RESULTS: Harrison (IN) wins QU NAC 2007!

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
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Post by Howard »

jrbarry wrote:I guess it is amazing I went back to the NAC in 2002 and 2003 and 2004. But, alas, I am a sucker for my kids requests!
This is among the most important reasons to participate in any tournament. Sometimes people forget that this activity (in high school) is about the students. What have we promoted if we drive them to do something they didn't really want to do? Not much more than a desire to quite, that's what.

We received at least one invite (can't remember the exact number now) in the early '00s. As a team, we decided we there were better things to do with that amount of money. We went to PACE-NSC once in the same period and, while we had our clocks cleaned pretty well, I never thought I had a poor return on the investment.
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Post by First Chairman »

In DC:

June 2: 8-9 pm "Who wants to be a game show host" quasi-reality show.

Hilarity shall ensue as everyone dons the green jacket.
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Post by Tegan »

jrbarry wrote:"Define and spell ambivalent." My captain spelled it properly and said "undecided between two differing views." That was ruled incorrect. IS captain spells it properly and sas "Not caring which side you take." IS answwer was ruled correct. I protested at the end of gher 4th Q and was told my kid's definition was wrong....

Well, after dinner, an Irmo kid came by and told me we had been declared the "winners" in our IS match. I went to the official board and saw that BOTH IS and Brookwood had been awarded wins in that match which was listed as a tie.
So the irony is tha Mr. Beal was in fact ambivalent about the outcome of that match.

After hearing the Chip-bashing over the past years, I actually drove over and sat in as a third-party neutral observor for six matches when the NAC was in Chicago. I only saw six matches, and while I cannot say I saw everything this organization has been accused of, I saw plenty of red flags go up in that short a time ..... everything from pandering to the audience, poor decisions on accepting answers, acting with poor taste, making the host, not the players, the focus of the match, opening the possibility of blatant cheating, and some of the worst questions I have head since I last heard Answers Plus questions years ago. Admittadly, its my opinion, but I figured that if this is what I saw in six matches, I probably didn't need to see more after that.

I can't vouch for Mr. Beal pesonally, we never met; I only saw him host three matches, but I would never permit a team I coaches to go within 500 yards of this tournament. The thing just has a very bad vibe to it.
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San Antonio?

Post by SHP Pirate »

Does anyone know what happened in San Antonio today?
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Looking at the roster, it doesn't appear that many of the teams post here. I think we might have someone from Horace Greeley, but that's about it for names at that site that played today. Ripley is from West Virginia, but I don't expect any news from them until after the fact. So we may not be able to find out what happened until Tuesday, for while Chip loves publicity, he's a bit slow in pushing it out on the site.
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Post by First Chairman »

He'll put out his own summary of the regional events probably later in the week. As history has witnessed, he needs the time to pump up the teams that he was most impressed with, but he usually doesn't give anyone any insight into what happened in specific game situations.
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Post by Byko »

E.T. Chuck wrote:In DC:

June 2: 8-9 pm "Who wants to be a game show host" quasi-reality show.

Hilarity shall ensue as everyone dons the green jacket.
I'm calling FRAUGHT on this right now.

Also, while every national deserves some attention, when it's been two days and you've heard nothing official (only the unofficial statement from a Copley player that "we went 4-2 and beat Scripps Ranch A in the first round of playoffs"), it probably deserves less attention. Seriously, nobody would tolerate a two-day delay in the results from NAQT or PACE, and PAC updates their results daily too.
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Post by bsmith »

Byko wrote:Also, while every national deserves some attention, when it's been two days and you've heard nothing official ... it probably deserves less attention.
Ha. Reach for the Top has the results up from last year. I had to do newspaper article searches to find out the (unofficial) results of the provinces and nationals this year. I know there's a mailed newsletter for all the teams, but what about the general public?
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Post by sweaver »

I would be happy to hear any information that can be had about West Virginia teams in the NAC. It looks to me like Ripley High was at San Antonio, and Bridgeport High and Jackson Jr. High will be at D.C.
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Post by Byko »

Results are up:

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Analysis to come later.
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Post by Byko »

Okay, it's later:

1. Poor Copley B. Going 0-6 is tough, but their schedule (for this field) was pretty nasty: 5 playoff teams and 1 team that would go 3-3 for a total record of 27-9 for their opponents.

2. Coincidentally, the distribution of teams record-wise was perfectly balanced:

1 6-0 team
4 5-1 teams
5 4-2 teams
5 3-3 teams
5 2-4 teams
4 1-5 teams
1 0-6 team

3. Nobody looks impressive here. For one, every team lost a game. For another, that seems like a low-scoring final. I know this is Horace Greeley's format, but this doesn't bode well for them in the Final Four.
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Post by sweaver »

Thanks for the info. Does anyone know what state the Ripley team is from?
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Byko wrote:Results are up:

http://www.qunlimited.com/national.htm

Analysis to come later.
I think you mislinked? I'm looking at results on the schedule from http://www.qunlimited.com/nasched7.htm. Your link appears to go to '06 results.
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Post by Byko »

sweaver wrote:Thanks for the info. Does anyone know what state the Ripley team is from?
I would have thought that that was Ripley, WV--haven't heard of another one in quiz bowl ever before.
leftsaidfred wrote:I think you mislinked? I'm looking at results on the schedule from http://www.qunlimited.com/nasched7.htm. Your link appears to go to '06 results.
Clear and refresh your browser. That link at least gives the summary so far from 2007. The prelim and playoff round scores are also linked from that page.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

In the third period, Horace Greeley selected first, opting for the OGDEN NASH category, and gained 70 points to Penn Manor's 10. Penn Manor's unfortunate choice was SUE GRAFTON, and they picked up only 20 points to Horace Greeley's 0.
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Post by The Time Keeper »

Matt Weiner wrote:
In the third period, Horace Greeley selected first, opting for the OGDEN NASH category, and gained 70 points to Penn Manor's 10. Penn Manor's unfortunate choice was SUE GRAFTON, and they picked up only 20 points to Horace Greeley's 0.
Penn Manor's unfortunate choice was the NAC.
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Post by jhn31 »

As someone who went to this tournament for 4 years in high school, I'll go ahead and say that, though it's not an excellent tournament, the complete trashing of it on this forum is unfounded. It's a fun, exciting tournament, and was a trip I looked forward to every year.

Oh, and congrats to Jackson Prep. Very impressive to knock off the only 6-0 team. Way to represent Mississippi, and hopefully my alma mater will do the same next week at DC.
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Post by The Time Keeper »

jhn31 wrote:As someone who went to this tournament for 4 years in high school, I'll go ahead and say that, though it's not an excellent tournament, the complete trashing of it on this forum is unfounded.
I think it's only trashed in the sense that people are (rightfully) claiming that, if desire to play good quizbowl were the only qualifier, one would be completely insane to choose the NAC over something like NAQT or PACE even without factoring in pricing and number of guaranteed games. I feel that is completely justified.

Unfounded would be if someone said "All things considered, setting yourself on fire is a better use of one's time, money, and gasoline than attending NAC," without the slightest hint of sarcasm. Since that hasn't happened, I wouldn't call any disparaging of the NAC I've seen so far unfounded.

It's a horrible tournament run on horrible questions by demonstrably unethical people.
Last edited by The Time Keeper on Thu May 31, 2007 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

jhn31 wrote:As someone who went to this tournament for 4 years in high school, I'll go ahead and say that, though it's not an excellent tournament, the complete trashing of it on this forum is unfounded. It's a fun, exciting tournament, and was a trip I looked forward to every year.

Oh, and congrats to Jackson Prep. Very impressive to knock off the only 6-0 team. Way to represent Mississippi, and hopefully my alma mater will do the same next week at DC.
Unless you're doing so already, please post in Chris's new thread in this section.
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Post by Bigfoot isn't the pr »

Seeing the outrage caused by the lack of updates, I will try to give updates on this forum as quickly as I can (I will be attending the Orlando tourney). The hotel has free internet access so it shouldn't be much of a problem
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Post by Byko »

Sasquatch wrote:Seeing the outrage caused by the lack of updates, I will try to give updates on this forum as quickly as I can (I will be attending the Orlando tourney). The hotel has free internet access so it shouldn't be much of a problem
Good stuff. I'll be at NAC in Washington tomorrow and Sunday hoping to meet people and network, so I'll toss some updated results online tomorrow and Sunday nights (unfortunately, I won't be able to see playoffs on Monday, so someone else will have to cover me on that).
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Post by sweaver »

Byko wrote:
sweaver wrote:Thanks for the info. Does anyone know what state the Ripley team is from?
I would have thought that that was Ripley, WV--haven't heard of another one in quiz bowl ever before.
I was assuming that, then decided I shouldn't, especially since San Antonio is so much farther than D.C. from here.
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Post by First Chairman »

Byko wrote:
Sasquatch wrote:Seeing the outrage caused by the lack of updates, I will try to give updates on this forum as quickly as I can (I will be attending the Orlando tourney). The hotel has free internet access so it shouldn't be much of a problem
Good stuff. I'll be at NAC in Washington tomorrow and Sunday hoping to meet people and network, so I'll toss some updated results online tomorrow and Sunday nights (unfortunately, I won't be able to see playoffs on Monday, so someone else will have to cover me on that).
If my parents will let me (they're visiting me) and the shuttle works... or maybe I'll just drive.

Otherwise I appreciate Sasquatch being a field reporter, especially to have the final championship team determined. Don't let us down. :cool:
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Post by First Chairman »

Dolemite wrote:It's a horrible tournament run on horrible questions by demonstrably unethical people.
I will caveat this by saying that some of the people who do help out with running the tournament are certainly ethical... just that not everyone there seems to appreciate what "ethics" is.
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Post by BuzzerZen »

Dr. Chuck has parents? That's a strange thought for some reason...it's like when you ran into a teacher outside of school for the first time and realized they didn't live at school.

Um, carry on.
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Focus on the positives

Post by First Chairman »

It has been announced (probably in San Antonio and will be in Orlando):

In celebration of the 25th anniversary year of the National Academic Championship, :chip: has announced a few changes to next year including:

* lifting of the requirement to have an alternate.
* reduction of the entry fee to $600 per team (which is still $150 per person for a four-person team, but I guess other people like coaches and chaperones need not pay their $150 per person).
* the tournament schedule will be consolidated to three rather than four days per site

Dave can fill in the details that I forgot if there are any additional items.
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Post by First Chairman »

BuzzerZen wrote:Dr. Chuck has parents? That's a strange thought for some reason...it's like when you ran into a teacher outside of school for the first time and realized they didn't live at school.

Um, carry on.
Hee hee... believe me, I'm not THAT old, but it is not often that my parents visit me. They just chose this weekend (along with my sister who is visiting the area for Georgetown-related things).

Just wait until the day R has children. Maybe he'll post them up on the NAQT website. (I saw :chip: 's little son helping out today.)

For Sasquatch: if you sweep the category round and choose the Andrew Beall CD over the chocolate cigs, I will see if we can swap your CD with a Matt Morrison CD. (Hopefully Matt has a few copies to swap off with you. :wink: )
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Post by Byko »

Stats summary so far (I would have a little bit more detail, but when I left at 9:30, not all of the scores were posted--sorry, folks)

Known to be undefeated:
Hamilton Southeastern (IN) 3-0
Harrison A (IN) 3-0
High Tech (NJ) 2-0
South Brunswick (NJ) 4-0
Torrey Pines (CA) 4-0
Seton Hall (NJ) 3-0

Other teams of note:
Apollo (KY) 0-3
Brandon Valley (SD) 2-4
Eureka (SD) 0-4
Jackson Jr. High (WV) 2-2
Madison Central (MS) 1-1
Perryville (MD) 3-3
Plano A (TX) 3-1
Plano B (TX) 2-2
River Valley (MI?) 3-1
Rye Country Day (NY) 3-1
Ticonderoga (NY) 1-5
Ysleta (TX) 2-2

Again, I know this isn't complete, but at this hour, this is about all my brain can handle. I'll have fuller results (and some analysis, including thoughts on the questions) tomorrow night after all the prelims are over.
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Post by Jackson_Raj »

sweaver wrote:I would be happy to hear any information that can be had about West Virginia teams in the NAC. It looks to me like Ripley High was at San Antonio, and Bridgeport High and Jackson Jr. High will be at D.C.
As far as I know, I believe Brideport is 1-3, though I'm not sure. One of their biggest matches was against Seton Hall, where they lost 180-200.

We've beaten Eureka and Brandon Valley, and we've lost to Torrey Pines and Harrison B. Tomorrow, we play Shepton A and B.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

E.T. Chuck wrote:
BuzzerZen wrote:Dr. Chuck has parents? That's a strange thought for some reason...it's like when you ran into a teacher outside of school for the first time and realized they didn't live at school.

Um, carry on.
Hee hee... believe me, I'm not THAT old, but it is not often that my parents visit me. They just chose this weekend (along with my sister who is visiting the area for Georgetown-related things).

Just wait until the day R has children. Maybe he'll post them up on the NAQT website. (I saw :chip: 's little son helping out today.)

For Sasquatch: if you sweep the category round and choose the Andrew Beall CD over the chocolate cigs, I will see if we can swap your CD with a Matt Morrison CD. (Hopefully Matt has a few copies to swap off with you. :wink: )
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Post by ieppler »

Byko wrote:Perryville (MD) 3-3
There are :chip: tournaments in Maryland?

I'm pretty sure I included them in the mailed announcement for the Maryland NAQT state championship. Interesting to see a Maryland team in the NAC.
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Post by Frater Taciturnus »

All things considered, setting yourself on fire is a better use of one's time, money, and gasoline than attending NAC.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I'm surprised Apollo went to this crap, considering they've attended PACE, NAQT, and numerous good invitational tournaments over the years. We saw them at Vandy in the fall, actually.
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Post by Jackson_Raj »

We're 4-2 now: we beat Shepton A and Shepton B. They were worthy opponents.
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Post by STPickrell »

Hopper wrote:
Byko wrote:Perryville (MD) 3-3
There are :chip: tournaments in Maryland?

I'm pretty sure I included them in the mailed announcement for the Maryland NAQT state championship. Interesting to see a Maryland team in the NAC.
There is some sort of Comcast tournament on the Eastern Shore -- not sure if there are any tournaments. Cambridge-South Dorchester (they'll show up at UMD tournaments on occasion) has usually won this competition and they get a free trip to NAC.
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End of prelims from DC

Post by SHP Pirate »

Many of you in the Northeast know me so ... I will refrain from commenting upon the questions themselves. Here are the top 16 advancing to tomorrow's playoffs.

Disclaimer: These are based upon the numbers posted by NAC. As to their validity ... ???

1. Torrey Pines, CA (6-0) 380 ppg
2. Harrison A, IN (6-0) 379.17 ppg
3. New Rochelle, NY (6-0) 330.83 ppg
4. South Brunswick, NJ (6-0) 298.83 ppg
5. Hamilton South Eastern, IN (6-0) 268 ppg (based upon 5 games ... I did not catch the game 6 score)

6. Seton Hall Prep, NJ (5-1) 307.5 ppg (lost to Torrey Pines)
7. Ithaca, NY (5-1) 258.33 ppg (lost to Madison Central)

8. High Tech, NJ (4-2) 344.1 ppg (lost to Harrison A & New Rochelle)
9. Bellaire A, TX (4-2) 307.5 ppg (lost to Ithaca & South Brunswick)
10. Plano A, TX (4-2) 275.83 ppg (lost to Ithaca & South Brunswick)
11. Plano East, TX (4-2) 265.83 ppg (lost to High Tech & Fisher)
12. Rye Country Day,NY (4-2) 263.33 ppg (lost to Seton Hall & Plano East)
13. Knoxville West, TN (4-2) 252.5 ppg (lost to Bellaire B & Ysleta)
14. Fishers, IN (4-2) 250.83 ppg (lost to Plano A & Plano B)
15. Jackson, WV (4-2) 219.16 ppg (lost to Torrey Pines & Harrison B)

Now ... something is wrong as we (SHP) are slated to play Rye Country Day, despite the fact that, according to the stats taken directly from the "official" scoreboards, we should be playing Plano East.

Ah well ..
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Post by J C Bennett »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:I'm surprised Apollo went to this crap, considering they've attended PACE, NAQT, and numerous good invitational tournaments over the years. We saw them at Vandy in the fall, actually.
Without insinuating anything as to their motives, I do know Apollo's coach pretty well and he absolutely loves to travel.
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Post by Byko »

J C Bennett wrote:
charlieDfromNKC wrote:I'm surprised Apollo went to this crap, considering they've attended PACE, NAQT, and numerous good invitational tournaments over the years. We saw them at Vandy in the fall, actually.
Without insinuating anything as to their motives, I do know Apollo's coach pretty well and he absolutely loves to travel.
I watched Apollo and got to spend some time talking with John over the weekend (always good to see coaches I know and to meet new ones). The main point for him was that this was pretty much the only weekend that his team was able to travel and compete anywhere at a national tournament. They do like to travel, and he definitely prefers PACE or NAQT, but since this was the only weekend and since it is a national and that it could be good for reputation, they went.

Now then, although the playoff information was posted earlier (thanks Mike, and also thank you for double-checking and verifying what I thought was an error on their part in terms of the playoff pairings), here's the full listing of prelim results based on the scores that were posted:

Torrey Pines (CA) 6-0 2300
Harrison A (IN) 6-0 2275
New Rochelle (NY) 6-0 1985
South Brunswick (NJ) 6-0 1790
Hamilton Southeastern (IN) 6-0 1660
Seton Hall (NJ) 5-1 1845 (lost to Torrey Pines 355-220)
Ithaca (NY) 5-1 1600 (lost to Madison Central 320-170)
High Tech (NJ) 4-2 2065 (lost to New Rochelle 270-260, Harrison A 345-215)
Bellaire A (TX) 4-2 1845 (lost to South Brunswick 255-235, Ithaca 320-310)
Plano A (TX) 4-2 1655 (lost to Ithaca 310-225, South Brunswick 290-220)
Plano East (TX) 4-2 1625 (lost to High Tech 385-220, Fishers 300-225)
Rye Country Day (NY) 4-2 1580 (lost to Seton Hall 375-165, Plano East 370-205)
Knoxville West (TN) 4-2 1515 (lost to Bellaire B 225-220 in 6OT, Ysleta 290-190)
Fishers (IN) 4-2 1505 (lost to Plano A 295-175, Plano B 200-180)
Jackson Jr. High (WV) 4-2 1315 (lost to Harrison B 180-160, Torrey Pines 370-110)
Madison Central (MS) 3-3 1480
River Valley (OH) 3-3 1405
Perryville (MD) 3-3 1285
Plano B (TX) 3-3 1235
St. Croix (VI) 3-3 1230
Shepton A (TX) 3-3 1110
Ysleta (TX) 3-3 1110
Bellaire B (TX) 2-4 1290
Plano West (TX) 2-4 1205
Brandon Valley (SD) 2-4 1175
Bridgeport (WV) 2-4 1135
Bennett (MD) 2-4 1120
Warren Area (PA) 2-4 1035
Harrison B (IN) 2-4 995
Hershey (PA) 1-5 1345
Delaware Valley (PA) 1-5 1305
Ticonderoga (NY) 1-5 1195
Tatnall (DE) 1-5 1055
Lamar (Houston, TX) 1-5 1010
Wallenpaupack (PA) 1-5 975
Apollo (KY) 1-5 935
Shepton B (TX) 0-6 1170
Eureka (SD) 0-6 705

Playoff predictions:

1. The winner of High Tech/Bellaire A will upset Torrey Pines. Don't get me wrong: Torrey Pines is good, but they aren't battle-tested (1 game against a playoff opponent, and they were down by 75 entering the 60 seconds round in that one before sweeping a very easy Composers and Their Works 60-seconds round while Seton Hall struggled with their choice).

2. Harrison A is definitely beatable. They also looked good most of the time, and again, they went from trailing entering the 60 Seconds Round to having a big lead after it, a lead they expanded in the fourth quarter. They'll have their hands full in a semifinal against New Rochelle.

3. I think the final four in DC will be High Tech, Harrison A, New Rochelle, and South Brunswick (who is decently strong in this format but is also the beneficiary of a comparatively weak playoff draw). High Tech defeats South Brunswick, but Harrison A defeats New Rochelle in the semifinals and High Tech in the finals to go to Orlando thanks to strong 4th quarter performances.

More thoughts/analysis on the 30+ rounds of the tournament that I watched and the questions I heard later.
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Post by jhn31 »

Is it necessary that you must have a 4-2 record to make the playoffs?

Back in my high school day, it was a set # of teams (either 20 or 16, depending on the total size of the field), and sometimes .500 teams could make it.

That's lame to me if they changed it, since 15 is an awkward number and my alma mater would be the #16 to complete the bracket.
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Post by Jackson_Raj »

jhn31 wrote:Is it necessary that you must have a 4-2 record to make the playoffs?

Back in my high school day, it was a set # of teams (either 20 or 16, depending on the total size of the field), and sometimes .500 teams could make it.

That's lame to me if they changed it, since 15 is an awkward number and my alma mater would be the #16 to complete the bracket.
You must have a 4-2, 5-1, or 6-0 record to make the playoffs. It was just by chance that 15 teams happened to have these records.
Last edited by Jackson_Raj on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sir Thopas »

jhn31 wrote:That's lame to me if they changed it, since 15 is an awkward number and my alma mater would be the #16 to complete the bracket.
Bias aside, how does having exactly one 3-3 team in the playoffs make sense at all?
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Post by cvdwightw »

metsfan001 wrote:Bias aside, how does having exactly one 3-3 team in the playoffs make sense at all?
What tournament are we talking about?
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Results from DC?

Post by SHP Pirate »

The final-four were Torrey Pines v. South Brunswick and Harrison v. Seton Hall Prep. Torrey Pines eked a one-question win over South Brunswick while Harrison dominated Seton Hall.

We left at that point and I do not know what happened next. I am sure that Chip will post in a few days but ... did any one stay to watch the finals?
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Post by First Chairman »

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Post by Stained Diviner »

Isn't shingles from chickenpox?

Anybody curious about how well Harrison does on NAQT questions should go here. They would have had a decent chance of making the playoffs at HSNCT. Congrats to Harrison for winning a national championship, and congrats to our friends at Loyola for beating a national champion.
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Post by First Chairman »

Not so fast my friend... they only make it out of the DC regional and slated to play Horace Greeley.
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Post by DumbJaques »

Ans. You are crazier than a goat
<some assertion that smallpox is a common childhood disease>
What the Christ.
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Post by The Time Keeper »

ReinsteinD wrote:Isn't shingles from chickenpox?

Anybody curious about how well Harrison does on NAQT questions should go here. They would have had a decent chance of making the playoffs at HSNCT. Congrats to Harrison for winning a national championship, and congrats to our friends at Loyola for beating a national champion.
I think they only won a section of the championship, not the whole thing. Regardless, it speaks well as to where the quality teams go when you say the winner of a Beall sectional simply has a good chance of making the huge playoffs at NAQT.
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Post by cvdwightw »

Dolemite wrote:I think they only won a section of the championship, not the whole thing. Regardless, it speaks well as to where the quality teams go when you say the winner of a Beall sectional simply has a good chance of making the huge playoffs at NAQT.
Sadly, I'd have to concur with this statement even if Torrey Pines had managed to win. I think their play all year was similar to that of Rancho Bernardo, for those of you who played them at NAQT.

Question: It seems now that "unfortunate choices" in the sixty-second round have more-or-less screwed teams out of victories in just about every game worth mentioning. Is this intentional to have 60-second rounds of wildly uneven difficulty, just so :chip: and whoever else can laugh on the inside about the good team that got suckered into taking the topic no one in their right mind would do well on?
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Post by First Chairman »

Dolemite wrote:
ReinsteinD wrote:Isn't shingles from chickenpox?

Anybody curious about how well Harrison does on NAQT questions should go here. They would have had a decent chance of making the playoffs at HSNCT. Congrats to Harrison for winning a national championship, and congrats to our friends at Loyola for beating a national champion.
I think they only won a section of the championship, not the whole thing. Regardless, it speaks well as to where the quality teams go when you say the winner of a Beall sectional simply has a good chance of making the huge playoffs at NAQT.
Having seen some of the teams myself (though NOT at NAQT HSCT), I think that if these team prepare on NAQT questions over Chip's questions, they would have a very good shot to make the playoff field (unless they suffer from the "hard luck schedule" that Chip sometimes points out). But I agree: What they do in that field however, we can all debate later, but I would give more benefit of the doubt to the teams.
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