South Carolina 07-08

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South Carolina 07-08

Post by Byko »

Some of you might be wondering why I'm creating this. After all, we all know who the dominant teams in South Carolina will be: Dorman, James Island, Aiken.

Unfortunately, from hearing comments from Mac and from getting to talk to Eric at PACE, it sounds like these might pretty much be the only teams in South Carolina this year.

So my real question is this: what can we do about this? I know that with me being 500 miles away from the state that's more of a home to me than anyplace else I've lived, I can't do a whole lot (other than offer some questions for tournaments, perhaps), but that's not going to stop me from trying. Is there any way we can do any of the following:

1. Can we help to develop more tournaments in South Carolina? I know there are some newer teams springing up (e.g., Academic Magnet and Governor's School for Science and Math) that may not have the budget to travel out of state.
2. Can we help to build up more competitive teams?
3. Can we help to take some of the once-a-year teams that attend a tournament like Dorman's and make them into something that does a little bit more than that? Perhaps some sort of PR effort would be helpful here.

As a member of PACE, who is devoted to the growth of the high school game, and the president of Academic Initiative (who provides questions for various tournaments and runs some events wherever we happen to be living at the time), I am looking for input on what I (and others) can do to help keep one of the historically strongest quiz bowl regions from nearly falling off the map.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

What happened over the past few years down there?

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Hodges Lewis stopped coaching Irmo is one of my best guesses.
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Post by Byko »

1. Around January of 2005, Hodges Lewis (then the coach of Irmo's team) had a stroke. At least it hasn't really impacted him mentally, but needless to say, it forced him into retirement. When he went, Irmo's team disappeared shortly thereafter. They've reappeared with a coach who knows very little about quiz bowl, but they're definitely quite green.

2. Jason Ford coaches at Fort Mill. He's a good coach, but the fact that he's also the band director impacts the team because it means they really don't get going much until after the fall semester is over.

3. Several other teams have come and gone over time. But more than that, many tournaments have disappeared. Mauldin has stepped back some in recent years. Clinton used to have a national-caliber program in the early 1990s but has struggled to even have a team to go to a tournament (though they did run a tournament once when I was down there). Tournaments like Fort Mill or Aiken have had to be cancelled because of lack of interest among teams.

Put all of this together, and I'm certainly concerned for the health of quiz bowl as a whole in South Carolina. I'm not as concerned about the top teams: Dorman will travel as much as they need to in order to be competitive, and they'll definitely succeed at it. As long as Dorothy is at James Island, they will travel throughout the southeast and be very competitive. The same can be said of Mac and Aiken, which is especially nice to see this year after one or two down years just prior. After that, though, it's a massive drop-off from my perspective. I wish I were wrong, but I'm afraid that's just not the case.
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Post by jrbarry »

With the exception of Irmo, SC is as it has always been...limited in scope.

An occasional Riverside and Southside team from Greenville could compete with Dorman-Irmo-James Island as well as Aiken. But Riverside has lessened its involvement and Southside has fallen off gthe quiz bowl map.

Unfortunately, SC resembles so many other places. When one has a coach who works at it and leads his/her team effectively, quiz bowl flourishes. When that adult is absent, quiz bowl falls on its face.

What is truly amazing in the school climate of today is that a school like Dorman (SC) or Russell (KY) can change coaches and prosper. Congrats to them.

More typical are schools in our area like Irmo (SC), Tuscaloosa Central (AL), Auburn (AL), North Atlanta (GA), Woodward (GA), Southside (SC), Woodham (FL), Milton (GA), Westminster (GA), Riverdale (TN), who have lost coaches and dropped out of the quiz bowl world.

It is very disheartening.

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Post by saskwatch1991 »

I am probably going to be captain on the Eastside Highschool Academic team, in Taylors, SC, and I'm trying to start my team in the right direction to do better than we did last year, we've started ironing out our problems and are ready to begin competing, but our real problem is the lack of tournaments here, or at least well advertised ones, We went to Dorman last year as our first and failed terribly, we went to the one in Georgia and realized the SC teams can't even touch other states, and we went to our local tournament, we didn't do too hot their either, but that was because of other reasons, we really want to compete as much as possible, but except for maybe two or three others that we couldn't attend because of scheduling, that was it for tournaments, and as I've looked around to see if there are any season openers is SC, so we could try and start the year off with a bang, I find there aren't any, is there anything any of you really involved peope can do to counteract this?

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Post by Red-necked Phalarope »

saskwatch1991 wrote:I am probably going to be captain on the Eastside Highschool Academic team, in Taylors, SC, and I'm trying to start my team in the right direction to do better than we did last year, we've started ironing out our problems and are ready to begin competing, but our real problem is the lack of tournaments here, or at least well advertised ones, We went to Dorman last year as our first and failed terribly, we went to the one in Georgia and realized the SC teams can't even touch other states, and we went to our local tournament, we didn't do too hot their either, but that was because of other reasons, we really want to compete as much as possible, but except for maybe two or three others that we couldn't attend because of scheduling, that was it for tournaments, and as I've looked around to see if there are any season openers is SC, so we could try and start the year off with a bang, I find there aren't any, is there anything any of you really involved people can do to counteract this?
Robinson (in Concord) looks to be about 2 hours away from Taylors, but they tend to host several tournaments throughout the year.

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

saskwatch1991 wrote:we went to the one in Georgia and realized the SC teams can't even touch other states
What?
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Post by saskwatch1991 »

thanks, and the one in georgia... I don't remember, it was outside of atlanta somewhere, we were dragged through the mud

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

What I mean is that I can name at least 4 teams from South Carolina that made solid shows at nationals, 2 of which came home with shiny trophies for 8th and 4th/semifinalist respectively.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Post by DrakeRQB »

Casanova Frankenstein wrote: Robinson (in Concord) looks to be about 2 hours away from Taylors, but they tend to host several tournaments throughout the year.
You beat me to it. We got some S.C. teams last year - Aiken in the fall; Dorman and Ft. Mill in the spring. We'd love for you guys to come.
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Post by mhanna »

I'm crushed. Byko thinks that we are barely a top 100 team. What's the use? Woe is me and my team. Alas, but we did beat a few teams that he put in front of us.

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South Carolina now

Post by scquizbowl »

Since this thread was last updated, many things have happened around the state in quiz bowl.

Dorman has already won at least ten tournaments on the year, including Harvard, University of Georgia, Brookwood, and several others.

James Island has won two, the University of South Carolina and Chattahoochee.

County play in Charleston County is starting soon, and James Island, Academic Magnet, and Wando the strong teams. Magnet is a growing team, as they actually beat James Island last year for that championship, the first time in many years.
:neutral:

Aiken has also been to several tournaments, and has earned several honors, including seconds at USC and North Greenville. Also watch out for Southside, as they won that tournament.

There are many other teams that are not known nationally this year, but are good regionally in state and at Atlanta area tournaments. Irmo still has a team, young but growing, and they have gone to several tournaments.

Southside Christian also is a young team to watch for, and you always see D.W. Daniel, Spartanburg, Boiling Springs, Sumter, and others at these tournaments.

Fox Creek (from North Augusta) also has a team, and I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

Anybody else here from this state talking about quizbowl?

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Not to take anything away from Dorman because they are really really good but they actually lost Harvard to Whitman.
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Re: South Carolina now

Post by MrTsunami »

scquizbowl wrote: Irmo still has a team, young but growing, and they have gone to several tournaments.

Anybody else here from this state talking about quizbowl?
I'm Irmo's new captain.

After Coach Lewis's stroke in 2005, the team died. I do not mean diminished , as the team literally ceased to exist. Everyone on the team quit and did not participate the next year due to what I think must have been loyalty to Coach Lewis. In 2006-2007, a team was formed with only a single member that was on the previous B team, the rest consisting of mostly freshmen and sophomores. We attended several competitions last year, notably Brookwood, Dorman, and NC State.
This year, after the graduation of our previous captain and the only remaining link to the old team, the captain's position was given to me, a sophomore. Our team consists of 3 sophomores and 3 juniors.
So far this year, we've attended competitions at Greenville, Brookwood, Robinson, and Dorman. We plan to attend Robinson's next competition.
We were eliminated in the quarterfinals at Dorman after defeating Aiken A in the round of 16.

It's extremely true that we're new, but we're really having to start from scratch. The only thing we have from Lewis is our extensive bank of questions.

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Post by saskwatch1991 »

Eastside has done particularly well this year, we got top sixteen at Dorman, we've still got miles to go and were losing several starters to graduation, but we've gone from losing all of our games to winning more than half in one season. I'm just surprised at how good some of the teams in the Greenville area have gotten since I started playing as a Freshmen at Eastside.

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South Carolina 2007-08

Post by scquizbowl »

In the first week of Charleston County play tonight at North Charleston High School, James Island won both games, as they beat Military Magnet (a new team in their first ever quiz bowl match) and Academic Magnet (who won County last year, and played in the NAQT state tournament) who is still a above-average team, even though they lost one of their seniors, Alex.

Wando, Stall, North Charleston, West Ashley, and one other school also competed, as they will go to the Cedar Shoals tournament tomorrow. We still use Patrick's Press questions, and we have at least three more weeks of regular season games, two per night.

James Island is now 50-4 on the season.

Do any other teams in this state have county play?

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Post by mhanna »

Aiken County. We use Patrick's Press questions with 20 questions, or 20-minute time limit and 2 two-minute 10-question lightening rounds.

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South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Locally in the Charleston area, the big QUEST competition at Trident Technical College is coming up March 8. The tournament involves almost every middle and high school in a three-county area, and goes by subject area.

I am in the sophomore Social Studies area, and you have to take a subject area test in all subjects before a timed game starts.

The questions are very fast, 1-2 sentences, and James Island is taking part, along with every other school in the area.

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Post by saskwatch1991 »

i've wanted to get in-county play going in greenville county for some time, our county only tournament is coming up soon, any suggestions on how to spread the idea around?

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Yes, in Charleston County, only eight of our thirteen high schools do the county quiz bowl. Every team plays two matches per night in the preliminaries, and some of the teams also have JV matches before them, as well. It is usually held at either Burke (a very nice inner-city school), or North Charleston. Sometimes, they go to West Ashley.

However, the matches are very long, twenty-five tossups and four bonuses for each question, and two one-minute lightning rounds, using repeat Patrick's Press.

Matches can take as long as forty-five minutes, and we are in the playoffs now, in fact, as James Island has to play Academic Magnet in a three-game series of sorts starting tonight. Until last year, they always held the finals of the quiz bowl at the County School Board chambers (one of the most familiar places here if you watch the news), but now, they hold it at Burke.

Whoever wins two out of three wins the title.

At your next tournament, perhaps, you could ask Mr. Huff at Dorman, or one of the other coaches that does this, and they will find a good format.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by saskwatch1991 »

ok, thank you

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by sabine01 »

scquizbowl wrote:Locally in the Charleston area, the big QUEST competition at Trident Technical College is coming up March 8. The tournament involves almost every middle and high school in a three-county area, and goes by subject area.

I am in the sophomore Social Studies area, and you have to take a subject area test in all subjects before a timed game starts.

The questions are very fast, 1-2 sentences, and James Island is taking part, along with every other school in the area.
Glad to know the competition's still around. It's been going on for a very long time...

If memory serves me correctly, those teams that moved on to the quick-recall round were the teams with the top three scores on the paper tests in Science, Social Studies and Mathematics. Those teams would then earn points toward an overall school/team score, depending on how they placed in the buzzer round. Those that placed in the top 3 in a few other individual competitions (e.g. public speaking, creative writing) also added onto the points total for the overall title.

Has this format changed since the time I was playing (between '91-'97)?

Alas... that was the only thing my alma mater (Summerville HS) ever really did aside from various math teams (and the 4H Energy Challenge) back then. According to a more recent alumnus, that hasn't changed.

Good luck to James Island and everyone competing at Trident.

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Yep, it's still the same. I have been there twice, and they hold it in their brand new cooking and communications building. It is too bad that teams practice all year just for this one day, because if you don't get in the top three, you don't know what place you got in, since they only post the leaders, and throw out the rest.

But, when the only tournaments in the state over the last few years that have been prevalent are Dorman (where every top team in the South, and even outside, goes), James Island (inactive last year, but we plan to do it this year), USC, Aiken (not every year), and the NAQT tournaments, it is hard for most teams from our state to even go outside of their own county, let alone take an overnight trip to Atlanta or Athens to play against GA teams.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

James Island won the Charleston County tournament at the School Board Chamber on Calhoun Street on Feburary 28 against Academic Magnet (by 35-50 question points), and then they traveled to MIT, and won, in a slightly reduced field.

The format they use in Charleston County is one of the weirdest out there, as they give 1 :roll: point per question, and every bonus counts the same. There were twenty-five questions, but it was weird because all of the current events that were used were from 2004.

Crescent, another SC team, did not do well at all, as they only scored sixty points in the entire tournament, but they were in that Brookwood, Chattahoochee, and Norcross division.

Dorman, of course, won the Tournament of the Arch, but James Island is going to the DACQ weekend next weekend, but this weekend we have Quest. Also, there is that Spartanburg tournament this weekend. Any updates for that?
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Byko »

scquizbowl wrote:Also, there is that Spartanburg tournament this weekend. Any updates for that?
I'd be surprised if the field for that one is very strong. I know they'll be without any powers from Georgia since the GATA state tournament is this weekend. I know they're using an NAQT set (I had offered them the PACE set, but that would have really cut the field down, as that would have taken out a few South Carolina teams and several from North Carolina as well), but I don't know how many teams will have heard it. Regardless, as this is the first I've heard of Spartanburg running a tournament at least since I was in high school, I hope this goes well for them--they look like a program that's really trying to move up.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by saskwatch1991 »

Eastside's gonna be there, I heard Dorman was going to give them a hand running it.

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Gunnells »

Good luck to James Island and Dorman at DACQ this weekend.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Well, this weekend, we have NAQT states at Dorman, as you know. Why is Aiken not able to come to this tournament?

We (James Island) were close to pulling out, but our top player moved his SAT test to another day.

We are probably going to NAQT nationals, but if not, we are going to NAC nationals in Orlando, most likely.

Are there any other teams from this state going besides Dorman to nationals?
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by quizbowl »

Eric Huff wrote:Congratulations to Southside High School of Greenville for winning the 2008 NAQT HS State Championship. They were champions of the A/2A division and defeated James Island High School of Charleston (champions of the 3A/4A division). Semifinalists were Irmo High School (runners-up in the 3A/4A division) and Governor's School for Science and Math (runners-up in the A/2A division). Complete results can be found here:

http://www.taftqb.com/t/scstates08/teams/standings

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Very interesting results. Is this the same Southside that won Brookwood JV?

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by jrbarry »

Byko:

Yes. Southside HS in Grennville, SC, an IB program within an regular high school.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Yes, Mr. Barry, James Island also has an IB program within its own high school, as well. Southside looks to be a force in this state for the next couple of years, with four sophomores leading their team. They also have several others who came who were younger, meaning that they could be forming a team that will challenge Dorman, Aiken, us (James Island), and perhaps the teams in Georgia for regional honors.

We have our captain graduating, but the problem is that there are few people that are coming up to take his place. I have seen first-hand, even in my time I have played with our team (three seasons) the transformation of this state's quizbowl from being three powers, Dorman, James Island, and Aiken, to several others competing around the state to challenge us. Don't forget about the other Southside, Southside Christian, and the Governor's School.

This will be a competitive state, for years to come, with the quality of teams only beaten by the metro Atlanta teams for some of the best in the Southeast.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

As you probably have heard with the Schallenberger case, Chesterfield County did have quiz bowl competition, but very small, with only six matches.

North Myrtle Beach played us, and James Island is preparing to go to NAC Nationals at Marymount University, instead of NAQT, because our coach thinks we will do better there.

If only they had something like the Winthrop Challenge now, which was ETV's show in the 1980s, then quiz bowl would be much more popular in this state.

Are any other teams going to the NAC tournament?
Joe
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Auks Ran Ova »

scquizbowl wrote:James Island is preparing to go to NAC Nationals at Marymount University, instead of NAQT, because our coach thinks we will do better there.
Don't do that!
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

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Ukonvasara wrote:
scquizbowl wrote:James Island is preparing to go to NAC Nationals at Marymount University, instead of NAQT, because our coach thinks we will do better there.
Don't do that!
The truth is, there is just as good a chance that you would do worse. You guys did reasonably well at the HSNCT last year, and :chip: 's nationals are a crapshoot in their enitrety--- the best team is not likely to win. You couldn't do much worse by just having the teams press buttons that produce a random score and using that to determine matches. You really should go to the HSNCT.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

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scquizbowl wrote: North Myrtle Beach played us, and James Island is preparing to go to NAC Nationals at Marymount University, instead of NAQT, because our coach thinks we will do better there.
You guys appeared to have quite a respectable showing at DACQ and are definitely a good team at real quizbowl. I don't understand why your coach would want to throw that away to play the worst tournament of the year. I know James Island has a tradition of excellence at NAC and ASCN (for whatever that's worth) but this kind of smells of hardware desperation/living in the past on your coach's part and I really hope you and your teammates do whatever you can to steer the team back toward exclusively playing legitimate tournaments.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Yes, I know that NAQT is a better tournament, and we play just as good, perhaps better at that compared to NAC. The problem is that our coach has been used to these questions, and she has taken teams there every year, way back to 1990, when it was the only national around, along with the old ASCN.

Also, we had our worst game of the year in the finals of our state championship, as we played Southside from Greenville. They got the first five questions during that game with Dorman-like speed, in the first five words, and we were trying to come back, and all of us negged several times during the game, on questions we should have known. If we had won that game, we would have gone to NAQT instead of :chip: .

We beat every other team we played by 175 points or more, including two shutouts of Goose Creek and Chapman, and had averaged 165 more PPG than any other team, but it doesn't matter to our coach, as all she cares about is getting a trophy in the case and an extra paycheck. Also, she believed that our studying habits were bad, and that is why we are going to Washington instead of Chicago.

She was also mad about how we played against Dorman at DACQ, thinking that we would play like that against every good team at NAQT.

All of this, for a team who won MIT, Chattahoochee, USC, and two or three other tournaments, and most people think we are one of the best teams in the country.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by ClemsonQB »

You shouldn't not attend the better tournament just because of two games. Thats silly
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by The Atom Strikes! »

Also, your coach shouldn't be upset about your team's performance against Dorman. Almost everyone does badly against them--teams like Eden Prairie, Stuyvesant or our team lose by pretty large margins. Only TJ and Whitman have beaten them at all this year.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by DumbJaques »

an extra paycheck
Explain?
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

Yes, our coach gets a lot of extra money in incentives, as they get them for county and state, too.

Now, let's get away from this topic. What teams are going to the season-ender at Dorman? We probably will not be able to go, because our coach is not taking us to NAQT, and we may have played the questions before.

Is anybody beside Southside and Dorman going to NAQT?

I believe the Greenville County champion may get an invitation. Several teams got invitations to :chip:'s tournament, including us. Are there any others?
Joe
James Island '10

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

You can always check the sets used at tournaments in the past year and that are upcoming on NAQT to actually find out if you've heard the questions instead of just speculating.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Eric Huff »

This is what we have signed up so far. I have James Island registered, so if you're not going to be able to make it, let me know. We are using 71A, FYI

Thanks!
Eric Huff
Dorman High School

JV
Boiling Springs x 2
Chapman
Chattahoochee
Shelby (NC)
West Oak

Middle School

Mauldin Middle × 3
D.R. Hill

Varsity

Boiling Springs x 2
Chapman
Chattahoochee (GA)
Gaffney
Hannahan
James Island
North Myrtle Beach
Onslow County (NC)
Shelby (NC)
Eric Huff

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by mhanna »

James Island knows only too well why they are not going to NAQT. With the attitude displayed by some of the players at tournaments and at school, they are lucky to be going anyplace. The team has the ability to be one of the top five teams in the nation, but has difficulty playing consistently at a high level in back to back matches against tough opponents. Dorothy Meek is one who has to be shown that the team really wants to contend and be a champion. Otherwise, get over it and enjoy the trip with Chip. Now you know why Aiken is not going to any tournaments. We have the ability to play but not the desire to do what it takes to contend nationally. That takes sacrifice and hard work. JI, you know what you have to do. Do what it takes.

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

My goodness.
Charlie Dees, North Kansas City HS '08
"I won't say more because I know some of you parse everything I say." - Jeremy Gibbs

"At one TJ tournament the neg prize was the Hampshire College ultimate frisbee team (nude) calender featuring one Evan Silberman. In retrospect that could have been a disaster." - Harry White

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by jrbarry »

I am not sure what scquizbowl means, but Ms. Meek, the James Island HS coach does not get money for herself when her team wins stuff. I am not sure that is what was meant in the post, but I am sure the implication that Ms Meek benefits financially from her team's success is not accurate. I do know she has spent alot of her own money and time to benefit her players. I just do not want any possible slap at Ms Meek to go unresponded to by someone who has known her as a quiz bowl coach since 1988.
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by ieppler »

Ian Eppler from Brown University

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

I am sorry if I hurt any feelings, but our coach is and she is one of the best coaches in the country, still, and she helps motivate us. I have played on the team for several years, and she has helped us learn a lot from what I started as, only knowing sports, compared to now, when I answered eight questions in one game against Goose Creek at NAQT state.

We have had a very successful year, and since we are a charter school, they have some new ideas for our school. I apologize for what I said, and now, we can talk quiz bowl.

There are probably going to be sixty teams at :chip: Washington at least, and it is still sort of a reputable tournament.

Also, I learned a lot from Mr. Barry in classes at camp, and the Academic Team community around the Southeast is one of the best in the country, with dozens of coaches, including ours, who have helped spread the word throughout the country, like the coaches at Norcross, Dorman, Walton, Mr. Lewis at Irmo, and almost every other team in the South.

Without them, quizbowl would be unorganized, and instead of the great systems we have now, 20 TU/B, we would be like what you see in other states, with bad questions.
Joe
James Island '10

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Matt Weiner
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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by Matt Weiner »

scquizbowl wrote:There are probably going to be sixty teams at :chip: Washington at least, and it is still sort of a reputable tournament.
No, not really.
Also, I learned a lot from Mr. Barry in classes at camp, and the Academic Team community around the Southeast is one of the best in the country, with dozens of coaches, including ours, who have helped spread the word throughout the country, like the coaches at Norcross, Dorman, Walton, Mr. Lewis at Irmo, and almost every other team in the South.
Ok, you learned a lot. Now throw out all that knowledge and get ready to identify "a chest of drawers" from a picture of it (actual NAC question).
Matt Weiner
Founder of hsquizbowl.org

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Re: South Carolina 07-08

Post by scquizbowl »

No, :chip:'s questions are not the best, as you have to frequently think of annoying stuff, and even though they are hated on this board, there are still many people that think that this is the most professional tournament of all four, when NAQT has 160-176 teams all packed into three or four elevators, and still manages to put out the best product.

Also, at the last Chip tournament I went to, in 2006, he still had the same dings that they had since the 1994 and 1995 tournaments that I watched on video, with the toot of his horn. We had a great year, beating the Ohio State Champions, Garfield Heights, and 2007 Vermont Scholar's Bowl champion Champlain Valley.

In the last game we played at that tournament, we played Charleston, which wore funny hats and costumes, which I'm not sure he would have allowed a few years ago.
Joe
James Island '10

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