying history is to be able to analyze the arguments in favor of various ideas, and see which ones hold water and which ones don't. This is where this guy gets himself into a bit of trouble .... if he is presenting an argument as factual, when it is only one of many opinions (and from what it looks like, at least some of what he is saying is based on flimsy data, or just one opinion of many that is supported in the professional community).
cvdwightw wrote:I actually find the "Jesus Glasses" comment to be the most acceptable, because this occurred during a discussion of Joseph II's reform policies. Joseph II made several reforms that were economically in the peasants' best interest, but he also tried to reform the church, and this pissed off the peasants, so he was unpopular among the peasants. That's all the Jesus Glasses meant - that these peasants were so "blind" that they failed to see that the economic reform was in their best interest.
Now that's a good explanation. It is non-offensive. It is clear, articulate, and gets the point across. Hearing the clip does not make that clear. True: it is a clip. It may have been "clipped" by the recorder/his parents/his lawyers to slant this. All possibility. However, if he did not clarify what he was doing with this, it can be misinterpreted.
cvdwightw wrote:For the record, Tom, my class answered "pot" to that question.

The court record agreed. I have no doubt that this is what any class would say. But again, I think his logic is slanted.

Imagine for a moment, if he had rephrased the question:
"I will give an 'A' to anyone who brings me alcohol or pot, tomorrow. Which will be easier to get?"
I would bet the answer changes .... and it changes to defeat his purpose. Every kid could easily go him and slip a can of beer out of the refrigerator, or a bottle of win out of the cellar. He phrased his question to get a particular response that would make the class have to agree with him.

cvdwightw wrote:The student taped a lecture on the advice of his mother, possibly without the knowledge of the teacher ...
I don't know the legalities in other areas, but I am pretty sure in Illinois students are free to tape lectures, and are not required to get permission to do so (I could be wrong). One of the things that was drilled into us early in student teaching: before you open your mouth -- how will this sound when it is replayed for an administrator/parent/etc.

Dwight, I am sorry to hear about this mess. I have worked with teachers from California in workshops before; not one of them was very positive.

If I appear invested in this thread, it is because as much as I will defend my profession from people who have no clue what goes on, I really hate teachers who give us all a black eye. I'm not saying that this is the case here. I am just thinking that this guy could have thought more carefully, especially in a politically charged situation as the district seems to be in. I wish the district the best of luck.
User avatar
Howard
Tidus
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Howard »

ImmaculateDeception wrote:
Howard wrote:...the task at hand is to learn about and respect the beliefs of others...
I don't believe that's the role of the study of history at all.
On the surface, you're right. But below the surface, our everyday lives involve our abilities to understand the viewpoints of others and perform our own critical thinking tasks. Unless there's a very forward-thinking school district out there I don't know about, there is no class in high school where these things are taught and practice. Yet they're tremendously important. Being able to understand the beliefs of others, understand why these beliefs are held, and critically analyze the the consequences of these beliefs will eventually lead students to a clearer understanding of why historical events occurred and an ability to foresee heading down a similar path.

Choosing a controversial topic is one way of forcing students to take sides, discuss, and understand. Summarily dismissing others' points of view will only lead to a closed-minded analysis.
John Gilbert
Coach, Howard High School Academic Team
Ellicott City, MD

"John Gilbert is a quiz bowl god" -- leftsaidfred
User avatar
Howard
Tidus
Posts: 696
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 5:42 pm
Location: Ellicott City, MD

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Howard »

Tegan wrote:
Dr. Corbett allegedly said wrote:... in the industrialized world the people least likely to go to church are the Swedes. The people in the industrialized world most likely to go to church are the Americans. America has the highest crime rate of all industrialized nations, and Sweden the lowest ..... the next time sombody tells you religion is connected with morality, you might ask them about that."
I won't debate the whole religion-morality thing because plenty of church going people have had the morality of slugs, and plenty of people ho don't are moral by about any definition. I will get him on his social studies facts here. Depending on your definition of "industrialized nations", and I could only find the most recent U.N. numbers on murder ....

the Ukraine, Lithuania, Mexico, Russia, and Brazil all rank ahead of the U.S.
Slovakia, Czech Republic, South Korea, Hungary, the U.K, Canada, Croatia, Portugal, Poland, France, Belgium, Slovenia, New Zealand, Syria, Australia, Japan, Indonesia, Iceland, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Ireland, Austria, Denmark, Norway, and Greece all rank below Sweden.

Now, some of this data may very well be out of date by now, could be off, and we all know there are 101 reasons why these numbers could be this way. But simply trying to infer that: more involvement in religion = more crime and less involvement in religion = more crime is as much a dumb thing to say as "atheists are evil".

Again, it depends on what you mean by "industrialized" .... he might have meant "Western" ... but I would figure that a social studies teacher would know the difference.
I'll just choose this one to pick on. Even if we assume all the facts are correct, picking two points does not show a correlation, and even if there were a correlation, that doesn't imply any sort of cause-effect relationship. Nor is crime rate the opposite of morality. The whole thing is so logically flawed it's ridiculous.
John Gilbert
Coach, Howard High School Academic Team
Ellicott City, MD

"John Gilbert is a quiz bowl god" -- leftsaidfred
User avatar
Mechanical Beasts
Banned Cheater
Posts: 5673
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:50 pm

Re: Stupid educators thread

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

Howard wrote:
ImmaculateDeception wrote:
Howard wrote:...the task at hand is to learn about and respect the beliefs of others...
I don't believe that's the role of the study of history at all.
On the surface, you're right. But below the surface, our everyday lives involve our abilities to understand the viewpoints of others and perform our own critical thinking tasks. Unless there's a very forward-thinking school district out there I don't know about, there is no class in high school where these things are taught and practice. Yet they're tremendously important. Being able to understand the beliefs of others, understand why these beliefs are held, and critically analyze the the consequences of these beliefs will eventually lead students to a clearer understanding of why historical events occurred and an ability to foresee heading down a similar path.

Choosing a controversial topic is one way of forcing students to take sides, discuss, and understand. Summarily dismissing others' points of view will only lead to a closed-minded analysis.
The point isn't to learn about and respect other people's beliefs. It's much closer to what you just said: at least in part, the study of history is about learning to analyze other people's assertions and defend one's own belief, to better be able to read and understand the past and the present.

I'll Godwin this discussion. I have learned about the beliefs of the Nazi party--and also of slaveowners, of apartheid enforcers, of innumerable groups who would seek to dominate a whole group of people. I haven't learned to respect their beliefs and I will never regret it. I have considered the ways they have tried to justify their perverse beliefs, and they all suck. I've grown from considering their horrible arguments, but I respect them not.
Andrew Watkins
Locked