PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Hey, so I know PACE is more than a week away, but will there be any attempts to do a similiar predictions/rankings type thing as Chris is doing for HSNCT in the coming week or two?
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I remember Fred doing a liveblog of the actual event last year, but I'm not sure if that's going to continue/expand.Secretary of Bobcats wrote:Hey, so I know PACE is more than a week away, but will there be any attempts to do a similiar predictions/rankings type thing as Chris is doing for HSNCT in the coming week or two?
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I'd do it, but I would want to see the brackets first. (And there would be no analysis forthcoming, either.)
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I am hopeful something interesting can be done involving the PACE NSC and the Internet, specifically things happening at the former being written about on the latter at an almost simultaneous rate of occurrence.
Edit: Grammar'd
Edit: Grammar'd
Fred Morlan
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
OK-
Still wondering about schedule, location, and other information that I really would like to have this week so I can get it out to my team and make itineraries. Any hope we'll get tourney materials in the next couple of days? I hate to be a pest, but this is a major travel event for us.
Still wondering about schedule, location, and other information that I really would like to have this week so I can get it out to my team and make itineraries. Any hope we'll get tourney materials in the next couple of days? I hate to be a pest, but this is a major travel event for us.
Joshua Rutsky
VP for Curriculum and Camp Operations, Qwiz
ASCA Board Member
Hoover High School Coach (Retired)
VP for Curriculum and Camp Operations, Qwiz
ASCA Board Member
Hoover High School Coach (Retired)
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Mr. Rutsky - those should be sent out in an email over the next 24 hours, I hope.
Fred Morlan
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Where can I find the official rules for this tournament?
Stephen Liu
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
The updated rules, along with an email to team coaches regarding the event's schedule, should be released in the next 24 hours or so.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I've split the discussion of the five-second rule, or the two- or three-second rule or what have you, to a new thread.
Susan
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Just a reminder that there is still planned construction on the Metro next weekend. If you're planning on using Metro, make sure you allow enough time for delays.The Motley Eye wrote:http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/P ... s=facebook
Metro is closing the Orange Line between the East Falls Church and West Falls Church stops for construction on PACE NSC weekend. They are running shuttle bus service between the two stations, which will add delays if you're planning on using Metro to get to GMU or your hotel.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Did this ever happen? Neither me nor our coach ever received such an email.The Granny wrote:The updated rules, along with an email to team coaches regarding the event's schedule, should be released in the next 24 hours or so.
Raynell Cooper
Arcadia ES '04
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Hi,
Yes, the rules were finished as advertised and posted here. A link was in the e-mail that I sent to all coaches last week. Please send me your coach's e-mail address so I can verify receipt, as all other important information will reach coaches by e-mail.
M
Yes, the rules were finished as advertised and posted here. A link was in the e-mail that I sent to all coaches last week. Please send me your coach's e-mail address so I can verify receipt, as all other important information will reach coaches by e-mail.
M
Mike Sorice
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
What is included in the other important information you mentioned? I have the initial e-mail, but chances are I won't hear from my coach between now and Saturday.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I'll make a post with everything soon, after my second e-mail to coaches.
M
M
Mike Sorice
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Quick question:
What is meant by "hidden power mark"?
Edit: Never mind.
What is meant by "hidden power mark"?
Edit: Never mind.
Last edited by Bloodwych on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in previous incarnations of NSC, a power was anything before FTP. Blind powers are what most conventional tournaments use.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Blind powers are now what this tournament is using as well.BGSO wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in previous incarnations of NSC, a power was anything before FTP. Blind powers are what most conventional tournaments use.
EDIT: oh, reading, my old foe. You knew that.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Yes. The idea is that you don't know where the power mark is in a question. (And, of course, some tournaments don't use powers at all, but most that do use blind powers, as David said.)BGSO wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in previous incarnations of NSC, a power was anything before FTP. Blind powers are what most conventional tournaments use.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Good luck to everyone at PACE NSC this weekend. Hopefully next year we can make it there.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
For those who had not found it by now, there will be liveblogs at http://pacensc.wordpress.com for each day of the PACE NSC.
Janet Berry
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Douglas Freeman 2005, 2006, 2007
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J. Sargeant Reynolds CC 2008, 2009, 2014
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Live coverage, y'all. BOOM
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Also, Twitter!
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Unofficial stats
As of right now, the top brackets look like:
From Davies: MW A and Stevenson
From Glackens: SC A and Auburn
From Henri: Southside A and Dunbar A
From Lawson: Saint Anselm's and Whitman
From Luks: LASA and TJ A
From Prendergast: Dorman A and DCC A
From Shinn: Georgetown and circle of death between duPont Manual A, Jasper Lee, and St Ignatius
From Sloan: Hunter A and Seven Lakes A
These are not final and completely unofficial.
As of right now, the top brackets look like:
From Davies: MW A and Stevenson
From Glackens: SC A and Auburn
From Henri: Southside A and Dunbar A
From Lawson: Saint Anselm's and Whitman
From Luks: LASA and TJ A
From Prendergast: Dorman A and DCC A
From Shinn: Georgetown and circle of death between duPont Manual A, Jasper Lee, and St Ignatius
From Sloan: Hunter A and Seven Lakes A
These are not final and completely unofficial.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Sloan is now a circle of death for first with Hunter, Torrey Pines, and Seven Lakes.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
St. Ignatius won the circle of death; Manual takes 3rd, Jasper 4th.Westwon wrote:Unofficial stats
As of right now, the top brackets look like:
From Davies: MW A and Stevenson
From Glackens: SC A and Auburn
From Henri: Southside A and Dunbar A
From Lawson: Saint Anselm's and Whitman
From Luks: LASA and TJ A
From Prendergast: Dorman A and DCC A
From Shinn: Georgetown and circle of death between duPont Manual A, Jasper Lee, and St Ignatius
From Sloan: Hunter A and Seven Lakes A
These are not final and completely unofficial.
Brad Fischer
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Fun fact: our tiebreaker against Hunter finished 210-210. All tossups and all but one bonus part was converted. We played 3/3 as a "sudden death" and Hunter got all 3 tossups.
Stephen Liu
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
What was it after 8, 210-130.gyre and gimble wrote:Fun fact: our tiebreaker against Hunter finished 210-210. All tossups and all but one bonus part was converted. We played 3/3 as a "sudden death" and Hunter got all 3 tossups.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
State College and Southside are the finalists. First is the third place game, though, between LASA and Maggie Walker.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Which C. Dees is reading!Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:State College and Southside are the finalists. First is the third place game, though, between LASA and Maggie Walker.
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
And is on a half-packet for some reason.
Harry White
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Maggie Walker wins 3rd place, GDS takes 6th
Janet Berry
[email protected]
she/they
--------------
J. Sargeant Reynolds CC 2008, 2009, 2014
Virginia Commonwealth 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,
Douglas Freeman 2005, 2006, 2007
[email protected]
she/they
--------------
J. Sargeant Reynolds CC 2008, 2009, 2014
Virginia Commonwealth 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013,
Douglas Freeman 2005, 2006, 2007
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Because the rules of the tournament have always been announced to have half packet tiebreakers for tied teams, other than the finals.The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:And is on a half-packet for some reason.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs
"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Mystery solved!Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:Because the rules of the tournament have always been announced to have half packet tiebreakers for tied teams, other than the finals.The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:And is on a half-packet for some reason.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
State College wins over Southside.
Aaron Rosenberg
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
When will packets be posted?
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Congrats to State College on their win! And congrats to Southside for a great run to the finals.
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Sometime after right now!NoWayItsTanay wrote:When will packets be posted?
Hopefully soon, but we may look them over first.
Fred Morlan
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
University of Kentucky CoP, 2017
International Quiz Bowl Tournaments, CEO, co-owner
former PACE member, president, etc.
former hsqbrank manager, former NAQT writer & subject editor, former hsqb Administrator/Chief Administrator
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Congratulations to State College! Based on your performances at PACE and NAQT SC and Maggie Walker certainly seem worthy co-National Champions!
Phil Blessman- Culver Academies Head Quizbowl Coach
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Yeah, and it was 210-90 after 7.Sir Thopas wrote:What was it after 8, 210-130.gyre and gimble wrote:Fun fact: our tiebreaker against Hunter finished 210-210. All tossups and all but one bonus part was converted. We played 3/3 as a "sudden death" and Hunter got all 3 tossups.
This is most certainly true. A big congrats to both teams. And I noticed State College was once again first to stand up and congratulate their co-finalists, just like they did at HSNCT.pblessman wrote:Congratulations to State College! Based on your performances at PACE and NAQT SC and Maggie Walker certainly seem worthy co-National Champions!
Stephen Liu
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Harvard '14
Stanford '17
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Stanford '17
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Congratulations to State College---your outstanding 2nd half comeback against a GREAT Southside team was truly exceptional and worthy of the Championship it earned you---and the kids at Southside were among the first to give you a standing ovation for that comeback, so kudos to them as well---great play and great sportsmanship. Congrats also to Maggie Walker and LASA---your tiebreaker for 3rd place was similarly compelling and worthy of the championship calibre teams you both are. And, if I might segue to some 2nd flight teams for a moment---thanks for the great competition. In almost every match we played, the games went back and forth and in general were sharply played as well. My kids loved the excellence of the competition as well as the mutual respect that was displayed throughout. And, without wishing to slight anyone else in this regard, Saint Joe's sends a special thank you and shout out to Jasper Lee of Solon & William Horton of Alpharetta, not only for the stellar calibre of your play, which is obvious to anyone fortunate enough to witness either of you in action, but also for the collegial and generous spirit with which you play, which is a joy to behold. Finally, there is a young man on Loyola whose abilities in physics almost sent our match into a tiebreaker who also deserves such a shout out but sadly we did not get your name---but you know who you are, so thank you as well for your keen display of sportsmanship and intellectual excellence. It was a delight to meet you. And, before closing, I would be remiss if i did not thank Mike Sorice and the entire PACE community for running a wonderful tournament. So: Thank you.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I'm pretty much certain that the Loyola player you're referring to is Nolan Winkler.
Abid Haseeb
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Thanks for the info, Abid. And, if I might ask, how did your narrow it down to Nolan? Kidding, of course---I imagine he displays the same admirable abilities and qualities in matches in Illinois as well, making it fairly easy to solve this mystery. And thanks again for doing so.
Ed Powers
Coach
SJHS Academic Team
Metuchen, NJ
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
A much-deserved congratulations to State College, the clear champion in a Top 8 where no team could go undefeated or lose every game. This tournament showed just how ridiculously good at quizbowl the best of the best high school teams have become, while still offering oodles of good competition for players and teams below that sort-of-frightening level. The new PACE format made games run a lot more quickly, and the 20-point powers help offset the bouncebacks to keep the game balanced.
I do want to comment on two things that could be improved for next year's NSC, both of which have to do with timing in an admittedly difficult-to-run 64 team tournament. The Saturday rounds lasted about two hours longer than originally scheduled, which could be fixed. A lot of the bonuses had overly-long easy and middle parts which seemed to approach three or four lines of text where one or two would do, and while the longer tossups were necessary to top-load the questions with clues for differentiating the best of the best, some began to bog down near the giveaway with easy clue after equally-easy clue. Since this tournament seemed to be written in 12-point TNR, a length cap of 8 lines on tossups and 2 to 2.5 lines on bonus parts would do a lot to keep the tournament moving.
It also seemed like there were pretty large delays in rebracketing and resolving tiebreakers, leading two half-packet games to last almost an hour and a half in one case while the rest of the tournament stayed paused to let the tiebreaker happen. In one case, a superplayoff room turned out to be a stat room for a bracket that had just started playing the previous round. I'm not sure how best to anticipate potential tiebreakers from within a stat room, shuffling the affected teams into a room as quickly as possible, or how to rebracket efficiently with four war rooms spread across two buildings, but it's worth considering the best ways to keep a tournament like this moving well.
I do want to comment on two things that could be improved for next year's NSC, both of which have to do with timing in an admittedly difficult-to-run 64 team tournament. The Saturday rounds lasted about two hours longer than originally scheduled, which could be fixed. A lot of the bonuses had overly-long easy and middle parts which seemed to approach three or four lines of text where one or two would do, and while the longer tossups were necessary to top-load the questions with clues for differentiating the best of the best, some began to bog down near the giveaway with easy clue after equally-easy clue. Since this tournament seemed to be written in 12-point TNR, a length cap of 8 lines on tossups and 2 to 2.5 lines on bonus parts would do a lot to keep the tournament moving.
It also seemed like there were pretty large delays in rebracketing and resolving tiebreakers, leading two half-packet games to last almost an hour and a half in one case while the rest of the tournament stayed paused to let the tiebreaker happen. In one case, a superplayoff room turned out to be a stat room for a bracket that had just started playing the previous round. I'm not sure how best to anticipate potential tiebreakers from within a stat room, shuffling the affected teams into a room as quickly as possible, or how to rebracket efficiently with four war rooms spread across two buildings, but it's worth considering the best ways to keep a tournament like this moving well.
Matt Jackson
University of Chicago '24
Yale '14, Georgetown Day School '10
member emeritus, ACF
University of Chicago '24
Yale '14, Georgetown Day School '10
member emeritus, ACF
- Down and out in Quintana Roo
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
If we qualify for this next year (definitely not a certainty), and it's still in the D.C. area, i think we'll find a way to come and probably skip Chicago.
Speaking of which, anybody know the tentative dates for either HSNCT or NSC next year?
Speaking of which, anybody know the tentative dates for either HSNCT or NSC next year?
Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
Caesar Rodney High School
Camden, Delaware
CRHS '97-'01
University of Delaware '01-'05
CRHS quizbowl coach '06-'12
http://crquizbowl.edublogs.org
Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Speaking as a staffer, it was quite amazing to see a number of terrific teams on display. Besides our eventual, very worthy champion, almost all of the top bracket teams would have been worthy national champions in any other given year. This is impressive. Even teams in the SECOND bracket were teams that would be solid first bracket teams in many years and were very, very impressive teams. Teams that ended up in a bracket lower than they may have liked should be encouraged that the very impressive field made finishing anywhere an accomplishment (and I'm not being sarcastic here!).
I also would like to echo Coach Powers' sentiments that all of the teams i saw showed very impressive sportsmanship. I read for a number of teams--top bracket, bottom bracket, and in between. Throughout the whole day, through blowouts and tight losses and delays, I only noticed a minor handful of complaints or problems. Teams frequently encouraged and congratulated each other, showing a very nice collegial attitude which everyone should try to emulate.
While I am not a dedicated follower of the hgih school circuit, I found it very interesting that while there were some traditional powerhouses in the mix (including the winner), programs that were not well known on the circuit a few years ago (Southside, LASA, St. Anselm's) exploded onto the scene, loaded for bear and ready to win. To use a personal example, I first met Matt Bollinger last year at Cato/Taco. He struck me as a young man who had an interest in quizbowl, but (and if I am misinterpreting Matt's attitudes a year ago, I apologize to him) perhaps it wasn't super important to him. Now, of course, he is unquestionably one of the best high school players in the game. While we should justifiably laud programs built on solid traditions that win championships, we must also acknowledge the rise of other programs in a quick time. This, to me, is very encouraging for high school quizbowl.
Finally, on a personal level, it truly is amazing to see the ways in which high school quizbowl have changed over the years. I played my final HS games in 2002 and now I feel like an old baseball or football player marveling at the new toys the current players have. When I was in HS, I wouldn't have dreamed of attending a collegiate tournament, while almost all of the top flight bracket teams at this tournament had. Many of them have written (!) their own tournaments or at least multiple packets. The solidification of a high school and collegiate circuit filled with quality questions and a supportive atmosphere have made it an exciting and productive time to be a high schooler in quizbowl. I don't want to make it seem like I'm complaining about high schoolers today have advantages I didn't, it's more like an apples and oranges thing--the kids today are doing stuff I wouldn't have dreamed of when I was in high school and the result is a level of competition that truly staggers the mind. During the finals and playoff games, I saw numerous collegiate player staffers (including myself) marvel over some of the buzzes made. It's an exciting time, friends, and I look forward to what the next few years will bring.
I also would like to echo Coach Powers' sentiments that all of the teams i saw showed very impressive sportsmanship. I read for a number of teams--top bracket, bottom bracket, and in between. Throughout the whole day, through blowouts and tight losses and delays, I only noticed a minor handful of complaints or problems. Teams frequently encouraged and congratulated each other, showing a very nice collegial attitude which everyone should try to emulate.
While I am not a dedicated follower of the hgih school circuit, I found it very interesting that while there were some traditional powerhouses in the mix (including the winner), programs that were not well known on the circuit a few years ago (Southside, LASA, St. Anselm's) exploded onto the scene, loaded for bear and ready to win. To use a personal example, I first met Matt Bollinger last year at Cato/Taco. He struck me as a young man who had an interest in quizbowl, but (and if I am misinterpreting Matt's attitudes a year ago, I apologize to him) perhaps it wasn't super important to him. Now, of course, he is unquestionably one of the best high school players in the game. While we should justifiably laud programs built on solid traditions that win championships, we must also acknowledge the rise of other programs in a quick time. This, to me, is very encouraging for high school quizbowl.
Finally, on a personal level, it truly is amazing to see the ways in which high school quizbowl have changed over the years. I played my final HS games in 2002 and now I feel like an old baseball or football player marveling at the new toys the current players have. When I was in HS, I wouldn't have dreamed of attending a collegiate tournament, while almost all of the top flight bracket teams at this tournament had. Many of them have written (!) their own tournaments or at least multiple packets. The solidification of a high school and collegiate circuit filled with quality questions and a supportive atmosphere have made it an exciting and productive time to be a high schooler in quizbowl. I don't want to make it seem like I'm complaining about high schoolers today have advantages I didn't, it's more like an apples and oranges thing--the kids today are doing stuff I wouldn't have dreamed of when I was in high school and the result is a level of competition that truly staggers the mind. During the finals and playoff games, I saw numerous collegiate player staffers (including myself) marvel over some of the buzzes made. It's an exciting time, friends, and I look forward to what the next few years will bring.
Mike Cheyne
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
Formerly U of Minnesota
"You killed HSAPQ"--Matt Bollinger
- Captain Sinico
- Auron
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Half-rounds are in the rules for tiebreakers as mentioned. I will mention to my successor that we might consider changing this for two-way ties, especially for final place in the championship bracket (and I should mention that Dwight Wynne already did suggest it to me, but I didn't implement the change at that time for the reason that doing so would have created a strong possibility that the already-25-round set would have been insufficient to break ties.) As the rules are officially set after the initial tournament meeting, I couldn't have changed to a full packet before the 3rd- and 6th-place tiebreaks, even though I knew at that point that I had four full rounds and assorted extra questions available for three games and that many people found the half-round much less satisfying. It was still a great game, though.The Gambler, the Nun, and the Radio wrote:And is on a half-packet for some reason.
M
Mike Sorice
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
- Captain Sinico
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
I will send the final versions to Dan Goff to be posted on pace-nsc.org later today. They should appear shortly.NoWayItsTanay wrote:When will packets be posted?
M
Mike Sorice
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
- TheKingInYellow
- Rikku
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Are there stats out yet, and I'm just not seeing them?
Graham Moyer
State College 2011
Harvard 2015
State College 2011
Harvard 2015
- Captain Sinico
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
To keep the facts completely straight, the latest Saturday Round 12 finish that I'm aware of was somewhat before 7, which would be an hour and a half late (itinerary start time for Round 12 was 5, so end time 5:30.) Obviously, that's still not acceptable. We are working hard to do that better next year. In fact, we learned some things immediately, seemingly: everything Sunday was on time or early due in part to (really minor) changes in room setup and tiebreaker determination processes.RyuAqua wrote:The Saturday rounds lasted about two hours longer than originally scheduled, which could be fixed.
Length caps are an idea I agree with. I'm not sure to what extent, if any, this tournament violated the one you proposed. Perhaps Chris Ray would comment on that.RyuAqua wrote:Since this tournament seemed to be written in 12-point TNR, a length cap of 8 lines on tossups and 2 to 2.5 lines on bonus parts would do a lot to keep the tournament moving.
I do want it to be noted that the median round-start to round-start length was below 30 minutes, even given the questions, for rounds that were actually going. The Saturday delays were due to a very few rooms starting very late in the early rounds, and due to a tiebreaker issue at the post-Round-7 reseed, as I explain below. Thus, if a question length issue did exist, we had enough high-caliber moderators to effectively render it moot.
Well, two things happened here. First, we wound up with a three-way tie for first at the reseeding point in the bracket that was the slowest at that time. In addition, the first game of it went to overtime. Since, given this year's format, the tournament couldn't be reseeded and therefore couldn't proceed until that tie was discovered, the appropriate tiebreaker determined, and the tiebreaker games played (obviously, we did as much of that in advance as possible,) that conspiracy of circumstances delayed the whole tournament significantly. Unfortunately, given the current format, there's no way to prevent that from happening. Fortunately, we can change (some aspects of) the format to make the rebracketing procedure more robust against long tiebreakers. We will definitely look into doing so.RyuAqua wrote:It also seemed like there were pretty large delays in rebracketing and resolving tiebreakers, leading two half-packet games to last almost an hour and a half in one case while the rest of the tournament stayed paused to let the tiebreaker happen. In one case, a superplayoff room turned out to be a stat room for a bracket that had just started playing the previous round. I'm not sure how best to anticipate potential tiebreakers from within a stat room, shuffling the affected teams into a room as quickly as possible, or how to rebracket efficiently with four war rooms spread across two buildings, but it's worth considering the best ways to keep a tournament like this moving well.
The superplayoff room unavailability was a non-issue. For a variety of reasons, Round 16 (superplayoff round 2) was intentionally made not to start until all other games were complete. Therefore, the game to be played in the room in question, Robinson A101, formerly the flight 3 control room, would not have begun until the attached flight's games were complete anyway. As it wound up, the limiting factor in starting round 16 was the end of games in flight 2, so the room changeover didn't delay the round start of the round at all. Rounds 16, 17 and 18 started at as close to the same time as possible in all (four) rooms.
M
Mike Sorice
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
Former Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-2020) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
Member, ACF (Emeritus), IHSSBCA, & PACE
- Whiter Hydra
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Re: PACE NSC: format changes, 2010 information
Our room finished Round 12 at about 7:15.Captain Sinico wrote:To keep the facts completely straight, the latest Saturday round 12 finish that I'm aware of was somewhat before 7
Harry White
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food
TJHSST '09, Virginia Tech '13
Owner of Tournament Database Search and Quizbowl Schedule Generator
Will run stats for food