HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

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HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Shorts are comfy and easy to wear »

Hello quizbowl community,

Since this is my first post and most of quizbowl at best knows me as the guy next to Andrew Wang, let me introduce myself. I am Alex Fregeau, a linguist turned archaeologist and primarily history quizbowl player who just graduated with my BA from UIUC. In an effort to improve at this game and learn some cool stuff for its own sake, I am most of the way through writing a 12 packet, all toss up, open level history tournament. Originally this was just going to be something that I only posted to the archive, but I've since thought that perhaps people might be interested in playing an actual tournament on what I've written. Because this endeavor has been primarily for my own intellectual curiosity and I'm my own editor, I've diverged from the standard history tournament distribution in the following way to reflect my interests:

Anglophone non-British history (US/Canada/Australia/New Zealand [mostly US]): 15%
Euro: 30%
World:45%
Historically minded other academic (yet to be written but may include astro, geology, linguistics, anthropology, music, perhaps history of science): 5%
Historically themed trash: 5%

There are no set subdistributions within these categories, but I believe I have no major region completely unrepresented. The other main difference between my tournament and standard quizbowl history is that it will have a much smaller proportion of 20th century history, particularly in the world section. My interest in history is for the most part directly correlated with time gap from the present and my topic choice reflects this.

Despite my eccentric distribution, I believe I've made something accessible to an open level player; you'll probably be less lost on my set than I am on most "20th century political history of [insert country here]" toss ups. At the very least, I've dug up some pretty interesting stories that anyone who likes history will enjoy.

Now on to why I made this post. As a relative nobody proposing a nonstandard tournament, I feel the need to ask the following before confidently announcing HIT: Would anyone be interested in playing/hosting my tournament? All I would like to know now is whether this is something people would want to play as an actual tournament as opposed to just look at once it's in the archive. Assuming sufficient interest, I'd host at UIUC and distribute the set to anyone who wants to mirror. I'd like to run it this semester, but I won't set a rough date until I can gauge interest. If no one wants to play this in person, I'll just post it to the archive when it's done. I'm also open to suggestions for a more creative name. I look forward to hearing back.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Corry »

I'd play this if there was an online mirror, preferably held sometime in the winter or later.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Alex, you are a clearly a man after my heart.

(I would play the heck out of this)
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

I will play an online mirror of this if I'm free that day.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Knickerbocker glory »

I would love to play more hard history, though I'd rather prefer to play in-person rather than online.

Acronym suggestion: FRENCH Open—FREgeau's NonConformist History Open

Feedback on hastily-selected acronym appreciated.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by armitage »

I would play a mirror of this in New York or online in the winter or later. Bring the pain.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

Finally, a history tournament!

(just kidding, this sounds fun)
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by 1992 in spaceflight »

I would also play this at UIUC if the date works out with my schedule.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by The Dance of Sorrow »

I'd play this if it isn't too inconvenient for me to get to a site!
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Majin Buu Roi »

This fellow history-loving relative nobody would definitely be interested, time permitting.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Ethnic history of the Vilnius region »

I'd very much like to play this. An online mirror would probably be the best bet for me.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Sigurd »

I'm sure Canada will be interested in having a mirror of this :smile:
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Charbroil »

I'd play an in-person mirror of this at Illinois or an online one.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by gerbilownage »

world history woooooooooo!
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Deepika Goes From Ranbir To Ranveer »

Sigurd wrote:I'm sure Canada will be interested in having a mirror of this :smile:
I'm surprised Jay Misuk didn't break his neck running into this thread, but I feel confident in agreeing that there will be interest in Canada.

Also, welcome to the forums!
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by grapesmoker »

I think you should look into co-running this event with a larger, more conventional tournament, as this would almost certainly guarantee you a larger field. I'd love to play this, but I doubt I'll be attending too many things in person; however, if you were to co-host this with Auroni's open event, I bet you'd get a lot of people, myself included.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Senator_Jay »

I really like the looks of this, and think it could definitely be mirrored up here in the Great White North, especially in conjunction with something else. I can think of at least 10-12 other peeps (and a further 10-12 if I highlight that Trash requirement!) up here who would be more than willing to play.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Is this still happening? I'm hoping we can run it at the Michigan site of TTIAC
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Shorts are comfy and easy to wear »

Sorry for the wait, here are some updates:

1. I'm taking Bruce Lou's suggestion and changing the name of the tournament to FRENCH as it's much more creative than my idea.

2. Auroni has added FRENCH to the TTIAC side event list, so given sufficient interest, it's happening at Michigan and any mirrors that want to run it. I'm fine with it being hosted outside of TTIAC as long as it's within a few weeks of 2/25. Email me at [email protected] if you're interested in hosting.

3. Unless the Michigan iteration falls through, I won't be hosting FRENCH at UIUC as I has stated as a possibility earlier.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

Can we get a final field size determination for this thing? I personally don't like the idea of four-person teams for a set like this, as I'd rather have a larger field size (especially if there are 12 packets). I would encourage doubles, maybe triples if needed.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Charbroil »

Are there any plans to have a Skype mirror of this?
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Cheynem »

What was the pricing information on this?
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

If there's a skype mirror of this I'll play it.
EDIT: If you need someone to run a skype mirror I could maybe do it; I ran an online league almost exactly like this (I didn't know this existed when I did so). I'd still prefer to play though.
SECOND EDIT: Did the skype mirror already happen? If so, could I get the packets because this is a thing I am very interested in.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Shorts are comfy and easy to wear »

I'm not charging anything for distributing the set for mirrors. I've been contacted about mirrors in Canada and the UK, but nothing in the US outside of TTIAC weekend at Michigan is planned, online or otherwise. I'll distribute the set to anyone who wants to run a mirror assuming it happens by the end of March (I'd like to keep the time between its first reveal at TTIAC at Michigan on 2/25 and its posting on the archive relatively short). Please email me at [email protected] if you are interested in running a mirror.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

Shorts are comfy and easy to wear wrote:I'm not charging anything for distributing the set for mirrors. I've been contacted about mirrors in Canada and the UK, but nothing in the US outside of TTIAC weekend at Michigan is planned, online or otherwise. I'll distribute the set to anyone who wants to run a mirror assuming it happens by the end of March (I'd like to keep the time between its first reveal at TTIAC at Michigan on 2/25 and its posting on the archive relatively short). Please email me at [email protected] if you are interested in running a mirror.
If I understand this correctly, it means you won't be running a skype mirror. I really want to play this rather than read, but if no one besides me volunteers to run a skype mirror in the next week I guess I'll do it.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Mike Bentley »

For what it's worth I'd also be interested in a Skype mirror.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by ObsidianFoot »

Ditto to that, unless a last-minute mirror occurs at the Maryland site of TTIAC, which seems unlikely.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Votre Kickstarter Est Nul »

Not entirely sure what's happening but if a skype mirror (or anything within reason of RU) happens I'm down
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone »

Having just played the UK mirror of this tournament, I would highly recommend playing this set.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Belgium »

Ditto. I didn't have the best stats, but it was one of the most fun tournaments I've played. I thoroughly recommend it.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone »

Any chance we could get a discussion forum for this?
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Shorts are comfy and easy to wear »

Would anyone be willing to run a Skype mirror of FRENCH? Having neither run a Skype tournament nor played in one, I'd rather not do it myself. There seems to be a fair amount of interest and all profits would go to the TD.

Also, I've started a discussion thread for those who wish to talk about FRENCH. Respectful constructive criticism would be appreciated.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

As I discussed in an earlier PM, I'd be willing to run a skype mirror, I guess. I, however, plan on also playing that mirror as well using other people to moderate, so do not send me packets. We can discuss mirroring fees, entry fees, and such in PMs.
P.S. I have experience doing skype mirrors; I ran a skype tournament that didn't completely crash and burn a couple months ago, so I'm pretty sure I could handle the logistics involved.
P.P.S. All proceeds beyond mirroring fees and mod salaries would go toward paying for my team to go to HSNCT
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

JakobeanEra wrote:As I discussed in an earlier PM, I'd be willing to run a skype mirror, I guess. I, however, plan on also playing that mirror as well using other people to moderate, so do not send me packets. We can discuss mirroring fees, entry fees, and such in PMs.
P.S. I have experience doing skype mirrors; I ran a skype tournament that didn't completely crash and burn a couple months ago, so I'm pretty sure I could handle the logistics involved.
P.P.S. All proceeds beyond mirroring fees and mod salaries would go toward paying for my team to go to HSNCT
OK this is almost definitely happening at this point. Schedule depends on when everyone is available; The entry fee will be $10, teams are capped at 4 people, and the signup sheet is at this link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
EDIT: Since there are 12 packets, I currently favor doing 4 packets each on 3 consecutive Sundays. If this is too intensive for a single night, the good thing about 12 is that it's divisible by many numbers. 3 packets or 2 packets per night would also be tenable.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

It looks like there's a fairly significant lack of interest in a skype mirror at this point. I'm nixing it unless 4 teams sign up by next Monday.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Charbroil »

JakobeanEra wrote:It looks like there's a fairly significant lack of interest in a skype mirror at this point. I'm nixing it unless 4 teams sign up by next Monday.
If some reasonable number of people (ex. 5 or 6) sign up but not enough for 4 teams, would it be possible to just do this as a shootout with people alternating to read?
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by CPiGuy »

It should also be noted that the tournament (at least at Michigan) was held as a doubles tournament and not with teams of four -- it might be worthwhile to limit teams to two players unless more than 16 people want to play.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

Done. My 4-team requirement still applies.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

There are over 4 teams (albeit most of them still 1-person), so I will, in fact, be doing this after all.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Ciorwrong »

JakobeanEra wrote:There are over 4 teams (albeit most of them still 1-person), so I will, in fact, be doing this after all.
What date is this supposed to be? I don't think there is a lot of open weekends left in the quizbowl calendar with ICT, ACF Nationals and assorted mirrors of Eisenhower tournament, NAQT states, etc.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Charbroil »

Progcon wrote:
JakobeanEra wrote:There are over 4 teams (albeit most of them still 1-person), so I will, in fact, be doing this after all.
What date is this supposed to be? I don't think there is a lot of open weekends left in the quizbowl calendar with ICT, ACF Nationals and assorted mirrors of Eisenhower tournament, NAQT states, etc.
Jakob, would Sunday the 19th work for this? That seems like a day without many tournaments on a weekend that is similarly relatively free (except for the EMT Skype mirror on the 18th).
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by 1.82 »

Jakob, you've announced that you'll be running this tournament but also you can't actually read for this tournament or even disburse the packets because you plan on playing. Consequently it's unclear to me what service exactly you're providing that would justify receiving payment from the other people who, like you, are playing this tournament. If you're just creating a Google spreadsheet and drawing up a schedule, then there are any number of other people can do that for free, given that it's very little work.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by Ciorwrong »

Our Lady Peace wrote:Jakob, you've announced that you'll be running this tournament but also you can't actually read for this tournament or even disburse the packets because you plan on playing. Consequently it's unclear to me what service exactly you're providing that would justify receiving payment from the other people who, like you, are playing this tournament. If you're just creating a Google spreadsheet and drawing up a schedule, then there are any number of other people can do that for free, given that it's very little work.
I'm glad someone else posted precisely what I was thinking. I'd be fine reading or even organizing this event, but it seems Jakob has jumped the gun a little bit and made signup and stuff already without establishing a firm date. The quizbowl calendar is pretty crowded at this point, as I said, and most of the target audience--including myself--will be busy with final exams pretty soon. As such, it is paramount to get a date that maximizes participation before you start things like sign-up etc. It is all fun and good that you want to play Jakob, but logistics have to be primary for an event that should have pretty widespread interest such as this one.

Let's first pick a date then someone--such as myself or someone who is committed to reading the entire time-- can get the packets and read them in a organized manner at a pre-specified date and time.

This is completely ignoring the issue of payment for organizing/TDing and moderating. Personally, I'd have no issue if the entire mirror fee went to Alex Fregeau for writing the packets. I don't pay moderators for the in-person tournaments I host (or else I'd be operating at an assured loss assuming reasonable prices for teams) and the writer deserves more than the bulk of the payment. Reimbursing for gas and food is one thing I try to do for moderators, so I'd be okay with a nominal payment to readers. I stand by the belief that the writer should get the plurality of the dollars though. The TD should get very little for telling people to be on Skype at a certain type and date and putting together a google sheet.
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

Progcon wrote:I'm glad someone else posted precisely what I was thinking. I'd be fine reading or even organizing this event, but it seems Jakob has jumped the gun a little bit and made signup and stuff already without establishing a firm date. The quizbowl calendar is pretty crowded at this point, as I said, and most of the target audience--including myself--will be busy with final exams pretty soon. As such, it is paramount to get a date that maximizes participation before you start things like sign-up etc. It is all fun and good that you want to play Jakob, but logistics have to be primary for an event that should have pretty widespread interest such as this one.

Let's first pick a date then someone--such as myself or someone who is committed to reading the entire time-- can get the packets and read them in a organized manner at a pre-specified date and time.

This is completely ignoring the issue of payment for organizing/TDing and moderating. Personally, I'd have no issue if the entire mirror fee went to Alex Fregeau for writing the packets. I don't pay moderators for the in-person tournaments I host (or else I'd be operating at an assured loss assuming reasonable prices for teams) and the writer deserves more than the bulk of the payment. Reimbursing for gas and food is one thing I try to do for moderators, so I'd be okay with a nominal payment to readers. I stand by the belief that the writer should get the plurality of the dollars though. The TD should get very little for telling people to be on Skype at a certain type and date and putting together a google sheet.
You're right on all counts. I'll set up a poll as to which times work for everyone today, and the entire mirroring fee will go to pay moderators/Alex.
EDIT: If everyone is OK with it, the only compensation I'll take is waiving my own entry fee.
Last edited by A Dim-Witted Saboteur on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jakob Myers
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

http://doodle.com/poll/9hx72w9rdrqz74b4
Here's a poll as to when to start; all dates are for start date; the further rounds will be held one week subsequently, 2 weeks subsequently, and 3 weeks subsequently.
Jakob Myers
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-Ankit Aggarwal

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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by CPiGuy »

Because I've seen people express concern over this, I'll put it out there that I have all of the packets, plan on reading for this, and can distribute them as necessary to the other readers, so that much has already been arranged. (As long as this isn't held on Mondays or Wednesdays, I'm pretty much certain I'll be able to read.)
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Bangor HS (Maine) '16
Michigan '20

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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by CPiGuy »

JakobeanEra wrote:http://doodle.com/poll/9hx72w9rdrqz74b4
Here's a poll as to when to start; all dates are for start date; the further rounds will be held one week subsequently, 2 weeks subsequently, and 3 weeks subsequently.
I take this to mean that you've decided to do three packets a night -- would it be possible to do four packets a night for three nights instead (your original proposal), since it seems the schedule is pretty filled up in April? Additionally, since the packets are tossups-only, it should be possible to get through them fairly quickly.
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Michigan '20

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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by naan/steak-holding toll »

We interrupt this thread with an obligatory staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaats request
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Re: HIT (Historically Intensive Tournament)

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

CPiGuy wrote:
JakobeanEra wrote:http://doodle.com/poll/9hx72w9rdrqz74b4
Here's a poll as to when to start; all dates are for start date; the further rounds will be held one week subsequently, 2 weeks subsequently, and 3 weeks subsequently.
I take this to mean that you've decided to do three packets a night -- would it be possible to do four packets a night for three nights instead (your original proposal), since it seems the schedule is pretty filled up in April? Additionally, since the packets are tossups-only, it should be possible to get through them fairly quickly.
In general, the plan was to do however many packets one can get through in two hours. If that's 4, great. 3 is just a conservative estimate.
Jakob Myers
MSU '21, Naperville North (IL) '17
"No one has ever organized a greater effort to get people interested in pretending to play quiz bowl"
-Ankit Aggarwal

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