Alabama '05-'06

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Post by Captain Sinico »

Please stop being a terrible poster, Grissom_is_better_than_yo.

MaS

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Re: a few things to clear up

Post by quizbowllee »

Grissom_is_better_than_yo wrote:First of all, Quizbowl Lee this is for you...Saying that CCA's team is the best in years is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS (Though you kind of backed off the statement in your next post...but reffering to me, Shiva, and my team 2 years ago is nonsense, because there were a string of captains before me, reaching back about 4 years that were flat out better than I was my senior year)... Did you ever see either Daniel Thomas or Blake Stacey (now at harvard and MIT respectively) play Quizbowl??? How about imagining them together. I've played CCA's team (though 2 years ago) and they are NOTHING compared to the grissom team 5 years ago with Daniel, Blake, Jerry, and Robby. Daniel and Blake were soooo good, they made it to Disney World (won ASCA) during their FRESHMAN YEARS!!!!! so before you go asserting that you've seen the end all-be all of Alabama academic teams, do some history homework, and basically admit that every grissom team that won (with the exception of my team 2 years ago that barely won) is probably better than the CCA team right now, and I'm not even bragging
First, welcome back to the board, Shiva. And, by all means, please tell me how you feel.

But seriously, I'm not denying that Grissom has been awesome. Did I see Daniel Thomas play? Yes. In fact, I played against him - and beat that team more than once in my career. Also, though I graduated in 1999, I had the pleasure of seeing my Alma Mater, Arab High, BEAT Grissom (with Daniel as a Senior) at District that year. Granted, they got their revenge on Arab at Regionals, but still...

I'd actually venture to say that the BEST Grissom team I remember was the 1997-1998 year. That year they had Jacent, Chris Jao, and two others whose names escape me.

So, to answer you, I have seen Grissom at their best for the past 10 years... And CCA is better than those teams of Grissom's past.

I base this on a few factors. First, I fully admit without hesitation that Grissom has proven absolutely dominant in ASCA over the past decade. However, they never attend other tournaments. Alabama has maybe a handful of teams (at best) that can compete on a National level - and Grissom has proven that they are one. However, they've never taken the initiative to play outside the state - except in the ridiculous Panasonic Tournament in Disneyworld.

However, CCA has ventured outside of the state and has proven themselves against teams far superior to most Alabama teams. This year, in fact, they went to Vandy and were seeded #1 in a field of dozens of teams - that included Walton, Dorman, Dupont Manuel, Dunbar, etc. They seem to have faltered in the semi-finals, but being seeded #1 in that field is ultra-impressive.

You contradict your argument about them. You said that you played them two years ago (when they were sophomores) and they weren't that impressive. You then go on to comment on how much better juniors and seniors are than freshmen and sophomores.

I saw CCA when they were sophomores, too. They were good, but not great. However, they appear to be one of the most dedicated teams out there, and have improved exponentially since that year. Trust me, Shiva, they are scary good.

Do I think that they will win state? If I HAD to choose a team (over the field), they would be my pick. However, they do seem to have bad luck at times - so you never know. They have a long road ahead, due to being in the District and/or Region of Grissom, Brindlee Mountain, Cullman, Bob Jones, and Randolph. It won't be easy for any of those teams due to the highly uneven power at the various districts and regions.

Basically (and this is not a dig against Grissom, but against the ASCA format), Grissom has proven only that they are dominant in one of the absolutely worst quiz bowl formats in existence. Granted, it improved 1000% when Jim Garrick took over writing in 2004. But, in the years prior to that, ASCA questions were written by Patrick's Press, Champion's Quiz Prep, and Questions Unlimited... and the questions were terrible.

CCA has proven good at ASCA, but also won the NAQT State Title last year. They've proven dominant in various tournaments on pyramidal questions that test knowledge more than quick recall. Grissom hasn't done this yet. I think that Grissom would do great at these tournaments, but they continue to hide behind the ASCA format that they do - without a doubt - dominate.
Grissom_is_better_than_yo wrote:I'd also like to say that there is a HUGE difference between Juniors and Sophomores, marked especially by a huge jump in intelligence and confindence in buzzing (and i can make this claim based solely on Grissom kids, including the jumps in buzzing that Daniel Thomas, Jerry Hsu, Robby Scott, me, and Steven Searcy made their junior years...and since they were basically one of the best teams in the state for about 7 years in a row, i'd say any trend coming out of Grissom is a trend anyone can assume is true)...Also there is no way any sophomore has had any Econ, Government, US History, BC Calc, or Physics, things that Seniors should have learned or are learning in some class by the time they enter tournaments, another HUGE advantage for upperclassmen in quizbowl (There is a reason most state winners have had seniors as Captains)...
OK - I've caught crap for my statements about differences in upper and lower classmen. Let me re-state my position. Yes, in most teams, the Seniors are much better than the freshmen. However, I was thrust into a situation where I had nothing but Freshmen last year, and I needed to prepare them to compete against the best quiz bowl teams' upper-classmen. Had they had Economics? No. US History? British Lit? Am. Lit? Government? No. Did they beat over 90% of the teams they played who HAD had those classes? Yes.

Why? Because I know this game. I know what they need to know, and I make sure - to the best of my ability - that they know it. So, I guess my point is that the difference between upper and lower classmen IS huge in most cases. However, a good coach (and here I sound as pompous as I usually come across), can almost eliminate that parity. I think that Brindlee Mountain has done more than enough to prove that.

So, Shiva, in conclusion, I mean no offense to you or to Grissom. However, you DARED me to contradict you, and I felt up to that challenge.

Best,

Lee
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Post by steven-lamp »

bigtrain wrote:GRISSOM IS GONNA FEENIS EVERYONE'S TODDS!!!!!! No, really man, they are. :eyebrow:
Nice call, big train. That is the exact phrase that came to mind after reading his post.

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Post by quizbowllee »

steven-lamp wrote:
bigtrain wrote:GRISSOM IS GONNA FEENIS EVERYONE'S TODDS!!!!!! No, really man, they are. :eyebrow:
Nice call, big train. That is the exact phrase that came to mind after reading his post.
OK - I'm out of the loop... What is this and what does it mean?

Also, Roll Tide.
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Post by steven-lamp »

There was an idiotic poster who was from DCC (I don't even think he played on the team) who came on here after a tournament they won and said something to the effect of "HAAHHAHAHA ALL OF YOUS JUST GOT YOR TODDS FEENISED" or something, and I don't think anyone knew what the hell he meant, but it sure is funny to make jokes about, because that kind of a statement is one you would likely hear from an arrogant retard at the Special Olympics.

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Post by ASimPerson »

Shiva, dude, he did say the best in years. Blake and Daniel were pretty good - having two of the state MVPs on one team was nothing short of impressive. However, as you said, that was 5 years ago - a long time in the HS quizbowl world, I'd wager.

This CCA team is scary good, as I said above - I moderated a few matches for them. Compared to the teams we played on back in the day, they would've beaten us pretty good on any sane format, but they were just starting out my (and yours? I don't remember) senior year. Would that Grissom team have beaten them? Probably - CCA has one great guy and some good other guys (I dodn't notice a definite #2 man), but that 2000 Grissom team had two great players. But all we can really make are subjective comparisons - the ASCA questions have changed very radically since them and Grissom doesn't go anywhere (they may've gone to Vandy that year, but I don't remember) so it's hard to tell. It'd probably be a close match on some good questions. But, that CCA team is very good and has to be favored to every tournament they enter in Alabama.
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Post by quizbowllee »

ASimPerson wrote:Shiva, dude, he did say the best in years. Blake and Daniel were pretty good - having two of the state MVPs on one team was nothing short of impressive. However, as you said, that was 5 years ago - a long time in the HS quizbowl world, I'd wager.

This CCA team is scary good, as I said above - I moderated a few matches for them. Compared to the teams we played on back in the day, they would've beaten us pretty good on any sane format, but they were just starting out my (and yours? I don't remember) senior year. Would that Grissom team have beaten them? Probably - CCA has one great guy and some good other guys (I dodn't notice a definite #2 man), but that 2000 Grissom team had two great players. But all we can really make are subjective comparisons - the ASCA questions have changed very radically since them and Grissom doesn't go anywhere (they may've gone to Vandy that year, but I don't remember) so it's hard to tell. It'd probably be a close match on some good questions. But, that CCA team is very good and has to be favored to every tournament they enter in Alabama.
Actually, Nick, what makes CCA even scarier is that they DO have a #2 man in Matthew Hitt. But, he wasn't even there at UTC that day. At NAQT State last year, I believe that Matthew and Carter (their captain) had identical ppg. In fact, I believe that they were scorers numbers 3 and 4 respectively out of a tough field of teams.

So, you have to imagine that team that performed at UTC plus basically another player as good as Carter, only with a completely different - and complementary - knowledge base.
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Post by DVader »

Yeah, CCA is scary good and their performance at the big regional tournaments shows that we have a lot to reckon with in them. I don't know if they're the best team in years (can't comment on Grissom five years ago but the Robbie and Shiva teams I played were amazing in both knowledge and comeback ability). On the other hand, it's still very early in the season. We've all seen teams that started out hot and crashed and burned come springtime. Teams that own up in the first half and get crushed in the second. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the clash at Brindlee Mountain. It's the first tournament this year with most of the state's power teams competing, so it should help settle some debates on strength this year and open up a boatload of new ones.

On a side note: Did anyone watch the Jeopardy college championship this week? Adam Pinson of UAB (former Bevill State and Pinson Valley Quiz Bowler) won his quarterfinal game. Any of y'all play him or know anything more about him?
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

I, believe it or not, saw him in Memphis during his tryout. He played with my good buddy Chris Pace at Bevill, and he was a very good player, and a very nice guy to boot. I hope he wins the thing...
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Post by DVader »

Were you trying out too Slade?
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Post by quizbowllee »

I know Adam very well. In fact, he read at our tournament here at Brindlee Mountain last year - and I'm hoping he will be here again this year.

I played against Adam in college a few times, he's a great player and a really great guy. I wish someone had told me he was playing - his match was one of the very few episodes of Jeopardy I have missed in the last year. Hopefully I'll get the call soon and you guys will be able to see me choke in front of 3 million viewers :oops:

Also, I wanted to comment about David looking forward to the "clash" at Brindlee Mountain. I think the word "clash" accurately describes what is going to transpire. We have a pretty small field of teams right now, but they are some elite teams. Here is the field thus far:

Confirmed:

Altamont
Sandrock
Buckhorn
Covenant Christian
Cherokee A
Cherokee B
Brindlee Mountain A
Brindlee Mountain B
Austin A
Austin B
LAMP
Indian Springs
Mountain Brook A
Mountain Brook B
Walton (GA)
East Webster (MS)

Also, I have heard from these teams and am awaiting confirmation:

Arab

So, as you can see, this is going to be a SERIOUS battle. I still haven't decided on format, so any suggestions will be taken into consideration. I'm really leaning AGAINST a single-elimination final with this powerful a field, especially since bids to both NAQT and PACE are at stake. Expect two or three pools in the prelims, followed by a round robin among the top teams from each pool.

Also, Neel, is there any chance we can convince Grissom to come? I'd love to see you guys in this field on NAQT questions. Brindlee Mountain is only about 30 minutes away from Grissom's parking lot...

Also, if anyone else wants to come, please let me know ASAP. You can get me at [email protected]
Last edited by quizbowllee on Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:45 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

DVader wrote:Were you trying out too Slade?
Yep...I actually was one of the nine people who made it out of my room, but, alas, they didn't choose me. Oh well, at least somebody from Alabama is representing us well.
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Post by Neel6989 »

I'll ask my coach.

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Re: a few things to clear up

Post by fancynancy »

Grissom_is_better_than_yo wrote: Daniel Thomas, Jerry Hsu, Robby Scott, me, and Steven Searcy
Shiva = you?

I'm assuming...
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Re: a few things to clear up

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fancynancy wrote:
Grissom_is_better_than_yo wrote: Daniel Thomas, Jerry Hsu, Robby Scott, me, and Steven Searcy
Shiva = you?

I'm assuming...
Grissom_is_better_than_yo wrote:reffering to me, Shiva, and my team 2 years ago is nonsense

I would say so, nancy...
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Post by DVader »

Adam won again on Jeopardy, so he'll be playing in the finals tomorrow and Friday against the guys from Stanford and Wash U in St. Louis.

Anyone going to Buckhorn on Saturday or Austin on the 10th? We won't be going to Buckhorn because of conflicts with Thanksgiving break and a conference in Atlanta.
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Post by First Chairman »

And I know who won (because I was there :) :) :) ).
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Post by quizbowllee »

Out of curiosity, how long ago was Jeopardy filmed?

Also, to answer David, from what I saw, Buckhorn looks tough. Brindlee Mountain, Cullman, Covenant Christian, and Bob Jones are all going to be there...

Brindlee Mountain will also be at Austin on Dec. 10, but I don't know what other schools will be there.

-Lee
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Post by wwellington »

I think October 4th and 5th?

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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

wwellington wrote:I think October 4th and 5th?
It was the 1st and 2nd...at least that's what they told us in Memphis.
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Post by wwellington »

Yeah, that's right. For some reason I thought the 3rd was a Friday.

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Post by quizbowllee »

For what it is worth (and in case you didn't notice), as the field for our tournament on Dec. 3 is changing, I am updating it on the post above.

Also, if there is anyone who is willing to come read for us at this tournament, I'd be forever in your debt...
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Post by steven-lamp »

If Guntersville isn't too far from T-Town, I might be able to drive up there to read.

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Post by quizbowllee »

Stephen, I'd REALLY appreciate that - but it's about 2 1/2 hours from Brindlee Mountain to Tuscaloosa...

Also, I just got an e-mail from ASFA's coach - it turns out they are not going to be able to make it.... That's really too bad, they definately added a lot to the strength of the field.
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Post by Neel6989 »

So, I saw Carter at some piano recital today. Turns out he's not only an amazing quiz bowler but also one of, if not the best junior pianist in Huntsville.

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Post by quizbowllee »

Neel6989 wrote:So, I saw Carter at some piano recital today. Turns out he's not only an amazing quiz bowler but also one of, if not the best junior pianist in Huntsville.
That's cool. I always had a theory that musicians made better quiz bowl players. :wink:

Interestingly, though, that actually kind of surprises me, because I don't remember CCA getting very many of the music theory questions that have come up when I've seen them play...
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Post by quizbowllee »

Results from Buckhorn:

1st - Covenant Christian
2nd - Bob Jones
3rd - Brindlee Mountain
4th - Cullman

More forthcoming - when I get over a massive migraine.
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Post by Hobodog »

Congrats on the Buckhorn placing Lee. Im sorry we (Mountain Brook) couldn't bring a full team. (Shouldve made playoff anyway. We managed to answer twice as many tossups as both other teams we lost too but lightninground and bouceback nailed us. Just awful on our part on those accounts. 7 questoins to two in a second round and get beaten by 60 points in that round. Awful. Might've been better had we not answered any questions.)

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Post by quizbowllee »

Hobodog wrote:Congrats on the Buckhorn placing Lee. Im sorry we (Mountain Brook) couldn't bring a full team. (Shouldve made playoff anyway. We managed to answer twice as many tossups as both other teams we lost too but lightninground and bouceback nailed us. Just awful on our part on those accounts. 7 questoins to two in a second round and get beaten by 60 points in that round. Awful. Might've been better had we not answered any questions.)
Thanks. There's one thing you guys might need to work on - just something I noticed that WILL cause you trouble in the future. You guys talk out loud A LOT during questions, even tossups. Several times on the math questions, you guys would say "Now I know what to do..." or something along those lines. If you had ever gotten one of the tossups on which this happened, our team captain would've protested it. Also, on one bonus on chemical symbols, the young lady on your team blatantly turned around and stared at the Periodic Table on the wall behind us...

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but you really need to watch out for those things. Speaking during a tossup, even if its to yourself and yields no information at all - will constitute conferring and would result in you losing the opportunity to answer said tossup.

Other than that, I was pretty impressed with your team. My guys had a pretty big lead against you, but you slaughtered them in the 15-pointers. If you had played that well the whole match, you probably would've won. I'm sure that if you had a more stable practice schedule, you would be a power to be reckoned with. Keep it up.

Looking forward to seeing you guys (at full strength, I hope), at our tournament on Dec. 3. Also, try to join ASCA. The format is kinda weird, but its fun all the same.
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Post by Hobodog »

I apologize for the periodic table thing. I think I saw that happen. (I was captain.) Yes we do talk alot. Our team, shall we say, lacks discipline. I think it partly stems from the fact, that for some reason, the way our Scholar's Bowl works it enourage iinformality and such. If the other team had protested an answer I suspect we wouldve changed our ways but nonetheless thanks or the tips. Ill work on it (afterall I'm often the main culprit, though it didn't help my teammate and his masochistic tendencies when he fails to know something he should.) Ill see you at your place soon. Can't wait to make the journey. You have any tips on how to get there from B'ham?


Also. I think part of the problem, for myself at least, it that once again I am not playing on a team that has a chance at state because once again we aren't registered with ASCA. Its unfortunate. I had always hope to make state since Junior High. We always thought that our senior year we had a chance to be among the best (because in JH we had always been the best). It's not fun getting passed by everyone else because your team isn't at all dedicated and plays secondfiddle to debate. (which in turns doesn't give me much incentive to be as dedicated as I wish I was.)

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Post by quizbowllee »

I know exactly how you feel. When I was in middle school, we won the ASCA State Championship (Arab Jr. High - 1995) - I'm getting old...

Anyway, when I went to Arab High, we had a different "coach" (note the quotes). We never practiced, and she didn't want to take us to any tournaments that weren't on weekdays because she had "better ways to spend her Saturdays."

Needless to say, we sucked. I tried really hard to carry the team, but just couldn't. We made it to regionals every year, and made it to state once, but never had a chance at a title. Though, we did manage to beat Grissom at least once a year.

Anyway, that's why I'm such a hard-core coach. I want to be the kind of coach that I wish I had had. The kids seem to respect that, and obviously it's paying off. They're doing great - and my starters all have two more years after this one.
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Post by Hobodog »

Yah. I saw how young your team was, impressive. Either way, despite the fact that we play second fiddle to debate we have a more or less unlimited budget. I mean its not completely unlimited, but we can travel anywhere we want within the state and, if we could get 4 or 5 dedicated people to commit early, anywhere out of state. It dissapoints me that we can't get a new coach hardcore enough to take advantage of this and make us into a winning team. Then again, I can't blame it on this years coach because she is really trying. Its just that she has to be lax if she wants people to attend practice at all (for seniors and juniors to attend atleast). I think she is working to instill work ethic in the sophmores so we can better establish the team. Bad thing for the team is though, her husband is in grad school, so unless he stay here afterwards we will have even more turnover. I almost wish we had the evil hated nazi coach we had 2 years ago. (Ultra-feminist nut who really only personally asked mostly Jewish kids to try out and instituted a 4 absence (excused, unexcused)and your off the team which devestated our JV team because of all the debators and people participating in school musicals and plays alot.


I loved Junior High rounds. I remember once time when we racked up 35 in the first round, about 200 in the second, a perfect lightning round, and 8 out of ten in the fourth against Pizitz in Vestavia at a friendly. Final score for us was something like 485 to 90. (of course pizitz teams weren't very good back then.) The ASCA tourney was during some school function that year though. So we didn't get to make it. Was a real bummer.

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Post by quizbowllee »

I was going to elaborate a little about the Buckhorn tournament.

The tournament was very well run. There were a few hose questions, but not too many. For the most part, the questions were excellent (for ASCA). The multimedia worksheets were great. The worksheet is usually completely useless, but using the multimedia like that made it worthwhile. I'd love to see that become the standard in the future.

Covenant Christian continued to steamroll everyone they played. Unfortunately, Brindlee Mountain was seeded such that we played CCA in the semi-finals. We traded leads a few times, but they pulled ahead and won 335-225. It's going to be tough for any Alabama team to take them down this year.

Cullman was killing us in the consolation, but Andy had a great run in the 15-pointers. By answering the last tossup, we beat Cullman by 5.

Anyway, good tournament. We'll definately go back next year.
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Post by Hobodog »

Yeah. I do remember one round that started out with like 4 hoses in the first five questions. Bad hoses too. The reader displayed in interesting amusment at the questions and remarked about how he wishes he had written questions this hard. I wanted right then to say that the hoses were just crap questions that weren't designed to go to the better team. Either way, other than that one packet in the first round I thought the questions were really good.

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Post by STPickrell »

quizbowllee wrote:The one area where this deficit definately does hurt us, as stated before, is in math. I would go so far to say, though, that if I as coach could remember how to do some of the math, I could probably prepare the team. Most teams share the weaknesses of their coach - and Brindlee Mountain is no exception. I used to be a math whiz in high school, but I finished my required college math courses when I was in 11th grade, and over the last 9 years, I've completely forgotten everything..
Lee,

Have you considered asking one of the math teachers that owes you a chit or two to help you out for a week or two in that area?

Regarding the math whiz thing, isn't it amazing how math knowledge pretty much disappears?
Shawn Pickrell, HSAPQ CFO

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Post by DVader »

Good luck to all the teams at Brindlee Mountain on Saturday. I wish I could be there but extenuating circumstances prevent it. On a side note, which teams are going to be at Austin next Saturday?
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Post by AndyShootsAndyScores »

Brindlee Mountain is planing on going to the Austin tourney.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Results from today's 2nd Annual Tournament at Athens State University:

1st - Brindlee Mountain
2nd - Bob Jones
3rd - Cullman


The folks at Athens had a GREAT tournament today. The questions were excellent. All questions were completely pyramidal, no hoses, and no math computation. It was nice to go to a tournament in Alabama that resembled what the rest of the nation considers "Quiz Bowl." I wish there were more tournaments like this one....

Anyway, we'll see how things go tomorrow at our NAQT tournament here at Brindlee Mountain.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

There is a tournament during a school day? How many teams attend?
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Post by quizbowllee »

We have a lot of our tournaments on Fridays. Most of the time, its a college that hosts them. They usually draw the biggest turn-outs, because everyone (including teachers) love getting a day away from school!

There were 18 teams at Athens State today. However, I've seen Friday tournaments with 40 or more teams.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

That's nifty. We went to a tournament on a Friday once, but it was more of a Trivia Bowl thing than a Quiz Bowl Tournament.
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Post by DVader »

Austin Invitational Results:
1. Bob Jones
2. ASFA
Semifinalists: Florence, Cullman (there was a consolation game but I don't know who won)

High Scorers
1. David John Gagne, ASFA
2. the Cullman Captain
3. Andy Knowles, Brindlee
4. Andrew Santi, Bob Jones

The tournament went pretty well, overall outcome notwithstanding. We arrived without two of our starters, including our best math guy, but we didn't let that get us down. Our only loss came with Brindlee Mountain A. At the end of the round robin, we, Brindlee, and Bob Jones each had one loss in a circle of death, so it came down to differential, leaving us and Bob Jones in the playoffs from my pool and Cullman and Florence from the other. We played Cullman first and had a pretty close game going until the last bonus about questions from the citizenship exam. One question (I'm guessing I can talk about it since this was not a NAQT or other repeated packet tournament) asked about the first country to establish a permanent colony in North America, so of course I answered Spain. But their answer was England, so I protested and argued with the moderator that Spain kinda had an empire in North America when the English built Jamestown, but lost to the paper, making me a little irked. I released my anger by getting 8 of the 10 questions in the 15 point round. In the finals we faced Bob Jones again. They played a strong game and kept it close the entire time, beating us by 10 points in the end. This was the first time Bob Jones has won a tournament in 2 and a half years and the first time they've beaten ASFA with me playing. Congrats to them and the semifinalists. My only problems with the tournament were the England question and the ones that said spinster, not bachelorette, is the female form of bachelor, and one where velocity was not the relationship in physics with distance over time (speed was the answer, which is true, but velocity should also have been accepted IMHO). Other than that decent questions overall.
David John Gagne,
University of Oklahoma

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Post by dtaylor4 »

DVader wrote:Austin Invitational Results:
1. Bob Jones
2. ASFA
Semifinalists: Florence, Cullman (there was a consolation game but I don't know who won)

High Scorers
1. David John Gagne, ASFA
2. the Cullman Captain
3. Andy Knowles, Brindlee
4. Andrew Santi, Bob Jones

The tournament went pretty well, overall outcome notwithstanding. We arrived without two of our starters, including our best math guy, but we didn't let that get us down. Our only loss came with Brindlee Mountain A. At the end of the round robin, we, Brindlee, and Bob Jones each had one loss in a circle of death, so it came down to differential, leaving us and Bob Jones in the playoffs from my pool and Cullman and Florence from the other. We played Cullman first and had a pretty close game going until the last bonus about questions from the citizenship exam. One question (I'm guessing I can talk about it since this was not a NAQT or other repeated packet tournament) asked about the first country to establish a permanent colony in North America, so of course I answered Spain. But their answer was England, so I protested and argued with the moderator that Spain kinda had an empire in North America when the English built Jamestown, but lost to the paper, making me a little irked.
Isn't St. Augustine the first European settlement in what is now the United States?

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Post by quizbowllee »

David, congrats on the placing. Also, congrats to Bob Jones. I wish Brindlee Mountain could've had some more points and made the play-offs, but sometimes it just doesn't go our way.

The tournament itself was good. I thought it was well-staffed. One complaint would be that the pools were VERY uneven, but that is a result of random draw, so no one is to blame there.

However, David, you said that (with a few exceptions) that the questions were "decent overall." Come on! Let's call a spade a spade. The questions were terrible. Mrs. Giguere, the tournament director, even told me that the questions were terrible and that she can't believe she paid money for the garbage. Guess who wrote them, folks? :chip: :chip: :chip:

I had heard tales. I had even seen sample questions - but you haven't experienced bad quiz bowl until you have played on Chip Beal questions.

Here are some examples:

There was a bonus that read "Identify the female equivalents of the following masculine nouns."

a) Bachelor

Of course, we say "Bachelorette," which is obviously correct.... Alas, though, the answer is actually "spinster." This actually made me choke on the ice that I was eating. I nearly died because of this question. After my coughing spell, I said to the moderator: "So, you are actually telling me that the female version of a bachelor is NOT a bachelorette?" He replied "His sir, that's what I'm telling you." To which I then retorted "OK, I just wanted to hear you say that..."

First tossup of the tournament:

"The first well-documented naval battle in history, it took place in 480 bc.." Of course, Andy buzzes and says "Salamis." In any respectable tossup, that would be correct... But not according to :chip: The question goes on to say:

"The first well-documented naval battle in history, it took place in 480 bc. This battle, Salamis.. blah, blah, hose, hose."

Answer: Athens

First tossup of round 2: "In 1598 France's King Henry IV..." Mark buzzes here and says "Edict of Nantes," like any good player should. However, the answer was "Huguenots."

Throughout the course of the day, we also had tossups on sardines. Another asked in what building did various presidents sign different documents... (It was the White House).

We also had a few questions like: "What American author lived from year x to year y?" That was the whole question. No works, nothing. Just the years they lived...

I'm not blaming the questions for us not making the playoffs... Everyone had the same bad questions. But they were bad - very bad.

Anyway, Mrs. Giguere said that they will be using NAQT questions next year! This is a huge victory for Alabama quiz bowl! If only we could get some more support for pyramidality...
Lee Henry
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West Point High School
Cullman, AL

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Post by DVader »

So those were Chip questions. That explains a lot.
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Post by quizbowllee »

So, how did the LAMP tournament go today?
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Post by DVader »

Well, we went undefeated in the round robin and got 3rd seed overall in the playoffs. Then we won our first playoff match but lost in the quarterfinals to Woodham from Florida on the last question because their captain suddenly went on fire that round and turned the momentum against us. We had beaten them in the preliminaries but couldn't pull it off in the playoffs. The semifinalists in our pool were Apollo and Woodham but I don't know who the other semifinalists or winners were since we didn't stick around. The questions were generally good although they varied in difficulty from round to round (I'm guessing the students wrote them). The format they used was also kinda weird (10 10-point tossups, a 20 question worksheet, then 10 10-point tossups with 20-point bonuses) and did not flow too well in my opinion. On the other hand, we had really good moderators during the round robin. Although I'm disappointed in our placing, I still enjoyed the tournament.
David John Gagne,
University of Oklahoma

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2006 LAMP Scholar's Bowl Varsity Results

Post by jwoolley »

#1 seed Apollo (KY) defeated #10 seed Woodham (FL) and #2 seed Indian Springs (AL) defeated #4 seed Oak Mountain (AL) in the varsity semifinals. In the championship match, it was tied after the worksheet round. Indian Springs took the lead at the start of the toss up/bonus round and it was passed back and forth twice, before Apollo got three of the last four tossups, as well as 60 bonus points, and won 205-155.

1. Apollo (10-0)
2. Indian Springs (9-1)
SF Oak Mountain (8-1)
SF Woodham (6-3)
QF Briarwood A (5-3)
QF Covenant Christian (5-3)
QF Hoover (6-2)
QF ASFA (7-1)

Janice Samford and her crew ran an excellent tournament!

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Post by bdavery »

Far be it from me to praise Chip questions (though he finally did fire the writer who'd been plagiarizing my stuff from the Stanford archive)--and especially those examples submitted. But I have to comment on one statement:

'First tossup of round 2: "In 1598 France's King Henry IV..." Mark buzzes here and says "Edict of Nantes," like any good player should. However, the answer was "Huguenots." '

That looks like the only half-decent question in the bunch. "Huguenots" is a perfectly legitimate direction for the question to go, based on those 6 words. If you honestly think the only possible answer from those 6 words should be "Edict of Nantes", you're flat-out wrong. You should use it as an object lesson for your players (and for yourself) that questions can be indefinite in the beginning and still be fine questions, not hoses.

Obviously, had it begun, "It was signed in 1598 by France's King Henry IV...", that would be a different story. But a skilled writer would put that info a lot closer to the end.
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Post by bigtrain »

"It was signed in 1598 by France's King Henry IV...",
That probably have been a perfectly acceptable question (although Wikipedia says the Peace of Vervins was a document signed by Henry IV in 1598). A question like "In 1598 France's King Henry IV..." is not written well because it does not indicate precisely what the question is looking for before information is given. It could have been Huguenots, the Edict of Nantes, St. Bartholamew's Day Massacre, Catherine de Medici or something else I'm not thinking of.
The question is nearly as bad as this one: "In November of 1963 a shot was fired in Texas..." You don't know what the question is looking for. It could be Kennedy, Connally, Oswald, Zapruder, Dallas, Texas School Book Depository, Jack Ruby, Warren Commission, LBJ or something else. Most good players would want to go in at that point though because they know precisely what is being referred to. We shouldn't have to wait to figure out what piece of information a question wants us to provide while more information is being given out which could clue in the other team.
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