New York/New Jersey 2006-07

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New York/New Jersey 2006-07

Post by Sir Thopas »

Hey, a fella can dream, can't he? ;)

In all seriousness, I expect Stuy to do well at Nats again. Not sure about many other teams in the state.
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Re: New York 2006-07

Post by dyetman89 »

metsfan001 wrote:Hey, a fella can dream, can't he? ;)
Indeed ;) I've been doing a good deal of it myself.

Well, there is Kellenberg, which is probably the best and most active team on Long Island, and the organizers of the LIFT tournament. They do what they can - fairly well - but whether they can be a national force, or contenders at Yale, Princeton, or Harvard, is far more doubtful.

The other Long Island schools do not field quiz bowl teams of any seriousness - they come out of their respective dens for LIFT in the fall, but that's pretty much it. Last autumn, you had your typical Long Island/upstate schools - Ward Melville, Smithtown, White Plains, a mysterious entity called "North Shore", and so on. Of course, Bergen County came over, as did Wilmington Charter - needless to say it was a bloodbath. I doubt those poor, poor LI teams have yet recovered from the terrific beating they suffered at the hands of those two out-of-staters. It's really a question of the pool of talent you have to draw on and the dedication the team itself (to say nothing of the administration itself) has to playing this game. The Long Island schools (alas!) seem to have neither. Ces't la vie.

White Plains is still active last time I checked. Not a bad team - they did okay at LIFT 05'. But forces to be reckoned with - that can do well at nationals, and place at the top of major east coast invitationals? That can play Bergen Academies, and Wilmington Charter, and Stuyvesant, and now Hunter, and the DC-area beasts - and hold their own? Nah.

Bergen Academies is a whole 'nother story. We scrimmaged against them at nationals (they were a standby team) and they are excellent, and, as things stand at this moment, as good as any team in the Northeast (State College excepted). The games were close, the team is well-balanced and deep, and their performance at LIFT was impressive. They're a team to watch, and very closely.

Hunter is brand-spanking-new - and young - but already they play better than most NY/New England teams. The team is still incubating on the Upper East Side - yes, they are that new - but by the time they make their tournament debut in the fall they will be a sight to see. I predict nothing but the best for Hunter next year - the Northeast is coming alive in a big way.

Much as I hate to boast of my own humble team, Stuyvesant is going to be infinitely better than we were last year. Many more dedicated players, much more money, yadda yadda. I'm looking forward to killing a few giants.

As David Riley pointed out, NY has always been a gerrymandered quiz bowl state. To make a very bold prediction, I think the advent of teams from Hunter and Stuyvesant may in fact change the whole dynamic of quiz bowl on the East Coast. My fingers are crossed.
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Re: New York 2006-07

Post by Sir Thopas »

Yeah, I suppose this thread can really apply to the entire Northeast, but I can't edit the title anymore, so whatever.
dyetman89 wrote:Hunter is brand-spanking-new - and young - but already they play better than most NY/New England teams. The team is still incubating on the Upper East Side - yes, they are that new - but by the time they make their tournament debut in the fall they will be a sight to see. I predict nothing but the best for Hunter next year - the Northeast is coming alive in a big way.
Now, now. I doubt that we're nearly good enough yet to make a splash yet. I haven't been to LIFT yet, so I really have no idea how the field really is; I guess we'll see soon enough how we truly shape up to the rest of the field.
dyetman89 wrote:As David Riley pointed out, NY has always been a gerrymandered quiz bowl state. To make a very bold prediction, I think the advent of teams from Hunter and Stuyvesant may in fact change the whole dynamic of quiz bowl on the East Coast. My fingers are crossed.
If we can just get more tournaments in the area I'd be content for the time being.
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Re: New York 2006-07

Post by dyetman89 »

metsfan001 wrote:Now, now. I doubt that we're nearly good enough yet to make a splash yet.
What I mean is, I've played against a number of these local teams, and researched the past scores of those i have not (LIFT being the main source). You simply play better than most of them. It's easy to make a splash when the other rocks are pebbles.
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Post by Sir Thopas »

Mildly tangential comment: does anyone find it odd that New York schools often fare quite well in Chip's tournaments, but don't hold a candle to decent teams in NAQT and other, more legitimate (if you will) formats?
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Post by Dan Greenstein »

metsfan001 wrote:Mildly tangential comment: does anyone find it odd that New York schools often fare quite well in Chip's tournaments, but don't hold a candle to decent teams in NAQT and other, more legitimate (if you will) formats?
Perhaps more outreach needs to be done to expose them to these other formats.

Perhaps more teams from the region would become more competitive from those of the other regions if they played in more tournaments throughout the year.

Perhaps these teams need to be persuaded to attend these "more legitimate" national tournaments so they see the best teams in the country and develop aspirations to better themselves.
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Post by Byko »

Dan Greenstein wrote:Perhaps more outreach needs to be done to expose them to these other formats.
I think this is the main issue. Supposedly, when a team made a comparison between Chip's questions and NAQT questions at a tournament up in that neck of the woods this year, Byram Hills's coach (yes, the NAC champion Byram Hills) replied, "What's NAQT?" That says it all.

Again, I'll be heading up to New York at least once or twice next season, and LIFT is high on my list. Brother Nigel, if you happen to read this, let me know what the date of your tournament is and I'd be happy to come up there and help staff.
Dan Greenstein wrote:Perhaps more teams from the region would become more competitive from those of the other regions if they played in more tournaments throughout the year.
It's a blessing and a curse on Long Island (from what I've heard, so not firsthand knowledge) that Les Roby, White Plains's coach, runs 5 tournaments a year. I think it's great to provide local teams with several different opportunities to compete without having to travel a long ways or pay a lot, as budgets can easily get in the way. I would encourage a greater variety of formats for tournaments in the region so that teams can try them easily and make judgments as to what they prefer.
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Post by bigtrain »

Half Hollow Hills West is pretty good but I believe they lose their full A team this year.
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Post by dyetman89 »

Good catch with Half Hollow Hills West. I'd seen their results from Princeton's fall tournament and wondered just who they were. But there's the rub. Though good, they are not nearly as active as one would expect a fine team to be. That's New York for ya.

I may be pushing my luck attempting to squeeze yet another New Jersey team into a New York thread, but since Guy has opened it up to include the Northeast, I feel compelled to include what may be the best team east of the Delaware (and certainly in the Garden State): Milburn. I really have no idea who they are, but I did see them play at nationals - weird and wild stuff, as I'm sure others can attest. I do know they played startlingly well at Princeton, but aside from that zero. Very mysterious and, in a quiz bowl-ish way, frightening. Anyone in the know care to enlighten the curious?
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Post by Sir Thopas »

I don't know anything about Millburn, but perhaps it's worth mentioning that their entire (A) team consisted of seniors this year at HSNCT.
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Post by Dan Greenstein »

I changed the name of the thread so New Jersey discussion would be germane ex post facto.
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Post by SHP Pirate »

Having competed against Millburn numerous times, I can tell you that they were an outstanding NAQT team. Their main threat, Harold, was alarmingly fast with a breadth of knowledge unseen in the Garden State in the past several years. I know that they placed 2nd at Rutgers NAQT in October (losing to Wilmington Charter), 2nd at Princeton in November (losing a close match to State College A in the finals), they won the NJ State Championship in March, then beat us (Seton Hall Prep) at a local NAQT at Columbia HS in March as well. (We were able to beat them several times throughout the year, but usually in four-quarter format) That being said, with Harold and the rest of the A team having graduated, I wonder how good they will really be next year. Our entire A-team graduated, but the core of our B-team,with an outstanding sophomore, remains intact. Most of the other competitive teams in the state (Pingry, Bergen County, Livingston, High Tech.) have also lost a number of seniors. It looks as though next year will be a re-building year state-wide.
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Post by yoda4554 »

I grew up on Long Island and played quiz bowl my last two years there. The problem is certainly not a lack of interest or teams, it's merely that there's a self-sufficient circuit there that's pretty divorced from the national qb scene (or even anything out of state-- I'd never heard of the White Plains tournaments), between the two major leagues I knew about and the local TV show. But I remember something on the order of 70 teams between the assorted leagues when I played four years ago. Here's what I can find of the current state of the circuit among the two that have websites (the third was an It's Academic chapter that had, IIRC, a handful of teams not involved in either of these two, and run by a guy named Doug from Garden City who seems to have retired):

http://www.regionalquizbowl.org

http://www.powertolearn.com/challenge/lic/index.shtml

Apparently LIFT was going on while I was in high school. I never knew about it. I don't know if that's the problem of Brother Nigel for not advertisting to us or our adviser for not taking us.

LI's produced a number of decent college players (Peter Stone of MIT and Steve Melendez of Harvard come to mind) who didn't totally distort the game in high school, so I don't think the problem is that there's no talent there. The problem at NAQT events is likely more that LI is used to short questions, riddles and trick questions, lots of general knowledge, etc. in its major formats. It's a pretty major change to adjust to. If there were a larger presence of NAQT tournaments, I expect that Kellenberg, Smithtown, Melville, and HHH would do fairly well.
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LIFT VI

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LIFT is cosponsored by Kellenberg and Northport HS. A month before the scheduled date, we send out over 300 snail mail invitations directly to the quiz bowl coaches of - every Long Island HS, many NYC HS, and a fair amount of schools that we know participate in quiz bowl in the tri-state area - and beyond. We also post on the NAQT website, as well as the World of HS Quiz Bowl tournament listings.

We have been using NAQT for the last 3 years - the only tourney on LI to do so. We have also had around 30 teams for the last 3 years - a number I would LOVE to increase (wouldn't any Quiz Bowl sponsor?)

We offer 6 untimed prelims, followed by a single-elim playoff - depending on field size. Our trophies are large and impressive, we give a trophy to high PPG, and a special Halloween related gift to the high "neg" based on the prelim games. We (something we are particularly pround of since we so rarely see it) also have a continous computer projection of current standings updated after every round - to make sure we/you catch any mistakes before we announce the rankings for the playoffs.

LIFT VI, using NAQT, is tentatively scheduled for Oct. 28, 2006. See you there? Spread the word!!

P.S. IMHO, it's the coaches who don't want to give up their Saturdays.
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Post by First Chairman »

What has been the challenge of increasing the number of teams at your event? (I'll admit, this is a topic I am contemplating to do for a future PACE Special Discussion.)
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Post by Sir Thopas »

Brother Nigel: Hunter will almost certainly be at LIFT, whenever it is!
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Post by dyetman89 »

Brother Nigel: Stuyvesant would of course love to attend LIFT and compete against our tri-state brethren. As of this moment, however, Oct. 28 is also the date of the University of Virginia's fall tournament. It's early yet, and these dates are always in flux, but if things work out as they did last year (both falling on the same date), Stuyvesant would probably choose UVa. A tough choice, as I would love to go to both. We shall see how things work out in the end.
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Post by Sir Thopas »

What? :< Aww, that'll be a tough decision.
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Post by dyetman89 »

metsfan001 wrote:that'll be a tough decision.
Amen. But UVa. historically has some of the finest competition anyone could ask for. It would be good, I think, to haul our newer players down and have them compete against the best in the nation - hopefully inspriring them to work like dogs to better themselves. Plus, we veterans would like to get as many shakes at said teams as we can ;)

That's not to say LIFT isn't a fine tournamet - indeed, from what Brother Nigel has said it sounds excellent. My mind is tied up like a pretzel at the thought of choosing! I can only hope something gets switched about, but if not, ces't la vie.
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Post by bigtrain »

Its great to see someone from Stuy join the forum and for the school to start a competative team. Maybe Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech will create teams soon. All 3 have the caliber of students to field very strong teams. I even have some friends at Horace Mann who say they have a team over there, but they aren't on the team so they couldn't elaborate on their level of activeness. A more active NAQT circuit in the NYC area would be extremely positive for the national circuit.
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Post by Sir Thopas »

(Someone from Hunter is attempting to field a competitive team as well. Sorry, it's just a bit frustrating that you mentioned the other 3 of NYC's "big four" public schools and left out one of the two that has already started a team in earnest.)
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Post by dyetman89 »

bigtrain wrote:Maybe Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech will create teams soon. All 3 have the caliber of students to field very strong teams. I even have some friends at Horace Mann who say they have a team over there, but they aren't on the team so they couldn't elaborate on their level of activeness. A more active NAQT circuit in the NYC area would be extremely positive for the national circuit.
Horace Mann, so far as I am aware, does not compete on the NAQT circuit. I agree very strongly with everything you've written - my coach, her associates, and other members of my team with more "connections" than I are attempting to get Brooklyn Tech and Bronx Science to start something, and it would be wonderful if Horace Mann would come to a few NAQT tournaments. Hunter has a brand new team, of course. But the untapped talent in the NYC specialized schools is a source of continued frustration for me, so I'd love to see some new programs come out of all this.
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NAQT Tournaments in New York City

Post by Anaranjado »

Joel Gluskin and I are looking to hold two NAQT tournaments in New York City this coming year, probably one A-level tournament and a state championship. We are currently looking for a host site. Please contact him (jagluski -at- yahoo -dot- com) or me (jakeller -at- eden -dot- rutgers -dot- edu) if you are interested in hosting or have any information that might help us out.

Thanks,
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Post by Sir Thopas »

Sweet. I believe Stuy is hosting a tournament in February as well (regular IS, I believe). Unfortunately, I don't think Hunter is quite ready to host a tournament yet.
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Post by VornVolken »

I'm representing Columbia HS, which isn't one of the top schools in the region, but we sure hope to be!

Anyway, not to try and hijack this thread, but can anyone tell me what's happening with the Rutgers tournament?
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Post by dyetman89 »

Last I heard, the Scarlet Knight Invitational was scheduled to go off on November 11th. E-mail me if you would like the registration form.
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Post by Sir Thopas »

So you guys certainly seemed to have quite a showing at TJ. How will the JIAT have shaken up the NY area, if at all?
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Post by btressler »

Here's the short version of yesterday's SKIT at Rutgers:

1. Livingston A
2. Charter A
3. Bergen A
4. Charter B
5. McNair A
6. Kellenberg A

Others in attendance not in the top bracket: Millburn, Ranney, JP Stevens, Colonia, and a few I forget.

I was quite impressed with Livingston's team. The match between 1 and 2 came down to the last five tossups, of which Livingston powered several.
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Post by catsasslippers »

I simply could not watch the New York/ New Jersey thread die. Douglas and I were worried it might be archived if something wasn't posted soon.

So, has anyone heard about the New Rochelle Tournement. I am beginning to think it is a myth, although I'm hoping it isn't.
So, news anyone?
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Post by Byko »

I'm also curious about what happened about a month ago at HHH West. I heard last weekend that Livingston continued their very strong season and won the tournament. Anyone have full results (playoff bracket and/or prelim results)?
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Post by DumbJaques »

I haven't heard about Stuyvesant doing much lately, and I heard from various (and likely mostly unreliable) sources that they were having internal issues or something. Confirm/deny/speculate baselessly?
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Post by catsasslippers »

I am from Stuyvesant. The reason we haven't been attending tournements is budget issues mainly.
As for internal issues, I'd rather not comment. Who were these sources exactly ?
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NY/NJ Lives On

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catsasslippers wrote:I simply could not watch the New York/ New Jersey thread die. Douglas and I were worried it might be archived if something wasn't posted soon.

Thanks! This website has been so encouraging for me, a relative newbie to the QT circuit. Through the advice on the site, I've been able to plan our own tournament on April 21st (the "infamous" Geek Wars... my students named it). I've had a great response for a first tournament in a tournament/QT scarce area: we're already up to 13 teams and the registration deadline is still a month away.
catsasslippers wrote:So, has anyone heard about the New Rochelle Tournement. I am beginning to think it is a myth, although I'm hoping it isn't. So, news anyone?

I received an email at the end of January stating it had been cancelled. Too bad, my students were looking forward to something somewhat local.
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Post by dyetman89 »

White Plains appears to be extremely active with regard to hosting - don't they host around four-five tourneys per year? Still, I've never heard of them hosting an NAQT or NAQT-style one, but then again the Westchester circuit is something of a mystery to me, so anything's possible.
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Post by Byko »

dyetman89 wrote:White Plains appears to be extremely active with regard to hosting - don't they host around four-five tourneys per year? Still, I've never heard of them hosting an NAQT or NAQT-style one, but then again the Westchester circuit is something of a mystery to me, so anything's possible.
I had run into Les Roby, White Plains's coach, about 4 years ago and he said pretty much the same thing: he runs 5 tournaments a year. Pretty much all of them use questions from :chip: but that seems to be fine for many of the area teams there.
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Post by VornVolken »

Results from Princeton should shake up this thread a little. :grin:
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Post by First Chairman »

As long as those participating at Princeton decide to post up. :cool:
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Post by Byko »

I'm not surprised to see Stuyvesant and Gonzaga in the final four at Princeton. Columbia--well, I don't know enough about them yet. Pingry? At a non-QU tournament? Very interesting. Not seeing Livingston in the final four REALLY is a surprise to me.

Yes, I definitely want the full stats and results.
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Post by VornVolken »

Really? We (Columbia) beat Livingston 400 to 200, or something like that.

I mean, we've never beaten them before, but yeah afterwards our game vs. Kellenberg was much closer, decided by 1 tossup.

We lost to Pingry twice, both close games that could have been decided by 1 tossup.

I think things have changed a little since November. Gonzaga was the obvious favorite, almost going undefeated and not even from NY/NJ. Stuyvesant...well, what do you expect from a Magnet school?

Pingry? Yeah I didn't expect them to be that strong. Or Kellenberg either. But then I guess it seems like we came out of nowhere too(because we really did...our senior team graduated but we got a team together that was actually a lot better than last year's). But you won't be seeing too much of us...darn budget issues.
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Livingston POV

Post by Cassius614 »

I'm from Livingston, so I can update what we've been up to. We did in fact win the HHH tournament, though I cannot recall the other teams up in the top brackets, since it was a while ago.

We lost out as either the sixth, seventh, or eighth place team at Princeton after losing to Stuyvesant (by a mere 10 points, it was a GREAT game) and then Columbia in the double elimination.

At Millburn (QU style), Pingry beat the stuffing out of us, which was definitely interesting - I wish they'd show at Nationals - the field has increased, so go register!! But Bergen, the other Jersey team to be in the Nationals field thus far, has been pretty good recently. But Pingry at Nationals would be interesting.

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Central NY Update

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We had an ok turnout for our "Geek Wars"-- Cooperstown had three strong teams, although Ellenville beat them in the championship after a tie at the end and a sudden death tie-breaker. My own Dolgeville came in third... I was hoping for better. :roll: Mohawk did ok, as did Kingston, even though all their math/science talent was at a different competition.

I'm excited Cornell will be hosting a tournament in the fall. I was thinking of moving Geek Wars to Columbus Day for next year, but won't now that I know Cornell claimed that day. Is turnout fair for fall tourneys? We've only attended ones in the spring.
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Post by btressler »

The Long Island tournament is worth it if you can go (held at Northport, cohosted by Kellenberg). It's usually the last Saturday in October.

This year they had 50 teams.
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Post by Byko »

Stat74 wrote:The Long Island tournament is worth it if you can go (held at Northport, cohosted by Kellenberg). It's usually the last Saturday in October.

This year they had 50 teams.
I'll second that--especially considering the challenges of a late start because of the horrible weather (thus helping to delay two schools who brought about 10 teams in total), the tournament actually finished on time. Major kudos to Brother Nigel on his job with that tournament--it might be the best-run tournament I've been to this season.

I've also heard very good things about Half Hollow Hills West's tournament in early January--I'm thinking that my wife Jessie and I will be really trying to make the trip up for that tournament. I've heard they get close to 100 teams each year--any tournament that can do that and run reasonably well definitely deserves praise.

I'm curious--what other kinds of events are there in upstate New York? I know I've seen a couple of upstate New York teams go to nationals before, but it's a part of the quiz bowl world I know very little about.
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Post by STPickrell »

Byko wrote:I'm curious--what other kinds of events are there in upstate New York? I know I've seen a couple of upstate New York teams go to nationals before, but it's a part of the quiz bowl world I know very little about.
I did a Google on "Scholastic Bowl" once and found an article about a league around Batavia (between Rochester and Buffalo.) One of the schools in it was my father-in-law's alma mater.
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Post by Zip Zap Rap Pants »

Anyone know much about Bergen's team this year? Matthew Tobin from BCA might come to W&M next year.
Matt Morrison, William & Mary '10, Tour Guide &c., MA in History '12?

"All the cool people eat mangoes while they smoke blunts and do cannonballs off a trampoline into my hot tub..."
-Matt Weiner

“In beer there is strength,
In wine is wisdom,
In water is germs.”
-Unknown

new email: mpmorr at email dot wm dot edu
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