9th Annual ASFA Invitational Results

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9th Annual ASFA Invitational Results

Post by DVader »

Results:
1st: Covenant Christian
2nd: Brindlee Mountain
Runners up: LAMP A and Oak Mountain

I'd like to hear some feedback on the tournament. What did y'all think of the questions, moderators, format, etc? What did you like and dislike and where do you think we could improve for next year?
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Post by PeterGriffin »

Overall, the tournament was great. Most of the questions were pretty good, except for the one period in the championship round where it seemed like every other question was math. Although we did finish 2nd, I do have one complaint about a reader. I don't know what his name is, but he messed up on every question, and hardly knew anything about scholar's bowl. He was the main reason we lost to Decatur by 5. I think he was in either room 243 or 245.
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Post by steven-lamp »

It could have run a little bit faster, but it went fine after the first couple of rounds. The questions were worded a little bit oddly and could have been more pyramidal, but nothing horrible. Overall, though, a good tournament.
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Post by quizbowllee »

After the snowball that this caused, I feel that I should retract all previous statements.

-Lee
Last edited by quizbowllee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by blazer06 »

hmm...which senators did they have? I think after 6 months, I have all 100 down.
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Post by Follower of Mr. BrindleeM »

I'm sorry David, I know ASFA is a good team but that tounament was literally the worst I have ever been to in my 4+ years of scholar's bowl. We had two readers on our hall that were absolutely horrible. The first one, the one who accepted "King Immanual" for "Immunal II" did not know anything about scholar's bowl. Have him attend a seminar for reading or something. The second one, The "answers don't matter" guy, just couldn't talk. I guess that's not his fault but he just couldn't enunciate properly. Other than the horrible readers and the semi-bad questions, it was ok. You really need to improve on readers though.
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Post by DVader »

Yeah, sorry about the readers. We could barely get enough people to have the minimum to run the tournament so we couldn't be very choosy about the quality. As for the questions, I agree that we had a few messed up ones but for the most part they were decent. I looked at the senators work sheet afterward and it didn't really seem that bad. I'm kinda surprised y'all didn't know Robert C. "Everything in West Virginia is named after me" Byrd and some of the other well known ones, but I guess y'all aren't big followers of national politics. And the amount of math was a bit high, which I know hurt you due to y'all's lack of higher level math knowledge, but that's not really a flaw in the questions. Anyway, we'll definitely improve on this year and put on a great tournament next year.
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Post by Mr. Brindlee Mountain »

DVader wrote: I looked at the senators work sheet afterward and it didn't really seem that bad. I'm kinda surprised y'all didn't know Robert C. "Everything in West Virginia is named after me" Byrd and some of the other well known ones, but I guess y'all aren't big followers of national politics.
Ahem. I just wanted to state that I (Myles) have a huge interest in national, state, and local politics. I am a Democratic Party activist, as a matter of fact. This is what I know about the United States Senate and with it I have been able to answer 95% of all the Senate-oriented questions for all three teams I have played for:
* As of the 2004 elections, the senate is set at 44 Dems and 55 GOPs, with 1 independent
* The senatorial representation for the state of Alabama consists of Richard Shelby and Jeff Sessions, both Republicans.
* The Republican majority leader of the Senate is Bill Frist of TN
* The Democratic minority leader since Tom Daschle's defeat by John Thune in the South Dakota Senatorial election of 2004 is Harry Reid of Nevada.
* These are some of the most popular Democratic senators in the U.S. that are asked about in general quiz bowl and the only ones I have ever needed to know other than the maj/min leaders: Hillary Clinton (D-NY); Bob Graham (D-FL); Barack Obama (D-IL); Joe Lieberman (D-CT); John Edwards (D-NC); John Kerry (D-MA)

On the ASFA senators worksheet, almost every single one of the senators mentioned were obscure ones that did nothing more outstanding than simply win elections in their respective states.

Sorry about the schpiel; the incinuation that Brindlee Mountain has no interest in politics hit a raw nerve. We're actually working toward the foundation of a chapter of the Young Democrats of America at our school; it would be the first in our county.

To give my opinion on the tournament would pretty much just be quoting my coach and teammates. The biggest problem, obviously, was the inexperienced readers. I know it's hard finding good help, but please be a little bit more choosy next time. The questions were decent I suppose. I noticed a few people complain about them. But here again, the questions would have seemed ten times more professionally written had several of the readers not slaughtered them repeatedly.

I've read at tournaments before and I've also observed them being hosted and the scores being tabulated. My coach gets extremely nerve-racked when he's hosting one of our annuals. The only other time I ever see him get like that is when it is the last practice before a big qualifier and we're playing like 5th graders.

Hosting a really good tournament is a trial and error approach. You guys tried, you erred, and you have taken the first step towarn invitational tournament greatness. Some annual invitationals have such great reputations that they are considered by some to be as important as the ASCA, NAQT, and PACE qualifying tournament. Just keep at it. Keep all these criticisms and praises in mind and use them to better next year's invite.

In conclusion, I just want to say that ASFA has an incredible team. I know your invitationals will be better in the coming years. Again I think it is an outrage that your team was not allowed to progress to Regionals, you guys definitely deserved to go. Peace out.
~ Mr. Brindlee Mountain High School 2004-2005 (Myles Teston)
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Post by DVader »

OK, I take back my comment about y'all not being followers of national politics. Not knowing some really obscure facts about some Senators reflects absolutely nothing on your political followings. And good luck with the Young Democrats of America chapter, that would be an awesome accomplishment. Also good luck at Regionals and we can't wait to see y'all at Huntsville City next Monday.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Yes... knowing Myles like I do, I cringed when I read David's remark about not following politics. I knew a rant was coming. But, for what it's worth, I'm gonna make Myles learn that whole worksheet.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

Can someone post exactly which Senators were asked? I think Byrd is askable in high school, although if a lot of people missed that question I guess I'm wrong. He's the longest-serving member in either house of Congress, he was the President Pro Tem during the last three periods of Democratic control of the Senate, he's also a former Majority Leader, he's been in the news quite often over the past few years for either saying stupid things or making bold denunciations of the president, and everything in West Virginia is indeed named for him.

He's far more important than Bob Graham, who isn't even in the Senate anymore, and his presidential campaign in 1976 lasted a lot longer than Graham's did in 2004 (did Graham even make it to the primaries? maybe I should say 2003).
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Post by quizbowllee »

Again - I am retracting everything I said.
Last edited by quizbowllee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Although the damage is already done, I have deleted the questions of the worksheet as per ASFA's request.
Last edited by quizbowllee on Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chris Frankel »

Just posting my opinion. I got 15 of those in the time limit (missed 2, 11, 12, 16, 20), and it took a little while after that to remember Coleman for #16. For reference, I'm a college guy and though I do make an effort to keep up with the news, I wouldn't consider myself a politics nut.

The first question would be what kind of conversion is expected/targeted in this worksheet. Of those questions, I'd say somewhere around 8-10 of those should be readily recognizable to anyone with a reasonably solid knowledge of politics (Reid, Byrd, Biden, Obama, Kerry, Hatch, Dole, Clinton, Frist, Lieberman). There were also some other answers that would be pretty recognizable, but could have used more substantive clues, such as Spector and Lott. Reid, Kerry, Dole, Frist, and Lieberman should have had their obvious giveaway clues put in since it was a speed round, too (e.g. 2004 Democratic candidate for Kerry, Tennessee-based Senate Majority Leader for Frist, etc).

The more difficult ones I got (Murkowski, Bunning, and Salazar, the last of which has an incorrect clue because Mel Martinez of Florida is also Hispanic) were accessible to election buffs because they had 2004 races that got a lot of media attention (e.g. the nepotism controversy over Murkowski, Bunning's bizarre behavior during debates), but they should have at least mentioned the states and discussed the 2004 elections in a more straightforward manner. Of course, I can see how overdoing current events can get annoying fast. I would have put in at most 2-3 questions of this difficulty and made them the hardest ones of the worksheet.

The clues for the ones I missed did nothing for me, and should have at least included the state. Almost nobody in the public keeps up with committee positions, let alone high schoolers. I didn't bother to look up the answers I missed, but I think you should have either played to regional biases and asked for Alabama senators or other notable senators in that part of the country (e.g. Chambliss) or asked direct questions about other really noteworthy veterans like Ted Kennedy, Jim Jeffords, or John McCain.

I think the round is definitely too hard for high school, let alone a speed round, and needs a good deal of improvement, but it isn't as horrible or unsalvagable as it's being made out to be.

Oh, and to Brindlee Mountain guy, no offense or anything, but if you're going to make a big deal about being a Democratic party expert, you probably shouldn't act like it's unreasonable to be expected to know your party's senior senator. Just within the party itself, you might not want to dismiss Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, and Chuck Schumer, all of whom seem perfectly askable even for high school (maybe even Daniel Inouye, Evan Bayh, and Russ Feingold for "hard" parts). Not to be rude or anything, but while you make valid points (which I've agreed with in my post), the whole "Why should I be expected to know this?" tone is not the best way to approach the game.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

Agreed on some clues being crappy...the Congressional Firemen's Caucus? I've never heard of that nor would I expect anyone at any level of quizbowl to get an answer based on it. I respect that attempt to discourage list-memorizers by not listing states, but perhaps there should have been some compromise with that on the harder parts, just in the name of people getting some points.
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Post by blazer06 »

shameless plug for me:

1) Lisa Murkowski, R-AK
2) ??
3) Harry M Reid, D-NV
4) Robert Byrd - D-WV
5) I'm guessing Joe Biden(either him or Tom Carper) - D-DE
6) Barack Obama - D-IL
7) John Kerry - D-MA
8) Jim Bunning - R-kY
9) Orrin Hatch - R-UT
10) Arlen Specter - R-PA
11) uh...Ted Stevens R-AK?
12) Ben Nelson - D-NE
13) Trent Lott -R-MS
14) Ken Salazar, R-CO; Mel Martinez(R-FL) beat out Democrat Betty Castor 49-48, he is also hispanic.
15) Liddy Dole - R-NC
16) Norm Coleman - R-MN
17) HRC - D-NY
18) Bil Frist - R-TN
19) Joe Lieberman - D-CT
20) Pat Leahy - D-VT

don't ask me about Representatives though, I only have about 300 down.
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Post by Matt Weiner »

I split off the tangent so we can continue discussing the issue at hand.

http://www.hsquizbowl.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1658
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Post by Yeroc7890 »

Well, I thought I'd register to throw in my 0.02...

I was a reader at the ASFA tournament... in Brindlee's pool... of the three of us readers, I believe I was the only one familiar with Scholar's Bowl at all, being on the team.

So I apologize, on my part, for the other two. I will admit that many organizational aspects could have been better-handled on our part. To take some of the blame off the readers, we were only provided with eight replacement questions through the entire day... so those readers with only a passing familiarity with the game, who may have messed up (and admittedly, more than should have been the case) were more or less out of luck.

I hope next year's tournament goes better. And to the members of Brindlee Mountain's team, congratulations on your wins.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Well, I thought I'd register to throw in my 0.02...

I was a reader at the ASFA tournament... in Brindlee's pool... of the three of us readers, I believe I was the only one familiar with Scholar's Bowl at all, being on the team.

So I apologize, on my part, for the other two. I will admit that many organizational aspects could have been better-handled on our part. To take some of the blame off the readers, we were only provided with eight replacement questions through the entire day... so those readers with only a passing familiarity with the game, who may have messed up (and admittedly, more than should have been the case) were more or less out of luck.

I hope next year's tournament goes better. And to the members of Brindlee Mountain's team, congratulations on your wins.
Yes, you were, in fact, an excellent reader. We looked forward to being in your room! Thanks.

-Lee
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Post by steven-lamp »

I think the ASFA guys have gotten the point about the tournament. They'll improve it next year. It's time to lay off and stop beating a dead horse. It's really aggravating when people slam a tournament that you spent a while putting together. Feedback is feedback, but I don't want them to get angry or discouraged.
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Post by DVader »

Yeah, it's nice to know that y'all care a lot about this worksheet and the tournament in general, but I think we've gotten about all the feedback we need. Yes, we had some reader problems, but we also had plenty of good readers too, and we're not the first tournament to have a number of readers not up to par, and we'll try to reduce the number of bad readers next year as much as we can. Yes, the worksheet was a bit obscure, but considering some of the other WS's I've seen at other tournaments it wasn't hard or obscure enough to justify this amount of analysis. I hope at the least everyone now has a better knowledge of 20 of our senators. On a side note, my coach, teammates, and I would prefer that our entire worksheets not be posted online without permission, even though there is really nothing we can do about it. I know you asked before posting, Lee, but please wait until I respond before posting it since once it gets posted it's hard to take back. Yes, we had some bad questions and not enough emergency questions, but it happens and we'll take steps to reduce this problem next year. I'd like to thank all of y'all for your feedback on the tournament and hope to see you at the 10th Annual ASFA Invitational next February.

Edit: For the record, the answer to #2 is Richard Shelby (R-AL)
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Post by quizbowllee »

For my part, I'd like to apologize for the snowball that this turned into.

I kinda feel like I and my entire team came across badly in this whole thread, so I'd like to apologize about that as well. What I meant to start out as a critique just kept growing and growing... Including the point at which people outside Alabama (and indeed outside the Southeast) were curious about the worksheet and whatnot.

Sorry....

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Post by Mr. Brindlee Mountain »

quizbowllee wrote:Yes... knowing Myles like I do, I cringed when I read David's remark about not following politics. I knew a rant was coming. But, for what it's worth, I'm gonna make Myles learn that whole worksheet.

I thought I would close this roller-coaster thread by posting the assignment that my Coach gave to me today. The following are the answers to the entire ASFA senators worksheet. I've spent hours compiling my research from http://www.senate.gov , and I would like to share it with you all to provide a fitting (and civil) end to this infamous thread.

1. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) - Senator Murkowski is the daughter of Governor Frank H. Murkowski. She is Alaska's sixth U.S. Senator. Murkowski began her term on December 20, 2002 by appointment of her father, who occupied the senate seat she now holds prior to his victory over former Lieutenant Governor Fran Ullmer in the 2002 Alaska Gubernatorial election. She shares the Alaska Senatorial delegation with Senator Ted Stevens (R)

2. Richard Shelby (R-AL) - Senator Shelby, who won reelection this past November, is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs. He is assisted by Paul S. Sorbanes (D-MD), who is the Ranking Member of the committee. Senator Shelby shares the Alabama U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Jeff Sessions (R)

3. Harry Reid (D-NV) - Senator Reid has been the Democratic Minority Leader of the U.S. Senate since former Senator Tom Daschles's (D-SD) defeat at the hands of John Thune (R-SD) in the 2004 South Dakota senatorial election. He is accompanied by Assistant Minority leader Dick Durbin (D-IL). He shares the Nevade U.S. Senate delegation with Senator John Ensign (R).

4. Richard C. Byrd (D-WV) - Senator Byrd was named "West Virginian of the Twentienth Century" by Governor Bob Wise and both houses of the West Virginia Legislature. He shares the West Virginia U.S. Senate delegation with Senator John Rockefeller (D)

5. Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) - Along with serving on the Congressional Fireman's Caucus, the Senate Auto Caucus, and the Congressional Port Security Caucus, Senator Biden's service on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee has shaped U.S. foreign policy since his election to the U.S. Senate in 1972 at the age of 29. Also worthy of mention are his memberships on the National Guard Caucus and the Congressional Air Force Caucus, among many others. He shares the Delaware U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Thomas Carper (D).

6. Barack Obama (D-IL) - Along with the interesting facts about Senator Obama's racial background, he is also one of the youngest members of the U.S. Senate. Senator Obama won a sound victory over his Republican opponent, Alan Keyes, in the 2004 Illinois senatorial election. He shares the Illinois U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Dick Durbin (D)

7. John Forbes Kerry (D-MA) - Senator Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam during his final semester at Yale University. He served a Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts during the tenure of Governor Michael S. Dukakis. Kerry made an unsuccessful bid for the presidency in 2004, have won the Democratic nomination but narrowly losing to incumbent President George W. Bush. Senator Kerry shares the Massachusetts U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Edward Kennedy (D).

8. Jim Bunning (R-KY) - Senator Bunning is one of the few U.S. politicians to follow up a professional sports career with a successful political career. He played for both the Detroit Tigers and Philadelphia Phillies, earning himself a spot in the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. Bunning was first elected to the Senate in 1998 and was then reelected in 2004. Senator Bunning shares the Kentucky U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Mitchell McConnell (R).

9. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) - Senator Hatch had held no public office prior to defeating incumbent Senator Frank E. Moss (D-UT) in the 1976 Utah senatorial election. He served at one time as the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He shares the Utah U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Robert Bennett (R)

10. Arlen Specter (R-PN) - Senator Specter serves as the Chairman of both the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Veterans Committee. He shares the Pennsylvania U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Rick Santorum (R)

11. Ted Stevens (R-AK) - Senator Stevens is currently the President Pro-Tempore of the Senate. He shares the Alaska U.S. Senate representation with Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK).

12. Benjamin Nelson (D-NE) - Senator Nelson was the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate in 1996 and finally won the seat in the 2000 Nebraska Senatorial election. Senator Nelson shares the Nebraska U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Chuck Hagel (R)

13. Trent Lott (R-MS) - Senator Lott was the seventeenth Senate Majority Leader and the thirteenth Republican to hold the position. After making the comment that the now late Senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC) would have made a great president (referring to Sen. Thurmond's 1948 presidential bid whose platform was based on upholding segregation laws, etc.), he decided to resign his position as Senate Majority Leader. Lott was succeeded on December 23, 2002 by Senator Bill Frist (R-TN). Senator Lott shares the Mississippi U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Thad Conrad (R).

14. Mel Martinez (R-FL) - Not only is Senator Martinez currently the only Hispanic member the U.S. Senate, he is also the first Cuban-American to ever be elected there. Martinez served as the Housing and Urban Development Director from 2001-2004 in current President George W. Bush's Cabinet, but returned to Florida in 2004 and was elected to the U.S. Senate. Senator Martinez shares the Florida U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Bill Nelson (D)

15. Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) - Senator Dole served as Deputy Assistant of Consumer Affairs under President Richard Nixon from 1969-1973. From 1973 to 1979 she served as a member of the Federal Trade Commission. From 1981 to 1983 Dole served as President Ronald Reagan's Assistant to Public Liaison. In 1983 Senator Dole was selected by President Reagan to serve as the Secretary of Transportation in President Reagan's Cabinet. Under President George Herbert Walker Bush, she served as the Secretary of Labor. In 1991, Dole left Bush's Cabinet to become the first woman to lead the American Red Cross since its founder, Clara Barton. To top off this impressive résumé Senator Dole made a bid for the Republican presidential nomination in 2000, and finally won her Senate seat in the 2002 North Caroline senatorial election. Senator Dole shares the North Caroline U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Richard Burr (R)

16. Norman Coleman (R-MN) - Senator Coleman former Vice President and 1984 Democratic Presidential Nominee Walter Mondale who replaced incumbent Senator Paul Wellstone (D-MN) after he tragically died in a plane crash less than two weeks before election day. Senator Coleman shares the Minnesota U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Mark Dayton (D).

17. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) - After serving a the First Lady of Arkanas and then as the First Lady of the United Stated from 1993-2001, Senator Clinton successfully launched her own political career by winning the New York Senatorial Election of 2000. Senator Clinton shares the New York U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Charles Schumer (D).

18. Bill Frist (R-TN) - Senator Frist is indeed the first practicing physician to be elected to the U.S. Senate since 1928, having first done so in the 1994 Tennessee Senatorial election by defeating incumbent Senator Jim Sasser (D). He was reelected to the U.S. Senate in 2000 and is most noted for succeeding Senator Trent Lott (R-MS) as the Senate Majority Leader on December 23, 2002. Frist is accompanied by Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and shares the Tennessee U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Alexander Lamar (R).

19.Joseph Lieberman (D-CT) - Senator Lieberman was first elected as a U.S. Senator in 1988. He is most for his vice-presidential bid as former Vice President Al Gore's running mate in 2000 and his attempt at the Democratic presidential nomination of 2004. He shares the Connecticut U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Christopher Dodd (D).

20. Patrick J, Leahy (D-VE) - Senator Leahy was the first Democrat to be elected to the U.S. Senate from Vermont. He first became a senator in the 1974 Vermont senatorial election. Senator Leahy has retained his seat ever since, and is now serving his fifth term as a U.S. Senator after having been reelected in 1980, 1986,1992, 1998, and 2004. He shares the Vermont U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Jim Jeffords (I), the only independent currently holding a Senate seat whose defection from the Republican Party in 2001 led to a great deal of controversy.















~ Mr. Brindlee Mountain High School 2004-2005 (Myles Teston)
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Post by NotBhan »

Mr. Brindlee Mountain wrote:
14. Mel Martinez (R-FL) - Not only is Senator Martinez currently the only Hispanic member the U.S. Senate, he is also the first Cuban-American to ever be elected there. Martinez served as the Housing and Urban Development Director from 2001-2004 in current President George W. Bush's Cabinet, but returned to Florida in 2004 and was elected to the U.S. Senate. Senator Martinez shares the Florida U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Bill Nelson (D)
Everything else seems right, but I think this one has to be Salazar rather than Martinez because of the clue about filling the seat vacated by a "Native American" from the previous congress. Regardless, that's a nicely researched post.

For what little it's worth, I agree with previous commentators in that the quiz [a] is a bit wordy for a 2-minute event and should give the state in most if not all cases. I don't see the list as being "obscure" -- it's hard for me to pick out any one senator from that list who meets that definition -- but for a timed HS-level worksheet, easier clues could/should be provided.

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Post by Mr. Brindlee Mountain »

Thank you, Raj. My mistake... I pretty much went on a wing and a prayer when I read "lone Hispanic senator" and went down through the list and read the name "Martinez." I'll check out Senator Salazar's bio and check some archived election results for Colorado so I can correct my post before the day is out.
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Post by Mr. Brindlee Mountain »

Mr. Brindlee Mountain wrote:
18. Bill Frist (R-TN) - Senator Frist is indeed the first practicing physician to be elected to the U.S. Senate since 1928, having first done so in the 1994 Tennessee Senatorial election by defeating incumbent Senator Jim Sasser (D). He was reelected to the U.S. Senate in 2000 and is most noted for succeeding Senator Trent Lott (R-MS) as the Senate Majority Leader on December 23, 2002. Frist is accompanied by Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) and shares the Tennessee U.S. Senate delegation with Senator Alexander Lamar (R).
Also, I looked all over but could not find which former U.S. Senator, elected in 1928, was the last practicing physician prior to Senator Frist to become a member of the Senate. If anyone knows who that is, please let me know.
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Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 7:01 pm
Location: Where the wind comes sweeping down the plain

Post by DVader »

I'm pretty sure the correct answer to 14 is Salazar. Also, the author of the worksheet (not me) did not want to include states because he thought it would make the worksheet too easy for the championship round.
David John Gagne,
University of Oklahoma
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