Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

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Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

The 21st Annual BISB will be held on SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 22, at Brookwood High School in the Northeast suburbs of Atlanta, GA. All high school academic teams are welcome to field a team or teams in this coming year's BISB.

All tossups questions are pyramidal (for the 20th straight year!) and are exclusively academic.

Recent BISB's have featured 94-168 teams competing in what may well be the largest single high school quiz bowl hosted by one high school.

Contact J.R. Barry, BISB Director, at [email protected].
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl

Post by Mr Foster »

3 questions

1. How much is entry fee, and discount if buzzers are brought?

2. How many teams attended last year?

3. How is the tourney structured?

NMB might come and hopes to win GO CHIEFS............
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl

Post by jrbarry »

We use a 4-quarterformat for each match

1st Q----10 tossups

2nd Q---5 T's and 5, 2-part Bonuses

3rd Q--4 Give-and-Takes with each team getting two to do (they arer 4-question sets with a 5 pointer, a 10-pointers, a 15-pointer, and a 20-pointer on an announced topic.

4th Q---8 tossups worth 20-points each (theroretically harder Q's than 1st Q T's)

We play 5 preliminary matches with al most all (up to 128 teams) being seeded into the single-elimination playoff.

2004---132 teams
2005---126 teams
2006---140 teams
2007---94 teams

I determine who each team plays in the prelims. I divide teams into 6-team pools in whicxh we play a round robin (if we have a total diVisble by 6) OR simpoly assign a teram 5 others ot play attempting to spread out a team's opponents geographically and strength-wise AS FAR AS I CAN KNOW THAT.

In the past, we have charged $60 per team with no discounts. After 20 straight years of charging that price, we are contemplating a change in fee structure. We'll decide that in August.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

Mr. Barry-For the 4th quarter, will all rounds have 8 questions? Last year the prelims only had 4, and the playoffs had 8.

To NMB, I would definitely recommend this tournament. First of all, the field it draws is without comparison. This allows a team to play others from across the Southeast, and to face teams that are of different skill levels. My team this year got to face Dorman, which was a great experience, and we faced Dunbar, who were very impressive, in the playoffs. Also, the format is unique and very enjoyable.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl

Post by ClemsonQB »

Mr. Barry/management, shouldn't this thread be in reg season tourny announcements?
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by ClemsonQB »

Mr. Barry, do you have a field update, or any update for that matter?
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

We have modified our match formt to a shortened version of PACE Nationals matches. All questions are pyramidal in form and academic in nature.

Part One: 5 tossups and 5, 2-part bonuses paired by broad category
Part Two: 5 tossups with a choice of 5 category bonus questions which are jst one question
Part Three: 5 tossups with 5, 3-part bonuses paired at random.

Prelims will be 5 rounds with no byes UNLESS we have a no-show and no fill-un team.
Lunch Break
Single Elimination playoff with EVERY team participating up to 96 teams

84 teams from 7 states registered as of November 3. I am thinking it will be 96-100 teams this year.

I will take new teams up until Tuesday, November 18.
Contact J.R. Barry at [email protected]

I might get one of my players who has an account here to give a team update.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by ... and the chaos of Mexican modernity »

Mr. Barry can you please give a field update thanks.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by hookemhorns10 »

Field Update as of 11/11/08:

Alpharetta - 2
Apollo - 1
Berkmar - 2
Bleckley County - 1
Blessed Trinity - 1
Brookstone - 1
Campbell - 1
Cedar Shoals - 3
Centennial - 1
Central Gwinnett - 2
Central-Macon - 1
Chattahoochee - 4
Cherokee = 2
Daviess - 1
Dorman - 4
Duluth - 1
Dunbar - 1
Dunwoody - 1
East Paulding - 1
Etowah - 2
Ezell-Harding - 3
Flowery Branch - 1
Grayson - 2
Greater Atlanta Christian School - 1
Hebron Christian Academy - 2
Hoover - 1
James Island - 1
Jonesboro - 1
Killian Hill Christian School - 1
Lakeside - 3
Lamp - 2
Meadowcreek - 1
MLK Magnet - 1
Norcross - 2
Ola - 3
Owensboro - 1
Paideia - 1
Parkview - 1
Pikeville - 2
Roswell - 2
Saint May's = 2
South Forsyth - 5
South Gwinnett - 1
Southside Christian School - 1
Southside - 4
Spartanburg - 1
Stockbridge High - 1
Walton - 4
Westminster - 2
Wheeler - 1
Woodward Academy - 1
Wren - 1
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

96 teams will compete tomorrow at Brookwood. Check-in for all teams is 7:30am through 8:15am.

5 prelim matches, then lunch, then a 96-team, single-elimination playoff.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Wow... is this the largest non-national yearly tournament? Ninety-six teams is just an unbelievable number. Good luck to all teams and let's hope for a well-run competition!
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AdamL »

Not speaking on behalf of Mr. Barry, but he did say:
jrbarry wrote: Recent BISB's have featured 94-168 teams competing in what may well be the largest single high school quiz bowl hosted by one high school.
The 168 team tourney was several years back, IIRC, and 96 teams is actually one of the lowest numbers I've seen in BISB's history. For what it's worth, the years I went it was very well run, considering the gigantic number of teams, and hopefully this year's no different.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Joshua Rutsky »

Our experience this year, while shorter than we hoped, was excellent. This is a great example of how to run an orderly tourney. Thanks, Brookwood.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

James Island defeated Dunbar 305-150 to win the 21st Annual BISB today. (James Island-SC defeated MLK-TN and Dunbar-KY beat Dorman-A-SC in the semifinals.) Southside-SC, Chattahoochee-GA, Pikeville-KY, and Dorman-B were quarterfinalists. Congrats to all 96 teams who participated.

Our new format (a shortened version of the PACE Nationals format) seemd to be well-received by all the teams I heard comments from.

A special "thanks" to the 180+ volunteers who pulled this event off.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by mknupp »

My team and I thoroughly enjoyed today's tournament. The questions were excellent, and it was run on time. Thanks to Mr. Barry and his staff.

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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

I would like to join the group thanking Mr. Barry for running such a great tournament. I was again impressed by the organization that allowed them to keep such a large tournament moving forward at an appropriate pace. I also would like to commend Mr. Barry for his choice of question providers. The HSAPQ set was well-written (albeit with a few problems), and it was far superior to the NAQT sets we've played this year, both in distribution (not having trash and comp. math) and the length and amount of clues in the questions.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

Thanks for the words of encouragement, guys.

Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Joshua Rutsky »

Really? HSAPQ gave me the impression that they didn't permit any in-house editing or alterations to their provided questions, and that they would under no circumstances add math computation to their packets. I wonder if this signals a little more flexibility on their part now that they are getting their feet under them as a business. I really like their questions, although I hear that you guys got them almost as late as we did, and with no pronunciation key for the names/places. Those were really my only two quibbles with the company, which I think is doing a real service to the quizbowl community.

When final stats become available, please let us know where they are posted. I would also love a copy of the question set if you make that available as well--I got rounds 1-5, but I'd enjoy having the playoff rounds to practice the rounds we didn't hear.

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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Sir Thopas »

jrbarry wrote:Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.
Out of curiosity, what sort of edits did you make? Having played an HSAPQ set before, I am of the opinion that it's eminently suitable for high school QB as is.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AlphaQuizBowler »

jrbarry wrote: Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.
In that case, Mr. Barry, I thank your team for the editing as well, because as I said before, the set ended up excellent. And regardless of your views on computation, I think we can both agree that the absence of trash made the set better than NAQT.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

Alpha: We NEVER have trash in our tournaments no matter who the questionwriters are.

Josh: we made edits with great difficulty given how the questions were sent to us. But, the questions we received had so many problems, we simply could not have read them without alot of editing for wording problems primarily. We had 48 readers and our questions must be in as perfect of shape as a set can reasonably be expected to be for our tournament to run smoothly.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Sonic the Hedgehog and the Fox »

Well then Mr. Barry, the editors did a dynamite job on those questions. Because if they were as bad as you say they were, they must have done one bang-up job on them, because I only ran into a few problems of not being to understand the aim of the question until it was very late in the question or too late because someone had figured it out faster than I.

Alas, this was my last BISB as a player, and even though it caused so many problems for you and your team, I was very impressed with it. Fantastically so.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Auroni »

So yeah, not only did you violate the conditions HSAPQ set by editing tossups, you also added computational math despite the myriad of reasons that everyone has routinely provided against it.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AdamL »

Hey, where did he say he added in computational math?

(He didn't.)
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by dtaylor4 »

AdamL wrote:Hey, where did he say he added in computational math?

(He didn't.)
jrbarry wrote:Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.

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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by grashid »

dtaylor4 wrote:
AdamL wrote:Hey, where did he say he added in computational math?

(He didn't.)
jrbarry wrote:Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.
I am confused. Mr. Barry didn't say he added math. He just said he edited the questions.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

Yeah, he never explicitly said he added computation math, I'll give him that. However, he did explicitly say he did noted-thing-you-can't-do "editing HSAPQ's questions," and I for one would love to hear the details of that.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AdamL »

So, I'm not trying to argue too much for either side here - I understand that HSAPQ doesn't want their questions edited for various reasons -, but as a moderator at this tournament I have to say the set was full of typographical and grammar errors (such as missing words/phrases sometimes) that I had to correct on the fly, and probably some that I missed. The corrections sheets provided by HSAPQ for the first few rounds (at least) missed a lot of stuff, and one time it even had an incorrect correction (Note: if someone from HSAPQ wants to ask me what this correction was, email me at liema05 at gmail)

As far as I know, which is what I could see from being in tourney HQ between rounds, the majority of the edits Mr. Barry is referring to consisted of correcting things like these. I don't believe he was completely re-writing questions or anything like that.

Also, one particular example of their edits was that a certain bonus had "Name this [such-and-such] that has such cool things as [academic information]" and they changed it to say something more generic like "notable for [academic information]". It may not seem like such a big deal, but I feel like for high school tourneys like these, you probably should be maintaining a more professional tone than to say "this thing has cool stuff lol".

Likewise, I didn't think certain of the bonuses were such a great idea - I can't get specific, because the sets will be used elsewhere (correct?), but I felt like saying "did you reaaallly need to ask about/say that in a question?" and that *maybe* it was just a question writer fooling around or something. Note, the content of these particular questions were not changed by Brookwood, I just felt like I had to mention them in relation to the "maintaining a professional tone" thing.

To comment on the set, for the most part I really enjoyed it and thought they did a great job of having accessible answers with still-challenging clues at the beginning. Very occasionally there was a tossup that I felt had a misplaced/out-of-order clue, but that could've just been me. Also, there was one common-link tossup that I really didn't like because I think it had basically described only 2 separate things that involved the tossup answer, which I don't feel is really enough to justify a common-link tossup... I could be wrong, but I know a solid line or two of the tossup was describing just one certain thing, and then another line or two about another. But yeah, overall the questions were good, content-wise.
dtaylor4 wrote:
AdamL wrote:Hey, where did he say he added in computational math?

(He didn't.)
jrbarry wrote:Alpha: We had to edit those question sets more than any question sets I have ever worked with in our 41 tournaments. And we were supposed to have more computation questions than what we had. (I am a firm believer in having computation questions in high school quiz bowl!) I had four people sequestered in a computer lab doing nothing but editing from 9am until 4pm.
Perhaps I should've been more explicit with this. It was not a question, but more of a sarcastic jab. So to clarify: He did NOT add in computational math.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

Good explanations, Adam

Those of you who are commenting on our editing of the BISB questions have no clue about OUR agreement with HSAPQ. Our agreement was for computational math to be included and there were computational math questions in the Category Quiz Bonuses. We just wanted a few more as tossups and we did not get that. We did not add any computational math questions to the set ALTHOUGH we certainly could have if we had had time to do that. The BISB is, after all, our tournament and we have standards which were not determined by the good and knowledgable folks at HSAPQ or by anyone on this board.

On a general note, there is not consensus even on this board about EVERY aspect of what good quiz bowl is. And we are only a small sliver of the national quiz bowl "communities."
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by krazydragon »

The corrections sheets provided by HSAPQ for the first few rounds (at least) missed a lot of stuff, and one time it even had an incorrect correction (Note: if someone from HSAPQ wants to ask me what this correction was, email me at liema05 at gmail)
Actually, the correction sheets were provided by Brookwood. We tried to make some last minute corrections to the questions to give to the readers because we weren't able to edit the questions before printing. So, with the given time, I don't doubt that we missed some stuff that needed to be corrected and made some mistakes in our corrections.

Regarding the content of the questions, I felt that the research for each tossup was excellently done. HSAPQ lived up to their name as every tossup was academic and pyramidal. However, the grammar was atrocious. It seemed as if the writers placed the clues down first, then haphazardly slapped on transitions, prepositions, etc. to string the clues together (and thus, several tossups were very convoluted). I don't know whether this lack of grammar was a result of procrastination (we received the questions very late) but, clearly, some proofreading needed to be done.

On a different note, just to clarify, we did not add math calculation to the sets, but when we sent in our request to HSAPQ, we did ask for math calculation tossups (instead, there was only one math calculation question in the category bonuses).
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by AdamL »

Oh, okay. I didn't know those correction sheets were made by Brookwood (for some reason I remembered seeing "HSAPQ" on there somewhere, but I guess not)
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Joshua Rutsky »

Mr. Barry-

I certainly didn't mean to raise a firestorm on this issue--I probably should have e-mailed you personally to ask about it. I personally have no objections to the format, content, or any aspect of your tourney, which as I said earlier was excellent.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by jrbarry »

No problem, Josh. I am glad you guys could come over this year.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by Magister Ludi »

jrbarry wrote:No problem, Josh. I am glad you guys could come over this year.
Mr. Barry, did you have a chance to read the email I sent you yesterday? I would like to discuss some things with you off the board.
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by howlin »

Another thanks for a well run tournament. (And thanks for finding me a place to make hot tea for my cold.) I think you did a great job of editing the questions. In fact, I was surprised when I picked up my copy and saw that they were HSAPQ questions. I find their questions ungrammatical and unneccessarily long. They are a pain to read. I know that there seems to be some backlash against NAQT, but I like NAQT. I think they have a good mix. But I thought that Brookwood did a great job--as usual.

Oh,and I only heard the word titular 10 times. :lol:
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Re: Brookwood Invitational Scholars Bowl (11/22/08)

Post by ihavenoidea »

howlin wrote:Another thanks for a well run tournament. (And thanks for finding me a place to make hot tea for my cold.) I think you did a great job of editing the questions. In fact, I was surprised when I picked up my copy and saw that they were HSAPQ questions. I find their questions ungrammatical and unneccessarily long. They are a pain to read. I know that there seems to be some backlash against NAQT, but I like NAQT. I think they have a good mix. But I thought that Brookwood did a great job--as usual.

Oh,and I only heard the word titular 10 times. :lol:
Questions will sometimes appear ungrammatical in order to preserve the pyramidality. "Titular" is used so that questions can be extremely clear about what they want. One should never prioritize question aesthetics over content.
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