GCAT Interest

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Scott
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GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

Date
I am wanting to do this a few weeks before HSNCT as a season closer/nationals warm-up.

Quality
Also, I will be doing everything to insure that this tournament is platinum (or at least gold) PACE certified.
I really want this thing to be one of the highest quality tournaments in the state.
This will be highly determined by whether or not we can draw the teams I am hoping for.
Being located in centrally between Louisville and Nashville will help us draw many teams.

Stats
We will be keeping stats on laptops using SQBS.
We will also be using the laptops for reading the questions instead of having hard copies.
We will give away awards for the top 5 scorers before lunch.

Questions
There is a chance we will house-write, but...
We will likely be using a mirror of another tournament.
Please feel free to give input on what tournament you would like to see mirrored.

Format
As far as format, this is crazy, but I really want to do it.
In order for the system to work, we will need exactly 36 teams.
We will have the teams seeded into 6 pools of 6 teams.
Before lunch, teams will play a full pool round robin for 5 matches.

After lunch, we will follow a similar format as NSC.
There would be 6 new pools of 6 teams each.
The top two pools after lunch would both consist of three pool winners and three runners up.
No team would be in a pool with a team they played early in the day.
Each pool would then have another round robin to equal 10 total games.

Then, similar to PACE, the lower 4 brackets would play the corresponding team in the bracket containing similar level teams.
In the top two brackets the bottom 2 teams of the brackets would do the same.
The top four teams would play each of the other top 2 teams from the corresponding bracket.
This would lead to full round robin results for the top four teams at the tournament.
At this point, if a single team has been undefeated in afternoon play, they will be declared the winner.
If not, there will be an advantage final between the top two teams.

This may seem confusing, but I would love to see it happen.
Every team would be guaranteed 11 games, which is unheard of at KY tournaments.
The top teams would be playing 12-14 games each.

Field
We are hoping to pull together an outstanding field of teams from across the nation.
Here is the 36 teams I would love to have, I will mark when they have expressed interest.
Also feel free to express interest if your team is not on this list.
A teams will be given preference if the field happens to fill early.

Expressed Interest:
Flemming A
Flemming B

Side Events
We may have a side singles event on a specific subject during the lunch time.
This will be either lit or social science if it happens.
Last edited by Scott on Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:31 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

Here are some things to consider:

1. What type of questions would you like to see used?
2. What date would do you think the tournament should be? (We are leaning toward second semester)
3. What format would you like to see used?
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by SoLegit12 »

grayson77 wrote:Here are some things to consider:

1. What type of questions would you like to see used?
2. What date would do you think the tournament should be? (We are leaning toward second semester)
3. What format would you like to see used?
1. HSAPQ, at least NAQT, please. Pyramidal and good, with powers preferably.
2. Not conflicting with the Super Smart Brothers Brawl, Dunbar, or State NAQT tournaments
3. Straight TU/B and PACE-affiliated/certified. Round robins

Edit: Spacing and clarification
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by FCPanther »

Scott,

Glad to hear that Grayson is going to give your tournament a go. Now about those questions:

1. HSAPQ or NAQT would probably be your best bet. Something pyramidal will draw more top flight teams. If you go with something more quick recall oriented there are lots of question sources but some of them are of dubious quality. That has really been the biggest obstacle we've had running our tournament. (If anyone has a line on good questions that fall more in line with the semi-pyramids that KAAC has used PLEASE let me know, we're trying to improve question quality for the FCAT).

2. Second semester sounds great, but please try to avoid January 15th. Just got the confirmation from our principal today that we can host our tournament then (official announcement coming tonight or tomorrow). If we end up staying off of the same date that probably puts you sometime in late march or April (or possibly a season ender in May).

3. TU/B with round robin gets more matches and would be the best way to go if possible. One problem to look at is your staffing situation. Will the GCHS academic team be staffing the event or will you be relying on a great deal of outside help? That can impact how many games are feasible.

Please keep us in mind, the spring can be kind of crazy but if possible we'd love to make the trip.

kg
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

I would actually suggest a later date in the season. The only tourney in Kentucky after State this year was KY NAQT, so there is definitely room for more in that time period. Anyway, I'll be there to moderate/TD/stat slave/whatever you all end up telling me to do.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

Please feel free to add constructive feedback to this thread.
Last edited by Scott on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by FCPanther »

Scott,

I like the look of the format and Fleming is interested. Obviously we're a year away and things can change, but if it's at all possible we'd like to come.

Good luck with the tournament and we hope to see you there, and hopefully before.

kg
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

We would really like to keep this date off of the midwest championship, but still a "season closer."
Any advice on dates in regard to this?
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by FCPanther »

The first couple of weeks in May are AP exams. The first Saturday in particular would probably be bad since that's right in the middle, and I would surmise that many participants could be preoccupied with exams.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

We may actually hold our tournament in late April to avoid the most conflicts.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by FCPanther »

Sounds good there...only thing in KY that I can think of then would be Derby Festival IF that moves back to the spring. Last I heard the plan was to try that sometime in the fall. Don't know how well that would spread things out in Jefferson Co. with Manuel and U of L also planning fall tournament dates, but that's a whole other topic.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

What teams would be interested if we made this tournament a higher level difficulty event? We are starting the writing process this summer and need to know what type of teams should be the target. I would love to write an HSNCT level event, albeit without crazy amounts of bad trash questions.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

no dont
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Auroni »

grayson77 wrote:What teams would be interested if we made this tournament a higher level difficulty event? We are starting the writing process this summer and need to know what type of teams should be the target. I would love to write an HSNCT level event, albeit without crazy amounts of bad trash questions.
There's not enough low difficulty or regular difficulty high school tournaments to go around; it would benefit your circuit more if you stuck with those.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

grayson77 wrote:What teams would be interested if we made this tournament a higher level difficulty event? We are starting the writing process this summer and need to know what type of teams should be the target. I would love to write an HSNCT level event, albeit without crazy amounts of bad trash questions.
You want a program, who's writing experience in it's entirety is some practice questions written by you, to write an HSNCT level event? I can think of a million things wrong with that picture.

Also, not a whole lot of Kentucky teams want to or have the ability to play an HSNCT level event anyway. Unless your target field size is like 11 teams or something, this needs to be a lower difficulty event.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

Okay, we will probably try to do something along the lines of NAQT IS with a better distribution.
That's something that would be better for the field as a whole.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Kahloon »

Have you formally decided upon a format?
I personally would prefer HSAPQ to NAQT. Alternatively, you can try to mirror any of the high-quality housewritten sets that a lot of Kentucky teams wouldn't otherwise be able to access.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

We will probably not use NAQT for this tournament; nothing against them, but distribution, difficulty and other factors have led to this decision.
We will probably mirror another tournament, considering it is both cheaper and higher quality (hopefully).
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Important Bird Area »

grayson77 wrote:We will probably not use NAQT for this tournament; nothing against them, but distribution, difficulty and other factors have led to this decision.
We will probably mirror another tournament, considering it is both cheaper and higher quality (hopefully).
It's probably worth noting here that we haven't actually set the distribution for our 2010-11 sets yet.

So: I'd appreciate some feedback on what kinds of distribution (and difficulty, and whatever) changes we can make to improve the quality of future sets.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by kayli »

bt_green_warbler wrote:
grayson77 wrote:We will probably not use NAQT for this tournament; nothing against them, but distribution, difficulty and other factors have led to this decision.
We will probably mirror another tournament, considering it is both cheaper and higher quality (hopefully).
It's probably worth noting here that we haven't actually set the distribution for our 2010-11 sets yet.

So: I'd appreciate some feedback on what kinds of distribution (and difficulty, and whatever) changes we can make to improve the quality of future sets.
Where and how should we send this feedback?
Kay, Chicago.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Kwang the Ninja »

bt_green_warbler wrote:
grayson77 wrote:We will probably not use NAQT for this tournament; nothing against them, but distribution, difficulty and other factors have led to this decision.
We will probably mirror another tournament, considering it is both cheaper and higher quality (hopefully).
It's probably worth noting here that we haven't actually set the distribution for our 2010-11 sets yet.

So: I'd appreciate some feedback on what kinds of distribution (and difficulty, and whatever) changes we can make to improve the quality of future sets.
I know I'm not involved in this specific tournament, but I (and presumably a lot of others) would love mACF distribution (especially at SCT/ICT).
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Important Bird Area »

Emailing me is fine, but I'll just go ahead and start a new thread too.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Ondes Martenot »

We will probably not use NAQT for this tournament; nothing against them, but distribution, difficulty and other factors have led to this decision.
Out of curiosity, when you mention difficulty do you mean too easy or too hard?
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Huang »

Both vendors will work perfectly for Kentucky teams. If Danville and Vandy (or w/e nearby hosts) end up using HSAPQ, then I think it would be wise for Grayson to purchase NAQT (just remember to ask for the non-computation version of the IS set).
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

Well, the difficulty is that bad, its mainly distribution.
(Like having as many football questions as RMP at HSNCT; I realize that may be exaggerating.)

Alright, so what we are thinking is...
If there are "a lot" of tournaments using both NAQT and HSAPQ in Kentucky this year, we will mirror another, high quality tournament.
If there are about equal of both, we will use HSAPQ.
If there are very few NAQT, we will go with IS (without computation).
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by SoLegit12 »

Can't have it two weeks before the HSNCT. Culver's Midwest is the same day, which will attract at least Manual, Danville, DCC, Dorman, and Dunbar.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

SoLegit12 wrote:Can't have it two weeks before the HSNCT. Culver's Midwest is the same day, which will attract at least Manual, Danville, DCC, Dorman, and Dunbar.
I see, we are probably actually going to mid-west also.
Maybe we can go for a late April date.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Kouign Amann »

St. Anselm's housewritten set will be available in the timeframe you are considering.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Important Bird Area »

grayson77 wrote:Well, the difficulty is that bad, its mainly distribution.
(Like having as many football questions as RMP at HSNCT; I realize that may be exaggerating.)
For the record:

2010 HSNCT:

4/5 football

5/5 theology
7/6 religious literature
13/14 mythology
7/7 philosophy

That's seven times as much RMP as football even under our existing distribution.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by SoLegit12 »

Prof.Whoopie wrote:St. Anselm's housewritten set will be available in the timeframe you are considering.
I would love to go a mirror of PSAT/NMSQT (or whatever the acronym is). That would probably be the best mirror for this timeframe
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! »

bt_green_warbler wrote:
grayson77 wrote:(Like having as many football questions as Non-G/R Myth at HSNCT)
For the record:

2010 HSNCT:

4/5 football

4/5 Norse+Egyptian+Nonclassical Myth
Fixed.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Important Bird Area »

The above is (sadly) accurate.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

We may very well use the St. Anselm's set for our tournament.
I will see what our coaches and other team members think about it.

Yes, I was exaggerating with the football part, but sports are definitely over represented (in my opinion).
The lack of certain areas of the distribution is a problem.

Also, this has probably been discussed, but what is the real advantage of using a distribution for the set instead of the packet?
It seems like a way for weaker teams to upset better teams because of a lucky distribution for a certain packet...
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Re: GCAT Interest

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grayson77 wrote: Also, this has probably been discussed, but what is the real advantage of using a distribution for the set instead of the packet?
We both have a distribution for the whole set *and* balance each packet to the best of our abilities. (The obvious advantage being the ability to say "this HSNCT will contain exactly 7/6 earth science" without mandating an earth science tossup in each packet.)

Here is the round-by-round breakdown of the 2009 DI SCT.
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Re: GCAT Interest

Post by Scott »

I am going to go ahead a set a tentative date of April 23 for this tournament.
We are hoping to be a mirror of St. Anselm's set, and will guarantee every team 11 rounds.

We are hoping to attract teams from all of Kentucky as well as Northern Tennessee.
It would be nice to get some Ohio/Indian teams, but I realize this isn't very likely.

If anyone has a problem with this tentative information please let me know.
I am aware that this is the Saturday before AP testing begins, but I still think it would be the best date.
Please let me know if April 16 would be an immensely better date to host this.

Please post here if you are interested in attending.
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