Chicago Open Weekend Length

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Cheynem
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Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Cheynem »

(First of all, let me just say that both tournaments last weekend ran very well and this is not a complaint about any of them)

On Saturday, most teams arrived by 8:30 and we started basically at 9. We had about a 45 minute lunch break but other than that we were playing continuous quizbowl until around 9-10 PM.

On Sunday, we again started around 9, had no real lunch break other than grabbing pizza and going, and were playing continuous quizbowl until around 8 PM (later for some teams).

There were a few points on the weekend where I wondered if my body, already ravaged by travel and a hotel room, could really support this schedule in the future. Now don't get me wrong, I like stacked weekends and true to form I played better with less sleep anyway, but...I was wondering what the community felt. These are my thoughts anyway about approaching future CO's:

1. We had basically as much quizbowl both days as I think we could humanly stand. I think most people recognize this, but for those angling for Saturday night side events or even more stuff on Sunday...no. Just no.

2. The lunch break was difficult because almost the entire field seemingly went to Noodles. I was one of the first people in line, got my food, and immediately went back to the tournament and barely avoided being late. I realize I probably should have ordered ahead, but I'm wondering if centralized food options might be a better idea for future very long Saturday schedules.

3. I'm okay having Saturday run until 9 or 10 PM, the longest day of the quizbowl year.

4. I'm a little less okay with how long Sunday went, although it still wasn't crazy or anything. I would be okay with limiting the number of events on Sunday but we don't really need to I suppose. Both the fine arts and history events went pretty quickly all things considered--I think literature's length was more due to the harder questions and the reseeding stuff and even then it wasn't that long.

In short, I guess my recommendations are:

-Maybe consider dialing the schedules back a notch. We had great logistics this year; that isn't always the case.
-Sunday especially might benefit from a reduced docket.

A distinguished former quizbowler theorized that the side event schedule for both CO and VCUO would benefit from a third summer open (or a weekend in which lots of various tournaments are played).
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by vinteuil »

Cheynem wrote:(or a weekend in which lots of various tournaments are played).
I still like my idea of a sort of "three-appetizer plate" of various side events, although this would obviously only work if the subjects were well-balanced. Another possibility would be to anchor the weekend with a shorter event with broader appeal, e.g. an all-subject tournament in a wacky, faster format.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Captain Sinico »

Contra that, I loved the schedule and I hope it stays where it is. There's no imperative to play everything if you don't want to or can't take it.
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at your pleasure
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by at your pleasure »

vinteuil wrote:
Cheynem wrote:(or a weekend in which lots of various tournaments are played).
I still like my idea of a sort of "three-appetizer plate" of various side events, although this would obviously only work if the subjects were well-balanced. Another possibility would be to anchor the weekend with a shorter event with broader appeal, e.g. an all-subject tournament in a wacky, faster format.
Question: would a "day/weekend of big 3 side events" work as a thing, with CO Sunday being used for more experimental or niche-y side events and/revived CO trash? Or does VCUO kinda fill the second niche?
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Fado Alexandrino »

vinteuil wrote: Another possibility would be to anchor the weekend with a shorter event with broader appeal, e.g. an all-subject tournament in a wacky, faster format.
I think a free-for-all event should take the last spot given 3 tossups-only tournament Sunday. It's more flexible with drops from both players and moderators (combining rooms as the evening goes by) and lets players play however many rounds they'd like without an implied commitment to finish a regular tournament.
Cheynem wrote: 4. I'm a little less okay with how long Sunday went, although it still wasn't crazy or anything. I would be okay with limiting the number of events on Sunday but we don't really need to I suppose. Both the fine arts and history events went pretty quickly all things considered--I think literature's length was more due to the harder questions and the reseeding stuff and even then it wasn't that long.
Fine arts went longer than I expected - rounds were going at about 20-25 mins each, compared to the history tournament whose 11 game round robin took less than 3.5 hours. Literature's reseeding was faster this year than it was last year. In the future, reseeding after free-for-all seeding rounds can be further quickened if moderators directly inputted scores onto a online spreadsheet from their rooms, and then a centralized person can sort and break ties as needed.

Also, digging through my old emails it seemed like in 2013 we started both days at 8. Meet at 8/Start 8:15 on Saturday isn't too insane and gives more time for lunch and if there's a complicated finals scenario, it doesn't end at midnight.

PS: Side event organizers please make sure that there are scoresheets for your side event! Side event staffers, please hand in your scoresheets!
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by merv1618 »

When I did CO weekend, just the main event and trash sufficiently wiped me out for the foreseeable future; I can't imagine playing four entire academic tournaments in two days, bonuses or not.
If a high quality side event gets delegated to the end of CO Sunday as say the third event that day, as Mike said, people will by and large play it at less than full aptitude and concentration. All in all it strikes me as disrespectful to the editors in having much of their quality work and effort partially go to waste.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Ike »

Right now we have a lot of side events that people want to write and by all means let's play them! Part of the problem is that we as quizbowlers are naturally inclined to play everything because there is so little quizbowl (two events in the summer!) I think the solution is to have more events. Personally, I would love it if we had quizbowl every weekend - there's no obligation to go to anything, you just go to events that you want (this is a far-off future that may or may not exist.)
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

Ike wrote:Right now we have a lot of side events that people want to write and by all means let's play them! Part of the problem is that we as quizbowlers are naturally inclined to play everything because there is so little quizbowl (two events in the summer!) I think the solution is to have more events. Personally, I would love it if we had quizbowl every weekend - there's no obligation to go to anything, you just go to events that you want (this is a far-off future that may or may not exist.)
I wouldn't take it as far as Ike, but I think the idea of having 3-4 summer opens every year is a good solution to the current glut of tournaments at places like CO and VCUO.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Lagotto Romagnolo »

The Quest for the Historical Mukherjesus wrote: I wouldn't take it as far as Ike, but I think the idea of having 3-4 summer opens every year is a good solution to the current glut of tournaments at places like CO and VCUO.
As nice as it would be to distribute the side events across the summer, let's remember that we have only a finite number of writers who can put the main events together, and every writer who does so loses available time to work on tournaments for the fall AND on the same side events for which we're trying to make room. Also I imagine many of the writers we need would rather spend March and April preparing for nationals (at which time the rest of the qb community is writing ICT / Nats), and exams are right after that period, followed by high school nationals which soak up yet more time.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by jonpin »

Is it practical or even possible to do one side event Friday night? I know that many of the participants would still be flying in then, but for those already present, is that an option?
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

jonpin wrote:Is it practical or even possible to do one side event Friday night? I know that many of the participants would still be flying in then, but for those already present, is that an option?
It's been tried, and it's generally a mess, usually running very late essentially because too many people can't get in early enough to run it at a better time. It's to everyone's benefit to not have to worry about playing a Friday event, I think.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Captain Sinico »

I'm less likely to play a Friday night event since it may keep me up late the day before the most important tournament, which is maybe not worth the risk.

I don't understand the gist of this thread. If playing 4 events in a weekend tires you out, then play less - nobody's making you play all 4. It's obvious, given the objective of getting as many people to play summer events as possible, that clustering them all during one or two weekends is the best policy. I don't think time would be any less full of stuff to play if there were three weekends. That practice is imperfect only in as much as it means you won't play events after the first at peak performance. So what? You have the option of skipping whatever you want if you want to perform at peak in one of the events, and more people get more chance to play more stuff!

EDIT: Missed an "s" there!
Last edited by Captain Sinico on Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by grapesmoker »

Captain Sinico wrote:I'm less likely to play a Friday night event since it may keep me up late the day before the most important tournament, which is maybe not worth the risk.

I don't understand the gist of this thread. If playing 4 events in a weekend tires you out, then play less - nobody's making you play all 4. It's obvious, given the objective of getting as many people to play summer events as possible, that clustering them all during one or two weekends is the best policy. I don't think time would be any less full of stuff to play if there were three weekends. That practice is imperfect only in as much as it means you won't play event after the first at peak performance. So what? You have the option of skipping whatever you want if you want to perform at peak in one of the events, and more people get more chance to play more stuff!
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Cheynem »

I want to clarify that I wasn't complaining about the weekend at all; I played every event and enjoyed/did the best on the last of the three events. In terms of logistics, this was by far one of the superior Chicago Opens.

What I wanted to do in the thread was outline my impressions of the weekend ("a lot of fun, but also very much stuffed, especially for people who have to drive/fly back home afterwards"). Certainly, no one is forcing anyone to play any of the tournaments and I think Mike is correct that if we added another summer open, it would just result in a further glut of side events. What I was trying to do in this thread is first see if anyone else shared my concerns, then try to think of ways to perhaps improve the playing experience of that "third Sunday event," which is inevitably hurt by people having to leave and the field/staff suffering from exhaustion. It may well be that nothing should or needs to change, but I wonder if simply (slightly) expanding the summer circuit might help too.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by grapesmoker »

The problem with expanding the summer circuit (and I say this as someone wildly in favor of said expansion in general, not just as it pertains to this discussion) is that it requires a lot more travel. Which is fine for some people and not fine for others. I like CO weekend because it concentrates a lot of stuff in one place and I don't need to travel to three different sites to play all the various events.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed »

And yet people continue to go to CO year after year and sign up for all of these side events, suggesting they are OK with it.
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Re: Chicago Open Weekend Length

Post by Sima Guang Hater »

Skepticism and Animal Feed wrote:And yet people continue to go to CO year after year and sign up for all of these side events, suggesting they are OK with it.
That's not what it suggests; it suggests that people like quizbowl and that Say's law is in full effect. Just because people sign up for something doesn't mean its not worth re-evaluating it (see: the million events at NHBB nationals).
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