Captain's Veto?

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aestheteboy
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Captain's Veto?

Post by aestheteboy »

This might belong in the theory section.

Usually, when a team answers bonus questions, the first answer given is the only accepted answer. When an inexperienced member on our team blirted out a wrong answer, we were upset, but we never tried to argue that his answer should not be accepted because he is not the captain.

In one match, we played a team who had a member who did the same thing: blirting out the answer directing it at the moderator. Their captain, however, said, "He's not the captain, please ignore it" and eventually got the points.
I feel that they (and we) deserved the points, but if you strictly follow the rules, they should not have gotten the points.

Can a captain veto a teammate's answer?

Edit: Both happened at last week's NAQT state championship.
Teams may confer on bonuses. It is recommended that the captain give the answer for the team or clearly indicate who will give the answer. The moderator, however, will take the first answer unambiguously directed at him or her. If conflicting answers are directed at the moderator, the captain will be asked to choose the team's answer.
Last edited by aestheteboy on Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Captain Sinico
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Post by Captain Sinico »

It depends on the rules you're playing under. Rule sets run the gamut from allowing answers only from the captain to accepting the first thing anyone says above a whisper. Do you have a copy of the rules you were playing under somewhere?

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ecks
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Post by ecks »

I remeber at NAQT sectionals last year, the moderator in one room would never look up to see who was talking and would take my answers when I was conferring even though I wasn't the captain.

Thing is, he only took my conferring answers if they were the right ones. When they were the wrong ones, he waited for the captain to answer. It was weird.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

Yeah I have played in games like that where the moderator never looks up and you can basically say like 20 answers while conferring with your team and if one of them is right, then you get the points. It gets really annoying after a while though.
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Post by jrbarry »

I feel strongly that playing rules should be enforced. I like having only the captain speaking for the team on bonuses. I do not like delegating or deferring to another player to answer. And the reader should only take an answer from the captain. And players should know to defer to their captain. All this assumes that tournament have rules such as what I am referring to. If no rules are in place on this issues, just let it be a free-for-all and roll on.

My personal rule of thumb: have rules that make the game flow and minimize errors and then enforce those rules. Recognition before answering and only captains giving answers on bonuses make the game clear and encourage less judgment errors on the part of readers.

Just my opinion.
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Post by dtaylor4 »

I am of the sentiment that one player in general should be giving the directed answer, but in some cases, deferring is the best option.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't whether or not an answer is directed up to the discretion of the moderator? From my experience, I find this to be the best option in use at the moment and at the moment can't think of a better option.
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Post by First Chairman »

I'd either enforce the rule, or I'd ask the captain "Is that your final answer?" (in the style of Regis).
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Post by Tegan »

This is one of those rare areas where people look at Illinois weird, though I think long ago we got it right. Here, the captain is the only person the moderator listens to, unless the captain defers. As a moderator, I find it easier to not accidentally give something away.

IN NAQT format, I have seen teams roll even very good, experienced moderators in the way being described ..... they run off a gammut of answers, and look for a change in expression on the moderator, indicating that they just struck paydirt. Ideally, the moderator should just look away until the captain answers, but in this format, you have to constantly be looking to see who gives the answer. I always figured this rule existed because there was this national tendency to be very free and open with what players could do ... though I see now the rule has its drawbacks to players who don't have well trained teammates.
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Post by quizbowllee »

I've always played under rules that pretty clearly state that only the captain or a player to whom the captain has explicitly deferred should be listened to by the moderator. I encourage my players to discuss bonus parts LOUDLY on non-bounceback questions. This minimizes the chance that the captain won't hear an answer. However, if the moderator just accepts whatever he or she first hears loudly from ANY player, then this system falls apart.

So, in conclusion, unless the captain is obviously speaking his or her answer to the moderator, or has emphatically deferred to another player, then the moderator should ignore anything heard.
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Post by sweaver »

As a reader, I tend to look directly at the captain on bonus questions, and wait for him/her to make eye contact for an official answer.
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Post by Howard »

I'd say it depends on the moderator's discretion regarding whether the player was answering or conferring. This is sometimes difficult to establish, especially if the moderator isn't directly looking at the team at the time it occurs, which isn't the case in most normal situations where the question has been completed for a second or so.

I don't recall any instances of this occurring in my room, but out of curiosity, was I the reader? If so, you may be able to jog my memory by referring back to the idividual question.
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Post by ecks »

jrbarry wrote:I do not like delegating or deferring to another player to answer. And the reader should only take an answer from the captain.
I feel like this is a little unfair, especially for high school teams whose captains don't know math or foreign pronunciations. I've seen plenty of points lost because one member of the team was trying to relay the answers he had on a math bonus and ran out of time because the answers were very long, OR because the captain just couldn't properly prononuce the 13-syllable-long word with 40 consonants in the 3 seconds of instruction he got from the teammate that knows it.

Of course, otherwise I would agree with you, and I feel like designation needs to be clearly made and understood.
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Post by Captain Sinico »

Hi guys,
I think the moderator should follow the tournament rules?

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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

In Missouri, the official rule is that only the captain can give the bonus answer. No deferring or anything. I hate that rule because we've lost points before from not being able to defer to our more knowledgeable players (for instance, when there's hard math, it could take our math player a while to get an answer, and often they will figure out the problem and begin to tell me what to start with when the mod calls time, but if I deferred they could have started. Last year we had a captain who was really bad because often he would take too long to start on answers that I was telling, and we lost a number of games for those kinds of problems.)

Whenever we can, I defer to the more knowledgeable player on our team for a particular question, but I've never played in a game where the moderator takes another player's answer when I didn't previosly defer. In some local formats, for instance when there's a lightning round, we will switch captains. At Truman HS's tournament our player Brandon was captain for a game because he knew most of the sports stuff in a lightning round. But that was specifically designated by me.
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Post by sweaver »

ImmaculateDeception wrote:Hi guys,
I think the moderator should follow the tournament rules?

MaS
Oh, what fun would that be? :lol:

You must follow competition rules. There are different ways to follow that, and ways to instruct readers to follow it.
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Post by The Doctor »

I agree with Otto Witte on the deferring question, especially for high school. While I do know math (I was the only math player on my team during my senior year), and consider myself to be relatively good at foreign pronunciations, I am not well-versed in many subject areas. Playing in Illinois format, with bounce-back PLEASE MAKE FUN OF ME BECAUSE I SPEAK NEITHER LATIN NOR ENGLISH, I often had trouble understanding teammates who were talking quietly for fear of the other team hearing the answers. When your potential points ride on the pronunciation of a word, it is important that that word be pronounced correctly. I therefore regard deferring as a necessary evil.

It depends heavily on the format, however, and it's true that moderators should follow tourny rules. Of course, there will always be moderators who don't pay attention to rules, but I'll try to avoid that particular rant.
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