pre-ACF Nationals thread

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Chris Frankel
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pre-ACF Nationals thread

Post by Chris Frankel » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:37 pm

All right, so there's a pre-tournament thread for ICT, but none for ACF, and I'm a little bored at the moment. Should everyone show up as planned, it looks to be an interesting field, with a wide range of both title contenders and high-level teams with the potential to play spoiler, so I guess the usual roll call and prediction thing is in order.

I'm going to wait until I get a better idea of the field to post my own, but I'll say that we (Princeton) have all intents of going now, with the only obstacle being financial concerns that we are trying to work around. I cobbled together rosters and teams from posts in other threads and added speculations for a few likely attendees who didn't post specifics, feel free to correct me or add something to the list if I'm in error.


Chicago (Teitler, Ferrari, Koo, Cohn)
Michigan (Kemezis, Westbrook, Turner, Rappaport)
Illinois (Sorice, Potru, Tourdot, Phillips)
Texas A&M (Rome.ro, Mitchell, Benefiel, Morris)
Princeton (Frankel, Kostovetsky, Boyd-Graber, Benediktson)
Brown (Jerry solo?)
Williams (Letzler, Thomas, Matthias, Klein?)
Harvard (Brito, Kelly, Rooke, Davis?)
VCU (Weiner?)
Texas (Kwartler, Nance, Udpa, Escandell)
Virginia? (Wolpert?)
CMU? (Litvak?)
Brandeis? (Passner?)
Chicago B (Samelson, Arthur, Kannan, Sun)
UCLA (Meigs, Luo, Turetzky)
Freeburg (durrrr!)
Illinois-Chicago
Rutgers (Keller, Ali, ?)
Lafer/Beyer
Minnesota
Maryland
Athens State


Anyway, let's get the ball rolling.
Last edited by Chris Frankel on Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:16 am, edited 6 times in total.
"They sometimes get fooled by the direction a question is going to take, and that's intentional," said Reid. "The players on these teams are so good that 90 percent of the time they could interrupt the question and give the correct answer if the questions didn't take those kinds of turns. That wouldn't be fun to watch, so every now and then as I design these suckers, I say to myself, 'Watch this!' and wait 'til we're on camera. I got a lot of dirty looks this last tournament."

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Post by Rothlover » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:52 pm

I frankly wouldn't be surprised to see TAMU, Princeton, Ill, Mich and Chicago in any order from 1-5, though I would be surprised to see anyone else crack the top 5. Jerry has proven he can play spoiler when he is really on, so he could factor into how things ultimately play out, and a full Harvard team would likely also be able to give the top teams a run for their money on a packet that hits their sweet spots, and of course there was that whole Weiner playing Michigan really close during last year's RR. Frankly, from an observational perspective, lots of crazy-ass shit could occur.

From a playing perspective, can some mediocre teams come so we don't finish with an 0-fer :-P .

Also, it is kind of sad that people are seemingly knocking down the doors to pay an obscene $240 to get to ICT, when the kickassingest tournament in the land will likely have one-third the total field. Yes, I know, difficulty and all, but still, this is always a tournament worth going to if you like the game.
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Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:14 pm

Rothlover wrote: From a playing perspective, can some mediocre teams come so we don't finish with an 0-fer :-P
Chicago is sending a B team (Samelson, Arthur, Kannan, Sun).

Come to think of it, that's the same as Chicago B was last year, but without Pericles.
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Post by wwellington » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:26 pm

Also, it is kind of sad that people are seemingly knocking down the doors to pay an obscene $240 to get to ICT, when the kickassingest tournament in the land will likely have one-third the total field.
It's not all difficulty; for some schools (us), Maryland is a lot more convenient than Michigan.

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Post by wd4gdz » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:31 pm

I would love to go. I just have to find myself some teammates. So, if you're interested in playing with me, let me know. As an exhibition team, we won't be eligible for first play (shucks!), but I assure you a good time.

P.S. I am a SWM who enjoys long walks on the beach, and hearing questions on Eikon Basilik.

Thanks,
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Post by sabine01 » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:51 pm

It's not all difficulty; for some schools (us), Maryland is a lot more convenient than Michigan.
Even more true for us. No flights, rental costs, or lodging to deal with. Just a subway ride for NAQT. (GW has historically played ACF nats, btw...)

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Post by Chris Frankel » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:03 pm

wwellington wrote:It's not all difficulty; for some schools (us), Maryland is a lot more convenient than Michigan.
Does that mean UNC isn't going to ACF?

I think Dan's point, at least in context for my team, was also that the exceptionally high fees can fast undermine the convenience and cost issues of having a tournament in the relative vicinity. Even though ICT is just a routine drive away, we're projected to spend almost as much money as for our ACF trip because the entry fee is nearly twice as high and the two day format forces overnight stays as opposed to the usual "drive and go" (true, we'd ideally like to take 3 teams to the tournament vs. one for ACF, which is why the fees really add up). Granted, the $100/staffer discount ICT offers is pretty appealing, and something we may consider to save money, but of course for a travelling tournament with an overnight aspect, that approach can have its own costs.

I recall someone telling me that just five years ago ICT cost only $120 for D1 teams and $100 for D2; I hope the trend of a $20-30/yr fee increase doesn't keep compounding for the forseeable future.
"They sometimes get fooled by the direction a question is going to take, and that's intentional," said Reid. "The players on these teams are so good that 90 percent of the time they could interrupt the question and give the correct answer if the questions didn't take those kinds of turns. That wouldn't be fun to watch, so every now and then as I design these suckers, I say to myself, 'Watch this!' and wait 'til we're on camera. I got a lot of dirty looks this last tournament."

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Post by wwellington » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:22 pm

Nope.

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Post by No Rules Westbrook » Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:56 am

Also, it is kind of sad that people are seemingly knocking down the doors to pay an obscene $240 to get to ICT, when the kickassingest tournament in the land will likely have one-third the total field. Yes, I know, difficulty and all, but still, this is always a tournament worth going to if you like the game.

Yeah, I was going to post with the same thing, couldn't have said it better so I won't try. Over the last few weeks, I've grown quite weary with the mass drooling and quibbling over both the merits and the likely victors of ICT/SCT, and the concurrent subtext brushing off ACF. As Frankel and Passner suggested, the arguments for doing this (financial constraints, convenience, nats is too hard/we don't like it) are pretty weak and do a disservice to the game.

I'll refrain from preliminary predictions for now, except to say that I think that chicago/michigan/illinois are all contenders depending on how they're playing that day, and that tamu especially is capable of being a spoiler and beating any team (i.e. but not winning, I don't think).

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Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:01 am

Since my teammates apparently value such things as "money" and "vacataion time" I think I'll be playing solo at Nationals, unless I can trick one of our freshmen into coming. Tee hee.

Given the Kemezis/Westbrook axis at Michigan, I'd tip them for the win, especially on tough finals questions. Chicago and Illinois come after, with Princeton and A&M rounding out the top 5, though I don't know the order.
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Post by Mr. Kwalter » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:21 pm

You know, I think that Jerry and Ryan are discounting Princeton and A&M. I actually think that given the drive that Chris Frankel and Chris Romero have shown to win ACF nationals in the past, and given the support they have from their teammates, both Princeton and A&M are real title contenders against the so-deemed "big three" this year. I think the championship is wide open between five teams for the first time in a long time, which should make for an exciting tournament.

EDIT: Nats roster: Kwartler, Nance, Udpa, Escandell

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Post by grapesmoker » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:38 pm

ekwartler wrote:You know, I think that Jerry and Ryan are discounting Princeton and A&M. I actually think that given the drive that Chris Frankel and Chris Romero have shown to win ACF nationals in the past, and given the support they have from their teammates, both Princeton and A&M are real title contenders against the so-deemed "big three" this year. I think the championship is wide open between five teams for the first time in a long time, which should make for an exciting tournament.
I don't think I'm discounting either of those teams, but I feel that they haven't been as consistent in the past as they could have been. Both Princeton and A&M, while very good teams, have tended to have trouble pulling out the crucial matches. Also, I think Chris hasn't played for some time, so he could be rusty. However, if either of those teams do happen to win it, I wouldn't be too surprised. Eric is of course correct in saying that the title is far more open this year than it has been for the last 4 or 5.
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Post by recfreq » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:09 pm

While all the other teams seems quite good, Chicago and Illinois stand out to me, I'll pick Chicago b/c I think Seth can single handedly win games in the crunch, and hopefully the science will be more standardized this time. The most interesting match to me is Jerry solo vs. Matt solo, who will win the solo bowl? (UCLA is on this list, but we really haven't decided yet, but at least we're thinking; the limiting factors for us were location--not particularly appetizing and money--not particularly cheap for everything.)
Ray Luo, UCLA.

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Post by Nathan » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:58 pm

Schedule permitting...I will be attending and playing solo for The New School.

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Post by suds1000 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:09 pm

I agree with Eric when he says that Princeton and A&M aren't getting nearly the respect they deserve. They will almost undoubtedly both finish in the top 5, and probably at least one of them will crack the top 3.

Incidentally, as far as putting together a "Big Three" is concerned, I frankly don't think Illinois should be a part of it. Based on the question sets at the last couple ACF National tournaments, we'll only have consistent scoring from Mike and Kelly, as I'm awful on questions at that difficulty level. Although now that I think about it, Mike has the ability to go off at random times (e.g. going 16-1 against Michigan in the second finals game of Chicago's ACF Fall)...all I can say is that I hope he does that a few more times.

As another note, the lack of players with *really* deep humanities knowledge results in a somewhat weakened field (i.e. minus Subash, Andrew, and Zeke) at this year's Nationals, and leaves a lot more stuff up for grabs; the fact that those three guys won't be playing definitely loosens the stranglehold on the literature questions that they have always owned.

As far as a prediction goes, my guess is that it'll be Chicago and Michigan in the finals, with Chicago winning...I know this in part because I moderated the SCT final between them. While Adam looked very strong and while Michigan will also get Ryan for this tournament, there are three things to note: 1) Chicago did win that SCT, doing so handily in the second game; 2) Adam's random knowledge will not be as effective on ACF questions; 3) Ed Cohn's presence on the Chicago team will give them a huge humanities boost, as it did at ACF Regionals; 4) ACF tends to have much better science than NAQT, so that goes in favor of Chicago.

Third, fourth, and fifth will be Princeton, Illinois, and A&M in some order or another. In addition, I predict that both Mike Sorice and Susan Ferrari will bitch indefinitely about the science questions, Zeke Berdichevsky will find some way to say "Whatever, dude", and Jason Paik will be a dick for no apparent reason.

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Post by your mom » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:33 pm

That was pretty scary what Mike did in that second game of the ACF Fall Finals, but let us recall that it was only against myself and Adam along with two new players, a rather incomplete foursome amounting to statistically half (if not less) of the full Michigan team on ACF. Ryan and Turner were sitting by watching, therefore stranding Adam and I without any science knowledge and lacking most everything else non-humanitites. We (Adam and I) also won one game against Illinois and lost by 10 in another (damn chemistry bonuses). I fully expect that the Michigan win in that particular case would have been inevitable had we played as a full team, but obviously Illinois was without Sudheer too. Just to keep the comparisons accurate...

I'm trying to actually get off my ass and study/perhaps start buzzing more legitimately in games so as to help our team out rather than being so deferential to my teammates, and I know Ryan and Will are studying too, so I expect we will be somewhat improved by Nationals. Of course there's that Adam guy too...I think A&M and Princeton will be totally capable of beating Chicago or Michigan or Illinois, I just question if they will end up finishing higher at the end of the day. Also, I suspect that Sudheer underestimates himself, and also that Jerry is going to pull of a huge upset somewhere along the line.

Hell, maybe the slight advantage of sleeping in our own beds the night before will allow the Michigan team to stay sharper during the tournament, and that would help us too.

See everyone in magnificent Ann Arbor in a month, can't wait to host you all.

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Post by QuizBowlRonin » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:01 pm

suds1000 wrote:and Jason Paik will be a dick for no apparent reason.

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Post by Captain Sinico » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:46 pm

The extent of my bitching is strictly finite. Now spend less time posting and more time studying for ACF.

MaS

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