Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

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Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

That said, I wrote the following questions from the finals packet, and would love to hear feedback on them:
  • MN high school players, don't continue reading this thread if you wish to play this tournament on 3/28.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Literature Singles - 3/13

Post by Ike »

Hey Rob I will created a discussion thread.

CAn you remove your answers, so people who don't know what's going on with this thread won't stumble across your answers by accident?
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Literature Singles Discussion

Post by AKKOLADE »

If you're playing the Minnesota mirror, do not read this thread
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Literature Singles Discussion

Post by at your pleasure »

Stuff I liked: Four Quartets, some random other questions that I have forgotten.
Stuff I disliked: The Inferno question was confusing,as was the "authors created by Borges" tossup, although that may have had something to do with the amount of sleep I got last week. The question on Iranian/Persian lit should have had Farsi in the answer line, but that's a minor quibble.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by theMoMA »

Questions that Rob wrote:


The Weary Blues
Looking Backward
Natsume Soseki
The Libation Bearers
Emma Lazarus
Philip Larkin
The Castle of Otranto
Caliban
The Luck of Roaring Camp
Jose Marti
In the Penal Colony
Lady Chatterley's Lover
Thomas Kenneally
Roland
Raymond Chandler
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by The Laughing Man »

Is this set going to be posted, or not until after the MN tourney? My memory is far too hazy to comment on it until I can see it again.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auroni »

Since the set here was going for "man that's crazy," it could have been a little more consistent in that regard by moving famous lines from The Black Riders down from the leadin of a Stephen Crane tossup to the middle/end.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

Yeah, this is a way better idea for discussion than what I did.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Ike »

I won't post the set until after MN, although if you pop me an email...

There were a few tossups that definitely fit Auroni's description, like the Maupassant tossup and Stephen Crane, but I sort of put them into the prelims.

The playoffs was where all the insane stuff was. I mean Asturias did come up in the prelims, but Auroni's phrase of "man that's crazy," didn't really come up to after the prelims, with round 5 starting to introduce those themes.

I do think I had a few bad ideas for this tournament, like the Dante's Engravings tossup, because i sort of wanted to toss up Dore, but didn't think I should. (I should have.)

I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with the Borges tossup, as if you have read any or all of Borges's works, it becomes crystal clear what's going on.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

I'm about to ask you for the set so I can see the question, but I'd imagine that a tossup on Quain and Menard or whatever (are there others?) would be confusing if you haven't read Ficciones, but it definitely can be done fine otherwise.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auroni »

That "cherry" tossup also seemed pretty insane until the plot clues for The Cherry Orchard. What I meant for "man that's crazy" is "man, those are some crazy answer choices for high school."
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by The Laughing Man »

Hey I don't know your e-mail Ike, so I'll post here. Could you send the set to me at [email protected] and to Graham at [email protected] ?
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sir Thopas »

The Laughing Man wrote:Hey I don't know your e-mail Ike, so I'll post here. Could you send the set to me at [email protected] and to Graham at [email protected] ?
I'd like this too, please. [email protected]
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Tower Monarch »

As would I, outhwest AT gmail DOT com
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by at your pleasure »

I, too would like the set. [email protected]
Anyhow ,the Borges question(as I said eralier in the thread) was probably only confusing due to my exhaustion.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Tower Monarch »

Before I see the rest of the questions I will mention the three that I wish I had played on because they rewarded deep knowledge of things I've read recently: Good Man is Hard to Find, Piazza Tales and Optimist's Daughter. I would have been disappointed if I couldn't superpower these, but if I had played, those clues were all memorable enough to guarantee my buzz. As far as I could tell, everything else rewarded knowledge similarly, and that is a great accomplishment.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Ondes Martenot »

[email protected] please

Might as well try to improve my literature game
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Ike »

ok, in about thirty minutes, everyone should have the set in their inboxes.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Deckard Cain »

sure... mwchadbourne at gmail dot com
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by vcuEvan »

Please send them to me as well thanks:

adamsej2 AT vcu.edu
Last edited by vcuEvan on Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by pray for elves »

enagler at gmail

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by hookemhorns10 »

[email protected]

Thanks a lot, Ike!
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by grashid »

gazirashid at gmail.com

thanks.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Kouign Amann »

As someone who wants to be a good lit player someday: prof.whoopie [at] gmail.com

Thanky
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Nuclear Densometer Test »

To someone who needs to work on his lit....

amitpop22 AT yahoo . com

thanks
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by ieppler »

ieppler09 at gds.org

Thanks.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Lapego1 »

I'd love a copy Ike, [email protected].
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by magin »

Speaking as someone who edited a couple of these (at the college level), seeing lots of new posts containing nothing but email addresses isn't very productive; if you want the set, just email people who have it. Right now, there's thirty posts in this thread and no discussion, which isn't very helpful to Ike or future writers of such sets.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Except a notable difference is that your sets were put up online quickly, and a bunch of people who would be productive in the discussion had already played it, whereas not many college people who could provide input have access to it, and those that do can't jog their memory with it. These are somewhat important differences in how the discussion has to go.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

Southside_amit wrote:Still waiting for that Slavoj Zizek tossup.....
Chicago Open 2008, Editors 3 wrote:This writer examines drafts of “The Ages of the World” by Schelling in his The Indivisible Remainder. In one work, he argues that political subjects rely upon others to know the meaning of “master signifiers,” while in another he analyzes the designs of European toilets. He discusses his notion of enjoyment as a political factor in For They Know Not What They Do, attacks critics of Cartesian subjectivity in The Ticklish Subject, and writes on Gilles Deleuze and consequences in Organs Without Bodies. In other works, he analyzes the evolution of detective fiction and David Lynch’s Lost Highway, but he may be best known for works like The Sublime Object of Ideology in which he reformulates the notion of ideology, and for composing several books on Jacques Lacan. FTP, name this modern philosopher born in Slovenia.
ANSWER: Slavoj Zizek
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by TheKingInYellow »

Could I say that it was interesting that the power mark went beyond for ten points on the Soseki tossup?
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sir Thopas »

TheKingInYelliow wrote:Could I say that it was interesting that the power mark went beyond for ten points on the Soseki tossup?
That happened with Laxness too (Independent People was in power; Iceland was not). Looking at the finals questions, evidently, it seems as if a lot of them are either 20 or 10, with just half a line between the end of superpower and the end of power.

More generally, this brings up an interesting point, which is that Ike told me he was trying to normalize the powers and superpowers difficulty-wise across the set, not along each question. That is, a power for Soseki should require about the same knowledge as a power for Stephen Crane. I'm not sure I agree with this (I'm of the opinion that an author's best-known work should be outside power except for ridiculous outliers like Hoysala), but it's certainly one way to go about it.

Also, this amused me. ANSWER: Felix Krull (accept either) (Yeah, this tossup is way too hard-TG)
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Staircase Groupie »

Sorry to be yet another person spouting off an e-mail address, but I'd be interested in checking these questions out if at all possible.

[email protected]
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Ike »

Ok, I assumed everyone would just email me by looking back at the original post, but from now on, just go ahead and pop an email to Sephiroth0kouko@ gmail.com

One of the problems with dropping titles and nationalities, it takes a small degree of effort to learn that Halldor Laxness is Icelandic, and even more to learn that Independent People is written by Halldor. It takes even more effort to learn that Bjartur of Summerhouses is Halldor's best known character.

That was what made me decide to drop the power at Icelandic and not Independent because I figured you must have put some marginal degree of effort into learning that.

Placing power marks is somewhat of an art, in my opinion, and because of the fact I can't judge whether knowing whether Crane's this work is = in difficulty to knowing this other fact about Midnight's Children, you get some inconsistencies, not to mention other factors, like The Great Gatsby. The Great Gatsby tossup dropped power when I was still citing lines directly from the text, and I tried pretty hard to write it so that there would be an infrequent amount of buzzer races. (In my room, Douglas Graebner clearly buzzed before anyone else.) Therefore, you would need a deeper amount of knowledge for that tossup, then let's say, Stephen Crane to power.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by The Laughing Man »

Again this tournament was really fantastic. Basically all of it was really cool, but specifically, I enjoyed really good tossups on the books I've like Billiards at Half Past Nine, The Unbearable Lightness of Being, The Namesake, Chronicle of a Death Foretold, Farewell to Arms, all of which had really interesting clues and none of which I got particularly quickly (showing that they were definitely capable of differentiating between two people that have read them.) I thought that the Great Gatsby tossup was really cool too. Apart from tossups on my pet subjects, I thought that almost all of the author tossups both had really interesting clues (I want to read so much new stuff now!) and were very pyramidal. The works on books I haven't read were also interesting and despite having very difficult clues at the beginning, definitely differentiated between those who hadn't read them too. In the finals I really liked the MacLeish tossup, the Cortazar tossup and the 5 seconds I got to hear of the Soseki tossup. The Abe tossup was cool... everything was cool.
Honestly, I feel kind of bad criticizing anything from such a fantastic tournament, but I suppose that's really the only kind of comment that is useful. The fact that there were only about 7 tossups that I thought weren't excellent, coupled with my ability to complain, really indicates the high quality of this set. I guess I'll just more or less list the tossups I liked least and say why

Virginia Woolf-- Voyage Out was way too early

Nigeria-- Sozaboy was way too early and really what other African country could it be? Kenya with a giveaway of Ngugi? It obviously didn't sound like South Africa or Egypt, so there aren't many other options. I would have much preferred a tossup on Ngugi or Tutuola or another famous African author that you didn't tossup.

Do not go gentle into that good night-- really not a good choice of a tossup for a tournament this difficult. Famous lines were dropped really quickly (you chose its least famous lines in the lead in, but all of its lines are famous.) Obviously, you could see how quickly the difficulty dropped resulting in that short power.

To Althea From Prison-- I thought it dropped famous lines in the lead in, but I may just have deep knowledge.

The Chambered Nautilus- I couldn't remember the name of this, but this also seemed to be recognizable fairly quickly compared to other tossups.

So I think my opinion is just generally to be careful with tossups on short poems; don't toss up anything too famous at a tournament of this difficulty.

The Prophet-- seemed fairly transparent, although I wasn't brave enough to buzz until almost the end.

Absalom, Absalom-- Not bad at all, per se, but when compared to questions about other high school tossup canon works (e.g. the Great Gatsby) and even less famous ones (She Stoops to Conquer) it gave a major plot point pretty early (i.e. in the leadin)

Emerson-- A real buzzer race on the American Scholar. Probably would have been more pyramidal had it put some of its description of self reliance (description which seemed to be fairly deep knowledge) before giving that title.

Hope my constructive criticism is helpful, but honestly there wasn't all that much to improve.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Nuclear Densometer Test »

Ukonvasara wrote:
Southside_amit wrote:Still waiting for that Slavoj Zizek tossup.....
Chicago Open 2008, Editors 3 wrote:This writer examines drafts of “The Ages of the World” by Schelling in his The Indivisible Remainder. In one work, he argues that political subjects rely upon others to know the meaning of “master signifiers,” while in another he analyzes the designs of European toilets. He discusses his notion of enjoyment as a political factor in For They Know Not What They Do, attacks critics of Cartesian subjectivity in The Ticklish Subject, and writes on Gilles Deleuze and consequences in Organs Without Bodies. In other works, he analyzes the evolution of detective fiction and David Lynch’s Lost Highway, but he may be best known for works like The Sublime Object of Ideology in which he reformulates the notion of ideology, and for composing several books on Jacques Lacan. FTP, name this modern philosopher born in Slovenia.
ANSWER: Slavoj Zizek


hmm. Well i guess i'll have to change my sig then. Thank you for that.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auroni »

The Laughing Man wrote: Nigeria-- Sozaboy was way too early and really what other African country could it be? Kenya with a giveaway of Ngugi? It obviously didn't sound like South Africa or Egypt, so there aren't many other options. I would have much preferred a tossup on Ngugi or Tutuola or another famous African author that you didn't tossup.
I agree with this to some extent; for consistency, this tossup shouldn't have had Saro-Wiwa's best known work so early. However, there had to be some title dropping as seven lines of plot from nigerian works would be really crazy, even from this tournament. A minor quibble that I had with that particular tossup is the mention of Egungun really early, as it plays a major role in the plot of Death and the King's Horsemen (although really, if anyone got it there, they deserve the points for some solid knowledge about that particular work).
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sir Thopas »

JelloBiafra wrote:A minor quibble that I had with that particular tossup is the mention of Egungun really early, as it plays a major role in the plot of Death and the King's Horsemen (although really, if anyone got it there, they deserve the points for some solid knowledge about that particular work).
On the contrary, Egungun comes up all the time in Yoruban myth, so I'd avoid dropping it there for fraudability purposes.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by DumbJaques »

On the contrary, Egungun comes up all the time in Yoruban myth, so I'd avoid dropping it there for fraudability purposes.
There is probably not an epidemic of fraudulent buzzes arising from detailed Yoruban myth knowledge currently plaguing the high school quizbowl circuit.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

DumbJaques wrote:
On the contrary, Egungun comes up all the time in Yoruban myth, so I'd avoid dropping it there for fraudability purposes.
There is probably not an epidemic of fraudulent buzzes arising from detailed Yoruban myth knowledge currently plaguing the high school quizbowl circuit.
Yeah, I was considering emphasizing the distinction between "comes up all the time in high school quizbowl" like "Le Chatelier's principle," and "comes up all the time in Yoruban myth," like Oxossi. I'm more concerned with the way that Egungun just sounds generically Nigerian (at that point, it's either a really hard country you might not get at all, or it's Nigeria, so you buzz) than people tracing a path through a belief system that's not top ten most covered on the college circuit.

EDIT: I would like to note that Wikipedia currently observes that Oxossi is "the true GPS" and that he's "master of all air attacks." I'm not sure if i'm more or less confident in trying to beat Pokemon with a lvl 2 Pidgey now.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

OXOSSI used DRILL PECK! It's super effective!
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Sir Thopas »

DumbJaques wrote:
On the contrary, Egungun comes up all the time in Yoruban myth, so I'd avoid dropping it there for fraudability purposes.
There is probably not an epidemic of fraudulent buzzes arising from detailed Yoruban myth knowledge currently plaguing the high school quizbowl circuit.
Hey, that fraud led to my epic "The Lion and the Horseman" neg while playtesting.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Nuclear Densometer Test »

Hmm. I thought this was a very good set. I especially liked the Bulgakov and McCullers tossups. The giveaway line on the latter was quite funny. The Great Gatsby tossup had some very good and unique clues. One question that i didn't like was the "Illustrations of Dante's Inferno" tossup. It might have been just me but i found the beginning confusing and didn't understand what it was asking for until the end. But overall it was an excellent set and i enjoyed reading it.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by jdd2007 »

I'd love a copy.

jdd2007atgmaildottcom
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by AKKOLADE »

As Ike said:
Ok, I assumed everyone would just email me by looking back at the original post, but from now on, just go ahead and pop an email to Sephiroth0kouko@ gmail.com
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Ike »

For those of you who are awaiting an email of my set (last few days,) you'll have to wait, because I'm putting the questions through a strainer and cutting out typos, and making some edits that I see fit.
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Re: Mahfouz Memorial Lit Singles Discussion (MN DO NOT READ)

Post by Cheynem »

We played this in the car on the way back and from FICHTE. It seemed like a lot of fun, with a good mix of questions. Someday I wish to beat good literature to players to a legitimate literature tossup (i.e. not Sir Arthur Conan Doyle) or a tossup I did not fraud knowledge on using a movie (i.e., me getting Styron based on knowledge of the movie Sophie's Choice). Just to clarify, both of those tossups were fine, I'm just waiting for that rainbow.
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