The Quizbowl Resource Center

This deserves its own thread.

The results are starting to come into the ScoreZone. WWS won their quarterfinal 424-139, setting the early mark for points we should expect upper level teams to score. Lake Zurich also put up an impressive 373, possibly indicating that they could give Fremd a battle later tonight. Also, my alma mater apparently would not allow Palatine to play, as they only had three students.

Our first upset occurs, as #2 seed (and popular sectional champion pick) Champaign Centennial loses 243-215 to Champaign Central. I should note that 458 combined points in a game is a ton for a game outside of Chicagoland. Something tells me that both of these teams are pretty good. I know David Garb is at that site, as is Mike, so hopefully they were able to talk to those teams.

Also, the number of DQs is up to three, and Fremd beat Viator 410-206.

From Garb: "Post that champaign Central has been warned against using flare guns and sign language during the reading of bonuses." No idea what that means.

I think there's gonna be a Regs thread in AHAN soon. Is Hersey actually legit this year? Or was their game with Viator close just because they are two so-so teams? I was hoping my former team could threaten Fremd for the Reg title and maybe make it to Sectionals, but it looks like they'll have to get over LZ too. I'm excited
for results.

Hopefully this thread can stay here. This one of the few occasions where people who do not usually browse the forums check it out. They will be able to find it here, read the discussion, and hopefully offer input that is not normally heard. I doubt they will know to look in AHAN.

And since I am posting, I should probably mention that specific tossups should probably not be discussed until we know all regionals finished.

BG MSL Champs wrote: Our first upset occurs, as #2 seed (and popular sectional champion pick) Champaign Centennial loses 243-215 to Champaign Central.

That's really too bad. Centennial deserved it.

These matches are going a lot faster than last year, it seems.

Wow 3 forfeits all ready due to lack of players. Good 'ole IHSA.

Generic Illinois Poster #205 wrote:Wow 3 forfeits all ready due to lack of players. Good 'ole IHSA.

Better than last year when there was a regional championship was decided on the uniform rule. That is, a team was assessed a 30 point penalty for non-matching tops and then proceeded to lose the match by 20.

Text from Jonah: Ignatius defeats Whitney Young 525-158.

No explanation as to why this isn't in the scorezone.

EDIT: Explanation: The man who is in charge of that is having computer issues.

Anyone know if Auburn is at full strength?

jdeliverer wrote:Anyone know if Auburn is at full strength?

They only put up 346 in their first match, so I'm guessing not. They might just be playing their B team. Who knows, though...anything can happen on these questions.

Dan-Don wrote:

jdeliverer wrote:Anyone know if Auburn is at full strength?

They only put up 346 in their first match, so I'm guessing not. They might just be playing their B team. Who knows, though...anything can happen on these questions.

They usually sub out in Regionals.

Not sure why Stevenson has no scores posted, but I know it was Stevenson vs. Mundelein in the championship game. Carmel and Barrington also won their first round games. It looked like Barrington might roll in the semifinal, as we had a 130-60 lead after 13 toss-ups (though there were a few egregious errors, on which I won't elaborate, that shouldn't happen in a varsity game in March), wherein Mundelein had only 3 successful buzzes and no more than 10 points in any bonuses. But, from that point we scored a grand total of TWO TU the rest of the way, while Michael and Yadav got on a roll, as Mundelein won going away, 298-194. Despite our self-inflicted wounds, I take nothing away from Mundelein. When they got rolling, I'm not sure doing things different would've mattered. Their math guy was beating Norman. Period. Oh well. It was an amazing win over Libertyville anyway, 331-293, where we erased a 104-point halftime deficit. I think we may have lulled the Libertyville coach into a false sense of security as she decided to start playing her subs to start the 2nd half...

H-F over Providence in a (seriously!)great match at Crete-Monee.

Moving Day wrote:Not sure why Stevenson has no scores posted, but I know it was Stevenson vs. Mundelein in the championship game. Carmel and Barrington also won their first round games. It looked like Barrington might roll in the semifinal, as we had a 130-60 lead after 13 toss-ups (though there were a few egregious errors, on which I won't elaborate, that shouldn't happen in a varsity game in March), wherein Mundelein had only 3 successful buzzes and no more than 10 points in any bonuses. But, from that point we scored a grand total of TWO TU the rest of the way, while Michael and Yadav got on a roll, as Mundelein won going away, 298-194. Despite our self-inflicted wounds, I take nothing away from Mundelein. When they got rolling, I'm not sure doing things different would've mattered. Their math guy was beating Norman. Period. Oh well. It was an amazing win over Libertyville anyway, 331-293, where we erased a 104-point halftime deficit. I think we may have lulled the Libertyville coach into a false sense of security as she decided to start playing her subs to start the 2nd half...

Scores are posted now...Stevenson beat Mundelein 441-243 to advance to sectionals.

McHenry over Auburn 768-341. I told you they were legit.

Um scorezone is wrongm right? Ignatius didn't lose?

Is Deveau really out?

Confirmed by Jonah. Well that Sectional certainly got more interesting. No word yet on OPRF, but presumably OPRF, Loyola, and NT now all have a shot at going downstate.

St. Charles East beats Geneva 289-235 to win their regional

jdeliverer wrote:Is Deveau really out?

Ohhh I can watch BG lose to Deerfield in real time! Thanks ihsa

(sorry garb)

So, I was just saying to Nolan, this has to, has to make the IHSA rethink things, right? I mean, St. Ignatius was a state champion two days ago. Will anyone write emails about this?

So, I was just saying to Nolan, this has to, has to make the IHSA rethink things, right? I mean, St. Ignatius was a state champion two days ago. Will anyone write emails about this?

pff

Dan-Don wrote:So, I was just saying to Nolan, this has to, has to make the IHSA rethink things, right?

Or in IHSA's perspective, this has to, has to make NAQT rethink things, right since at NAQT's tournament someone who didnt even advance past sectionals was proclaimed the state champion, and we all know IHSA is the only real determiner of these things

EDIT: I mean I suck because we're talking about Masonics, not the NAQT State Tournament that Ignatius didnt even win. I guess this still holds and the masons could consider not using QG, just in a worse way than my OP

Dan-Don wrote:So, I was just saying to Nolan, this has to, has to make the IHSA rethink things, right?

Open Letter (work in progress) to IHSA.

Dear IHSA,

Last Saturday (3/6/10), St. Ignatius won the Masonic state tournament. They, however, did not even advance to their sectional meet in the IHSA state series. Clearly, there is something wrong with the way you run things. We in the scholastic bowl community suggest switching to Questions Galore and generally following the format and example of the Masonic tournament. Particularly poignant is the "No Practice Matches or You Will be Disqualified" rule.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Robert Volgman

OPRF just wrapped up. OPRF won.

WOW! BG got stomped. I can't say I saw that coming.

To recap the Libertyville sectional:
#1 Stevenson defeats unseeded Mundelein (they didn't show up at all at the seeding meeting, either)
#2 Fremd defeats #7 Lake Zurich (seeds held)
Unseeded Deerfield defeats #3 Buffalo Grove
#6 Warren defeats #4 Grayslake North (color me unshocked; GLN had a nice record, but their slate of opponents wasn't impressive.)

BTW, if I'm #5 Lake Forest, I'm TICKED at being shipped to Buffalo Grove instead of my rightful pairing with #4 Grayslake North!!! By that geography, they should've sent Barrington to Fremd and Lake Zurich to Stevenson.


EDIT: Updated Warren/GLN result

Is it really horrible that IHSA questions are a relief after the Masonic Lectures?

jdeliverer wrote:Open Letter (work in progress) to IHSA.

Dear IHSA,

Last Saturday (3/6/10), St. Ignatius won the Masonic state tournament. They, however, did not even advance to their sectional meet in the IHSA state series. Clearly, there is something wrong with the way you run things. We in the scholastic bowl community suggest switching to Questions Galore and generally following the format and example of the Masonic tournament. Particularly poignant is the "No Practice Matches or You Will be Disqualified" rule.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
Robert Volgman

Behold, Illinois, a mildly amusing post! This sub-forum could use more of them.

My alma mater got smoked by IMSA but both teams combined for 706 points, which is impressive.

Yeah, we won our regional, and yeah, we sub a lot. We wrapped up at 9:15, and I left school at 9:30, arriving home around 9:45. Dan-Don, matches couldn't be slower. 30/30 is just so so so so long...

It was so bad, I gave up on liveblogging, because it stopped being funny. The best moment was Abid going blurt, blurt, powerneg on three consecutive questions, and Ms. Greene taking him out.

Questions were really really terrible, and I'm embarrassed that I got into such a groove with them. I guess I can't say much more at this point.

And I can't believe Deveau is out of the state series...

So, while moderating a Class A sectional at Princeton, one recurring thought crept into my mind. The high school canon continues to expand upwards, but very few teams in Illinois are growing along with it. This makes it nearly impossible to craft a state series which adequately differentiates between top-tier, nationally competitive teams and simultaneously remains accessible to remainder of the state. Assuming it is possible, this edition of the state series, at least today, did neither. The set lacked any sense of identity or consistency. It’s painfully clear that there are writers with a very limited grasp of pyramidality. For every well-written, clue-dense, pyramidal toss-up, there were ten others penned by writers who haven’t a clue. The IHSA needs to be encouraged to re-think their question writing and editing process entirely. The compromise between good and bad quizbowl evident in the questions, distribution, and rules of the IHSA has created a product universally hated. Today, to me at least, was proof positive that the IHSA state series has become totally illegitimate. Those interested in playing good quizbowl should recognize it as such and move on. Supporters of bad quizbowl can do whatever they want with it and, for all I care, declare themselves state champions of what we’ll know to be fraudulent. Or, the IHSA can devote itself to making real changes that have a positive impact of on the scholastic bowl players and students of Illinois. An editing team with its fingers on the pulse of modern quizbowl should be appointed. The members of this editing team and the writers they choose to employ should be made public. The editors/writers should have access to all the questions produced for the set and work as a team to craft a singular and consistent product. The ongoing and ever-changing debate over tossup/bonus format needs to be put to an end. Pyramidal tossups and mACF bonuses have been proven superior. It is time that teams in Illinois, and more importantly the scholastic players of Illinois, make the decision between legitimacy and illegitimacy. I cannot in good conscience support the existence of a competition that does not seek to reward the most knowledgeable team. I rarely hear scholastic bowl players, suburban or downstate, complaining about the mACF format. Instead, I see inflexible coaches—coaches unfamiliar with the format, unwilling to learn, afraid to be exposed—standing in the way of progress. For the good of the activity and its participants, these coaches must either accept reality or, in the best interest of the students they claim to support, step aside.

Charley Pride wrote:Yeah, we won our regional, and yeah, we sub a lot. We wrapped up at 9:15, and I left school at 9:30, arriving home around 9:45. Dan-Don, matches couldn't be slower. 30/30 is just so so so so long...

It was so bad, I gave up on liveblogging, because it stopped being funny. The best moment was Abid going blurt, blurt, powerneg on three consecutive questions, and Ms. Greene taking him out.

Questions were really really terrible, and I'm embarrassed that I got into such a groove with them. I guess I can't say much more at this point.

And I can't believe Deveau is out of the state series...

That was such a stupid leadin.

To those using our victory over St. Ignatius as a reason to denounce the state series, I'd like to offer a few comments. It may seem strange that an unseeded team upset the number 1 seed in the sectional and, in the opinion of many, one of the best teams in the state. But consider this. The Niles West scholastic bowl program is not a particularly developed program. Our coach doesn't particularly have a huge interest in his job and, year in and year out, our school would do little more than compete in our conference tournament and then the state series. This year, we happened upon a particularly strong team. Our entire lineup is seniors, at the pinnacle of their ability. Too, this year we picked up Paul Domer, who had never even heard of scholastic bowl before the season started and has a vast, vast bank of knowledge in the fields of history and fine arts. I've watched him especially grow throughout the year into a strong player; he really just needed match practice. It's not surprising that we weren't seeded considering the only record our coach submitted was our conference record (7-3), ignoring the one other scholastic bowl tournament (New Trier Varsity) and our victory in non-scholastic bowl at the Huskie Bowl. He also did not attend the seeding meeting. And, given that our team is especially strong in math and especially weak in literature (hence making the IHSA distribution highly favorable for us), we're what many would call "raw talent." Nobody has heard of us because we didn't get out much. But when we beat Deveau St. Iggy, it wasn't because the questions were god awful or we got lucky, we just, for one game, outplayed them (also, Deveau negged a considerable number of times).

Jacopo Robusti wrote:

Charley Pride wrote:Yeah, we won our regional, and yeah, we sub a lot. We wrapped up at 9:15, and I left school at 9:30, arriving home around 9:45. Dan-Don, matches couldn't be slower. 30/30 is just so so so so long...

It was so bad, I gave up on liveblogging, because it stopped being funny. The best moment was Abid going blurt, blurt, powerneg on three consecutive questions, and Ms. Greene taking him out.

Questions were really really terrible, and I'm embarrassed that I got into such a groove with them. I guess I can't say much more at this point.

And I can't believe Deveau is out of the state series...

That was such a stupid leadin.

Was this the [removed] tossup?

Aaron Goldfein wrote:To those using our victory over St. Ignatius as a reason to denounce the state series, I'd like to offer a few comments. It may seem strange that an unseeded team upset the number 1 seed in the sectional and, in the opinion of many, one of the best teams in the state. But consider this. The Niles West scholastic bowl program is not a particularly developed program. Our coach doesn't particularly have a huge interest in his job and, year in and year out, our school would do little more than compete in our conference tournament and then the state series. This year, we happened upon a particularly strong team. Our entire lineup is seniors, at the pinnacle of their ability. Too, this year we picked up Paul Domer, who had never even heard of scholastic bowl before the season started and has a vast, vast bank of knowledge in the fields of history and fine arts. I've watched him especially grow throughout the year into a strong player; he really just needed match practice. It's not surprising that we weren't seeded considering the only record our coach submitted was our conference record (7-3), ignoring the one other scholastic bowl tournament (New Trier Varsity) and our victory in non-scholastic bowl at the Huskie Bowl. He also did not attend the seeding meeting. And, given that our team is especially strong in math and especially weak in literature (hence making the IHSA distribution highly favorable for us), we're what many would call "raw talent." Nobody has heard of us because we didn't get out much. But when we beat Deveau St. Iggy, it wasn't because the questions were god awful or we got lucky, we just, for one game, outplayed them (also, Deveau negged a considerable number of times).

I remember reading for you guys at Huskie Bowl and you did very well in the matches I saw you. The way you guys described it, you are a solid program who is good at IHSA format. I offer you a congrats for your victory over a very good St. Ignatius squad.

jdeliverer wrote:

Jacopo Robusti wrote:

Charley Pride wrote:Yeah, we won our regional, and yeah, we sub a lot. We wrapped up at 9:15, and I left school at 9:30, arriving home around 9:45. Dan-Don, matches couldn't be slower. 30/30 is just so so so so long...

It was so bad, I gave up on liveblogging, because it stopped being funny. The best moment was Abid going blurt, blurt, powerneg on three consecutive questions, and Ms. Greene taking him out.

Questions were really really terrible, and I'm embarrassed that I got into such a groove with them. I guess I can't say much more at this point.

And I can't believe Deveau is out of the state series...

That was such a stupid leadin.

Was this the OMIT tossup?

Yo, omit that word that I omitted.

Robert: You can't discuss answer lines, I think.

Jacopo Robusti wrote:Robert: You can't discuss answer lines, I think.

I'm told you can.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU TOSSUP MARGARET CHASE SMITH?

HOW THE HELL DO YOU WRITE QUESTIONS THIS BAD? THEY'RE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN LAST YEAR.

To be fair, the physics and art were well-written.

And the Hermione Granger tossup may have been the best written of the day

jdeliverer wrote:And the Hermione Granger tossup may have been the best written of the day

This is undoubtedly true.

Yeah, I don't know why questions wouldn't be cleared. If for any reason, the handful of regionals that haven't posted ScoreZone reports actually got postponed, we can just FedEx them some boxes of fudgsicles.

Charley Pride wrote:
HOW THE HELL DO YOU TOSSUP MARGARET CHASE SMITH?

Well, they have to think about conversion. I'm sure IHSA wants to make questions accessible to all levels, by asking questions about more recent people like Smith, as opposed to ancient politicians, such as George Washington.

On that note, does anyone know the results from the Naperville Central regional?

Aaron Goldfein wrote:Our entire lineup is seniors, at the pinnacle of their ability.

Ok, but just because some of St. Ignatius' non-senior starters haven't "peaked" yet (or "pinnacle-ed"), doesn't mean that their knowledge isn't vastly superior to the knowledge of 4 or 5 of your starters. They put up 21.25 ppb to your 15.47 at NTV.

Aaron Goldfein wrote:And, given that our team is especially strong in math and especially weak in literature (hence making the IHSA distribution highly favorable for us),

The reason that St. Ignatius powerhouse Andrew Deveau even plays for St. Ignatius is because he takes college-level math classes. Unless one of your teammates sits next to him in math class at UIC, Andrew almost certainly makes St. Ignatius "strong"-er in math, of which computational questions are given at least a 5/0 distribution. But yet, you won. It so apparent, then that IHSA distribution alone didn't favor you, the IHSA's very inclusion of computational questions, with their inherently unfair nature, did. (For more information, please see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9603). Therefore, we have every "reason to denounce the state series."

Aaron Goldfein wrote:It's not surprising that we weren't seeded considering the only record our coach submitted was our conference record (7-3), ignoring the one other scholastic bowl tournament (New Trier Varsity) and our victory in non-scholastic bowl at the Huskie Bowl. He also did not attend the seeding meeting.

That's called misrepresenting your team at a seeding meeting, and it sucks. I know: I lost a Regional in similar fashion last year. As much as we all malign the state series, it is a big deal. If your team is truly that favored by the IHSA format, and your coach just needed help communicating that to the meeting, anyone on this forum would have gladly provided it.

Aaron Goldfein wrote:Nobody has heard of us because we didn't get out much.

But, you played an NAQT A-Set at Huskie Bowl. NAQT distribution contains your strength of computational math, often at the expense of your weaknesses like literature. It was probably ill-advised to play a novice-level set that featured your strengths; if you truly are a team capable of outplaying Ignatius (see quote below), you belong playing quizbowl with the big boys.

Aaron Goldfein wrote:But when we beat Deveau St. Iggy, it wasn't because the questions were god awful or we got lucky, we just, for one game, outplayed them (also, Deveau negged a considerable number of times).

Yes. I can't refute this. You did outplay the #2 team in the state in a format that I've heard described as a the "Ninth Circle of Hell," and which features non-pyramidal questions in topics such as Language Arts, Driver's Ed, Computational Math, Industrial Arts, Agriculture, et cetera.

Charley Pride wrote: HOW THE HELL DO YOU TOSSUP MARGARET CHASE SMITH?

HOW THE HELL DO YOU WRITE QUESTIONS THIS BAD? THEY'RE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN LAST YEAR.

This is what happens when you have no conception of a canon. Believe me, I know first hand (as does anyone who played Tau Beta Pi at UIUC last year. Sorry!)

jdeliverer wrote:

Charley Pride wrote:
HOW THE HELL DO YOU TOSSUP MARGARET CHASE SMITH?

Well, they have to think about conversion. I'm sure IHSA wants to make questions accessible to all levels, by asking questions about more recent people like Smith, as opposed to ancient politicians, such as George Washington.

I hope you're joking.

On a different note, bad quizbowl teams aren't inherently annoying, but when they start taunting you for knowing things, it's incredibly infuriating. I wanted to hit that kid.

Dan-Don wrote:which features non-pyramidal questions in topics such as Driver's Ed

I almost forgot - did anyone else notice a conspicuously absent category in this year's regionals?

Dan-Don wrote:

Aaron Goldfein wrote:Nobody has heard of us because we didn't get out much.

But, you played an NAQT A-Set at Huskie Bowl. NAQT distribution contains your strength of computational math, often at the expense of your weaknesses like literature. It was probably ill-advised to play a novice-level set that featured your strengths; if you truly are a team capable of outplaying Ignatius (see quote below), you belong playing quizbowl with the big boys.

Jumping in to say that Aaron signed up NW for Huskie Bowl after the Prison Bowl field had filled up. (Had we the opportunity, we'd much rather have had NW in the Prison Bowl mirror over Fremd (a team that audibly complained about the choice of questions {distribution and bonus format} in the hallways between matches), but you can't kick people out of tourneys )

So this doesn't hold, but Dan-Don didn't know about it. Carry on!