Next Year

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BuzzerZen
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Post by BuzzerZen »

Hey hey, my will is entirely rational. The wacky lineups are not so much an indication of instability on my part as the combined effect of A team members often having other things to do and the presence of at least 5 players good enough to be on the A team.
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Post by nurgles_herald »

segregold wrote:I'd say for top teams the list looks something like TJ (which hopefully will be better organized so that A Team is no longer run by seniority/Evan's irrational will), Dorman (which is returning all of its top scorers from Nationals) and Whitman (which is returning its full lineup). I hesitate to advance Whitman so high because historically they have not been incredibly strong on NAQT-type questions, but that Indian guy they have now is very good, and you can't argue with a full returned lineup. There was also a team that we (RM A) played in the prelims at Nationals, from the Chicago area, that was mad good. I don't know who they're returning or if they really compete besides Nationals, though.

I know that my own team is returning its two top players, but I think it'll take a few months to smooth the A Team out before we return to national levels of competitiveness.

Does anyone know what State College looks like next year? They were mucho fuerte at Nationals.
We're either going to be really awesome next year or very mediocre. We have three very good, very dedicated players, and two equally good but not equally dedicated players capable of making State College in to a great power once more. In my opinion, this summer will be the determining factor of State College's strength- I'm trying to get two of the aforementioned players to take this summer very seriously and use it for practice. We'll definitely still be a force to be reckoned with, but I can't tell you for sure if we'll be vying for the #1 slot or if we'll be one of those teams on a plateau just below the top teams, fighting for 5th-10th. It really depends on how our players prioritize and how they improve, both this summer and next year.
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Post by Gunnells »

James Island should be quite good for the next two years. They essentially carried a JV team to nationals.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

So let's make a general compendium of who the top teams could end up being next year.
My ideas -
front runners: Dorman, MLK, TJ, RM, Whitman. Wildcard 6th front runner - I want it to be NKC, and I think we showed in our better games at HSNCT that we were very competitive with some of the best (except the absolute best). I still wish we could have gone to PACE, though. But I'm biased.

Others to look out for:
Stuyvesant, Danville, East Lansing, Brindlee Mtn., Dunbar, Eden Prairie, others?
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Post by Stat Boy »

There was also a team that we (RM A) played in the prelims at Nationals, from the Chicago area, that was mad good. I don't know who they're returning or if they really compete besides Nationals, though.
That must be New Trier. They lose two of their players, including their top scorer from Nationals (I think).
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Post by mistermoravian »

Others to look out for:
Stuyvesant, Danville, East Lansing, Brindlee Mtn., Dunbar, Eden Prairie, others?
Um, Moravian? :grin:

Moravian should certainly be in the mix next year because we're losing only one senior. The two rising juniors and I have finally decided to *study* and practice regularly with NAQT or PACE questions, rather than the buzzer-beaters to which we had grown accustomed.

So...watch out!
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Stat Boy wrote:
There was also a team that we (RM A) played in the prelims at Nationals, from the Chicago area, that was mad good. I don't know who they're returning or if they really compete besides Nationals, though.
That must be New Trier. They lose two of their players, including their top scorer from Nationals (I think).
We lose our top two scorers (Carlo and I).
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:So let's make a general compendium of who the top teams could end up being next year.
My ideas -
front runners: Dorman, MLK, TJ, RM, Whitman. Wildcard 6th front runner - I want it to be NKC, and I think we showed in our better games at HSNCT that we were very competitive with some of the best (except the absolute best). I still wish we could have gone to PACE, though. But I'm biased.

Others to look out for:
Stuyvesant, Danville, East Lansing, Brindlee Mtn., Dunbar, Eden Prairie, others?
Not to rub salt in old wounds, but how about the team that knocked you out at Nationals and then went on to defeat Gonzaga in the next round?
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Post by quizbowllee »

SwissBoy wrote:
charlieDfromNKC wrote:So let's make a general compendium of who the top teams could end up being next year.
My ideas -
front runners: Dorman, MLK, TJ, RM, Whitman. Wildcard 6th front runner - I want it to be NKC, and I think we showed in our better games at HSNCT that we were very competitive with some of the best (except the absolute best). I still wish we could have gone to PACE, though. But I'm biased.

Others to look out for:
Stuyvesant, Danville, East Lansing, Brindlee Mtn., Dunbar, Eden Prairie, others?
Not to rub salt in old wounds, but how about the team that knocked you out at Nationals and then went on to defeat Gonzaga in the next round?
OH!!!! BURN!!!!

I'm assuming that was Wilmington Charter, right?
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Wilmington, Delaware
So that's the assumption. And hence my
others?
option. If you didn't notice, I posted that at like 4 in the morning, and my brain doesn't go through everything properly then. I was thinking "Walter Johnson, Wilmington Charter, Moravian, Maggie Walker, State College, and Hunter need to be here" but then when I actually typed it all of that kind of bled out.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:
Wilmington, Delaware
So that's the assumption. And hence my
others?
option. If you didn't notice, I posted that at like 4 in the morning, and my brain doesn't go through everything properly then. I was thinking "Walter Johnson, Wilmington Charter, Moravian, Maggie Walker, State College, and Hunter need to be here" but then when I actually typed it all of that kind of bled out.
I understand. I didn't mean to be terribly nastily spirited here. Although we did beat you, I know that the match could have gone differently without the "politburo" and "Guitar Hero" questions, and I look forward to facing you again at next year's Nationals.
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Post by gonzagaeagleahy »

charlieDfromNKC wrote: Others to look out for:
Stuyvesant, Danville, East Lansing, Brindlee Mtn., Dunbar, Eden Prairie, others?
Oh Mr. Dees...Gonzaga Gonzaga Gonzaga. Very underrated for next year, but everyone will be surprised, you'll see. I wasn't angry until I saw that you didn't even include us in your mental list of who should be there. I am now very sad. Gonzaga.

My view is that there will be, as stated above, five powerhouse teams, being Dorman, Whitman, TJ, MLK, and probly RM. However, right below those are maybe around 10-15 schools who will be capable of knocking off any of those five and will all serve as threats. I won't name my list though cuase I'll probly forget someone, wake up in the middle of the night to add it, and see that someone already commented being like what about this time and then I would have been sad.
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Post by segregold »

My view is that there will be, as stated above, five powerhouse teams, being Dorman, Whitman, TJ, MLK, and probly RM.
Well, I hate it when people insinuate that RM is no longer going to be top-caliber because we've lost a couple of seniors (it happened a bit before TJ I this year... a little too much "Chris Ray is gone, now RM is going to be so easy to beat!"), but I'm not going to go on about how great our team is going to be at the start of next year, because it's not true. Patricia is a better captain than a player, and we're retaining our top two scorers (Jeffrey and I), but losing Leonard the Asian-who-does-math is going to hurt.

Furthermore, last year when our seniors graduated there was clear talent ready to move up right at the beginning of the year, resulting in RM wining TJ I with a fair amount of ease because we had an A Team ready to go right in September- for most teams, I would think it takes a few tournaments to work out the ideal lineup. This year, unfortunately (for us), that situation doesn't really exist. Aside from Stephen Hurley, whose expertise falls in areas Jeffrey and I already have covered, no one on the B Team is good enough yet to really deserve a spot on A Team. Hopefully, the fact that several of our players are going to ACE camp and planned heavier-than-usual study and practicing over the summer will fix that, but I do think it's going to take longer than last year for RM to return to top competitiveness. The good (for us) side of this is that I firmly believe that RM will actually improve over the course of next year, in contrast to, say, this year, where we got noticeably worse.

Even more so than last year, the start of next year looks like good times for some new talent. All of the really good teams except for Whitman and Dorman are probably going to start out the year at their weakest in recent memory. A lot of good teams like RM and Gonzaga (probably more, those are the two I know of) have to patch together a new A Team with fresh talent. I think that's the case for a lot of good teams who need replacements... so, good luck to all you floating-just-under-the-radar schools.
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Post by gonzagaeagleahy »

I was actually only going to include a top four powerhouse for next year but decided to just give five including RM figuring that you guys would be powerhouse-material next year, which I know you guys will end up doing.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

I suspect that the teams that will dominate next year will be high-placing teams that aren't losing most of their strongest players. Thus, I'd pick out Dorman, TJ, Whitman, MLK, and Wilmington Charter (though this may be vanity), to be contenders for the national title next year.
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Post by segregold »

I suspect that the teams that will dominate next year will be high-placing teams that aren't losing most of their strongest players. Thus, I'd pick out Dorman, TJ, Whitman, MLK, and Wilmington Charter (though this may be vanity), to be contenders for the national title next year.
Okay, again it really does irritate me when other teams play the, "RM is going to suck/not be capable of winning national tournaments because some of its players are graduating" card. We are retaining our two strongest (frankly, our two strongest by a considerable margin) players, Jeffrey Siegel and I, and our school isn't exactly a dearth of quizbowl talent, so anyone who thinks we're not going to be good anymore can have their mistake rectified by us in competitive play next year.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

segregold wrote:
I suspect that the teams that will dominate next year will be high-placing teams that aren't losing most of their strongest players. Thus, I'd pick out Dorman, TJ, Whitman, MLK, and Wilmington Charter (though this may be vanity), to be contenders for the national title next year.
Okay, again it really does irritate me when other teams play the, "RM is going to suck/not be capable of winning national tournaments because some of its players are graduating" card. We are retaining our two strongest (frankly, our two strongest by a considerable margin) players, Jeffrey Siegel and I, and our school isn't exactly a dearth of quizbowl talent, so anyone who thinks we're not going to be good anymore can have their mistake rectified by us in competitive play next year.
I checked out your stats at Nationals; and you make a good point. You and Siegal do seem to be beastly players. Look forward to seeing you next year.
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Post by Stat Boy »

I suspect that the teams that will dominate next year will be high-placing teams that aren't losing most of their strongest players. Thus, I'd pick out Dorman, TJ, Whitman, MLK, and Wilmington Charter (though this may be vanity), to be contenders for the national title next year.
I wouldn't put Whitman on a tier above RM until we've proven we can beat them on truly pyramidal questions.
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Post by segregold »

You and Siegal do seem to be beastly players. Look forward to seeing you next year.
You too.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and apologize for the "I've never heard of Dorman" thing. I hadn't, but mainly because they didn't go to Nationals last year (apparently? I think I read that somewhere?) and I hadn't been on A Team until May last year. My bad.[/code][/quote]
Last edited by segregold on Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

SwissBoy wrote:I understand. I didn't mean to be terribly nastily spirited here. Although we did beat you, I know that the match could have gone differently without the "politburo" and "Guitar Hero" questions, and I look forward to facing you again at next year's Nationals.
Might I remind you that, along with those already listed, you got a tossup on jeeps, a bonus on Akon, and a rebound of a slightly hose-ish Enkidu tossup. All of that combines to way more swing than there was in our loss margin.

And I would not put you on the top tier at all. I still firmly believe we would beat you on a set with minimal trash. I would certainly put you on the "others to look for" category.
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Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma »

Chuq, there will be Trash next year as well at NAQT ... .that will not change. So I would suggest that you have someone on the team waste some brain space on pop culture so that you can avoid stuff like that. You know it will be there so you have just as much chance of knowing that garbage. Even if it IS totally unacademic and could be learned from staring at the TV for hours, it is still a part of that tournament so you just have to adjust.

That being said, you would probably win a game in PACE format (I think that has less TRASH) but NAQT will continue to be how it is which evens the playing field a bit for teams that don´t know TRASH.

In the construction of the TSU tournament, I have included only one TRASH question per round so hopefully that will be suitable :-P.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

1 trash is fine. I'm certainly aware that trash is (too much) a part of NAQT distribution. 1 per round is OK, but my point is that when there's lots of trash it doesn't really distinguish the best team when it's that close (hence PACE and ACF.)
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Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma »

I know. .. that is obvious ... but that is the way NAQT is so if you want to do better... make someone on the team read Billboard and read about horrible TV shows ... or whatever goes on for studying TRASH.... if there is such a thing.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

We're actually pretty good at a lot of trash, just not cars and video games, which I shouldn't even think should get much distribution in a trash tournament, much less an "academic" one.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:1 trash is fine. I'm certainly aware that trash is (too much) a part of NAQT distribution. 1 per round is OK, but my point is that when there's lots of trash it doesn't really distinguish the best team when it's that close (hence PACE and ACF.)
There's nothing wrong with the level of trash in the distribution. Part of having good, well-rounded knowledge is knowing what it is that normal people are entertained. Although I'm not a great trash player (I'd rather have a round with six geography and seven international current events questions than a Trash-heavy round), I think that it is important to understand pop culture so that we can understand our own time and place as well as others. After all, the works of Charles Dickens and Jane Austen were the "Trash" of their day.

<rant/>
Also, might I remind you that while you would not put us in the top teir, after beating you guys, we beat Gonzaga, the team voted 5th in the pre-national poll, by a margin of 160 points. Earlier in the day, we came within 15 points of beating RMA. We played with high skill at Nationals, and finished higher than or equal to any of the teams that you mentioned in your original prediction post except for TJ or Dorman, one of who, I must concede, will probably win next year.

And as for playing well with low-trash packets: We got second at an ACF college tournament, only defeated by the University of Virginia team, which is mostly populated with students from TJ's class of 2005. We also were semifinalists at TJ's house tournament, which has very little trash.

Thus, while we may not be in nationals-winning range yet, we will be a force to be reckoned with next year. </rant>

Whew! That was a long, angry post. Chris, I don't want to start a flame war, but on the other hand, I'm sick of people overlooking us. I understand that we may be a team from a small state and not within one of the great spheres of Quizbowl power (like the DC area), but I do want us to be recognized for our acheivements.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

There is no remote way that you can argue Jane Austen/Charles Dickens tossups in the 1800s are equivalent to Guitar hero and Jeep tossups. Those are equivalent to asking John Updike/Philip Roth tossups now.
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Post by Jeremy Gibbs Lemma »

well, what exactly did they have back then equivalent to guitar hero and jeep?

maybe the new invention of baseball or something along those lines
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:There is no remote way that you can argue Jane Austen/Charles Dickens tossups in the 1800s are equivalent to Guitar hero and Jeep tossups. Those are equivalent to asking John Updike/Philip Roth tossups now.
Austen and Dickens were trashy pulp authors at the time that they wrote. They would be on the same literary level as say, RA Salvatore, Dan Brown, or Tom Clancy, not classy authors like Roth or Updike. About Jeep: This is a socially significant vehicle. Would you consider a question about the Model T unacceptable? Arguably, this question could even be said to be about business instead of trash. As for Guitar Hero... The game is a work of art. The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, the videogame equivalent of the the comittee that awards the Oscars, declared it Game of the Year. It's an innovative game that did something never done before in the field. It's stylistically good, and plays like a dream. I must disagree entirely with your statements that cars and videogames don't belong in Quizbowl. The car is one of the engines that drives our economy. People should know about them. Video games are the new great art form of the 21st century. Sure, the establishment mocks them, but then again, Van Gogh and Picasso were mocked by their establishment, and today, their work sells for millions of dollars. Of course, if we want to continue this debate, we should probably take it out of this section and into its own theory thread, where it really belongs, instead of here in the prognostication thread, where it is rather irrelevant and off-topic.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I'll second the creation of a new thread.

Dickens and Austen are classy, good authors, like Updike and Roth. Actually, Updike, along with his critically acclaimed work, has written some trashy stuff, and Portnoy's Complaint as been criticized as trash (it's not trashy, it's amazing, but some people don't like it). The time period when they wrote their masterpeices doesn't affect their masterpiece status. Trashy authors from then are the awful gothic novelists who churn out 1000 pages of ridiiculous unreadable words like Bulwer-Lytton.
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Post by DumbJaques »

I'll second the creation of a new thread.
OR we could just acknowledge that debating the minor points of whatever questions came up in some random match is dumb, and realize that 2/2 trash per packet, when combined with like 3/3 geography, stupid random crap, and current events, makes up more of the naqt distribution than mythology, social science, philosophy, and fine arts combined, and that's probably less than ideal for an academic tournament.

Please, I beg everyone, don't start another thread on this fruitless topic.

EDIT
Also, creating such a thread would push a certain individual into the 20 posts/day category, also know as Thompson territory.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

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Post by segregold »

Couple of things here.
I still firmly believe we would beat you on a set with minimal trash.
Okay, NKC dude, I'm going to take your side in most of this, but, come on. "We would have beat you if only the questions had been different" is generally bad form. Yes, trash is painful and unpleasant to go through, but it's a part of NAQT, no reason to whine.

Secondly: whoever that is from Wilmington Charter, please stop with the shameless self promotion. Yeah, I sound a bit hypocritical, I was getting testy when people (a.k.a. you) didn't put RM as a top team, but I hasten to add that a) RM has a well proven record of winning and b) I didn't feel some sort of strange, visceral need to spend entire posts listing my team's "myriad accomplishments". The goal of this thread is to soberly determine what the best teams are likely to be next year, not to try and elbow-twist other teams into admitting that Wilmington Charter is where quizbowl was made.

On the subject of trash and next year, though, it should be noted that I definitely did detect more trash and more "gimmicky" questions at Nationals this year compared to last. How do you all think that is going to affect team standings at the end of the year if greater trash knowledge is required?
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Post by Sir Thopas »

SwissBoy wrote:As for Guitar Hero... The game is a work of art. The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, the videogame equivalent of the the comittee that awards the Oscars, declared it Game of the Year. It's an innovative game that did something never done before in the field.
Alright, this is completely off-topic, but . . . as a rhythm game player, this offends me. Guitar Hero is an excellent game and all, but just because something is the first of its kind to hit it stateside doesn't mean it was innovative at all. When beatmania arrived here, some XPlay critic had the stupidity to pan it as a Guitar Hero ripoff. Ugh.

Feel free to mock me for this post, by the way.
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Post by Gonzagapuma1 »

metsfan001 wrote: rhythm game player
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Post by Sir Thopas »

Gonzagapuma1 wrote:
metsfan001 wrote: rhythm game player
That didn't take long, but c'mon, that's all you got? I didn't even get a (completely incorrect, by the way) response calling me an otaku or weeaboo.
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Post by Magister Ludi »

I have to back up Charlie here. I've played Charter several times this year and they are excatly the kind of team that does well at NAQT, but would do poorly at PACE. We lost an embarssing game to them at the Blue Hen in the finals. But the way they win is by eating up all the trash, current events, and "random crap" questions that are prevalent in NAQT.

And in our defense in the game lost to Charter in the playoffs I had 5 negs (the most I ahd of any agme in the tournament) and I negged on all four lit questions and one of the two arts question (that is the only game in the last three years of my high school career in which I didn't get at least one lit question), and if I had picked up three of those five those questions like I would of in most any other game we would of won that game.

Don't ge me wrong, come the HSNCT next year I thiink Charter is a top 6 team, but I doubt if they would do as well in PACE.
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

metsfan001 wrote:
SwissBoy wrote:As for Guitar Hero... The game is a work of art. The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, the videogame equivalent of the the comittee that awards the Oscars, declared it Game of the Year. It's an innovative game that did something never done before in the field.
Alright, this is completely off-topic, but . . . as a rhythm game player, this offends me. Guitar Hero is an excellent game and all, but just because something is the first of its kind to hit it stateside doesn't mean it was innovative at all. When beatmania arrived here, some XPlay critic had the stupidity to pan it as a Guitar Hero ripoff. Ugh.

Feel free to mock me for this post, by the way.
Forgive me for my ignorance. And on another note, I apologize for any shameless self-promoting. I think that yesterday I was hit with (being from Delaware), some "small-state Napoleon complex." Furthermore, I must admit that Ted is probably right. At least two members of our team (myself and another), are something of "random crap" specialists, though we are beginning to make an effort to learn the academic core stuff too. I apologize if I've been a jerk to anyone.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X
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Post by segregold »

Forgive me for my ignorance. And on another note, I apologize for any shameless self-promoting. I think that yesterday I was hit with (being from Delaware), some "small-state Napoleon complex." Furthermore, I must admit that Ted is probably right. At least two members of our team (myself and another), are something of "random crap" specialists, though we are beginning to make an effort to learn the academic core stuff too. I apologize if I've been a jerk to anyone.
See, now I feel guilty. That is gentlemanly of you. I salute you, good sir.
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Post by No Sollositing On Premise »

SwissBoy wrote:And as for playing well with low-trash packets: We got second at an ACF college tournament, only defeated by the University of Virginia team, which is mostly populated with students from TJ's class of 2005.
I know this is an old post, but I'm compelled to respond. There isn't anyone from the legendary TJ '05 team at UVA. Our only TJ '05 players are Nick Stroup (who's since left the team) and Tim Stanonik, who was a B team regular at TJ. The best TJ grads at UVA that could have played on that team were Leo Wolpert (TJ '01), Shekar Sidarth (TJ '03), Mike Wright (TJ '04), and Steve Young (TJ '04).
Mike Sollosi, University of Virginia
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Post by The Atom Strikes! »

laszlow wrote:
SwissBoy wrote:And as for playing well with low-trash packets: We got second at an ACF college tournament, only defeated by the University of Virginia team, which is mostly populated with students from TJ's class of 2005.
I know this is an old post, but I'm compelled to respond. There isn't anyone from the legendary TJ '05 team at UVA. Our only TJ '05 players are Nick Stroup (who's since left the team) and Tim Stanonik, who was a B team regular at TJ. The best TJ grads at UVA that could have played on that team were Leo Wolpert (TJ '01), Shekar Sidarth (TJ '03), Mike Wright (TJ '04), and Steve Young (TJ '04).
Again, I apologize for my ignorance.

Edit: I'll have to talk to my coach about giving us mistaken information unless he knows about it.
Henry Gorman, Wilmington Charter '09, Rice '13, PhD History Vanderbilt '1X
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