HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Not yet. I have some school work to get caught up on and am driving bottled water to Charleston, WV tomorrow. I'll get it when I can.

Related note: updated the most rankings due to Bellaire B actually being half of Bellaire A, and Western Albemarle getting a stat correction from this past weekend.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I'm attempting to contact local media for all teams in my top 200. So far I've emailed AL, AZ, CT, DE, IN, ON, WV, SG, LA, MS and the Austin area teams. This includes whatever local newspapers and TV stations I could easily find contact info for. I'm doing my best to roll these out as much as I can while handling other duties.

If you'd like to make sure I hit a particular outlet, please email me at [email protected]. If you could include a particular email address for that outlet, that'd be even better. If you know a radio station or other outlet I missed above, let me know.

Edit: contacted SC and San Antonio - 1/14

Edit: other Texas schools & DC - 1/15
Last edited by AKKOLADE on Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Editing the post above with info as I can. I'll do my best to contact everyone as I can.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

And to post yet another time in this thread: if you do get media coverage, I would like to see it if you wouldn't mind seeing it.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

5 straight posts in this thread. I'm so cool.

PR efforts are going to be paused for the next couple of weeks. Thanks for understanding and sorry in advance.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I just saw someone accessed hsqbrank by searching "frank morlan, quiz bolw". Thank you, Internet.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Rountree »

Fred/Frank,

At some point before nationals, it would be interesting to see what the records of the top 25 teams are against each other. You might not have this information readily available, but if you do I think that would spur some good conversations. I love "quiz bolw".
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

That might be a spring break project, but I already have many spring break projects. We'll see.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Rountree »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:That might be a spring break project, but I already have many spring break projects. We'll see.
I completely understand. I don't want to add more to your already full plate. Perhaps we can get coaches or players from the teams in or around the top 25 to post their records against other top 25 teams by May 1st? That would certainly save you the time of doing it on your own, and it would allow for most of the regular season tournaments to have finished. Thanks again for all you do, Fred.

edit - clarity
Last edited by Rountree on Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Yeah, community help would be pretty swell. We all know my stance on results of individual games is (hint: if you don't, it's that it's an entirely too small sample size to draw too much from compared with an entire tournament or season's of data); that said, I do believe that (and this is just a completely made up example, so no one go and get angry now) if LASA A were to beat St. John's A, both at full strength, 8 out of 9 times on sets of approximately IS difficulty and above, then if they met at HSNCT or NSC, I would consider LASA A the favorite

I would request that anyone interested in helping with this to not consider FKT, A-Sets, and anything else that is that easy. I just don't believe that they translate to HSNCT/NSC results, but I could be wrong.

I spent some relaxation time last night recalculating difficulty adjustments and working on the updated rankings. I've gone through what was the top 100 teams pre-adjustment and sorted some things. I'll drop a spoiler of sorts that we'll have a new #3 team unless I calculated something wrong.

Unfortunately, this won't be updated for a few days because I have to spend my math time with concepts like bioavailability, infusion rate constants and Fick's first law.

TL;DR update later this week, maybe someone can get motivated to help with tracking win-loss stuff, new #3
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Rountree »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Yeah, community help would be pretty swell. We all know my stance on results of individual games is (hint: if you don't, it's that it's an entirely too small sample size to draw too much from compared with an entire tournament or season's of data); that said, I do believe that (and this is just a completely made up example, so no one go and get angry now) if LASA A were to beat St. John's A, both at full strength, 8 out of 9 times on sets of approximately IS difficulty and above, then if they met at HSNCT or NSC, I would consider LASA A the favorite
Good points. I think this endeavor is more useful as fuel for discussion about nationals rather than necessarily being predictive of finishes at nationals. Additionally, some teams will have a dearth of games while others will have a glut of them, making a predictive nature even more difficult.

We need to decide how we're going to post this information. Below is a first draft of a format for a team's record against other top 25 teams. The community can refine this format so that by May 1 we are ready to post the whole slate of the top 25 teams' records in one consistent manner.

HSQB RANK #. SCHOOL NAME
7 Wins (School 1, School 2 x 3 times, School 3, School 4, School 5)
3 Losses (School 1, School 2, School 3)

Is this too much information or not enough? What changes should be made? Helpful input is appreciated.

Perhaps a moderator can make a new thread for this at some point? Thanks.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

On a semi-related note: does anyone have links to stats that don't have PPB in them but do have reliable power stats in them? I know about the recent Cedar Shoals one on IS-134, and I think there was another GA tournament that I need to find again. Any others?
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by TulaneKQB »

I'm excited to see two Louisiana teams on the latest batch of rankings, but I feel like I should point out the fact that, not only has Jesuit A won every tournament that we've hosted this year, they have also nearly gone undefeated at every tournament, with their only loss this year coming in a preliminary round against Ben Franklin at Lusher. I think both Jesuit A and Franklin A belong here, but maybe their rankings should be flipped to recognize Jesuit's stronger overall performance.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by remake20 »

Fred, are you still wanting local media contacts?
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I've updated the rankings after a couple of oversights.

Andrew, feel free to send me media contacts. I'll do my best to get to them, though I honestly don't know when that will be.

Ryan, the stats I look at give Franklin a slight edge at this point.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by NikhilSethi »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:Rankings kind of rhymes with bacon.
It seems that there are two Dublin Scioto A's (45 and 46).
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Fixed it. I messed up copying & pasting so that the 5 team block Dorman B was in that used to end with Dublin Scioto A.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by i never see pigeons in wheeling »

There are also two listings for Amador Valley A: one called Amador A and one called Amador Valley A.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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I thought I had that fixed; I'll try to get that taken care of as soon as I can.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by samus149 »

Out of curiosity, are the difficulty adjustments just an average of the difference in PPB vs. an IS set for all teams, or are they weighted in some way?
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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samus149 wrote:Out of curiosity, are the difficulty adjustments just an average of the difference in PPB vs. an IS set for all teams, or are they weighted in some way?
The former, albeit not all teams. I typically don't look at C teams and lower, with a few exceptions; I also ignore blatant outliers.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Southern Double-collared Sunbirb »

IMSA remains ranked higher nationally than they are in their silly Masonic Regionals or whatever tournament that is.
IHSA regionals, that is. Masonics is actually a reasonably legit tournament, being run on good questions. IHSA... not so much. They seem to love uninformed tournament running and plagiarism.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Whoops, I'll fix that.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Guess who's trying a big dumb new design!
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

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Also, comments are returning starting with the next post. Or maybe on all posts. I'm not entirely certain. Hopefully Alan Wright can return.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Ha, so, I think I made a pretty huge mistake on the SCOP difficulty adjustment. I think I compared the teams' SCOP values vs. A-set values, but treated them like normal IS set values, which would incorrectly increase SCOP aPPB by 3.89. So, uh, my bad.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by johntait1 »

Are the PPB for SCOP Novice tournaments currently included in the rankings? I was curious since our B team included on the rankings that played at Trevor's Trivia http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... detail/#t9 was the same as the team that played SCOP Novice at WKU Fall JV http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... etail/#t15 but only the PPB from Trevor's Trivia is included while the PPB from the SCOP Novice tournament is not included.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I haven't tried to filter out non-representative JV teams on SCOP from representative JV teams on the same set, and that likely won't change any time soon. I'm just considering stats for teams that played at full strength on SCOP.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Theodore »

Just wondering: what determines whether a set is used or not to determine rankings? For example, why does FKT have a PPB adjustment (http://hsqbrank.com/2014/02/05/2013-201 ... justments/), but not SCOP? Another example would be how Michigan Fall is not included, but Penn Bowl is. Is it simply that not enough high school teams played these tournaments? Not saying some sets should be included or excluded, just curious.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

SCOP is included now that I know non-JV teams played, but it's only included for those teams. If you can point at non-JV teams that I'm missing, I'd be happy to consider them.

I didn't know if any high school teams played Michigan Fall. I have stats for 7 high schools playing Penn Bowl, which is pretty close to the minimum I'd consider. If only one or two high schools played Michigan Fall, then I don't feel like I'd come up with a reliable adjustment at all.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Beevor Feevor »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:SCOP is included now that I know non-JV teams played, but it's only included for those teams. If you can point at non-JV teams that I'm missing, I'd be happy to consider them.

I didn't know if any high school teams played Michigan Fall. I have stats for 7 high schools playing Penn Bowl, which is pretty close to the minimum I'd consider. If only one or two high schools played Michigan Fall, then I don't feel like I'd come up with a reliable adjustment at all.
Checking stats for Michigan Fall, I have Colonel By A and B, Western Albemarle (solo), Lafayette High School, Harmony, Reagan, and LASA A (though really a watered down LASA B) playing the tournament. HQBC and Tamil Tiger Mothers also played MFT, but they're pseudonymous high schools, so I don't know if they would count. That's 7 high schools, but I don't think the adjustment would be terribly accurate seeing as many of the teams weren't at full strength. Would be interesting to see though!
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Theodore »

Einhard wrote: Checking stats for Michigan Fall, I have Colonel By A and B, Western Albemarle (solo), Lafayette High School, Harmony, Reagan, and LASA A (though really a watered down LASA B) playing the tournament. HQBC and Tamil Tiger Mothers also played MFT, but they're pseudonymous high schools, so I don't know if they would count. That's 7 high schools, but I don't think the adjustment would be terribly accurate seeing as many of the teams weren't at full strength. Would be interesting to see though!
Colonel By split our regular A team. I agree with Eric that an adjustment would be interesting but not accurate. Of course, it's up to you Fred on whether you want to create an adjustment or include MFT or not (not saying you should or shouldn't).

Will ACF Regionals have an adjustment? From the packet list (not all tournament stats are up yet), I see LASA A & B, Dorman, Colonel By, St. John's, Northmont, and Arcadia (my apologies if I've missed a high school), which is 7 (like Penn Bowl). This does not account for teams that submit a packet but did not attend, or teams that were not required to submit a packet and attended. In general, I would like to see as many tournaments (including full-strength novice or collegiate) as possible count towards the rankings, but not at the expense of accuracy of course (e.g. if there are too few high school teams).
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Beevor Feevor »

Regs should definitely have an adjustment. Although those might be the high schools that have submitted packets, the entire Texas Invitational field (or most of it), as seen at http://www.texasquizbowl.org/events/022 ... ational-v/ is playing ACF Regionals, which contains at least 17 high schools; that should be plenty to form an adjustment.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Einhard wrote:
Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:SCOP is included now that I know non-JV teams played, but it's only included for those teams. If you can point at non-JV teams that I'm missing, I'd be happy to consider them.

I didn't know if any high school teams played Michigan Fall. I have stats for 7 high schools playing Penn Bowl, which is pretty close to the minimum I'd consider. If only one or two high schools played Michigan Fall, then I don't feel like I'd come up with a reliable adjustment at all.
Checking stats for Michigan Fall, I have Colonel By A and B, Western Albemarle (solo), Lafayette High School, Harmony, Reagan, and LASA A (though really a watered down LASA B) playing the tournament. HQBC and Tamil Tiger Mothers also played MFT, but they're pseudonymous high schools, so I don't know if they would count. That's 7 high schools, but I don't think the adjustment would be terribly accurate seeing as many of the teams weren't at full strength. Would be interesting to see though!
Problem with MFT is that the first two and likely the latter wouldn't be able to be used.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by johntait1 »

By the way, our B team was missing a player at the Bobcat Challenge on February 15th(compare players at http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... detail/#t3 and http://www.hsquizbowl.org/db/tournament ... detail/#t9) so if you could not count that tournament for the rankings that'd be great. Thanks.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

Okay, time for a little help request. Here are the current tournaments I have in the database with PPBs:

ACF Fall @ Cal Berkeley
ACF Fall at NIU
ACF Fall at OSU
ACF Fall Southeast
ACF Regionals California
ACF Regionals Mid-Atlantic
ACF Regionals Toronto
Alamo City Challenge
Alberta Quizbowl Tournament II
ANGST
AQA December
AQA February
AQA James
AQA LIST IV Mirror
AQA November
AQA September
Arcadia AXOLOTL
BAAL Horace @ Hillsdale
Beartolt Becht Varsity
Beartotl Brecht JV
BELLAFONTE
BELLOCO
BHSAT at Georgia Tech
BHSAT XXIII
BISB at Haverford
Blacksburg High Academic Invitational
BMI
Bobcat Challenge
Boise State Treasure Valley
Bolton
Bonfire of the Manatees
BOSSICK Lawrence-Gallia
BOSSICK Logan-Harding
BOSSICK Miami-Shelby
BOSSICK Pauldin-Putnam-Van Wert
BOSSICK Pike-Jackson-Ross
BOSSICK Scioto
BOSSICK Trumbull
BOSSICK Wayne-Holmes
BOSSICK Wyandot-Crawford-Marion
BOSSICK: Hancock
Brainbusters Fall
Brumaire Memorial
Bull Bowl
Cal Cup 3
Cal Cup 4 JV
Cal Cup 4 Varsity
California Cup JV
California Cup Varsity
Cavalier Classic XVI
Centennial Invitational
Central Buckeye
Central Massachusetts Fall
Centralia Autumn
Chapelle Fall
Columbus City League
Comet Open
Cornell Cayuga Championship
Covenant Christian Invitational
CSI
CSWIFT
Delaware Fall
Demon Deacon Challenge
Dutchtown Invitational
East of Eden
EPIC WIN
FKT at Hubbard
FKT at Olmsted Falls
FKT at OSU
FKT at Sidney
Florida Gateway
Floridian High School Winter
GATT
Glen Gonsalvez NAQT
Golden Eagle Bowl II
GSAC XXI
Hallsville
Harvard Fall Tournament
HFT at Auburn
Hoover Invitational
IHOP
IHSSBCA Kickoff - Centennial
IHSSBCA Kickoff - Greenville
IHSSBCA Kickoff - Maine South (Competitive)
IHSSBCA Kickoff - Maine South (Standard)
IHSSBCA Kickoff - Sterling
IHSSBCA Kickoff at Carbondale
IHSSBCA Kickoff at Maine South
IHSSBCA Turnabout - Bloomington
Kickapoo
L.L. Lewis Cup
LIFT XIII
Lisgar's JAMES
Louisiana Tech SCOP
Louisville A&S Challenge
Loyburn Standard
Loyburn Ultra-Competitive
Loyola Ultima Standard
Lusher Invitational
Maclay Marauder
MAD
Mellon Bowl XI
Metro Richmond Invitational 2
Michigan Autumn Classic
Missouri Fall
MIT Fall
MOQBA Winter Invitational NE
Mountain Lakes Invitational
Murrah Mustang
NAQT Arizona State Championship
NAQT Illinois State Championship
NAQT Kentucky
NAQT Missouri
NAQT South Florida
NAQT Western PA Championship
New Trier Varsity Competitive
New Trier Varsity Standard
Niles West Varsity III
North Kansas City Varsity
North White Kickoff
Oakland Mills Tourney
Oakville Varsity
Olmsted Falls Battle Buzz
Ontario GSAC
Ottawa Quizbowl Tournament IX
Parkview Invitational
Penn Bowl
Penn QuAC
Phoenixvile PhAQT
PHSAT
Portland Invitational
Quaker Bowl V
Ranger Academic Tournament
Ransom Everglades
RAYNOR
Rickards Spring
Rock Bridge WIT III
Rowdy Raider
Rube XI
Run for the Roses
Sacramento Fall
Sacramento Winter
SAGACITY IX
Scarsdale Invitational
SERIOUS
Singapore Invitational
Siouxper Bowl X
SOCIAL
Solon Sunday PACE
South Range Academic Challenge
Springfield Varsity
St. Joseph's FKT mirror
St. Mark's Invitation
Stanford Penn Bowl
Tate Aggie
Texas ACF Fall
Three Trails Tournament
Tiger Bowl VI
Tiger Throwdown
Tippecanoe Academic Challenge
TQBA Bexar Bowl
TQBA Heart of Texas
TQBA HoHoHo
TQBA Metroplex Challenge
TQBA Varsity Kickoff Classic IX
TQBA Winter Rodeo
Triton Winter IV
Tulane Fall
Tulsa Fall
U Charleston
UIUC Earlybird
UNC Tar Heel Cup
University of Kentucky Fall Championship
University of Kentucky Fall Championship (Standard)
University of Washington SCOP
UTC Trevor's Trivia
UVA ACF Fall
UW Fall Classic
VCU Fall V
VCU Spring
VCU Winter VI
VCU/UVA Collaboration
Vermont PHAT
WAT II
West Point Tournament
West Salem Invitational
White Station
William Rufus King
Winter War Invitational
Wisconsin Fall
WIT
WKU Hilltopper
WUHSAC
Yale FAcT IX
Yellow Jacket Invitational

I also have the power stats for whatever GA tournaments used IS130, IS134 and JAMES, which I don't feel like looking up right now.

So, if you see any tournaments I've missed from the above, please let me know.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by Ndg »

It looks like you missed the Agnes Irwin tournament from last month.

I thought of this one because Downingtown East put up 26.1 PPB (on an A-set, but still pretty good).
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by ScoBo »

MOQBA Winter at Orchard Farm (IS-131A) - not sure what's up with Parkway Central's bonus stats; I assume you can just take (BPts/(15s+10s)) to get the correct bonus conversion.
MOQBA Winter at Waynesville (IS-131A)
Helias Catholic (GSAC)

I think all other known Missouri tournaments are in the list.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

ScoBo wrote:MOQBA Winter at Orchard Farm (IS-131A) - not sure what's up with Parkway Central's bonus stats; I assume you can just take (BPts/(15s+10s)) to get the correct bonus conversion.
MOQBA Winter at Waynesville (IS-131A)
Helias Catholic (GSAC)

I think all other known Missouri tournaments are in the list.
I think I have Orchard Farms listed as the NE site. I've added the other three listed here, as well as a couple of IHSSBCA Kickoff sites I missed. Loyola Ultima's national bracket or whatever is already in here, I just haven't made that clear in the tournament naming.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by ScoBo »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:I think I have Orchard Farms listed as the NE site.
Do you have the actual NE site at Kirksville then?
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by NikhilSethi »

Stats for ATTACK III at Centennial(BELLOCO) were just posted.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by KnicksRule »

Connecticut Invitational V held at E.O. Smith on Feb 22nd
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I've got ATTACK.

Please include links to the stats for my convenience.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by High Dependency Unit »

KnicksRule wrote:Connecticut Invitational V held at E.O. Smith on Feb 22nd
I don't believe there is a combined file for the stats.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by KnicksRule »

Abhinav Kurada
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Captain '13-'16
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by High Dependency Unit »

He would have to calculate a combined ppb for prelims+playoffs.
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Re: HSQBRank 2013-2014: Witty Subtitle

Post by AKKOLADE »

I can do that math.
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