Illinois 05-06

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JWyPlatinum
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apologies

Post by JWyPlatinum »

I apologizing for giving the wrong impression about Smillie. I am Wiley. I loved playing with him. I just figured that others did not like playing against him. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I also apologize for thinking that Vik had graduated. I'm now very scared that he hasn't.

Thank you for being polite in your advice to me.
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New rules

Post by JWyPlatinum »

I read some sort of list of recommendations that I believe that IHSA approved/disapproved. Among them included one that reduced the number of questions at the state final. However, since reading them, I have not been able to find them again. If you know anything about these rumors or can find the list, please tell me. Thank you.
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Post by popculture »

JWyPlatinum said:
Morton's senior, Jordan Wiley, may be able to pull something out of his butt.[quote]

Then, JWyPlatinum said:
I am Wiley.[/quote]

I have always thought that speaking in third person is even more fun when the speaker references their own bowel disorders.
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Re: apologies

Post by dtaylor4 »

JWyPlatinum wrote:I apologizing for giving the wrong impression about Smillie. I am Wiley. I loved playing with him. I just figured that others did not like playing against him.
From my experience, when a team gets thrashed by a better team, the losing team doesn't take it that hard as long as the winning team is gracious and not overtly cocky. I can speak on this b/c I have been on both sides of it (a 410-100 loss at State my junior year and a 525-5 crushing of DePue my senior year).
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Post by Hunterthegreat »

David Riley wrote:Ms. Voorhees is still organizing transortation, etc., but I believe it's a go.
Cool, thanks for the info.
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Re: New rules

Post by Tegan »

JWyPlatinum wrote:I read some sort of list of recommendations that I believe that IHSA approved/disapproved. Among them included one that reduced the number of questions at the state final.
If you prowl around the archives on the IHSA website, you can find minutes from the IHSA Board meetings, and they usually list "approved", "disapproved", and "tabeled" recommendations.

To my knowledge (I was at the IHSA Advisory Committee Meeting in April), there was no proposal to shorten the length of matches. There was a proposal (and I believe it was approved), which now allows for more calculation questions (up from 6 to 8). The proposal was give that it was getting to hard to fit in legit physics and chemistry without having to put in too many noncalculation math, which was getting to be difficult without making the questions too easy.

JW.....you're alright! Personally, I don't think I would have enjoyed playing against John Smillie very often either..... he's pretty darn good!
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rules

Post by JWyPlatinum »

I saw those minutes. That was not the page to which I was referring. There was another page. I don't know. Maybe I was dreaming it up. Regardless, I hope that they do shorten the matches. I realize why they have 30 questions, but if there weren't, Tyler Kerr would not have beat us last year and we would have placed.
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Re: rules

Post by Tegan »

JWyPlatinum wrote:I saw those minutes. That was not the page to which I was referring.
To my knowledge there was no discussion about sortening the matches. It does look like there will be a new sub-sectional added which only affects seeding and some regional assignments. Instead of all 24-40 teams being considered for seeding together, the sectional will be split in half, geographically, and seeding will be done in each half-sectional. This also means that two teams on opposite sides of the sectional are less likely to meet before the sectional (though if one half is really loaded, it means that some deserving teams stay home, and a few more week ones sneak through).
Last edited by Tegan on Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Finally, a positive change probably brought about by someone from my part of the state, probably b/c at our sectional last year three teams within 50-60 miles of each other (Dec Mac, Springfield, C-G) all had to travel overnight to Carbondale. I was used to that kind of travel, but the other two teams probably weren't.
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Post by potato0328 »

I have a question about this new sectional seeding rule.

Does this mean that my school (Fremd) might have to face Stevenson, Hoffman, or Buffalo Grove even earlier (regionals instead of sectionals)? If so, one of us is going to have to take a really tough loss.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Yes I'm interested what that would do to our sectional. Chicago and then non-Chicago, maybe, but I don't think that's quite 50-50.
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Post by Stained Diviner »

Potato is correct. As Mr. Egan implied, this could lead to a less even division of Sectionals into Regionals.

This came about because of a general IHSA policy that affects all tournaments but had not been enforced for Scholastic Bowl for several years. Whenever there is a seeding meeting, there are supposed to be 24 or fewer schools involved. Also, if any Sectional needs to be divided up, then they all need to be divided up. In some ways, this is less fair. In other ways, it is necessary. IHSA has always admitted that its pairings are based on geography.

Seeding meetings take place on a Wednesday night. This past year, Rantoul was in the Carbondale Sectional. If that coach wanted to attend the meeting, s/he would have to drive about four hours each way. Also, bigger seeding groups mean longer meetings, which coaches don't like.

It is too early to speculate on how this will affect individual Sectionals. There is a good chance that there will be a significant change in Sectional assignments this year. The basic idea will be the same, but the teams around Champaign will probably stay in the center of the state. The suburbs could be redrawn to make a North Shore Sectional, or they might not. I hope that we find out about this in early November.

For a full list of changes, consult the newsletter that will come out in the next day or two. (If you are a player, your coach will probably get it.) Most of the changes address things that coaches have complained about for years but that students barely notice. It will be more difficult for the IHSA to make mistakes regarding brackets, the Rule Book, and sending out Regional and Sectional questions. The Rule Book and Sectional Assignments hopefully will be announced earlier this year. The Seeding Meetings, as explained above, will be broken up.

From a student's point of view, the biggest change will be that more of the science questions in the IHSA series will involve calculations. The only other changes you might notice will be that the Regionals may be a little uneven and that there will be a very small number of Interdisciplinary questions. If you were looking forward to a revolution, I am sorry to disappoint.

The other big change that concerns students has almost nothing to do with the IHSA. There will be an Awards Banquet in April at ISU to honor All-State, State Champs, Hall of Fame, and The Friend of Scholastic Bowl.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

ReinsteinD wrote: It is too early to speculate on how this will affect individual Sectionals. There is a good chance that there will be a significant change in Sectional assignments this year. The basic idea will be the same, but the teams around Champaign will probably stay in the center of the state. The suburbs could be redrawn to make a North Shore Sectional, or they might not. I hope that we find out about this in early November.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that there is an extra "level" added to the state series? Instead of going regional-sectional-state would it go regional 1-regional 2-sectional-state?

Let's take the North Shore for example. If the sectional was split up (but still the same overall sectional) into Chicago and Suburban teams, would there be a regional for Chicago and then a regional for the Suburbs, and then the two winners play eachother to determine who goes to state?

Also, if they were split into two entirely different sectionals, would there just be twice as many teams at state, or would there be another level after sectionals but before state, to determine who goes to state?

One of the coaches please correct if I am wrong, which is usually the case. :smile:
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Post by Tegan »

[quote="Trevkeeper]So, correct me if I'm wrong, does this mean that there is an extra "level" added to the state series? Instead of going regional-sectional-state would it go regional 1-regional 2-sectional-state?[/quote]

There is no extra level. The only thing that changes is at the seeding meeting. Instead of all of the coaches in a sectional meeting in one location to seed, the coaches of each sectional will be split into two geographic groups, and meet at two seperate locales. They will seed the top teams at that meeting site, and the teams at that meeting site will be split up (according to seed, and by geography) to two regionals. Each sectional will still have four regionals, but your team will now end up in one-of-two possible regionals instead of one-of-four.

Using last year's sectional in the north suburbs as an example: It is very likely that Loyola nad New Trier would end up in a sub-sectional, while St. Ignatius, Notre Dame, Maine East, and Maine South would likely end up in the other. Loyola and Maine South have been in the same regional for the past three years, but that becomes less likely now.

Again, these are hypothetical outcomes. Nothing is for certain yet.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

A few days ago, I realized I probably should have put Bloomington on my initial top 10, and today's results only confirmed that.
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Post by harpersferry »

judging from the posts i've seen, my team's already won state. Jeez. We made a good showing at the early bird but, man. I'm also scared for our team once the golden couple graduate by the way this conversation is going.

as for the auburn varsity players: tyler, colleen, patrick flannagan, ryan salburg, and myself (john brown) all went to the earlybird. we have a new senior, lindsey and some freshmen whose reputations preceed them. siva sunduram, michael jiang and kendall coates all have won the middle school championship twice. we shall see how much impact the underclassmen (including me) will have. There is a concern of a lack of interest but i think everybody will hang in for the ten month season one last time. Maybe.

And colleen, I've already written my loss of innocence paper, so I'm hoping I won't be expelled from the garden too soon.


As far as other teams go, I am wary of Fremd because of their returning members. There are other schools, but I'm too tired to repeat everybody else.
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Post by potato0328 »

How did the Early Bird go? Does anyone have any added wisdom now? My team wanted to go, but the Homecoming dance was higher on everyone's list of priorities, including mine.
directly from Fremd High School...
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Post by mrs. dalloway »

John...what are you talking about? Loss of innocence paper...what?

The Earlybird was great (check out the thread under Regular Season Tournaments). Judging by that, Loyola, Bloomington, and possibly New Trier will be tough this year, as predicted. (And Auburn, I guess, although I feel odd praising my own team.) Of course, Fremd, Stevenson, Wheaton North, and some other traditionally good teams did not attend. I don't know much about class A, but 'Bago's looking good. Brad Fischer's out for blood as always.
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Post by harpersferry »

never mind, i guess you don't read your old posts colleen. it's a good idea.
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Post by Tegan »

Whoever claimed that the downstate schools never get the attention should have been at the Earlybird, because Bloomington served notice that Purple Brain Eaters have arrived. I would not consider Winnebago "down" state, but they also looked as good as promised. As a matter of fact the top two Illinois finishers were not from 312, 708, 630, or 847.

Aubrun won it, and while the field was small, it was far from weak. I felt just a little bad that the championship was a tie into the last question, with Apollo (from Kentucky) negging the final question. They were a top notch team, and earned their place in the final match. It was definitely one of the best played matches I have seen in a while.
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Post by JWyPlatinum »

First, I must clarify that the information about a 24-question match was from IESA.org and not IHSA.org. I apologize for being stubborn.

Second, congratulations to the downstate force just down I-74. If possible, I would like to know the All-Tournament Team, top TU-person, and how Bloomington individuals did.
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Jordan, I already posted a list of the five top scorers in the Earlybird thread, but I'll put it here too:

1st: Brad (Winnebago)
2nd: Tyler (Auburn)
3rd: Elizabeth (Apollo)
4th: Justin (Carbondale A)
5th: Buddy (Loyola A)

I'm not sure how Bloomington individuals did.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

I don't think there was an all tournament team, at least not to my knowledge.

Top 5 scorers: Brad ('Bago), Elizabeth (Apollo), Buddy (Loyola)...and two others I can't remember. Justin of Carbondale, I think, and maybe Tyler.

We played Bloomington our first match. They were a lot more ready to go than we were, and they were REAL fast, especially their captain (Kristina?). They were VERY impressive.
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Post by Hunterthegreat »

JWyPlatinum wrote:First, I must clarify that the information about a 24-question match was from IESA.org and not IHSA.org. I apologize for being stubborn.

Second, congratulations to the downstate force just down I-74. If possible, I would like to know the All-Tournament Team, top TU-person, and how Bloomington individuals did.
Hunter Fast got 28, Kristina Warren got 25, Mike Lieder got 21. Vikram Karandikar got a lot too, I can't remember the specific number, though. Keldin Sergheyev got a few as well, I believe. I'll get the specific numbers from Mrs. Voorhees on Tuesday. Referring to myself in the third person is fun, I should do this more often.
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Post by harpersferry »

Tegan, I would like to clarify that (1) auburn didn't win on a neg. (2)This thread is not about the early bird. It was a 2/3 series for the championship therefore we had to beat Apollo twice. And we didn't answer the last question intentionally, since after the neg we were winning by 5. There simply was no point answering the easy tossup on the final clue and risking a freak bonus screwup and having to play another match and get home an hour later.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

pasedpawn wrote:Tegan, I would like to clarify that (1) auburn didn't win on a neg. (2)This thread is not about the early bird. It was a 2/3 series for the championship therefore we had to beat Apollo twice. And we didn't answer the last question intentionally, since after the neg we were winning by 5. There simply was no point answering the easy tossup on the final clue and risking a freak bonus screwup and having to play another match and get home an hour later.
Umm, John? You did win on a neg...what happens if the neg doesn't occur? The TU would have been picked up by someone on either team, and regardless of whichever team picks up the TU, it's the bonus that wins the game. So, while you can make the argument that Auburn could have answered it, but it was strategically prudent not to, it stands that Auburn did not have to (but did) win on the neg. It's not like I'm bashing you here, I would have done (and I'm pretty sure I have at some point) the same thing.
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Post by mrs. dalloway »

Um, yeah, John, we did win on a neg.
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Post by Captain Sinico »

I think he's trying to say that, even had that neg not occured, you still might have won, especially given that your opponent had to win another game to take the tournament if they had come out on top after that tossup. Thus the neg and subsequent non-reply on the question were sufficient for you to win, but perhaps not necessary. While all these things are true, they are not, I think, what most people would mean by "didn't win on a neg;" the last buzz in that very excellent match was, in fact, a neg on the final question that untied the score.

Disambiguatin',
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Mike is exactly correct.

And to make this a somewhat less-irrelevant post, how are the stats coming along? No hurry, just curious.

And one last bit, who from Auburn (and, if for some reason Mr. Barry reads this thread, from Brookwood) is going to NT Solo? I'm curious if it's the whole team, or just one person.
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Post by mrs. dalloway »

As of right now, I believe I (Colleen Powers) am the only one from Auburn attending the Solo. Tyler expressed doubts when we discussed it at practice; he's unfamiliar with the Solo, not having heard about it from fellow ACE campers, plus I think he was planning a college visit or something that day. I'm pretty sure Ms. Greene mentioned it to John Brown, but I don't know if he's made a decision.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Well, when Mr. Barry talked about it, I thought he mentioned his captain, who I thought was Rob S., but I'm not sure.
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Post by harpersferry »

Mike got it. I didn't mean to deny that the neg untied the final question. I suppose what I meant was a neg didn't completely decide the outcome. I guess my wording was bad but my point was that the former presentation that he felt bad for a team becasue it was a close game, they're a good team and what not and they lost perhaps not fairly or decicively because the tie was broken by a neg. I just wanted to keep the whole context of the situation in mind (that it was two for three for example) if we're going to talk about it. Talk about it, again, in the wrong thread. This forum is so unorganized.

I also don't wish to take anything away from Apollo because both matches were well played by all. Just clarification that's all.

I don't know if I'm going to try solo or not. Might be fun. We'll see.
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Post by mlaird »

pasedpawn wrote:This forum is so unorganized.
Not so much, in the past we just use the Illinois forum to discuss tournaments from that weekend, how people did, and what ramifications it might have for the future.
pasedpawn wrote:I don't know if I'm going to try solo or not. Might be fun. We'll see.
Try the Solo. It is fun. And you might get some ribbons! or a bowl!
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Solo was fun as hell. The questions were better than most tournaments, and the format was fun (I still have most of my tickets from 3 years of participation). I've wondered if a solo tournament for central Illinois is something that should be explored...
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Post by Tegan »

pasedpawn wrote:I suppose what I meant was a neg didn't completely decide the outcome. I guess my wording was bad but my point was that the former presentation that he felt bad for a team becasue it was a close game, they're a good team and what not and they lost perhaps not fairly or decicively because the tie was broken by a neg.
The neg didn't. When a game is tied at the end, then every single question and bonus part makes the difference. All I was attempting to say was that for two really good and equally matched teams, I hated to see it end with a neg, vs. someone actually geting 10 points. Of course Auburn did the correct thing in not answering. I guess I'm just sentimental or silly for wanting to see a great match between two great teams end more positively (meaning positive points vs. negative points).
passedpawn wrote:Talk about it, again, in the wrong thread. This forum is so unorganized.
This is the thread for Illinois 2005-06.....there has been no real limitation on what can and cannot be discussed regarding events in Illinois for this season. It was the first tournament of the year, and showed a a lot in terms of what teams would be doing this year. I thought, in particular, Auburn, Bloomington, Winnebago, Loyola, and New Trier looked good for the opener.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Tegan wrote: I thought, in particular, Auburn, Bloomington, Winnebago, Loyola, and New Trier looked good for the opener.
Don't forget Carbondale, they were pretty good. Their Captain, Justin, is a great math guy, and solid all around.
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Post by Tegan »

Trevkeeper wrote:Don't forget Carbondale, they were pretty good. Their Captain, Justin, is a great math guy, and solid all around.
My bad completely....they were frosty, and did look good in a pretty tough field to boot.
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Ultima's on Saturday! I'm really looking forward to it.

I'm not really sure if I like the format. It's kind of hard to get used to not even being able to guess...however, worksheets are really cool, they were one of my favorite things at ACE.
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Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Trevkeeper wrote:Ultima's on Saturday! I'm really looking forward to it.

I'm not really sure if I like the format. It's kind of hard to get used to not even being able to guess...however, worksheets are really cool, they were one of my favorite things at ACE.
I must agree with everything you said. Our coach is practically imploding with nervousness at the format, she's never seen anything like it.

I think I'm most looking forward to the ability to challenge answers, even if I don't use it (and looking at practice questions, I don't think I will need to). It's something that I've always supported, and good to see it in at least one tournament this year.

ETA: What's the schedule for Saturday's games, and how many are there?
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Post by Stained Diviner »

If it's similar to past years, and I think it will be, each team plays four matches. Because you play two teams at a time, you end up playing everybody. Each match takes over an hour. The first one will start around nine. The last one will end around four. Pizza will be served in the middle.

Do not be afraid to challenge the questions. I probably wrote the practice questions you used. The questions Saturday probably will come from past Panasonic Tournaments. Expect very few problems with the questions, but don't be surprised if there are some. We won last year thanks to a challenge of a bad math question. Also, pay close attention to the instructions you'll get in the morning. An answer can be 99% right and yet be wrong, especially when it comes to matching and multiple choice questions if you try naming the answers.

Don't get too excited by the worksheets--the match is decided primarily by the tossups.

Because every team there is good, expect close matches.
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Post by Tegan »

A sign as to how this year will be going:

Bonus name the author of: The Yearling, Ariel, Beloved, Invisible Man

No one answers.

ME: I can't believe no one knows the author of Beloved or Invisible Man....that's standard cannon!

Player: Who wrote Beloved?

ME: Toni Morrison

Player: Never heard of him.

:oops: :shock: :cry:

And that was day #1.
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Post by jrbarry »

For whomever wanted to know...Brookwood's team captain, Rob Sale, will be at NT's Solo on Nov 12. The NT folks were gracious enough to allow Rob to compete without an accompanying coach (I will be at the LSU-Alabama fball game!) Rob is as well-rounded a player as I have ever had on one of my teams. I think he'll be competitive with you Illinois folks many of whom I "know" from camp.
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Post by steven-lamp »

Not trying to de-rail the thread, but Mr. Barry I will be in the Alabama student section enjoying myself while my beloved Tide put the beat-down on LSU.
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Post by David Riley »

Egan: That's CANON!!


Look forward to seeing everyone at the Ultima tomorrow! Mr. Reinstein is right: the worksheets are fun, but matches are decided mostly by the tossups and expect a lot of close matches!
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Post by Tegan »

David Riley wrote:Egan: That's CANON!!
Sigh......you mistook me.....I meant that for not knowing something so standard, that I wood shoot them out of a cannon.

You libarians need to Lyton up!
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Post by Trevkeeper »

jrbarry wrote:For whomever wanted to know...Brookwood's team captain, Rob Sale, will be at NT's Solo on Nov 12. The NT folks were gracious enough to allow Rob to compete without an accompanying coach (I will be at the LSU-Alabama fball game!) Rob is as well-rounded a player as I have ever had on one of my teams. I think he'll be competitive with you Illinois folks many of whom I "know" from camp.
I'm looking forward to that. Of what I saw at camp, he was quite the player, so he'll probably do well. Then again, I can also think of two other Brookwood kids who would probably do well at Solo (Julie and Casey). Must be something in the water. :wink:
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Trevkeeper
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Post by Trevkeeper »

Unofficial Ultima Results:

1st- Rockford Auburn
2nd- Palatine Fremd
3rd- Winnetka New Trier

Good Tournament, it was well run, and the moderators were top notch.

We were actually leading Auburn after the 5 and 10 point sections...and then they rattled off 10/11 of the 15 point ones.
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mrs. dalloway
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Post by mrs. dalloway »

You beat me to the punch, Trevkeeper.

Also: Loyola got fourth.

I don't know if you can make IHSA predictions from a Panasonic tournament, but the top four here would probably be my top four for the state right now. Contrary to popular opinion (including mine, previously), Fremd has more than just Beata. From today and the Earlybird, it's evident that Brad Fischer, I mean Winnebago, will be a force to be reckoned with in class A.

Oh, and Trev: you were only leading us by one point. :grin:
"That's the problem with real life. People don't just break into musical song and dance."
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dtaylor4
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Post by dtaylor4 »

Tegan wrote:A sign as to how this year will be going:

Bonus name the author of: The Yearling, Ariel, Beloved, Invisible Man

No one answers.

ME: I can't believe no one knows the author of Beloved or Invisible Man....that's standard cannon!

Player: Who wrote Beloved?

ME: Toni Morrison

Player: Never heard of him.

:oops: :shock: :cry:

And that was day #1.
Was this at practice or at a game? As for canon, at least three out of the four there (Yearling, Invisible man, Beloved) are standard canon.
potato0328
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Post by potato0328 »

Although I had a few issues with format and questions, the Ultima was overall a good experience in my opinion. It's really beneficial to see which of these teams really measure up to being the best in the state, and I would say that most, if not all, proved themselves worthy, especially the top 4. Good luck to all you guys, and I look forward to playing everyone again.

P.S. Have you ever seen that many math questions in your life? Not that I'm complaining as a math peson, but that was even a bit much for me.
directly from Fremd High School...
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