2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

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2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

This is your discussion thread for specific questions from the 2017 Division I SCT.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

This was my first time writing for SCT. I tried to imitate the style of previous years' SCTs - not too challenging, using clues throughout the tossup which all have a good chance of being buzzed on. Here are the questions of mine that were kept relatively intact, and reflected my approach:

TUs: Khubilai Khan, Kant, Cio-Cio San, (medieval) Denmark, Tale of Genji, Cleisthenes, Utopia, Brandenburg Concerti, four (musicians), crosses (in art), labor (in Marxism), Sibelius, Phaedo, Habermas, Tale of Genji, Dostoevsky, Italian (Marxism), information (economics)
Bonuses: Berlioz/leitmotif/Still, Guercino/et in arcadia ego/Poussin, Hegel/Spengler/Sombart, Iroquois / Morgan / Hawaiian, concerto grosso / suite / courante, Vladimir / Croats / grads, Rimsky / Scheherezade / Islamey, Cambodia / Vietnam / Sihanouk, Leibniz / Wolff / sufficient reason, Portugal / Solomonic / Oromo, oriental despotism / India / Burke, MAGA / sonno joi / tryst with destiny, Erasmus / Pico / Nicholas of Cusa

[EDITED to remove topics internally relevant to NAQT]
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Muriel Axon »

I'd be interested in seeing the question on Aristotle's Physics. In past question-writing, I'd struggled to distinguish the Physics from the Metaphysics, and true to form, I negged with Metaphysics yesterday.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2017 DI SCT round 13 wrote:This work's first book uses the three principles of matter, form, and privation to explain change. This work asserts that there are four species of change, including generation and corruption, or change with respect to substance. This work uses the concepts of "potential" and "actual" infinity to resolve (*) Zeno's paradoxes. This work in eight books describes the four causes and ends with an account of the prime mover. For 10 points—name this work by Aristotle about the nature of matter.

answer: Physics (or Phusike akroasis)
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Knickerbocker glory »

Can the question on _Berkeley_ be posted?
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by singlet oxygen »

Can someone explain to me why the tossup on the Podesta emails required that phrase, when it isn't a formal name, although I do understand that they are commonly referred to as such? I answered that question with something to the effect of "emails that got hacked from Hillary's campaign," which in my mind should be just straight up acceptable since it is to the best of my knowledge uniquely identifying and the Podesta emails aren't, like, a published work with a name.

Apart from that sour note I overall enjoyed the tournament.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

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2017 DI SCT round 10 wrote:This city hosts the "HERE" side of an art piece spelling out "HERE THERE" in steel letters. Julia Galef co-founded this city's Center for Applied Rationality, whose affiliates include blogger Eliezer Yudkowsky. The Sather Tower campanile is in this city, whose name was inspired by the line (*) "westward the course of empire takes its way." Elaine in the film The Graduate and student activist Mario Savio went to school in—for 10 points—what California city named for an 18th-century Irish bishop?

answer: Berkeley, California [The "THERE" side is across the city boundary in Oakland.]
2017 DI SCT round 1 wrote:In one of these documents, Susan Sandler said that a realtor had "found a handkerchief" with a "map" on it. Another of these documents, written by Tony Carrk, quotes unpublished speech excerpts about the film Lincoln discussing "public" and (*) "private" positions. These documents showed that Donna Brazile had revealed debate questions. "Pizzagate" arose out of—for 10 points—what documents that were published on Wikileaks after being obtained in a phishing hack of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager?

answer: Podesta emails (accept answers mentioning John (David) Podesta and emails or documents; prompt on less-specific answers mentioning the "Clinton campaign" or "hacked emails" or "Wikileaks emails"; do not accept or prompt on "DNC emails" or answers mentioning the "Democratic National Committee"; do not accept or prompt on answers mentioning "Hillary Clinton emails" or "Hillary Clinton's private server emails")
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by vinteuil »

Muriel Axon wrote:I'd be interested in seeing the question on Aristotle's Physics. In past question-writing, I'd struggled to distinguish the Physics from the Metaphysics, and true to form, I negged with Metaphysics yesterday.
Yeah, I'd believe that the end of this question might have this effect—I included "eight books" before the stuff that they have in common (prime mover), but that's obviously no help unless you happen to know that fact. On the other hand, most of the question (early stuff) is very very unique to the Physics.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by theMoMA »

Imperial Cormorant wrote:Can someone explain to me why the tossup on the Podesta emails required that phrase, when it isn't a formal name, although I do understand that they are commonly referred to as such? I answered that question with something to the effect of "emails that got hacked from Hillary's campaign," which in my mind should be just straight up acceptable since it is to the best of my knowledge uniquely identifying and the Podesta emails aren't, like, a published work with a name.
I wrote the answer line to require "Podesta" because the hacked DNC emails also discussed the campaign. Perhaps, in hindsight, that was too restrictive; I can certainly see the argument that "emails from the Clinton campaign" is uniquely identifying enough to be acceptable by itself. (I want to thank my co-editors for pointing out in edits that the answer line for this question required some beefing up, and although I think the current version is defensible, and certainly much more fulsome than the original at delineating between possible answers, I apologize if it caused undue frustration on buzzes similar to Finn's.)
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Knickerbocker glory »

I find the first clue of the Berkeley tossup to be a little ambiguous, even though it uniquely points to the answer, because even for people who are familiar with the sign, it's a pretty much 50-50 chance guessing which city contains the "HERE" part of the sculpture. I think a better wording would have been:

"A sculpture of the eight-foot high metal words "HERE THERE" is on this city's southern border."
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Silverman »

Can I see the tossup on _Lagos_? I negged with "Vancouver" somewhere after "Victoria," and from what I heard several other people did as well.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Important Bird Area »

2017 DI SCT round 11 wrote:This city housed the headquarters of the Rose of Sharon fashion empire, and it is currently home to the Dangote industrial conglomerate. This city's namesake island contains the Ikoyi neighborhood and is joined to Victoria Island. Movies such as (*) October 1 and 30 Days in Atlanta were produced in this city, the home to the Nollywood film industry. Eko is the Yoruban name of—for 10 points—what most-populous city in Africa, which was replaced by Abuja as capital of Nigeria?

answer: Lagos (accept Eko before "Eko")
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by singlet oxygen »

Also, I don't have the set in front of my right now, but the tossup on erections from Greek art should probably explicitly list ithyphallic as an acceptable answer
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Muriel Axon »

vinteuil wrote:
Muriel Axon wrote:I'd be interested in seeing the question on Aristotle's Physics. In past question-writing, I'd struggled to distinguish the Physics from the Metaphysics, and true to form, I negged with Metaphysics yesterday.
Yeah, I'd believe that the end of this question might have this effect—I included "eight books" before the stuff that they have in common (prime mover), but that's obviously no help unless you happen to know that fact. On the other hand, most of the question (early stuff) is very very unique to the Physics.
I buzzed before that point, so chalk it up to ignorance!
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

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2017 DI SCT round 1 wrote:In one of these documents, Susan Sandler said that a realtor had "found a handkerchief" with a "map" on it. Another of these documents, written by Tony Carrk, quotes unpublished speech excerpts about the film Lincoln discussing "public" and (*) "private" positions. These documents showed that Donna Brazile had revealed debate questions. "Pizzagate" arose out of—for 10 points—what documents that were published on Wikileaks after being obtained in a phishing hack of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager?

answer: Podesta emails (accept answers mentioning John (David) Podesta and emails or documents; prompt on less-specific answers mentioning the "Clinton campaign" or "hacked emails" or "Wikileaks emails"; do not accept or prompt on "DNC emails" or answers mentioning the "Democratic National Committee"; do not accept or prompt on answers mentioning "Hillary Clinton emails" or "Hillary Clinton's private server emails")
Aside from the obvious, my problem with this question was that the answerline was far too long to properly parse in a timed tournament (especially given the lack of formatting cues). I think any answerline longer than 2 lines should be a no-go at a timed tournament.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Ike »

Cody wrote:
2017 DI SCT round 1 wrote:In one of these documents, Susan Sandler said that a realtor had "found a handkerchief" with a "map" on it. Another of these documents, written by Tony Carrk, quotes unpublished speech excerpts about the film Lincoln discussing "public" and (*) "private" positions. These documents showed that Donna Brazile had revealed debate questions. "Pizzagate" arose out of—for 10 points—what documents that were published on Wikileaks after being obtained in a phishing hack of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager?

answer: Podesta emails (accept answers mentioning John (David) Podesta and emails or documents; prompt on less-specific answers mentioning the "Clinton campaign" or "hacked emails" or "Wikileaks emails"; do not accept or prompt on "DNC emails" or answers mentioning the "Democratic National Committee"; do not accept or prompt on answers mentioning "Hillary Clinton emails" or "Hillary Clinton's private server emails")
Aside from the obvious, my problem with this question was that the answerline was far too long to properly parse in a timed tournament (especially given the lack of formatting cues). I think any answerline longer than 2 lines should be a no-go at a timed tournament.
I usually hit the pause button when this happens. Also, just so we can consolidate all the arguments against the clock in one nice place, can you post a version of this comment sanitized for question content in the rules discussion thread?
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

theMoMA wrote:
Imperial Cormorant wrote:Can someone explain to me why the tossup on the Podesta emails required that phrase, when it isn't a formal name, although I do understand that they are commonly referred to as such? I answered that question with something to the effect of "emails that got hacked from Hillary's campaign," which in my mind should be just straight up acceptable since it is to the best of my knowledge uniquely identifying and the Podesta emails aren't, like, a published work with a name.
I wrote the answer line to require "Podesta" because the hacked DNC emails also discussed the campaign. Perhaps, in hindsight, that was too restrictive; I can certainly see the argument that "emails from the Clinton campaign" is uniquely identifying enough to be acceptable by itself. (I want to thank my co-editors for pointing out in edits that the answer line for this question required some beefing up, and although I think the current version is defensible, and certainly much more fulsome than the original at delineating between possible answers, I apologize if it caused undue frustration on buzzes similar to Finn's.)
You missed a really good chance to toss up Pizzagate.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Cody »

Ike wrote:
Cody wrote:
2017 DI SCT round 1 wrote:In one of these documents, Susan Sandler said that a realtor had "found a handkerchief" with a "map" on it. Another of these documents, written by Tony Carrk, quotes unpublished speech excerpts about the film Lincoln discussing "public" and (*) "private" positions. These documents showed that Donna Brazile had revealed debate questions. "Pizzagate" arose out of—for 10 points—what documents that were published on Wikileaks after being obtained in a phishing hack of Hillary Clinton's campaign manager?

answer: Podesta emails (accept answers mentioning John (David) Podesta and emails or documents; prompt on less-specific answers mentioning the "Clinton campaign" or "hacked emails" or "Wikileaks emails"; do not accept or prompt on "DNC emails" or answers mentioning the "Democratic National Committee"; do not accept or prompt on answers mentioning "Hillary Clinton emails" or "Hillary Clinton's private server emails")
Aside from the obvious, my problem with this question was that the answerline was far too long to properly parse in a timed tournament (especially given the lack of formatting cues). I think any answerline longer than 2 lines should be a no-go at a timed tournament.
I usually hit the pause button when this happens. Also, just so we can consolidate all the arguments against the clock in one nice place, can you post a version of this comment sanitized for question content in the rules discussion thread?
This is good advice in the general case (I did pause the clock), but it's still not an ideal situation to place moderators in since not everyone is experienced enough to do that.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by theMoMA »

Yes, in retrospect I should've heeded my own advice from the past and tossed up a more concrete answer line using the same or similar clues, such as "Pizzagate" or Podesta himself. Apologies that this question caused some headache to players and moderators alike; I think the set generally did a good job walking the line between "interesting answers" and "answerable questions," but it's always unfortunate to make a misstep or two.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Make sure your seatbelt is fastened »

Round 2, tossup 8: I believe Fjalar and Galar killed the dimwitted Gilling, rather than his somewhat more intelligent son Suttung.

A side note about the DI set: was it intentionally more difficult to power than last year's set? Many questions, particularly in literature, struck me as bereft of middle clues. (a few examples off the top of my head: Matthew Arnold, Stendhal, Franzen, Rilke)
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Make sure your seatbelt is fastened wrote:Round 2, tossup 8: I believe Fjalar and Galar killed the dimwitted Gilling, rather than his somewhat more intelligent son Suttung.
This has been corrected, thanks for reporting it.

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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Beevor Feevor »

Could I see the text of the "old age" in art tossup? I buzzed in on the first line with "prudence" on the depiction of the lion, which the tossup says was actually a depiction of old age; I was under the impression that the wolf on the left of the painting below the old man was actually the depiction of old age.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by setht »

Beevor Feevor wrote:Could I see the text of the "old age" in art tossup? I buzzed in on the first line with "prudence" on the depiction of the lion, which the tossup says was actually a depiction of old age; I was under the impression that the wolf on the left of the painting below the old man was actually the depiction of old age.
2017 DI SCT round 16 wrote:This concept is represented by a lion's head and a self-portrait in Titian's Allegory of Prudence. This concept titles an 1842 depiction of angels descending from the upper left toward a guardian angel guiding a solitary man in a golden boat, in the fourth and (*) final painting of a series by Thomas Cole. In Gustav Holst's The Planets, the Saturn movement is subtitled "the bringer of"--for 10 points--what condition that afflicts a blind, white-haired guitarist in a Picasso painting?

answer: old age (or oldness; accept elderliness or being elderly or senescence)
You are correct that it should be "wolf's head" rather than "lion's head." I apologize for missing that, and have fixed the question.

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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by Valefor »

setht wrote:
Beevor Feevor wrote:Could I see the text of the "old age" in art tossup? I buzzed in on the first line with "prudence" on the depiction of the lion, which the tossup says was actually a depiction of old age; I was under the impression that the wolf on the left of the painting below the old man was actually the depiction of old age.
You are correct that it should be "wolf's head" rather than "lion's head." I apologize for missing that, and have fixed the question.

-Seth
For what it's worth, that being my favorite Titian painting, I should have caught it when I was working on the D2 conversion and I didn't. So my apologies on this as well.
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Re: 2017 Division I SCT: specific question discussion

Post by jinah »

I thought several of the philosophy tossups had trouble with nonspecific clues. Most notably:

In the Kant tossup (R2), "belief in God is necessary to... reach a union of virtue and happiness called the summum bonum" is pretty vague and not really the most unique clue, given that summum bonum is a widely used philosophical term to mean some state of virtue and/or happiness, and shows up particularly in medieval Christian interpretations of Aristotle - e.g. Augustine and Aquinas both say very similar things and could also very easily be answerlines at SCT.

RE: the "knowledge" tossup in R7, I personally feel like tossups on knowledge, truth, justification, or belief are not very well done most of the time because it's extremely hard to distinguish them from each other while listening to a tossup (Plantinga's theory of reformed epistemology afaik is about reliability/justification/"warrant" and belief, which are both completely plausible answerlines, and not promptable for knowledge). On the other hand I think an example of an epistemology tossup that was done well was the tossup on causality from Terrapin, as causal theories of knowledge are both a) hugely important and b) pick out causality pretty uniquely.

I don't have the full question on ethics, but if I recall correctly there was a line on a suggestion that "this discipline should be set aside until a better theory of philosophy of psychology was developed" which I think can be plausibly construed as either a reference to Modern Moral Philosophy or Epistemology Naturalized (earlier clues should have ruled the former out, but that's usually not very helpful when playing).

To end on a more positive note - I loved the lead-in on Lon Fuller's Case of the Speluncean Explorers for the cannibalism tossup! Thanks to whoever put that in there.
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