How to get to the next level?

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Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock
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How to get to the next level?

Post by Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock »

Hi everyone, I'm new around here but my school's team isn't, so I'm posting in here. If this is the wrong section, I do apologize and please let me know that.

So basically, I don't know that our team participates in a lot of the competitions I've seen talked about around here, but I was just going to give a rundown of what we compete in, how we did last year, and what the outlook is for this year, then you guys help me out from there. If you have any questions about something I say or don't say, please, please ask me. :smile:

Like I said, there's 3 major competitions that our team does each year, and they each have their own different format. I'll write a little on each of them.

First is our local league. We go up to another school in our area every Monday from late September or early October to around early December to play against 5 other teams in our division. Last year I was the captain of the JV team, and we won the playoff for our division title. Unfortunately our varsity team didn't do too well, though. In regards to the teams we played against last year in JV, there's a pretty obvious divide between the top 3 teams who are very competitive and the bottom 3 teams who are a bit behind. The formatting of these competitions is this: 3 teams play at once, there are 3 rounds. The first round is 15 tossups, with a bonus following any correct answer. Then all 3 teams get a 10 question lightning round, each answer worth 5 points apiece with an extra 10 points given for sweeping the category (Did that last year with an American Revolution category). The last round is another 15 tossups, with a 4-part bonus given when a team gets 3 correct answers. I don't remember all the point values, sorry about that, but there's no points deducted for wrong answers here.

Second is the TV competition filmed at our local PBS affiliate. Last year we went to the semifinals before getting knocked out by a team with one big powerhouse. I just saw the draw for this year, and we're playing our archrivals (Parkland), a very good team. In the first round. They don't seed it or anything, it's a joke if you ask me, but whatever. Can only play who's put in front of us. These questions are a fair bit less obscure than some of the ones from the league, and you know the category before they are read. Every right answer is worth 10 points, and you get a bonus worth 10 points if you do answer correctly. You lose 5 points if you're the first team to buzz in and you get it wrong, but I don't think you lose anything if you're the second team in and you're wrong. I'll have to go back and check that though. No points lost for guessing on a bonus.

Finally, we have the competition at our intermediate unit. Last year we could only manage to get 3 people to go because of AP exams and people just getting back from overseas trips, but we managed to win the whole thing playing against teams with 4 players. It was a 3-way tie going into the final "fanfare round" (like a lightning round where only one team gets to answer), and we pulled it out. It was just an incredible moment. We went to the state championships in early May and held our own, but we were done in by an insanely difficult draw. At states, 3 teams play at a time and we had 2 preliminary matches, so we played 4 teams in all. 3 of them were the 3 final teams, and the fourth was the team that won our TV competition. It was still a great learning experience, though, so I'm happy to have gone. Formatting for this is 10 tossups followed by a 6-question fanfare round for each team. Then that's repeated one more time. Every answer is worth 5 points, and you don't lose anything for wrong answers.

So now catching up to today. One of our team's advising teachers retired last year, so our remaining coach told me last year that I'd probably have to help him with pulling out questions for practices, maybe doing some reading every now and then. I went and found him on the first day of school to tell him a fun story from over the summer, and he told me that I'm now varsity/TV-IU team captain and club president. I'm really excited for this, because I can feel that we'll have a pretty good year. We're having our tryout test in a little over a week, and I've got a cardboard box full of folders with questions that I brought home so I can sift through them and pretty much formulate the test.

Now this is where you guys come in. I want to be able to take that next step, to get our varsity team back up to the top in the league, to win the TV competition, and to go a bit further at states. The thing is, I don't really know where to start in doing that. First thing's first, I suppose, what should I look for in questions to make up the test? In the past it's been 100 questions that you have 10 seconds to answer, and our coach and I are fine to keep it that way unless there's something else I find that may be better. After we have our team set, what should I look for in good practice questions? We have tons and tons of old questions from our league in years past and other sources as well, is it best to just mix everything together or concentrate on certain subjects sometimes? One example is I know we need a better literature base, I've been trying to work on it myself but would it be good to get everybody to know a bit more? If you have anything else we could do I'd love to hear it. :grin:

Wow, that was really, really long. So if you've read this far thank you very much for doing so, and I'd greatly appreciate it if you gave me a few ideas of what to do. Thanks again! :grin: :grin:
Ryan Bilger
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Important Bird Area »

Welcome to the forums!

For practice questions, our own database is the best source of downloadable practice material. (Start here.)

Once you have the team together, consider attending local tournaments. Princeton on September 28th and Phoenixville on November 23rd are both nearby.
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Schmidt Sting Pain Index »

Hey,

For studying I would also recommend looking into the packets the Mr. Hoppes has posted above. For other methods, other people may be able to better advise you than I. These types of posts can been seen in the "New Highschool Teams" subforum.

In regards to tournaments, Wilmington Charter is hosting a tournament in Wilmington, DE, which is about an hour and a half away from your school. We have two divisions: one for JV and one for Varsity. The Varsity division is using questions that are the same type and difficulty as the questions which are being used at the tournaments Mr. Hoppes posted. All of these tournaments are run on different editions of NAQT's Invitational Series. Our JV division is also run on NAQT questions, although they are of introductory level. The JV division might be a good opportunity for you guys to get acclimated to pyramidal quizbowl if you guys have not been yet. Hope you consider coming to this tournament. I will like the announcement post as it will be posted soon. Good Luck!
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Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock »

Thanks very much to you both for reading and replying, I definitely get what you're saying that there's no better way to practice than by playing. I know Phillipsburg should be having a tournament sometime early next year, our coach said both years they'd wanted to go in the past it had snowed the day of so they just canned it, but I'm determined to get there this year. :wink:

I'll have a look at a few of those and bring them up with our coach. I'll have to see what he says, of course, but it's definitely worth considering.

Oh, and West Chester Henderson will be at Phoenixville? They were one of the three state finalists we got stuck up against in Harrisburg. :razz:
Ryan Bilger
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Stained Diviner »

Now this is where you guys come in. I want to be able to take that next step, to get our varsity team back up to the top in the league, to win the TV competition, and to go a bit further at states.
It is helpful to recognize that the league, TV competition, and state competition you play in are not good academic competitions because they use questions and rules that are not good. Of course, this is not your fault. If you focus on those tournaments, you will not learn much. Furthermore, even if you are the best team you may not win because there is a lot of guesswork and luck involved. Based on some of the comments in your post, you seem to understand this well, and I think the most important thing we can tell you is that better alternatives exist.

Here in Illinois, there are two types of teams. One type of team does not prioritize the IHSA State Tournament because it is not good. The other type of team does prioritize the IHSA State Tournament because it is the biggest tournament in Illinois with the most administrative support. The teams that do not prioritize the IHSA State Tournament are the ones who win the tournament, because they care about forms of quizbowl that involve learning. They learn throughout the year by learning about important subjects and reading questions like the ones linked to above by other people. Many teams don't seem to understand the way things work and continue to focus on the IHSA Tournament and lose to the teams who don't. Similarly, your team should decide whether they want to focus on good tournaments or bad tournaments.

If you practice and play on good questions, you will learn things and get better at quizbowl. You still might do poorly at the tournaments you mention, because there is a lot of luck involved, but your chances will improve. More importantly, you will have good experiences and learn. You will also join a trend that is growing rather than shrinking nationwide.

You might be interested in some of the QBWiki articles.
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Corry
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Corry »

So yeah, you've probably noticed that this forum is mostly focused on discussion of "pyramidal" quiz bowl. Pyramidal questions consist of multiple sentences, with the hardest clues at the beginning and the easiest clues at the end. While I'm not familiar with the specifics of your regional and state competitions, local "academic challenges" tend to use one-line questions, which are actually pretty different from normal pyramidal questions. In addition, the "question distribution" of local challenges is often pretty random-- you never know whether the round will turn out to be science-heavy, history-heavy, or who knows. Meanwhile, pyramidal quiz bowl competitions make a big deal about making sure that the same subjects are represented consistently in every round, and all pyramidal questions draw from a relatively "canonical" topics, meaning you'll never get a question that's too weird.

So obviously, there are usually some pretty big differences between pyramidal quiz bowl (also referred to as "good" quizbowl, though I tend to find that label rather pretentious) and other formats. As a result, we probably can't give you any specific advice about studying for the alternative-format competitions. I suppose simple studying (reading books, Wikipedia articles, etc.) would be the most straightforward method. You really can't go wrong with just spending more time studying.

In the meantime, I highly recommend checking out some of the pyramidal quiz bowl competitions in your area (as a few other posters have already mentioned in this thread). I had a LOT of fun playing pyramidal quiz bowl in my three years of high school, and it's always great to have new teams in the circuit. I think your team will enjoy it.
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Re: How to get to the next level?

Post by Capitoline »

Welcome Ryan,

I too can attest to the often-frustrating nature of the PA State Academic Competition. Questions lacking pronunciation aids, the absence of an option to prompt on a partial or incomplete answer, and the obligatory 2-3 trick questions per match (once I was negged for saying "Locke" on a question which was revealed at the end to be looking for a first and last name) all dampen the excitement for me.

That said, I'd like to extend a warm invitation to the Phoenixville Area Quiz Tournament on 11/23. We are less than an hour from Emmaus and have a good mix of new and experienced teams attending. We'd love to see you there!
Ben Cushing
Phoenixville '14
Penn '18
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