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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:45 pm
by Gautam
Tees-Exe Line wrote: I think that's enough vague and probably unhelpful description of the difficulty level
Just give the people a benchmark so that they can form their rational expectations.... You of all people should know about signaling clearly, and the above post does nothing to make it clear.

Something as simple as "We want the tournament to emulate 2010 ACF Regionals in difficulty" would go a long way.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:45 pm
by aestheteboy
I've been told "regular difficulty," so I am personally aiming for 2010 Regionals level.

I would also like to remind people that we are looking for mirror sites. It's going to be a enjoyable set for sure.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:45 am
by Charbroil
One to two teams from WUSTL, three buzzers, zero staffers. What does the field look like?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:12 am
by Tees-Exe Line
That's a good question--please email me or post if you're planning to come

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:27 am
by The Toad to Wigan Pier
I'm going to be playing at this site, so consequently I'm looking for teammates. Email me or send me a PM if you want to be on my team.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:17 pm
by Boeing X-20, Please!
If you could tentatively add a team of something like myself, Ben Carbery, Dan Donohue, and SPECIAL SURPRISE GUEST to the list, that'd be great. We'd be able to bring 2 buzzers.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:14 pm
by Ringil
Hmm no Michigan has posted yet, so I will and say that we'll bring 2-3 teams. (most likely 2)

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:37 am
by nadph
Any word on those mirror sites?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:59 am
by Tees-Exe Line
That's a good question. I emailed a couple of people and invited proposals for mirror sites, but I haven't had much interest. So I'll put it out there again: I would like the tournament to be mirrored if anyone is interested in hosting.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:23 pm
by Sir Thopas
Tees-Exe Line wrote:That's a good question. I emailed a couple of people and invited proposals for mirror sites, but I haven't had much interest. So I'll put it out there again: I would like the tournament to be mirrored if anyone is interested in hosting.
Brown would be interested.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:26 pm
by Sun Devil Student
In the event that Southern California (and the West Coast generally) does not show interest in holding this tournament, my team at ASU would like to host a delayed mirror sometime in March, understanding the risk that our field size may be reduced by spring breaks conflicting with our own. If it falls to ASU to host, we would prefer not to run this on 2/19/11 if possible, because literally *every* weekend in February is now occupied except for 2/19, and 4 weekends in a row seems kind of excessive.

Our local high schools mostly can't field teams on 3/5, 3/12 or 3/19 so we'd want to host delayed mirrors on any of those days. Would this be acceptable (assuming there's not a great deal of Southern California interest in this tournament)?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:43 pm
by Tees-Exe Line
Great, glad to hear there's interest. Guy, why don't you email me to hammer out details? (msteinbaum at gmail). Kenneth, I've heard nothing from Southern California schools. If anybody from those places wants to host, please say so ASAP. Let's say if I don't have interest from anyplace there for February by Tuesday night (1/11), ASU can do it in March.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:54 pm
by Sam
The tournament will be held in Harper Memorial Library, which is at the south end of the Quad. Here is a map.
Map
I will be tournament directing for the Chicago site. My email is smbailey1 atsymbol uchicago period edu.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:12 am
by Sun Devil Student
Tees-Exe Line wrote: I've heard nothing from Southern California schools. If anybody from those places wants to host, please say so ASAP. Let's say if I don't have interest from anyplace there for February by Tuesday night (1/11), ASU can do it in March.
I take it ASU has clearance to host Sack of Antwerp sometime in March then?

At this point I'd be looking at 3/5, 3/12, or 3/19 (whichever draws the most college teams). Despite the possible interference from spring break, I still suspect the field would be larger than it would be in February; spring break or not, Southern California just seems sluggish lately, and the later in the semester, the more time we have for Univ. of Arizona to hopefully get organized.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:31 am
by Tees-Exe Line
That's right--ASU can run it in March, and whichever date you prefer is fine with us. Please email me so we can discuss the details.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:35 am
by Duncan Idaho
Is there any news of a possible East Coast mirror?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:10 am
by Papa's in the House
Ben Cole wrote:Is there any news of a possible East Coast mirror?
Sir Thopas wrote:
Tees-Exe Line wrote:That's a good question. I emailed a couple of people and invited proposals for mirror sites, but I haven't had much interest. So I'll put it out there again: I would like the tournament to be mirrored if anyone is interested in hosting.
Brown would be interested.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:17 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Papa's in the House wrote:
Ben Cole wrote:Is there any news of a possible East Coast mirror?
Sir Thopas wrote:
Tees-Exe Line wrote:That's a good question. I emailed a couple of people and invited proposals for mirror sites, but I haven't had much interest. So I'll put it out there again: I would like the tournament to be mirrored if anyone is interested in hosting.
Brown would be interested.
Now, I know you're not a geographer, but...

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:17 pm
by Papa's in the House
Crazy Andy Watkins wrote:
Papa's in the House wrote:
Ben Cole wrote:Is there any news of a possible East Coast mirror?
Sir Thopas wrote:
Tees-Exe Line wrote:That's a good question. I emailed a couple of people and invited proposals for mirror sites, but I haven't had much interest. So I'll put it out there again: I would like the tournament to be mirrored if anyone is interested in hosting.
Brown would be interested.
Now, I know you're not a geographer, but...
Still closer than Chicago or ASU, but I understand your point (now).

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:40 pm
by mastaloo
Delaware is interested in hosting a mirror, but I need to check for room availability first.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:40 am
by Duncan Idaho
That was actually a complete oversight on my part. A mid-Atlantic mirror would be nice, but at the time I had forgotten that Brown had expressed interest in hosting a mirror.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:25 pm
by DumbJaques
Delaware is interested in hosting a mirror, but I need to check for room availability first.
Yeah, that would be awesome and certainly attended by some Maryland teams.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:50 pm
by Sima Guang Hater
DumbJaques wrote:
Delaware is interested in hosting a mirror, but I need to check for room availability first.
Yeah, that would be awesome and certainly attended by some Maryland teams.
Probably some Penn teams too.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:51 pm
by Gonzagapuma1
MoCo would also most likely be there.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:16 pm
by Tees-Exe Line
I'm sorry there's been some confusion about the location of this tournament's mid-Atlantic mirror. Based on an inquiry of mine in December, I guess that Delaware has been considering mirroring this. However, not having heard anything since a reply that essentially said "we'll consider it" at that time, I accepted Trevor Davis' proposal to host a "mid-atlantic mirror" at CMU. I think that Trevor will post an announcement to that effect soon.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:50 pm
by mastaloo
Whoops, I guess we should have responded earlier. Sorry about that.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:48 pm
by Lapego1
Tees-Exe Line wrote:I'm sorry there's been some confusion about the location of this tournament's mid-Atlantic mirror. Based on an inquiry of mine in December, I guess that Delaware has been considering mirroring this. However, not having heard anything since a reply that essentially said "we'll consider it" at that time, I accepted Trevor Davis' proposal to host a "mid-atlantic mirror" at CMU. I think that Trevor will post an announcement to that effect soon.
FYI, I don't think it would be a huge issue hosting it at both places, as they're over 5 hours apart. I don't think there are too many teams halfway between CMU and Delaware or anything, but I could be wrong.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:08 pm
by Unicolored Jay
If a mirror is indeed at CMU then Ohio State will most likely go there instead of going to Chicago for this.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:16 pm
by Pilgrim
Lapego1 wrote:
Tees-Exe Line wrote:I'm sorry there's been some confusion about the location of this tournament's mid-Atlantic mirror. Based on an inquiry of mine in December, I guess that Delaware has been considering mirroring this. However, not having heard anything since a reply that essentially said "we'll consider it" at that time, I accepted Trevor Davis' proposal to host a "mid-atlantic mirror" at CMU. I think that Trevor will post an announcement to that effect soon.
FYI, I don't think it would be a huge issue hosting it at both places, as they're over 5 hours apart. I don't think there are too many teams halfway between CMU and Delaware or anything, but I could be wrong.
If there is a mirror at Delaware, I doubt CMU will get enough teams to run. I realize that Delaware is more convenient for coastal teams, but we drive out to the coast for the majority of tournaments, so it seems reasonable to ask you guys to come out here once a year and help support our team finances.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:45 pm
by Sam
Please note the lit distribution has changed.
Also, if you are a team whose plans have changed with the addition of a new mirror, make sure to say so here or in an email.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:32 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Sam wrote:Please note the lit distribution has changed.
What's the rationale to having less European and World lit than any non-NAQT tournament? (And not much more than the NAQT distribution; they have 1 Euro+World per 26.)

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:46 pm
by Magister Ludi
Yeah what would be in the mysterious "literature written in English" that is separate from American and British literature?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:49 pm
by The King's Flight to the Scots
Magister Ludi wrote:Yeah what would be in the mysterious "literature written in English" that is separate from American and British literature?
Canadian and Australian, maybe? People like Salman Rushdie?

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 pm
by Susan
There's a fair amount of world literature written in English (Matt mentions Salman Rushdie; one could add people like Vikram Seth, Jamaica Kincaid, Derek Walcott, Wole Soyinka, Nadine Gordimer, Ngugi wa Thiongo's pre-1986 work, etc.), but seems like this distribution might end up being pretty weirdly skewed (postcolonialism bowl? Commonwealth bowl?).

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:09 pm
by vcuEvan
Susan wrote:There's a fair amount of world literature written in English (Matt mentions Salman Rushdie; one could add people like Vikram Seth, Jamaica Kincaid, Derek Walcott, Wole Soyinka, Nadine Gordimer, Ngugi wa Thiongo's pre-1986 work, etc.), but seems like this distribution might end up being pretty weirdly skewed (postcolonialism bowl? Commonwealth bowl?).
I was assuming that part of the distribution could include other American and British things, which would make sense from a writing enough questions perspective.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:10 pm
by Matt Weiner
1/1 American
1/1 British
1/1 Literature written in English
1/1 European and World (not in English)
So it seems to me that what we have here is an additional 1/1 on anything in English, not excluding additional American or British literature, which has been done at several tournaments before.

Much about this tournament seems like a bad idea, and I have no faith that the writers are going to be able to overcome the handicaps they have put upon themselves with their whimiscal distribution and general insistence on reinventing the wheel. However, we don't need to pile on further by suspending our own reading-comprehension skills and assuming the worst about things that have well-established meanings in quizbowl.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:11 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Cernel Joson wrote:
Magister Ludi wrote:Yeah what would be in the mysterious "literature written in English" that is separate from American and British literature?
Canadian and Australian, maybe? People like Salman Rushdie?
That's true. So, I'll admit that the proposed distro is a route to incorporate what would usually be called, for convenience, world lit into not-quite-world areas of the distribution. (I assumed "lit written in English" would largely entail more American and British.) The issue--even if you intend it to be 1/1 Commonwealth Lit, in essence--is that the distribution is sort of orthogonal to what anyone prepares for. (It would be like having a lit subdistribution of 1/1 non-world prose, 1/1 non-world poetry, 1/1 non-world drama, and 1/1 world... even if in that situation, it's possible to write a tournament that incidentally provides 1/1 American, 1/1 British, and 1/1 Euro, it's also impossible to expect that.

This isn't to defend the extant literature distribution (though I do think that it's a better distribution than what you're proposing); I think it's very difficult to argue that one distribution is superior in all cases to all others. (Obviously 4/4 American lit is worse than almost all other distributions, but once you get to trying to distinguish "the best" from "epsilon away from the best," your criteria get sticky.) What I do think it is possible to argue, and what I think ought to be argued in this situation, is that by presenting a new category like this undermines distributional expectations, hindering preparation, and as such regular season tournaments aren't the best place for such innovation.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:11 pm
by Sam
The "literature written in English" category wouldn't exclude American or British. Some rounds may have more than 1/1 of those.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:46 pm
by Magister Ludi
Matt Weiner wrote:
1/1 American
1/1 British
1/1 Literature written in English
1/1 European and World (not in English)
So it seems to me that what we have here is an additional 1/1 on anything in English, not excluding additional American or British literature, which has been done at several tournaments before.

Much about this tournament seems like a bad idea, and I have no faith that the writers are going to be able to overcome the handicaps they have put upon themselves with their whimiscal distribution and general insistence on reinventing the wheel. However, we don't need to pile on further by suspending our own reading-comprehension skills and assuming the worst about things that have well-established meanings in quizbowl.
I think it is a fair question--when dealing with a tournament that already has a quirky distribution and a disregard for some tournament norms-- to ask for clarification and not assume that everything is necessarily following their established meanings in quizbowl. I guess I felt it was a bit arbitrary to decide to include 1/1 extra literature written in English and just wanted to make sure it wasn't anglophone world literature or Canadian literature that might skew the distribution in some way.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:47 pm
by DumbJaques
If there is a mirror at Delaware, I doubt CMU will get enough teams to run. I realize that Delaware is more convenient for coastal teams, but we drive out to the coast for the majority of tournaments, so it seems reasonable to ask you guys to come out here once a year and help support our team finances.
I certainly want to support CMU financially, but driving 5 hours and doing the hotel thing to play a tournament that's already starting off with a wonky mission statement and is written, entirely, by first-time editors (who recently submitted a TIT packet I'd call "mediocre" in most categories). . . I'm sorry dude, that's just too tough of a sell. I'd certainly come out to CMU for an IO mirror, or indeed for a whole number of tournaments that aren't this one, but barring some kind of confirmation of set quality or a UD mirror, I don't think Maryland is likely to play this tournament.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:45 am
by mastaloo
DumbJaques wrote:but barring some kind of confirmation of set quality or a UD mirror, I don't think Maryland is likely to play this tournament.
I can definitely tell you that there won't be a Delaware mirror now.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:49 pm
by Tees-Exe Line
About "Literature Written in English": basically, the tournament will have more American and British literature in it than I previously said. The reason that I wrote it that way is to say that South African, Australian, and whatever else you might call "Anglo" and that you might normally find in a "world literature" distribution will not, in this case, be in world literature. So let's say the literature distribution might be better described as "3/3 Anglo," of which at least 1/1 American and 1/1 British, and 1/1 non-Anglo.

As for the tournament quality, I don't think it's bad at all, though I'm not sure what I can credibly do to convince you otherwise. I can't speak to my teammates' TIT submission other than to say I had nothing to do with it, and although the distribution in this tournament is different than the norm, I'd think that would be a positive distinguishing characteristic. Then again, I'm a liberal.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:02 pm
by Cheynem
Marshall and Bruce, the original odd couple

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:24 am
by No Rules Westbrook
I applaud the effort to reinvent quizbowl's wheel. I'm not sure how successful or unsuccessful this event will be, but if it flounders, it won't be because of a 1/1 distribution problem.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:34 pm
by grapesmoker
DumbJaques wrote:
If there is a mirror at Delaware, I doubt CMU will get enough teams to run. I realize that Delaware is more convenient for coastal teams, but we drive out to the coast for the majority of tournaments, so it seems reasonable to ask you guys to come out here once a year and help support our team finances.
I certainly want to support CMU financially, but driving 5 hours and doing the hotel thing to play a tournament that's already starting off with a wonky mission statement and is written, entirely, by first-time editors (who recently submitted a TIT packet I'd call "mediocre" in most categories). . . I'm sorry dude, that's just too tough of a sell. I'd certainly come out to CMU for an IO mirror, or indeed for a whole number of tournaments that aren't this one, but barring some kind of confirmation of set quality or a UD mirror, I don't think Maryland is likely to play this tournament.
Quizbowl players have made far more taxing trips for far less. If you don't want to come, that's up to you, but please don't make it sound like it's some great hardship.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:15 am
by evilmonkey
Oh, hey, this sounds like fun. We'll be there. (It remains to be seen whether this "we" involves half a team, a full team, or two teams).

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:20 am
by Broad-tailed Grassbird
evilmonkey wrote:Oh, hey, this sounds like fun. We'll be there. (It remains to be seen whether this "we" involves half a team, a full team, or two teams).
quoted, because otherwise I would just be re-wording his message for us.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:45 pm
by Tees-Exe Line
Nalin and Bryce,

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension, but allow me to confirm that the message I should take from your two posts is that each of Michigan State and Notre Dame will come to the Chicago site with at least one (possibly partial) team and perhaps with two.

Thanks.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm
by Broad-tailed Grassbird
Tees-Exe Line wrote:Nalin and Bryce,

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension, but allow me to confirm that the message I should take from your two posts is that each of Michigan State and Notre Dame will come to the Chicago site with at least one (possibly partial) team and perhaps with two.

Thanks.
Yes, that is in fact correct. For us.

Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: The Sack of Antwerp (Chicago 2/19/2011)

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:50 pm
by evilmonkey
nalin wrote:
Tees-Exe Line wrote:Nalin and Bryce,

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension, but allow me to confirm that the message I should take from your two posts is that each of Michigan State and Notre Dame will come to the Chicago site with at least one (possibly partial) team and perhaps with two.

Thanks.
Yes, that is in fact correct. For us.
And it is now my turn to quote Nalin, as his response is exactly what I want to say.