Do you know a Beethoven ballet about a Titan?

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If I said "name this Beethoven ballet about a Titan," would you know the answer?

Yes
18
40%
No
27
60%
 
Total votes: 45

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Matt Weiner
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Do you know a Beethoven ballet about a Titan?

Post by Matt Weiner »

I'm having a discussion over how accessible this answer is, so please vote truthfully.
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AKKOLADE
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Post by AKKOLADE »

I am a moron with classical music questions*, hence my saying no.

"Classical music" will soon prove to encompass all areas of quiz bowl.
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Post by Captain Sinico »

The "about a Titan" part is totally unessential for me to buzz off that phrase. Thank you, Fraud.

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Post by Howard »

I'm with leftsaidfred on the moron when it comes to classical anything. Thus, similarly, my no answer. I also think ImmaculateDeception may well have a valid point. I don't really know, but having never really heard of any Beethoven operas, I would guess that particular phrase already narrows the answer down rather well. Or then again, perhaps I'm simply demonstrating how big a moron I am.
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Post by Theory Of The Leisure Flask »

I probably could get it, though I do need the Titan part.

Seeing as classical music is my strongest subject, and it's at the outer boundary of my knowledge, I'd say this might be a bit obscure for most tournaments, though it should be fine as the "tough" bonus part or possibly in a hardcore setting.

But I could be wrong.
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Post by steven-lamp »

is it Fidelio, isn't that the only Beethoven opera?

EDIT: err, nevermind it says ballet... lol stupid me...

EDIT #2: wild guess, is it something to do with Cronos? lol, just saw Titan, i don't know much about mythology nor classical music but i am just taking a random stab in the dark because that's curious to me....
Last edited by steven-lamp on Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by alch2 »

erg...yeah i remember listening to the overture to this piece (i think) when i was in elementary school. it was kinda weird sounding. i don't know much about college level stuff but it seems like a tough question.
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Post by einstein must die »

i don't know.
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Post by Scipio »

Dammit, this is accessible; not only that, but wasn't it retooled for the Eroica?
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Post by jewtemplar »

I always get beethoven ballet music and incidental music mixed up. I believe he composed more than one suite of ballet music, though. However, I am an avid reader of deutsche grammaphon cd labels, so I probably know more than your average joe about classical, but I would say for college that mentioning a Titan would be too brash. meh.
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Post by QuizbowlPostmodernist »

I bet this is one of those things that is gotten more by people who study for quizbowl but whose favorite genre of music is decidedly not classical than it is gotten by people who have more than a casual interest in classical music.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Post by jewtemplar »

I dare say anyone who has tried to purchase more than one cd of beethoven symphonies is likely to have seen creatures of prometheus. I think most people with more than a casual interest in classical music may fit that description.
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Post by Howard »

Howard wrote:I'm with leftsaidfred on the moron when it comes to classical anything. Thus, similarly, my no answer. I also think ImmaculateDeception may well have a valid point. I don't really know, but having never really heard of any Beethoven operas, I would guess that particular phrase already narrows the answer down rather well. Or then again, perhaps I'm simply demonstrating how big a moron I am.
Point made. Apparently I can't even read. Opera???
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Post by jewtemplar »

I would submit that Fidelio is one of the most consistently overused clues or answers in high school quizbowl. It just plain pisses me off to hear "Beethoven opera" anywhere before the end of the question.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

jewtemplar wrote:I would submit that Fidelio is one of the most consistently overused clues or answers in high school quizbowl. It just plain pisses me off to hear "Beethoven opera" anywhere before the end of the question.
The deciding tossup of the final match in the 2000 VHSL state championship began "This Beethoven opera."

And people wonder why I disliked that tournament....
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Post by ericblair »

That was an obscure question. "The Creatures of Prometheus"
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Post by Chris Frankel »

As the main opposing party in the argument that inspired this thread, and someone with a pretty solid background in classical music (though I dislike much of Beethoven, save his violin concerto) I have to say that while this answer would be reasonable for the hard part of a bonus, I think it would be foolish to make it a tossup (which was what Weiner was going to do).

My take is that:
1. In terms of critical acclaim, performance frequency, or just "being a piece that comes to mind when you think of Beethoven," the ballet has next to nothing. The only viable non-giveaway clue I see is the little bit about the theme's re-use in the Eroica; the only other real "significance" is the bit of trivia that it is Beethoven's only ballet. Like De Jesus says, it seems that the people who would write about this are most likely people who know jack shit about classical music and just picked it off a list of Beethoven works because they thought it sounded important. It's already annoying enough that this crap has been done with Fidelio, anyway.

2. Just because an author/artist/composer is very famous does not mean that any of his creations are up for grabs as a question. Does the fact that Mozart was extremely famous mean that people should be writing tossups on his 13th symphony or his 2nd violin concerto or his intermezzo Apollo and Hyacinth (just googled for a list of works and picked off an obscure one)? Of course not. Canon expansion is a good thing, but someone who has no clue about the topic at hand arbitrarily throwing in obscurata from a list is masturbatory at best and damaging to the game at worse.

3. While people may have heard of it by sheer list memorization, how many actually know enough to get early clues? Basically you create two extremely undesirable scenarios with this tossup: either it goes dead and leaves everyone looking confused or it comes out like "blah blah blah...buzzer race!" between people who only know the giveaway.
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Post by QuizbowlPostmodernist »

Classical music is always difficult to gauge accessibility. In the first place, there are different areas of interest among fans. Some are big opera nuts. Others have the interest of a performer in particular area: choral, piano, violin, etc. Some just like listening to the "well-known" works, which generally one doesn't hear on a classical music station. I suppose there is a standard repertory of ballet that would be known by people who took ballet classes at some point in their lives, and I have no problem with rewarding those people.

In terms of accessibility, cross-disciplinary salience is a huge factor. A work becomes much more gettable if one can link it to use in a movie or on television. Then again, there are those who think that getting a classical music question merely because you bought the soundtrack to A Clockwork Orange is A Bad Thing.

I don't like canon expansion as a reward for people who study intensely merely for quizbowl's sake, but as anyone who has played on a packet by me knows, I do like canon expansion. I tend to have a didactic purpose. I don't necessarily believe that a lot of people know the things I write about, but I want to expose them to interesting things that have some academic relevance. Not necessariy the utmost important things, but sufficiently important to be of interest to some academic types and sufficiently interesting in its own right to be of interest to some non-quizbowl amateur enthusiasts. You know, the types who have a bookcase full of books on the Civil War out of personal interest. Except, I'm talking about people who have more worthwhile endeavors than minor Civil War battles and generals. (That's a topic on Weiner's list.)

In closing, I suggest people develop their own personal style in writing questions. If you have an interest in canon expansion, write about things of interest to some people, though not necessarily of personal interest to the top players and teams. If you love something, write a question on it to expose others to your interests. Just don't be predictable with the same topics coming up in your packets over and over. If you ever write an entire tournament by yourself, try doing it without writing a question on your favorite author.


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Post by steven-lamp »

well, either way, since you are asking everybody on the site, isn't the question unusable now anyway? i mean that could give somebody an unfair edge ;) lol
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Matt Weiner
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Post by Matt Weiner »

steven-lamp wrote:well, either way, since you are asking everybody on the site, isn't the question unusable now anyway? i mean that could give somebody an unfair edge ;) lol
I accidentally pasted the question I was working on into a conversation with some other qbers, so it both became unusable and sparked the debate.
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Post by Chris Frankel »

Yeah, it's not like he wrote the question and then pasted it in its entirety on a public weblog two weeks before a tournament in which the question would be used. God forbid someone ever do something that moronic.
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Post by einstein must die »

ater wrote:Yeah, it's not like he wrote the question and then pasted it in its entirety on a public weblog two weeks before a tournament in which the question would be used. God forbid someone ever do something that moronic.
whoaaaaaa i'm a dumbass, and that is not going to happen again.
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