Centralized scheduling, records, and standings

[theMoMA]

It strikes me that collegiate quizbowl has both a coordination problem and a record-keeping problem. Despite our informal efforts to create a coordinated schedule, we haven't been as successful as we'd like in having events that are both consistently and reasonably scheduled. And, though we've made strides with the tournament database and hsquizbowl-based stats, past records from tournaments aren't available in a centralized place; you have to comb through old threads to find most of our history.

I'd like to change that. I think we should create a central body that manages tournaments and keeps records from those tournaments. This would encompass all independent events, and I'd envision ACF and NAQT taking an active role as well. The organization would work with tournament organizers to create a coherent yearly schedule. It would recognize all tournaments that adhere to its schedule as official events, and keep the records of those events. It would recognize tournament victories and national championships and serve as a central organizing location for stats links. It would keep official records of scoring and winning for teams, players, schools, etc. (This could include yearly regular-season standings.) It could coordinate things like team and player polls. It could even sponsor the creation end-of-year player and team awards and the creation of a hall of fame or similar honors. The organization could also make an effort to find and recognize records and stats from past years.

Most importantly, events that failed to coordinate with this organization would not be recognized, which would give teeth to our efforts to create a coherent schedule.

I wouldn't envision this body as heavy-handed in any way. Nor would it replace any of the main entities that drive quizbowl today, such as HSQB, NAQT, and ACF. (In fact, I think it would bolster all three of those organizations.) It would simply be a record-keeping organization that would work with tournament writers and organizers to slot the year's independent quizbowl events sensibly.

Does this idea resonate with anyone else?

[Tale of Mac Datho's Pachycephalosaur]

Here's my two cents:

It strikes me that collegiate quizbowl has both a coordination problem and a record-keeping problem. Despite our informal efforts to create a coordinated schedule, we haven't been as successful as we'd like in having events that are both consistently and reasonably scheduled.

The coordination problem strikes me the most. In my region, it seems very difficult to get a really good field, I think it's in large part due to a relatively high barrier to entry, logistically. I'm running into this a lot with recruiting new teams for the Buffalo SCT. Some sort of centralized resource that is both useful and usable is a good goal.

In the same vein, I think it would help a lot to set up a system where members keep track of their affiliations (every year when in high school, and every semester while in college). This basically would allow players to find other players at their universities (and failing that, former players and contacts with student associations/administrators who can help them start a club).

I think we should create a central body that manages tournaments and keeps records from those tournaments. This would encompass all independent events, and I'd envision ACF and NAQT taking an active role as well. The organization would work with tournament organizers to create a coherent yearly schedule.

This seems the handiest part. Integrating this feature with the user/affiliation database would allow hosts to more easily get directly in touch with possible attendees. Another valuable feature would be, as you said, to organize collaborative housewrites.

It would recognize all tournaments that adhere to its schedule as official events
...
Most importantly, events that failed to coordinate with this organization would not be recognized, which would give teeth to our efforts to create a coherent schedule.

This seems a little heavy-handed to me, especially to start out with, but I have less of a problem in principle if it isn't an overnight change. Taking a year to get bits and pieces of the system online and another year to roll out the final version doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

...keep the records of those events. It would recognize tournament victories and national championships and serve as a central organizing location for stats links. It would keep official records of scoring and winning for teams, players, schools, etc. (This could include yearly regular-season standings.)

This seems doable if it were integrated with SQBS, but having to get data from seventeen different places and make any meaningful aggregate stats out of it seems the opposite of fun to me. The easy way is just to ask for SQBS reports (which tournaments that use HSQB/db already have online). The hard way is to finally do that buzz-point-tracking stat software people have been talking about since forever.

It could coordinate things like team and player polls. It could even sponsor the creation end-of-year player and team awards and the creation of a hall of fame or similar honors. The organization could also make an effort to find and recognize records and stats from past years.

This seems a little too ambitious. If the stats are there and easy to use, fine--take them and be merry. But I don't see much of a use for ranking teams from three years ago on incomplete stats. The MVP awards sound cool, and would be reasonably easy, I imagine, once all the stats are in one place, but it's not really crucial functionality.

Nor would it replace any of the main entities that drive quizbowl today, such as HSQB, NAQT, and ACF.

I think it would be most effective if integrated with HSQB. It probably wouldn't be easy at all (what with having to link usernames with IRL names and affiliations--in fact I'm getting a headache just thinking about it), but if there suddenly is a fourth place to go for information, that seems like the edge of the rabbit hole.

[Adventure Temple Trail]

I'm also wondering about the extent to which this site could serve to host more centralized data. The stats database and the transfer of quizbowlpackets.com were both great decisions which helped to put the "resource" in "Quizbowl Resource Center," and made this site a more helpful place for coaches and players. I'm a little less interested in the centralized project Andrew talks about (though that would be cool to implement in stages somewhere, at some time) because I think there's still a real need for getting some more basic resources up and linked on a page that quizbowl community members visit.

In particular, it's hard for many hosts to find or devise a fair, single elimination-free schedule for the proper number of teams and packets off the top of their heads. Many newer or badly-connected hosts don't know where to go to make a schedule unless someone with experience happens to basically recreate the proper schedule for them. And experienced teams often end up copying possibly-inexact schedules from tennis sites or recreating them from scratch, which wastes time. It seems like something of a no-brainer that coherent, fair schedules (sorted by number of attending teams and then number of required packets) should be permanently posted and downloadable from a more permanent place than an Excel spreadsheet from a Dwight Wynne thread from 2010, so that any host of any experience level knows where to get them. I envision a one-page Word document labeled "M teams, N rounds" for each set of values (M, N), which has fill-in-the-blank areas for which bracket the teams are in, the appropriately-sized round robins, and the proper matchups for the crossover segment of the schedule later on - which would be behind a hyperlink in each entry of a list something like the new "suggested formats" ACF page. I realize this sounds like a lot of work to set up and I'm willing to help write up the tables of which teams play each other in what round, etc.

On a related note, I'm still unsure what the front page of this site is supposed to be, and think that there's more potential beyond the occasional post about a forums poll. Perhaps it could link to a wide array of resources such as a "What is Quizbowl?" article, a guide to SQBS, the aforementioned schedules, etc. - and visitors to the forums could be linked to it.

[Mewto55555]

In particular, it's hard for many hosts to find or devise a fair, single elimination-free schedule for the proper number of teams and packets off the top of their heads. Many newer or badly-connected hosts don't know where to go to make a schedule unless someone with experience happens to basically recreate the proper schedule for them. And experienced teams often end up copying possibly-inexact schedules from tennis sites or recreating them from scratch, which wastes time. It seems like something of a no-brainer that coherent, fair schedules (sorted by number of attending teams and then number of required packets) should be permanently posted and downloadable from a more permanent place than an Excel spreadsheet from a Dwight Wynne thread from 2010, so that any host of any experience level knows where to get them. I envision a one-page Word document labeled "M teams, N rounds" for each set of values (M, N), which has fill-in-the-blank areas for which bracket the teams are in, the appropriately-sized round robins, and the proper matchups for the crossover segment of the schedule later on - which would be behind a hyperlink in each entry of a list something like the new "suggested formats" ACF page. I realize this sounds like a lot of work to set up and I'm willing to help write up the tables of which teams play each other in what round, etc.

I too would be interested in helping with this.

[theMoMA]

I get that gradual implementation is probably preferable in terms of penalizing tournaments, but is there anything about this project that's not feasible to begin for the upcoming year? It seems like all we'd need would be a website and some people interested in helping to organize scheduling and scavenger hunts for records.

[1992 in spaceflight]

I've been looking up old SQBS reports while updating pages on QBWiki, so if you would want my help with the stats hunt, sign me up.

[ScoBo]

A couple of these ideas sound similar to features I've envisioned to eventually be part of the Quizbowl Resource Database. Last summer I had planned to get a lot more done than just quizbowlpackets.com migrated over, but that dragged on and I didn't really want to start on anything else until that was complete. Hopefully this summer will be more productive.

In the same vein, I think it would help a lot to set up a system where members keep track of their affiliations (every year when in high school, and every semester while in college). This basically would allow players to find other players at their universities (and failing that, former players and contacts with student associations/administrators who can help them start a club).

This is something I'm hoping to get implemented this summer. This loosely ties in with my ultimate goal for next season of setting up the ability to take registrations for tournaments through the database, with high school teams being able to provide known college information with their rosters just like the Freshman Contact List team records form.

In particular, it's hard for many hosts to find or devise a fair, single elimination-free schedule for the proper number of teams and packets off the top of their heads. Many newer or badly-connected hosts don't know where to go to make a schedule unless someone with experience happens to basically recreate the proper schedule for them. And experienced teams often end up copying possibly-inexact schedules from tennis sites or recreating them from scratch, which wastes time. It seems like something of a no-brainer that coherent, fair schedules (sorted by number of attending teams and then number of required packets) should be permanently posted and downloadable from a more permanent place than an Excel spreadsheet from a Dwight Wynne thread from 2010, so that any host of any experience level knows where to get them. I envision a one-page Word document labeled "M teams, N rounds" for each set of values (M, N), which has fill-in-the-blank areas for which bracket the teams are in, the appropriately-sized round robins, and the proper matchups for the crossover segment of the schedule later on - which would be behind a hyperlink in each entry of a list something like the new "suggested formats" ACF page. I realize this sounds like a lot of work to set up and I'm willing to help write up the tables of which teams play each other in what round, etc.

I too would be interested in helping with this.

Yeah, this is something I've wanted to see for a long time now. I've got quite a collection of schedules built up on my flash drive/computer that I've put together over the years, but of course it's doing nobody but myself any good just sitting there.

[theMoMA]

Worth noting: Auroni was nice enough to format this document on the ACF website. There are lots of good format suggestions for various tournament sizes on it.

[Tale of Mac Datho's Pachycephalosaur]

I get that gradual implementation is probably preferable in terms of penalizing tournaments, but is there anything about this project that's not feasible to begin for the upcoming year? It seems like all we'd need would be a website and some people interested in helping to organize scheduling and scavenger hunts for records.

I'd be willing to help with scheduling, assuming it is the will of the community that such a venture is implemented.