How to pry results out of tournament directors?

Dormant threads from the high school sections are preserved here.
Locked

What's a reasonable amount of time for a TD to take to produce results?

3 days
4
16%
1 week
14
56%
2 weeks
4
16%
1 month
0
No votes
Several months
0
No votes
lim [x->Pi/2] tan x
3
12%
 
Total votes: 25

pakman044
Rikku
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:56 am
Location: Carrboro, NC
Contact:

How to pry results out of tournament directors?

Post by pakman044 »

I have been trying to pry results of North Carolina HS tournaments for quite awhile, but it's seemingly a difficult job to do so. So here's a simple question, how can I actually get them to actually submit results?

When I mean results, I'm not talking about artlike, hand-drawn SQBS results that required twelve stat majors to sacrifice themselves to the Stat Gods. What I would like is (in the following order of priority):
  1. At least who were the top x teams.
  2. What the playoff bracket structure was (who beat whom there).
  3. The preliminary round standings.
  4. Who beat whom in the preliminary round standings.
  5. The scores of all of these games.
Typically, I would think that TD's have to have all or most of these things to run tournaments. You have to know who wins each game to advance people (and of course know the scores). You have to put together the standings to know who advances to the playoffs. You have to know who beats whom in the playoffs. You have to know who you actually gave your trophies to.

But it's still difficult getting those results if you aren't personally there. Now, having helped out a number of tournaments now, I'm quite aware of the demands that are placed on the poor TD's. So of course, it's unreasonable to expect results to be available that night, the next day, or even really within the next few days. Knowing results within, say two weeks, would be a vast improvement over what I have now (not really knowing them at all).

What I suggested in an email to some of my North Carolina teams (and in turn, many of the TD's):
  • Email your digitized results if you have them.
  • Scan in your paper results and email me those if you can.
  • Put your papers in a box, and send them to me (whereupon you'll be reimbursed for postage).
I'm still not sure if any of these steps are going to work. So what else can I do to get TD's to get me results?

One little clause before I throw this open--assume that the results of a given format allow results to be released in full. Only one format in NC really has that prohibition, and I dispute that finding for that format (but that's another discussion).

Patrick King

User avatar
Skepticism and Animal Feed
Auron
Posts: 3200
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:47 pm
Location: Arlington, VA

Post by Skepticism and Animal Feed »

In my brief time being aware of tournaments that I did not go to (which is less than a year), I have found that, typically, you can get the basic results and final standings from players who were there.

My problem has always been with stats. I'd like to see those posted like within the week, during the period at which I still care for/recall the tournament. Of course, that never happens.
Bruce
Harvard '10 / UChicago '07 / Roycemore School '04
ACF Member emeritus
My guide to using Wikipedia as a question source

User avatar
rchschem
Yuna
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:36 am
Location: Durham, NC

Post by rchschem »

Well, speaking as one of those TDs, you might ask. As far as I know I'm the only person who's asked for results on NCATA thus far this year.

That being said, RTO results should be in your hands by now.

As for the rest of NC, I don't think that most coaches are at a point with their teams when real details would be useful. I do a lot of post-tourney analysis myself and so I like to have them. It does require a bit of organization to have them available for public consumption, and many of the tourneys outside of Durham are not that well organized. Our standard for the most part is to finish before sundown. Such is the young state of QB here.

pakman044
Rikku
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:56 am
Location: Carrboro, NC
Contact:

Post by pakman044 »

Yes, and thank you for those results.

I had a conversation Saturday that led me to believe that such results will be more useful in the future. If I start trying to get results now, the TD's MIGHT get into a habit of being nice in the future.

I will say that I've slacked off a bit this year, but last year there were several tournaments that I had the basic feeling that the only way I was going to get information was to march over there in person and ask for it. This isn't the best way to get information distributed, but that's another conversation.

I *was* very impressed by what I saw on the NCATA website as far as results were concerned. Maybe having someone older than 20 asking for results makes it a lot easier!

And FYI, my site lists the more detailed stats for the competitions I have.

So, continuing the discussion, any more suggestions?

Patrick King

User avatar
mentalchocolate
Wakka
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: the thermosphere

Post by mentalchocolate »

This does not exist "lim [x->Pi/2] tan x"
If your intentions were that the results do not exist you are wrong (they just take an infinite amount of time to be posted for some TDs)

Perhaps you should use this as an option "lim [x->Pi/2 from the left] tan x"
That has a solution of infinity

The top's solution is DNE ("does not exist") because the limit as you approach Pi/2 from either side is different (from the left...negative infinity; from the right...positive infinity) there for the overall limit of "lim [x->Pi/2] tan x" DNE

bigtrain
Rikku
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: Bethesda, Maryland-Atlanta, Georgia
Contact:

Post by bigtrain »

mentalchocolate wrote:This does not exist "lim [x->Pi/2] tan x"
As you say, that limit taken by itself does not exist. But in this 'practical' application of pre-calculus(or calculus, I don't remember) it is implyed that you are taking the limit from the left because as far as we know right now, time cannot be passing at any value below zero. Therefore, the only way we could possibly be approaching the time at which the tournament director posts results as represented by the function of tan(x) as x approaches pi/2 would be from a time less than pi/2.
Alex Price
Walter Johnson 2006
Emory University 2010

pakman044
Rikku
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:56 am
Location: Carrboro, NC
Contact:

Post by pakman044 »

Yes, yes, everyone has reminded me that I have forgotten calculus quite well, since:

lim [x -> Pi/2-] tan x = +infinity
lim [x -> Pi/2+] tan x = -infinity
thus since lim [x->Pi/2-] tan x != lim [x->Pi/2+] tan x, limit DNE

It's been quite awhile since I studied limits in any manner besides "multivariable" (don't remember the name) limits from calc 3. And that was nearly 2 years ago!

But you all know what I mean!

PK

User avatar
mentalchocolate
Wakka
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: the thermosphere

Post by mentalchocolate »

Yes, I agree that time may not be negative, but in anycase the limit still does not exist...if they would have taken the absolute value of tan(x) then i would say the limit is infinity. I do not take into account "practicallity" or whatever you call it (mathmatecians certainly don't know what this is and I only after the slightest of understanding of its significance). Also implications are evil and you should never make your own implications or assume as I'm sure many of your math teachers have told you over the years.

bigtrain
Rikku
Posts: 485
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:33 pm
Location: Bethesda, Maryland-Atlanta, Georgia
Contact:

Post by bigtrain »

Edit: This discussion has sucked all the intended humor out of the original post. :roll:
Alex Price
Walter Johnson 2006
Emory University 2010

User avatar
iamsam
Lulu
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 5:51 pm
Contact:

Post by iamsam »

this has gone off on an extreme tangent (pun not intended).
Carpe Cerevisi

User avatar
mentalchocolate
Wakka
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: the thermosphere

Post by mentalchocolate »

Oh, yes...multivariable is lets say "quite fun" especially in all the change of variables and especially teaching your self
you could use a computer application (Maple, Mathematica, etc.) virtually for all of it

Locked