Survey Results

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Stained Diviner
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Survey Results

Post by Stained Diviner »

IHSSBCA took a survey of Illinois coaches on a few limited subjects. The results are here. There was also a survey in which students were asked the same questions, the results of which will be posted soon.

Lest this turn into a bash Illinois coaches thread, let me state that many of the coaches compete only in their conferences and IHSA tournaments. Many have a short season of meets and a shorter season of practices, which I believe makes them more willing to turn Scholastic Bowl into an anything goes type of game in terms of where the questions come from. I think it also makes them less willing to experiment or change, since conference play and the IHSA tournament generally aren't good venues for experimentation.

This survey has been a downer for me, since it makes it clear that I head a group of people who on certain issues disagree with me, sometimes by a wide margin. If anybody has any suggestions on where to go from here, I'm listening.

Nobody should worry about the results of this survey being binding on whatever invitational they want to run. If you run a tournament, you need to answer to the teams who are interested in your tournament rather than to the majority of teams in the state your tournament is held in. New Trier will host an mACF format tournament next year as we did this year (next year's will actually be closer to mACF than this year's), and we will attend several throughout Illinois as well.
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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Captain Sinico
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Re: Survey Results

Post by Captain Sinico »

To summarize these results: "don't change things" won in every case except two. Coaches want the IHSA bonus format back at Kickoff (which isn't the same kind of change as the others, since that not-new tournament used that format only this year and was the only one to do so) and to change the amount of programming/scripting (which is a highly polarizing category and certainly among the worst in most senses of the word.)

This seems bad, except that many of these things were themselves changed recently! Given that, one of the following three things is true:
0. The IHSA format is already more or less perfect (laffeaux.)
1. The results of this survey are meaningless unless some way can be found to account for inertia (people voting not to change things if they don't really care: one way or another, most people probably don't really care about most of these issues.)
2. People will, on fairly short timescales, grow to accept and even defend any full-scale change.

So, to summarize here, unless I've made a mistake or we accept the null hypothesis, this survey says: a) that surveys don't mean much until we can find some better way to account for the mass of people who don't care, b) that the powers that be can change anything they want about the game and expect it to be accepted, or c) both.

MaS
Mike Sorice
Coach, Centennial High School of Champaign, IL (2014-) & Team Illinois (2016-2018)
Alumnus, Illinois ABT (2000-2002; 2003-2009) & Fenwick Scholastic Bowl (1999-2000)
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pray for elves
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Re: Survey Results

Post by pray for elves »

I'd just like to know which nine coaches voted that the Driver's Ed distro should be increased. If there were some way to mail them a slap across the face, I'd do it.
Evan
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Re: Survey Results

Post by jonah »

Captain Sinico wrote:Coaches want the IHSA bonus format back at Kickoff
Yes, and unfortunately for them they certainly can't get that for next year, because Kickoff will be run on an IS set. Surely it won't be timed, but THE HATED BONUS FORMAT is back, and there's much much less math. This year's Kickoffs did maintain an approximately-IHSA distribution.
Captain Sinico wrote:that not-new tournament used that format only this year and was the only one to do so
No, New Trier Varsity's format was essentially identical to the Kickoff format.

The frustrating thing for me about this survey is that, as Mike points out, there is almost certainly a massive group of people who actually don't care, but indicated that their preference was to maintain the status quo. We even gave them a "no opinion" option! Argh.

I'm pleased to report that the player survey's results are much more consistent with the opinions of most people on this board (and mine). They will be posted sometime this week.
Jonah Greenthal
National Academic Quiz Tournaments

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AKKOLADE
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Re: Survey Results

Post by AKKOLADE »

Is there a reason there wasn't an option along the lines of "decreased" to serve as a midpoint between "eliminated" and "maintained"? That seems like a whole lot of real estate for opinions that was left uncovered.
Fred Morlan
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Re: Survey Results

Post by jonah »

Those categories are already represented by only one or two questions each throughout the entire state series, so there's not really any room to decrease them without eliminating them.
Jonah Greenthal
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Re: Survey Results

Post by harpersferry »

I think Fred's point is valid. I thought the same thing when taking it as a student. Regardless of the absolute number of questions and whether "decreased" versus "eliminated" is really different, for validity's sake you should have the symmetric response.
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Re: Survey Results

Post by AKKOLADE »

Yeah, I mean, my concern would be that some people would look at it and think "well, I think there should be something from that category so I'll go with maintain."
Fred Morlan
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Re: Survey Results

Post by Stained Diviner »

The problem would be that Decrease would not serve much purpose. Many of these categories come up once every three to four rounds, and the distribution has never been so specific as to say that a particular category should be used, but once every three rounds is too often.

Additionally, such a vote would not make sense. Would somebody vote to decrease Drivers Ed because it's bad but include some Drivers Ed because Eliminate is such a cruel word?
David Reinstein
PACE VP of Outreach, Head Writer and Editor for Scobol Solo and Masonics (Illinois), TD for New Trier Scobol Solo and New Trier Varsity, Writer for NAQT (2011-2017), IHSSBCA Board Member, IHSSBCA Chair (2004-2014), PACE Member, PACE President (2016-2018), New Trier Coach (1994-2011)

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Maxwell Sniffingwell
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Re: Survey Results

Post by Maxwell Sniffingwell »

Captain Sinico wrote:to change the amount of programming/scripting (which is a highly polarizing category and certainly among the worst in most senses of the word.)
Artistic dance looks like it might be close to elimination as well.
Greg Peterson

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rjaguar3
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Re: Survey Results

Post by rjaguar3 »

Captain Sinico wrote:and to change the amount of programming/scripting (which is a highly polarizing category and certainly among the worst in most senses of the word.)
I half-agree. I think stupid programming and scripting (evaluate the following lines of Java code [those who went to HF's tournament know what I mean], "This language was invented in <<YEAR>> by <<NAME NOT REALLY WORTH KNOWING>>," and questions that belong in technology like YouTube celebrities and iPods) should be eliminated. On the other hand, there are real academically important CS topics, like rootkits, goto statements, and garbage collection which would make great tossup answers. Of course, it would require some major editing, as "clues" like "It sounds like a job you wouldn't want to do" suck when there are real, legitimate clues you can have in a CS topic.

So I voted increase, but knowing how IHSA can write bad questions on topics ("Its name make you think of mouthwash"), I can understand your skepticism in adding more CS.
Greg (Vanderbilt 2012, Wheaton North 2008)

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