Great Lakes Championship

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:24 pm

Admiral has suggested the possibility of a "Great Lakes Championship" and several others have bemoaned the lack of true "Pre-Nationals" tournaments... Culver Academies would be happy to host such a tournament if there is sufficient interest. Following Admiral's lead the general idea would be to limit the drawing area to roughly the "Big Ten" states with some flexibility: Maybe WI, MN, IA, IL, IN, MI, OH, PA? The tournament could be held in April or May and would feature as many qualified teams as we want (i.e. the idea would be to have a broad range of top teams from a variety of states, NOT 80% teams from IN and the rest from the other states...). "Qualified" would be up to discussion, but I think we could start with the objective condition that these should be teams who have qualified for Nationals? Anyway, please use the poll to indicate your interest in such an endeavor!

Note: In my mind I'm thinking about this as an option for 2006 unless we get overwhelming response to still try and pull this off this year...

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:16 pm

Illinois rules allow for one tournament after our state tournament, which is in March. So Illinois schools would have to choose between this tournament and a national.

If you allowed All-Star teams from Illinois, you could get around the rule. That, of course, might open a can of worms that you may not want.

A few years ago, some Illinois coaches proposed having something like this as a pre-PAC. I don't believe that we got any response.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:23 pm

I know this argument has been chewed through dozens of times, but... I thought the IL limitation only applied to 5-on-5 scholastic bowl competition? So if this is a 4-on-4 NAQT tournament, wouldn't IL teams be allowed to play and still participate and compete in Nationals later?

Matt Weiner · Post by **Matt Weiner** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:59 am

http://www.hsquizbowl.org/phpBB2/viewto ... 9686#19686

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:44 pm

Mr. Blessman is probably correct as to Illinois rules.

Unfortunately, the end of March is when Illinois holds our state tournament, so we won't be in Ohio then.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:47 pm

If you responded "Yes, count us in!" or "Definite possibility..." please contact me directly at [email protected]. I'd like to get a lists of possible teams going so we can talk about this in a more concrete fashion. Thanks!

solonqb · Post by **solonqb** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:14 pm

With all due respect Mr. Blessman, I think it's a great idea in concept, but don't you think this might possibly be a bit much for the regional tournament market to bear?

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:20 pm

I'm not sure I know what you mean... What's the "regional tournament market" and what is it "bear"ing? Do you mean that adding a Midwestern Championship would suck teams away from other tournaments? I guess I'm confused...

solonqb · Post by **solonqb** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:48 pm

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:39 pm

I guess this looks to me like a new thread, so if there is any significant discussion here, we should move this over to a different thread... but we'll give it a shot anyway:

Is the current Quiz Bowl Tournament market in the Midwest saturated? I, personally, don't think so... I see many regional/local tournaments with a few long distance teams coming in to play there (e.g. Solon, Tipp City and Culver at MSU; DCC and Maine South at Culver). I don't think a "Regional Championship" would really affect these tournaments in a significant manner. Even if DCC or Solon or New Trier or Conserve or Culver decided to travel to one less tournament long distance to attend a Regional Championship, the effect on what I might call "local" tournaments would be not that significant, as virtually all tournaments draw 80% or more of their teams from within 100 miles.

My idea behind this tournament is to give teams that want to travel an opportunity to travel to a tournament where they know they will face a large battery of Nationals caliber teams. I believe having such a tournament might draw 8 or 16 teams from across the region and might even induce some teams who would normally not travel to make a trip out of their area... E.g. Fremd sounds like they're not going to PACE or NAQT... but maybe they can be induced to come to the Midwest Championship?

potato0328 · Post by **potato0328** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:45 pm

don't quote me on this, but we (Fremd) have been looking for a nationals-type team to do this summer (4 of our starting 5 are graduating). conflicts have prevented us from doing these national tournaments, but this idea sounds like something our team would love to do.

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:56 pm

I *personally* think it's a good idea, but I know there's conflicts with Illinois rules and stuff, and timing, etc. So, I'll just generally keep my mouth shut.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:24 am

IHSA limitation on participation in NAQT matches

The rules in question are 5-C and Rule 3, copied below for your convenience (from http://www.ihsa.org/activity/scb/2004-0 ... 20book.pdf). Rule 5 states that "Teams may not participate in equivalent activities outside the defined season" and goes on to define "equivalent activities" as: "Any activity that meets the definition of a Scholastic Bowl match as published in the printed version of the IHSA Handbook (5.340), regardless whether all IHSA rules are followed, shall be considered an equivalent activity." Rule 3 spells out this definition of a "match" as a game including bonus rebounding, bonuses that are limited to 20 points and a match length that depends on number of questions, not time. NAQT quiz bowl does not include rebounds, bonuses are always worth 30 points and the length of the game is defined by a clock, not by the number of questions. This is different from "Scholastic Bowl" according to the rules laid out by the IHSA and therefore should not be considered an "equivalent activity" as it doesn't meet the requirements of the definition of a Scholastic Bowl match as described by the IHSA rules. Illinois teams SHOULD therefore be free to attend NAQT Nationals and other NAQT tournaments after the IHSA season is over, just as they are also allowed to compete in the National Science Bowl tournament, if they qualify, just to give one example...

IHSA Rules:

5-C. Equivalent Activities
5-C-1. Any activity that meets the definition of a Scholastic Bowl match as published in the printed version of the IHSA Handbook
(5.340), regardless whether all IHSA rules are followed, shall be considered an equivalent activity, and must be counted toward
the 18 date maximum prescribed by the IHSA By Laws.
5-C-2. Teams may not participate in equivalent activities outside the defined season, as prescribed by IHSA By-Law.

RULE 3: Match Mechanics
3-A. Definition of a Match
3-A-1. Match questions will be a combination of toss-up and bonus. Bonus questions are multiple-part (three to five parts) and are
rebounding. Rebounding refers to the fact that the team to which the bonus is not awarded has the opportunity to pick up any
part(s) unanswered or answered incorrectly by the team to which the bonus was originally awarded.
3-A-2. Each match will consist of 30 toss-up and 30 bonus questions for a total of 60 questions.
3-A-3. Toss-up questions are worth ten (10) points. A correct answer to a toss-up question results in control of the respective bonus
question.
3-A-4. Bonus questions are worth a maximum of twenty (20) points and consist of three to five parts.
3-A-5. A match shall consist of two halves. Each half will consist of fifteen toss-up questions and accompanying bonus questions.

dtaylor4 · Post by **dtaylor4** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:41 am

For the sake of timing, it would probably have to be in may, june, or july

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:40 pm

I'm tentatively considering May 14 for a possible Midwest Championship...

dtaylor4 · Post by **dtaylor4** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:22 pm

are there any updates as to the possibility of this happening?

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:40 pm

Anybody hear anything about this?

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:51 pm

I had some initial interest from

Culver Academies (IN)
Solon (OH)
Tippecanoe (OH)
Garfield Heights (OH)
DCC (MI)

but then interest teetered out due to three problems:

1. Lack of teams: It seemed we only had five teams interested.
2. Date: May 21 was the last date discussed, due to grad issues, but there was no general agreement.
3. Question source: DCC and Solon have played basically all NAQT sets.

If all three problems can still be resolved, Culver would be still happy to host this. Input?

zwtipp · Post by **zwtipp** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:53 pm

What, no Illinois teams who want to try and match up against Ohio and Indiana schools?
Come on people, this would be fun to have.

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:51 am

We can make it May 14. We could bring a round of questions we wrote.

solonqb · Post by **solonqb** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:42 am

Why not a double round-robin packet submission? Have each team write two packets and staff during their byes. Record determines winner, and have a tiebreaker round ready if necessaty.

David Riley · Post by **David Riley** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:36 pm

We might be able to make it pending the date.

zwtipp · Post by **zwtipp** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:45 pm

sounds good to me noah. although asking for two rounds from each team might be pushing it a little. it would be a good preview of college quiz bowl if we do though.

BobGHHS · Post by **BobGHHS** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:26 pm

If you did a team's bye round(s) during when their packet was being played, it would be on the team to write it and not the coach, thus making it much easier. My guys wanted to write all the questions for our tournament and not play, but I felt they needed the practice and I had enough volunteers to write.... We're still interested in coming if it happens, as long as our school board lets us...

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:08 am

Culver is still willing to host this if it happens. Culver would also be happy to write two Rounds of Questions (I think we can handle this...). Looking at the recent posts it seems we have:

Definitely interested:

Culver Academies (IN)
Solon (OH)
Tippecanoe (OH)
Garfield Heights (OH)
New Trier (IL)

Indicated interest earlier:

DCC (MI)
Fremd (IL)

Any other teams want to put their name on the list? Somehow five teams seems a little bit low for this affair...

BobGHHS · Post by **BobGHHS** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:45 pm

What kills is that most coaches don't frequent these boards... I have the emails for about a hundred ohio coaches and I'm sure Noah has an extensive list if you want them to try to email them about it... maybe you'll get a few hits.

dtaylor4 · Post by **dtaylor4** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:48 pm

My coach can barely use a computer. His quote is that he "IMs students, checks email, and types up stuff" on a computer and that is it.

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:02 pm

If there's trouble getting a suitable amount of teams...

How about letting schools bring two teams, either A and B style, or even a second team of underclassmen, to give them experience for next year. Just a thought.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:00 am

I guess I feel B Teams would be not in the spirit of things, unless the B Team is a top level nationals caliber team. The idea was to provide a Pre-Nationals experience to teams who want to play some of the top teams from the region...

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:29 pm

Yeah, true. However, if you did something like JV teams, and just had them play with the Varsity it's still like that...sort of. Bad idea, whatever. I see your point. Hopefully more schools can show! And quickly, only three weeks and a day until the 14th.

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:38 pm

pblessman wrote:Culver is still willing to host this if it happens. Culver would also be happy to write two Rounds of Questions (I think we can handle this...). Looking at the recent posts it seems we have:

Definitely interested:

Culver Academies (IN)
Solon (OH)
Tippecanoe (OH)
Garfield Heights (OH)
New Trier (IL)

Indicated interest earlier:

DCC (MI)
Fremd (IL)

Any other teams want to put their name on the list? Somehow five teams seems a little bit low for this affair...

Loyola (IL) expressed some interest as well.

David Riley wrote:We might be able to make it pending the date.

Also, Bob or whoever mentioned this, has anyone talked to some Ohio teams yet?

Stained Diviner · Post by **Stained Diviner** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:57 pm

New Trier is only interested if it is on May 14 and the official announcement comes this week.

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:57 pm

As I've had a couple of teams withdraw their interest from our already meager potential field and we are rapidly running out of time I've decided to can the idea for 2005 but get on the 2006 train right away... So here it goes:

Culver Academies announce that we will host the 2006 Midwest Championship on May 13, 2006. This tournament is intended as a Pre-Nationals tournament so we are hopeful to attract a large crowd of top tier teams from adjoining states, with adjoining defined loosely- we're looking mostly for teams from IL, IN, MI and OH, but WI, MN, KY, PA and some other states would also be possibilities. Fee structure will be pretty standard with discounts for buzzer systems and long distance travel.

To register, please e-mail Phil Blessman at [email protected]. I will release more detailed announcements as we move into next school year.

Trevkeeper · Post by **Trevkeeper** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:45 pm

Good idea, but one question: Since there will be actual time to plan and etc., will it use an NAQT set then, instead of the packet submission we were talking about? Or is that TBD?

pblessman · Post by **pblessman** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:19 pm

The 2006 Midwest Championship will most likely be NAQT. I've contacted NAQT and will make an official announcement here as soon as I know for sure.

The Quizbowl Resource Center

Great Lakes Championship

Would you be interested in participating in a Great Lakes Championship?

Great Lakes Championship

4 on 4 competition?

Please contact me directly...

?

Regional Tournament Market

IHSA limitation on participation in NAQT matches

May 14?

Interest teeterd out...

May 14 or May 21 at Culver Academies

B Teams

Re: May 14 or May 21 at Culver Academies

2006 Midwest Championship: May 13, 2006

NAQT Questions