Best Teams In The Country '06-07?

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Post by mentalchocolate »

Dorman is definitely the best team I have seen this year. But, I have not seen any of the MD/DC teams...yet.
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Post by kdroge »

I heard a mention of Troy earlier, and I wouldn't count them out at all. They are returning their top two players who work really well to cover all of the major areas, and they have a lot of experience. Aside from that, I don't know how strong the rest of Michigan is unless GPN or DCC have some unknown players emerge for them.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I thought Catholic Central won some stuff in Kentucky this year.
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Post by emactruman »

Catholic Central has beaten Troy head to head
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Best Team...at least in the SE

Post by Rountree »

Dorman (SC) is easily the best team in the entire Southeast, and that includes MO and KY. They have lost only 1 game this year (to MLK A) and have since beaten that team handily. They are the real deal. Mr. Huff has done an excellent job putting together another buzzsaw team. Of course it really helps that everyone on their A Team has been to an ACE Camp at least once, if not more. And, to top it off, 3 of their A Team players are juniors! They are scary good! And they will be for quite some time. Any team that beats them has some serious knowledge because they aren't apt to beat themselves.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Dorman would slaughter any team from Missouri (as they have).

It's so funny. Some local people i know say "Ladue beat NKC. Dorman beat NKC. Ladue could probably beat Dorman." which is just hilariously inaccurate.

Of course Ladue is good (I'm still not certain they are better than us. We'll see as we play them more) but Dorman is phenomenal. The catch is: they are more phenomenal on harder questions. At Vandy we played them on Friday and we were actually ahead most of the game (I should note that it was late and Dorman was misfiring lots) when the questions were not difficult. However, the finals had much harder and more obscure (in terms of high school) questions and Dorman went nuts with them.

I think the fact they are so good at hard questions portends well for them at Nationals.
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Post by quizbowllee »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:Dorman would slaughter any team from Missouri (as they have).

It's so funny. Some local people i know say "Ladue beat NKC. Dorman beat NKC. Ladue could probably beat Dorman." which is just hilariously inaccurate.
Yeah... Dorman's only loss came to MLK A, who Brindlee Mountain is 4-0 against this year. But, I don't think we would beat Dorman A. I mean, we're 2-1 against Dorman B! I didn't know that Dorman had so many juniors, though... That makes me worried. My whole "A" team is juniors, and I was hoping that next year might be their time.

But yes, from what I have seen, Dorman is very likely the biggest contender for the NAQT and/or PACE titles this year.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Correction: we are 1-2 against Dorman B.
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Post by Byko »

Lee, when are the three times you guys have played Dorman B? I know there was one in prelims at UT-C and one in playoffs at Vandy--when was the third?
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Post by Magister Ludi »

Dorman has expressed interest in playing in some tournaments in DC Metro area and I'm very interested to see how they will play at GSAC.
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Post by Magister Ludi »

against teams like TJ, State College, and Stuyvesant. (Unfortunately we and RM won't be able to come to GSAC due to an It's Aacdemic taping.)
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Post by quizbowllee »

Byko wrote:Lee, when are the three times you guys have played Dorman B? I know there was one in prelims at UT-C and one in playoffs at Vandy--when was the third?
We played Dorman B twice at Vandy. The first time we defeated them by 20 points. The second time was in the quarter-finals (an elimination round) and they beat us by 5 points. I believe that they came back from a 190 point deficit to win by 5 on the last question. It hurt. But, it was impressive.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:I think the fact they are so good at hard questions portends well for them at Nationals.
For PACE yes, for NAQT maybe so maybe not. If RC had gone to NAQT last year RM might have still won. Playing at PACE vs. playing at NAQT is like night and day when it comes to the playoff rounds (not to take anything away from NAQT; it's good to have one national title more speed based).
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Post by jbarnes112358 »

Maggie Walker's GSAC tournament provides some insight on some national caliber teams. As far as I know, this was Dorman's and Chattahoochee's first tournament play this year against some of the mid-Atlantic power teams, and both teams held their own. After the prelims, Dorman and Chattahoochee were seeded 1st and 3rd, respectively. However, in the semifinals of the playoffs, they lost to State College A and Thomas Jefferson A, respectively. I don't remember the scores of these games, but I believe the scores were reasonably close. Hopefully our TD will post full stats soon. I was able to see both teams in action, and I was not disappointed. They are both excellent teams, and both are capable of high placement at nationals. I would place both teams among the country's best this year, from what I have seen.

By the way, in the game for 3rd place, Chattahoochee overcame a 60-185 deficit at halftime to pull out a 20 point victory. Dorman did not help its own cause with its several negs down the stretch. I understand these two teams have had an ongoing rivalry this year. Does anyone know how they have fared against each other?
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Here are the Vanderbilt results. http://www.vanderbilt.edu/college_bowl/ ... sults.html
Unfortunately, Chattahoochee never played Dorman on the brackets so we can't see how they did against each other.
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Post by evilmonkey »

This previous weekend Troy beat DCC by a sizable margin (465-245).
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Post by vig180 »

Dorman beat Chatt. by a fairly large margin in the finals of our tournament at UGA (NAQT questions). The closest game Dorman A faced was actually against its B team where it just held on to win by 15.
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Post by quizbowllee »

vig180 wrote:Dorman beat Chatt. by a fairly large margin in the finals of our tournament at UGA (NAQT questions). The closest game Dorman A faced was actually against its B team where it just held on to win by 15.
Yeah... I was quite surprised to hear that Chattahoochie beat Dorman. Both times we have played Chattahoochie, it has been extremely close - including one tie-breaker situation. Don't get me wrong, Chattahoochie is an awesome team, but Dorman is absolutely top-notch.

I think if anything, the results of Maggie Walker's tournament show how incredibly "up for grabs" the National Championships might be this year. I think with a good bit of work and some luck, just about any good team might be in contention this year.
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Post by Magister Ludi »

While I think we can't know who the real favorite to win nationals is at this point, I think we can narrow the list down to fewer teams. I would think Dorman, Chat, Gov, TJ, Gonzaga, RM, and State College all have legitimate chances to win.
We will see what happens during the rest of the year, but I know Dorman is coming to UVA's spring tournament and to our(Gonzaga's) tournament, and that should give us a better idea of how they stack up to the rest of the mid-atlantic.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

I wish we could come out to Maggie Walker (and many other VA/MD/DC tournaments). That would have been amazing. Of course we wouldn't have won, but...
Some other teams to look out for at nationals could be:
MLK Magnet (they were seeded ahead of us at Vandy, and Dallas Simons is very good)
Ladue Horton Watkins (that would be an absolute waste of talent if they don't go again)

Others that were good, maybe could go places ot nationals: Johnson Central was good at Vandy. They played a very good game against us.
Indian Springs. They can pull off upsets, although they can also make major mistakes in matches.
I didn't get to see Dunbar A (although we played B) or some of those other powerhouses like Brookwood, Walton, Brindlee Mt., Danville, etc.

Nationals are going to be a mess this year. I can't wait to see this kind of showdown.
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Post by jbarnes112358 »

Just to throw out couple of other names to keep your eyes on.

Raleigh Charter is rebuilding after their national championship team of last season, but they are developing quickly. They can make some noise at nationals.

Stuyvesant is another dangerous team that is capable of beating anyone when they are firing on all cylinders.
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Post by dyetman89 »

jbarnes112358 wrote:Just to throw out couple of other names to keep your eyes on.

Raleigh Charter is rebuilding after their national championship team of last season, but they are developing quickly. They can make some noise at nationals.

Stuyvesant is another dangerous team that is capable of beating anyone when they are firing on all cylinders.
Raleigh Charter definitely kept us on our toes during that 5th place game - as the score indicates, the game came right down to the last question. Katie Huddleston in particular can really rake in the tossups. That they remain this good even after losing three starters (including Will Schultz) should be enough to make anyone nervous. How many of those players are seniors, anyway?

It was TJ A that impressed me the most on Saturday. In our playoff game against them Evan Silberman must have gobbled up 6-7 tossups in the first half alone. "Fast" would be an understatement, and all while keeping the negs to a minimum. Clearly these guys know how to turn it on. Stuy caught up a bit (it ought to be emphasized) but TJ pulled out a 100 point win in the end. Having seen both Maggie Walker, SCAHS, and RM play, I would definitely put TJ in their company. At any rate, the game they played against Stuy was the best I've seen this year.

So far as my own humble squad is concerned...well, we'll see. My recklessness with the buzzer certainly didn't help us in the prelims (buzzing fever infected my normally cautious teammates as well, albeit to a lesser degree, and doubltess due to my own poor example.) My own priority as captain has become shutting myself up a bit (perhaps a device that administers a painful electric shock for every neg.) Solving that problem should make Stuy a bit more consistent.

This isn't just bluster: even without Jeff Wu, one of our usual starters and bio-chem guru, Stuyvesant had the highest bonus conversion in the field.
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Post by Daniel_from_Manual »

Manual is totally rebuilding this year; After a full semester, I think we've pretty much resigned this year.

Next year will be much better, but then again after that, it looks extremely questionable.

All my votes go to Dorman; At ACE they fielded some amazing players, and I've only heard good things about them so far this year.
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Dor-dor-dor-dorman...

Post by Tobamese »

Yes, man, everything I've seen of Dorman this year is pure, unadulterated FIRE!. I can't believe they're a young team. Man...the future is bleak for teams not willing to work their butts off.
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Re: Dor-dor-dor-dorman...

Post by STPickrell »

Tobamese wrote:Man...the future is bleak for teams not willing to work their butts off.
This is, I suspect, the case in any sport or activity.
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Post by Lapego1 »

From Gonzaga's tournament, we've learned that the chatter about Dorman is not unfounded. They knocked off Richard Montgomery in the semis, who, as far as I know has only ever lost to State College and Maggie Walker all year. And all of their losses (I think) have been decided on the last question, while Dorman managed to clinch the win earlier. In our final match against them, they impressed me most with a broad and deep knowledge of literature and geography. They will definitely be a force at nationals. I look forward to seeing them at more VA/MD area tournaments.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

This may go over like a lead baloon, but would anyone be interested in compiling a list of the top 20 teams in the nation, in no particular order. Or at least a list of 20 teams to look out for. Just for the heck of it.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

Since I posted the above, I guess I should give some ideas. Here goes (I don't have time to actually put 20 together, based on who I've seen play, and who is obviously getting the job done even though I don't see them:

-Maggie Walker
-Dorman
-State College
-Richard Montgomery
-TJ (Alexandria, not Joplin)
-Chattahoochee
-Stuyvesant
-Gonzaga
-Brindlee Mountain (or at least they seem to have the potential)
-MLK from Nashville
-Danville

I sthis by any means definitive? Of course not. Those are just people that I've seen/heard of and am throwing out for consideration.
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Post by Byko »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:This may go over like a lead baloon, but would anyone be interested in compiling a list of the top 20 teams in the nation, in no particular order. Or at least a list of 20 teams to look out for. Just for the heck of it.
Oh sure, I'll bite. After all, I've been working on some sort of mathematical quiz bowl rating system that's based exclusively on wins and losses and not using margin of victory. I won't spill details now, but I'll at least throw out, in alphabetical order, my top 20 at this point:

Central Gwinnett (GA)
Charter School of Wilmington (DE)
Chattahoochee (GA)
Danville (KY)
Detroit Catholic Central (MI)
Dorman (SC)
Eden Prairie (MN)
Georgetown Day (DC)
Gonzaga (DC)
Governor's School (VA)
Livingston (NJ)
MLK Magnet (TN)
North Kansas City (MO)
Raleigh Charter (NC)
Richard Montgomery (MD)
Santa Monica (CA)
State College (PA)
Stuyvesant (NY)
Thomas Jefferson (VA)
Troy (MI)


Please note the following regarding this list:

1. This is only an approximation, and naturally, it is only as good as the results that I am able to see online or that have been sent to me. While it can be interesting to see standings from prelims from a tournament, unfortunately, that doesn't give me information about who defeated whom, which is essential to calculating rankings in this process.

2. No, I will not release the rankings list or the methodology behind it until after the entire season (including nationals) is over. This is a test--this is only a test, and this is for entertainment purposes only. Seriously, though, this is just an experiment to see how things would pan out this year and to see if there is viability to it.

3. There are some teams that are actually ranked higher but have not played a sufficient number of games or have played against "connected" opponents to allow for an accurate rating. Again, the more data I can receive regarding which teams defeat which other teams, the better it can be.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Byko wrote:
charlieDfromNKC wrote:This may go over like a lead baloon, but would anyone be interested in compiling a list of the top 20 teams in the nation, in no particular order. Or at least a list of 20 teams to look out for. Just for the heck of it.
Oh sure, I'll bite. After all, I've been working on some sort of mathematical quiz bowl rating system that's based exclusively on wins and losses and not using margin of victory. I won't spill details now, but I'll at least throw out, in alphabetical order, my top 20 at this point:

Central Gwinnett (GA)
Charter School of Wilmington (DE)
Chattahoochee (GA)
Danville (KY)
Detroit Catholic Central (MI)
Dorman (SC)
Eden Prairie (MN)
Georgetown Day (DC)
Gonzaga (DC)
Governor's School (VA)
Livingston (NJ)
MLK Magnet (TN)
North Kansas City (MO)
Raleigh Charter (NC)
Richard Montgomery (MD)
Santa Monica (CA)
State College (PA)
Stuyvesant (NY)
Thomas Jefferson (VA)
Troy (MI)


Please note the following regarding this list:

1. This is only an approximation, and naturally, it is only as good as the results that I am able to see online or that have been sent to me. While it can be interesting to see standings from prelims from a tournament, unfortunately, that doesn't give me information about who defeated whom, which is essential to calculating rankings in this process.

2. No, I will not release the rankings list or the methodology behind it until after the entire season (including nationals) is over. This is a test--this is only a test, and this is for entertainment purposes only. Seriously, though, this is just an experiment to see how things would pan out this year and to see if there is viability to it.

3. There are some teams that are actually ranked higher but have not played a sufficient number of games or have played against "connected" opponents to allow for an accurate rating. Again, the more data I can receive regarding which teams defeat which other teams, the better it can be.
Just to argue our case at Brindlee Mountain, we are 4-0 against MLK this year...

Though, the only other team on that list that we have played is Chattahoochie, who we are 0-2 against. One loss on a tie-breaker, the other one very close at Vandy.
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Post by jbarnes112358 »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:
-Maggie Walker
-Dorman
-State College
-Richard Montgomery
-TJ (Alexandria, not Joplin)
-Chattahoochee
-Stuyvesant
-Gonzaga
-Brindlee Mountain (or at least they seem to have the potential)
-MLK from Nashville
-Danville
I have seen the first 8 on your list, most multiple times, and I agree that they are top 10 caliber teams. I predict that many of them, if not most of them, will finish in the top 10.
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Post by Byko »

quizbowllee wrote:Just to argue our case at Brindlee Mountain, we are 4-0 against MLK this year...

Though, the only other team on that list that we have played is Chattahoochie, who we are 0-2 against. One loss on a tie-breaker, the other one very close at Vandy.
I don't really have much in the way of results from Alabama. I know I've seen a few tournaments where there has been a list of the top 4 teams, but unfortunately, that isn't much for me to go on. If you have more details and could e-mail them to me at [email protected], that'd be great. Again, the more data I have, the more accurate the end product.
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Post by Lapego1 »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:-Maggie Walker
-Dorman
-State College
-Richard Montgomery
-TJ (Alexandria, not Joplin)
-Chattahoochee
-Stuyvesant
-Gonzaga
-Brindlee Mountain (or at least they seem to have the potential)
-MLK from Nashville
-Danville
I'd probably add Wilmington Charter, North Kansas City (you were probably just being humble), Raleigh Charter, possibly some California team (such as Santa Monica), and an Illinois team or two (some combination of Wheaton North, Maine South, and New Trier) to your list. Also, what ever happened to Shady Side? I know they did really well at nationals (HSNCT) with some underclassmen last year and then they seemed to have just disappeared.

Here's another question to look at: who fields the best B-team? In our area, Thomas Jefferson and Richard Montgomery are always pretty good, though that can often depend on the lineup. From what I've seen abroad, Dorman B has also placed pretty consistently.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Lapego1 wrote:
charlieDfromNKC wrote:-Maggie Walker
-Dorman
-State College
-Richard Montgomery
-TJ (Alexandria, not Joplin)
-Chattahoochee
-Stuyvesant
-Gonzaga
-Brindlee Mountain (or at least they seem to have the potential)
-MLK from Nashville
-Danville
Illinois team or two (some combination of Wheaton North, Maine South, and New Trier)
Just a note: If Illinois is mentioned at all, Bloomington definitely has to be on the list, at least.
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Post by AKKOLADE »

If I took & counted votes, would people be interested in a Top 25 poll for the nation?
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Post by DumbJaques »

Polls are always cool
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Post by Gonzagapuma1 »

of course
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Post by dschafer »

The only potential issue with such a poll would be the regional nature of high school quiz bowl; I'm not sure how easy it is to rate teams that one hasn't seen. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how the poll results turned out as compared to the results at the various national tournaments.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

yo how come the college poll died? didn't only a handful of people submit rankings last year? I guess that's the main reason...
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Post by AKKOLADE »

dschafer wrote:The only potential issue with such a poll would be the regional nature of high school quiz bowl; I'm not sure how easy it is to rate teams that one hasn't seen. On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how the poll results turned out as compared to the results at the various national tournaments.
They've always been for entertainment purposes, as without buiilding a panel that is knowledgeable enough to vote on many teams it's difficult to produce accurate rankings. Since this'll be an open vote, it's just for fun.
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Post by quizbowllee »

I think that a poll would be interesting, but very difficult to do. So many votes will come from the Mid-Atlantic area where there is not much knowledge of other regions. Furthermore, it would be difficult for me to rank teams such as TJ, Richard Montgomery, etc. without having seen them firsthand. I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread somewhere and post relative information about each team that might make the top 25. We could all look at the relative data and make a determination based on that. We need to look at tournaments won, who beat who head-to-head, etc.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

In that poll, would someone be interested in "who individually are the best?" also? That would be harder to make, although there could at least be some list of "people to look for."
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Post by Matt Weiner »

charlieDfromNKC wrote:In that poll, would someone be interested in "who individually are the best?" also? That would be harder to make, although there could at least be some list of "people to look for."
Gee, did you have someone in mind?

Speaking just in an advisory role here (as any poll will be done as Fred's personal project and not endorsed by the site or by me personally) a major problem with the original poll was people placing way too much stock in "teams that they have seen." That's a poor metric anyway since your sample size is going to be small no matter what, memory is faulty, and in most cases it translates to "assuming the team I coach or play for is awesome and ranking anybody who has beaten us in the top 10 since you must be super-awesome to do that."

I would prefer people completely IGNORE their personal experiences and just vote based on the standings and numbers they have seen on this site, since that is a much more fair comparison. The ideal voter would be someone with a lot of knowledge about what tournaments are good, who is willing to spend a lot of time looking at all the results he can find posted here, but who hasn't seen any important high school matches this year.
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Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

THe unfortunate fact about regional bias is that truthfully some regions are simply stronger than others. The Wash U tournament, while it had phenomenal questions, had no real competitive field other than a few teams. The TJ or Gonzaga (or even Vanderbilt) tournaments, by contrast, attract many, many, many good teams. SO a team that has poor stats at one of the tourneys over in DC might actually have phenomenal stats at a different tournament, out of that area. Regionalism isn't a great thing, but based on previous nationals results it gives more credence to regionalism. That's why it happens. Regionalism might actually be legitimate in some ways, although it's certainly not great to assume that just because someone's from DC they are superior.

-EDIT- I would be really surprised if I actually were the top nationals player. I doubt I would be, especially at PACE.
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AKKOLADE
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Post by AKKOLADE »

Matt Weiner wrote:Speaking just in an advisory role here (as any poll will be done as Fred's personal project and not endorsed by the site or by me personally) a major problem with the original poll was people placing way too much stock in "teams that they have seen." That's a poor metric anyway since your sample size is going to be small no matter what, memory is faulty, and in most cases it translates to "assuming the team I coach or play for is awesome and ranking anybody who has beaten us in the top 10 since you must be super-awesome to do that."

I would prefer people completely IGNORE their personal experiences and just vote based on the standings and numbers they have seen on this site, since that is a much more fair comparison. The ideal voter would be someone with a lot of knowledge about what tournaments are good, who is willing to spend a lot of time looking at all the results he can find posted here, but who hasn't seen any important high school matches this year.
Everything in here is absolute, 100% truth.
charlieDfromNKC wrote:In that poll, would someone be interested in "who individually are the best?" also?
I'm not going to be doing that, simply because there will be too many people receiving votes.
brownboy79
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Post by brownboy79 »

Referring to individual players:
Wouldn't the best ranking be a peer system? That is, have a large group vote for say, 50 people to vote. Those 50 could vote for whomever they choose on a monthly basis. That would be relatively easy? Maybe? I'm just shooting out an idea, disregard it if it's stupid.
EricLeMaster
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Post by EricLeMaster »

I really don't think you can do it any way and it be accurate...

I know there will be really good teams out there who aren't mentioned and should be. Not everybody has played everyone else to know...
catsasslippers
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Post by catsasslippers »

Anyone who would vote in this poll is reading the forums, and while not having played many of teams could influence your answer, there is certainly enough information and there are certainly enough stats to make a fairly informed decision as to who the national contenders are.

Also, it would be a poll. I think it would be done more out of curiosity than accuracy.
Byko
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Post by Byko »

Trevkeeper wrote:Just a note: If Illinois is mentioned at all, Bloomington definitely has to be on the list, at least.
I'll say it here: right now in the rankings, they'd be close to top 20. The data right now indicates they're the best team in Illinois.
Dave Bykowski
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