RESULTS: VHSL Regional/District Tournaments (Jan-Feb 2007)

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:46 pm

Not to take you away from taking care of your family, while I watch the snow and listen to hockey before the Duke-UNC #1-#2 game (followed by Ohio State-Wisconsin)...

I don't know how to tread on this question but here 'tis:
Who (don't need names) is on the Advisory Committee? Would student representation be something of interest (to students or the Committee)?

STPickrell · Post by **STPickrell** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:44 pm

Five coaches and one AD. I am on fairly close terms with three of the coaches as well as the coach whose AD is on the committee, so I don't see any steps forward being taken back.

Student representation might be an interesting idea.

Zip Zap Rap Pants · Post by **Zip Zap Rap Pants** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:47 pm

StPickrell wrote: Math is not a subject where one can easily read up on it independently, as is the case with literature and history.

This is why I wish foreign language questions weren't present (besides the fact that they're not pyramidal). I agree that calc questions might be a bit unfair to young teams from schools that only offer it to seniors and such, but there should at least be stats and trig questions like the heron's formula one you came up with (which was pretty good I think).

I don't have a problem with the amount of trash so much as the amount of trashy academic questions, like the trash lit I talked about earlier. Also, NA-cutie type clues come up now and then, though Marian Suter, Dan Goff, Adam Fine and I edited some of them out the night before states (an example would be the math question on planes that ended with "they may or may not contain snakes").

Oh and this is a minor thing, but the night before I should have caught the Capone tossup. [Edited for blatant retardation on my part] The answer should have perhaps included a note asking the quizmaster to prompt on Scarface before its mention, since someone in Group A buzzed in with that basically after the first clue about how he got his nickname (which was counted as a neg).

When I have some time during Spring Break or sometime I'll try to come up with an ideal distribution list, I have a basic idea already though...

Gonzagapuma1 · Post by **Gonzagapuma1** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:06 pm

Frankie Yale is the Five Points Gang leader. Frankie Vallie's a singer.

NotBhan · Post by **NotBhan** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:16 pm

Matt Morrison wrote: ... though Marian Suter, Dan Goff, Adam Fine and I edited some of them out the night before states (an example would be the math question on planes that ended with "they may or may not contain snakes").

Why?

dschafer · Post by **dschafer** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:18 pm

StPickrell wrote:THIS IS A COMPUTATION QUESTION. You are trying to find the area of a triangle with sides of length 4, 8, and 10. This seems impossible, but with Heron's formula becomes much easier. Calculate the semiperimeter, s, by adding the lengths of the sides and dividing by two. Then, multiply s, s minus a, s minus b, and s minus c, where a, b, and c are the sides. Then take the square root of that product; fortunately, this radical doesn't need to be reduced. Therefore, what is the area of a triangle with sides of length 4, 8, and 10?

ANSWER: _square root of 231_ (the square root of 11 * 7 * 3 * 1)

From my view, this question looks great. Anyone familiar with Heron's will be able to start it immediately. Someone who knows Heron's, but wouldn't immediately know to apply it here will start it on the first mention of "Heron's". Someone who doesn't know Heron's won't get it until the very end of the tossup, and the numbers are small enough that they are workable.

jbarnes112358 · Post by **jbarnes112358** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:23 pm

NotBhan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: ... though Marian Suter, Dan Goff, Adam Fine and I edited some of them out the night before states (an example would be the math question on planes that ended with "they may or may not contain snakes").
Why?

I don't know. But, it was possibly because they were afraid that the collective groans from the audience may have been disruptive to the game.

First Chairman · Post by **First Chairman** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:29 pm

jbarnes112358 wrote:
NotBhan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: ... though Marian Suter, Dan Goff, Adam Fine and I edited some of them out the night before states (an example would be the math question on planes that ended with "they may or may not contain snakes").
Why?
I don't know. But, it was possibly because they were afraid that the collective groans from the audience may have been disruptive to the game.

Well, it could be worse: there could be just complete clueless silence.

Zip Zap Rap Pants · Post by **Zip Zap Rap Pants** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:31 pm

Gonzagapuma1 wrote:Frankie Yale is the Five Points Gang leader. Frankie Vallie's a singer.

Doh, way to go MC PM on stereotyping all Italian-Americans as gangsters, and all Irish New Yorkers as cops...

By the way one of the neg prizes I have for the Col. Ebirt has a "Feeling stupid? I know I am" button, if that's a useful clue for figuring out what it is, hehe.

Zip Zap Rap Pants · Post by **Zip Zap Rap Pants** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:38 pm

NotBhan wrote:
Matt Morrison wrote: ... though Marian Suter, Dan Goff, Adam Fine and I edited some of them out the night before states (an example would be the math question on planes that ended with "they may or may not contain snakes").
Why?

Umm... because tossups should reward knowledge...in the area we're asking about. Seriously, do you want people getting tossups in any category based on movie/pop culture knowledge? If so then I apologize for our lack of any sense of humor

NotBhan · Post by **NotBhan** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:00 pm

Matt Morrison wrote: Umm... because tossups should reward knowledge...in the area we're asking about. Seriously, do you want people getting tossups in any category based on movie/pop culture knowledge? If so then I apologize for our lack of any sense of humor

Sure -- I've got no problem with that. The question was pretty easy by the point at which the last clue was given -- any player who couldn't get "plane" before that has no right to complain if the other team gets the question as a result. A punnish clue shouldn't appear at the beginning of such a tossup, but if it adds a bit of levity at the end, there's no harm in that. More generally, there's no need to actively edit out such things when you could be spending precious editing time on more important things.

--Raj Dhuwalia

BuzzerZen · Post by **BuzzerZen** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:09 pm

There is a reason to edit punny last clues out: it's because they suck. NAcuties make otherwise serious questions totally pointless. The point of a giveaway clue is not to allow anyone to answer a tossup, but to allow anyone who knows something about the answer to answer the tossup.

Zip Zap Rap Pants · Post by **Zip Zap Rap Pants** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:50 pm

Also, we couldn't make massive substantive edits, it was mostly language, grammar, pronunciation, the flow of the question, and factually wrong stuff. And editing out unnecessary or somewhat misleading clues, or adding minor things for clarity. For instance, changing Charles to Charles III for the founder of the Valois dynasty, and on the Hallie Selassie tossup making the beginning say "He attained the title" instead of "He became" because the latter wording makes one think he changed his name to that, plus the former wording at least cues you in to knowing the question is probably about royalty, which is useful.

msuter · Post by **msuter** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:51 pm

As a note: Discussion of VHSL District and Region questions is now permitted, as all state tournament participants are now determined. Some VHSL questions may make it into a tournament in Missouri but we will be careful to not use questions that achieve infamy.

You might want to check with Shawn before you discuss too many specific questions from Saturday since some of the VHSL questions may be used in Missouri, as noted above.

STPickrell · Post by **STPickrell** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:37 pm

Here's the scores from all the matches.

Group A results

George Mason 295, Twin Springs 40
West Point 185, Parry McCluer 130
Mathews 210, Honaker 140
Radford 205, Rappahannock County 140

George Mason 250, West Point 145
Radford 190, Mathews 150
Parry McCluer 150, Twin Springs 100 (elim)
Rappahannock County 270, Honaker 85 (elim)

George Mason 240, Radford 160
Mathews 200, Parry McCluer 160 (elim)
Rappahannock County 180, West Point 145 (elim)

Mathews 290, Rappahannock County 85 (elim)

Radford 195, Mathews 185 (elim). This was decided by a nasty protest where one of my questions was mostly to blame.

George Mason 270, Radford 115 (elim)

4,910 points over 14 matches (350.71 combined ppg)

Group AA results
Charlottesville 225, Graham 95
Cave Spring 215, Tabb 130
Riverbend 170, Patrick County 150
Monticello 215, Heritage 195

Charlottesville 235, Cave Spring 185
Monticello 215, Riverbend 125
Tabb 250, Graham 60 (elim)
Heritage 280, Patrick County 90 (elim)

Charlottesville 200, Monticello 160
Tabb 190, Riverbend 175 (elim)
Heritage 230, Cave Spring 160 (elim)

Heritage 300, Tabb 170 (elim, this is NOT a typo)

Heritage 240, Monticello 185 (elim)

Charlottesville 210, Heritage 205 (elim)

5,260 points over 14 matches (375.71 combined ppg)

Group AAA results

Maggie Walker 205, Hayfield 200
Princess Anne 280, E.C. Glass 115
Thomas Jefferson 230, Ocean Lakes 140
Henrico 230, Albemarle 180

Maggie Walker 245, Princess Anne 210
Thomas Jefferson 260, Henrico 160
Hayfield 285, E.C. Glass 120 (elim)
Ocean Lakes 205, Albemarle 150 (elim)

Thomas Jefferson 250, Maggie Walker 180
Henrico 165, Hayfield 155 (OT, elim)
Princess Anne 225, Ocean Lakes 150 (elim)

Princess Anne 230, Henrico 185 (elim)

Maggie Walker 250, Princess Anne 190 (elim)

Maggie Walker 230, Thomas Jefferson 215

Maggie Walker 225, Thomas Jefferson 180 (elim)

6,045 points over 15 matches (403 combined ppg)

Combined scores were a record for Group AAA and 2nd highest ever for Groups A and AA.

Ugliness (by anyone's standards) included the "axes/axis" question, my assertion that Maury High School is in Portsmouth, and the apparent imbalance of directed rounds in the first match.

Zip Zap Rap Pants · Post by **Zip Zap Rap Pants** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:17 pm

By the way this only makes a difference in stats maybe, but the Mathews-Radford game was not technically decided by OT. It was decided by a replacement question (replacing tossup 4) at the end of the match, so only 50 questions were read.