Tennessee '13-'14

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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

Houston A and Collierville A's PPBs at the WSHS tournament were quite impressive, perhaps even good enough to break into the top 100 in the Morlan ranking (both had just one round that dropped them below the 25 PPB threshold too). MUS A is also up there and the stats WSHS posted leave out their 500+ point shellacking of Germantown B in the prelims. I would be very curious to see a Germantown B-Collierville B matchup at some point for the title of best B team in the area. We shall see, however, how well these PPBs hold up once the difficulty gets scaled up at bit at our JAMES mirror or any IS tournaments people attend. WSHS also has yet to play these local teams and I'm very interested in seeing a Houston A-WSHS A matchup.

Ezell is still clearly the favorite for the rest of the state, but Farragut seems to have recovered nicely from its graduation losses and is training up some solid B and C teams. Oak Ridge has an excellent PPB average, but I think they're probably overrated in the Morlan rankings for now.

If the West TN contingent can continue to improve and scale up to higher difficulty, I expect a dogfight at the state tournament or any Middle TN tournaments.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

Chris, I agree with your assessments so far. I don't know the exact stat adjustment for IS-131A. but it's quite possible that those teams would be ranked.
I'd also like to point out USN as another of the top teams- they haven't lost anyone, got 306 PPG/19PPB on an IS set last year at ABC, and they managed 42 powers on a relatively accessible JAMES set without 2 (3?) of their top players. Hume-Fogg is coming along as they have lost most of their A-team yet managed to get a respectable 400+ PPG and 19.44 PPB on HSAPQ 42.
1.
The more I think about the three grand divisions qualifying tournaments idea, the more I like it. Take the top two from each division tournament for a "Super Six" state competition. It'd be a great chance for some friendly regional rivalries to form and would be neat to PR to a wider audience.
I'd support this, although I think a high school would have to host in most regions (or maybe another university? I think UT Knoxville, Belmont, and UMemphis like to host academic events and we already have contacts/former players at both UMemphis and UTK). This way, Oak Ridge and other high schools that have trouble with staying overnight don't have to worry about the usual-length, nearby regional components.

2. Many schools find ways to circumvent the 4 tournament rule by including state of the past year (as the state they seek to qualify for) and then Quizbusters, NHBB, and Ezell-Harding or something else. Most schools that WANT to attend state find ways to do so even though Farragut and Oak Ridge didn't last year.
The problem is making it a REAL state championship. I have a staggering 173 email contacts of schools that actively played quizbowl (about 100 are non-pyramidal) in the past year. I'll be generous here: the field for state should be about 36 schools, but it's never even been half of that- and that's after Tracy emails everyone, and schedules a date that may or may not conflict with another tournament! Many of the qualifying schools don't even show up.
Why?
People don't take state seriously because of a few things, including the 10/0, worksheet, 10/10, no power/neg, no stats format, the lack of prestige (maybe notoriety is the right word here), and oftentimes slow or just plain bad moderating -take no offense, Rotary volunteers- but we need to find another, more effective pool of moderators and stop wasting their time!

3. Moderator/statskeeper trainings are long overdue in this state and we all see benefits in making this happen. We all know a tournament or two that has been held up (or could just use more skill in pronouncing hard words or increasing the pace of the game) at ________(name TN tournament here).

4. I think TACA desperately needs an advisory committee made of experienced pyramidal quizbowl coaches and organizers in order to:
  • Improve outreach (this would be recruitment efforts, publicity about state, and publicity about tournaments in general- a single website really isn't enough)
    Improve communications
    Improve the quality of the state tournament (allowing B teams, good moderating, 20/20 format, real stats, and so on)
    Improve preparedness of teams for nationals (that want to go to nationals)
Heck, even give the teams who want to qualify for nationals (but can't) the means of doing so!- most teams aren't aware of the best studying methods or categories of their own players.

NCASA and MOQBA, I believe, operate more or less on this model (everything above, including regionals, good stats, experienced collegians or other adults moderating) and they have been quite successful in getting teams to go to real tournaments, and developing the talent in their states.
I know Tracy has dozens of responsibilities at this point and I'd definitely be willing to help him- I'm sure there are many, many others who would too.
Tracy, how does any of this sound to you? Improvement is basically contingent on you. Even if coaches might not see direct benefits in any of these things, which is what you say you base your course of action on, the long term benefits will be quite apparent in say 2015 when we have 10 teams or so go to HSNCT and possibly 24 go to state.

In fact, according to Chris,
there are rumors of the West TN coaches just ignoring TACA and starting their own organization/championship.
This would be horrible for the "state" tournament and probably good quizbowl in general in Tennessee, considering that the 100 or so schools that play Edit: AUK are ALL in West TN.

So, Tracy, the decisions are yours to make here. Either ask for help or face one or even multiple new organizations with their own formats and rules, to the detriment of TACA, "state", and likely good quizbowl.

Also, there will be Vanderbilt hosting dates up by the 1st of December and thorough emails to all teams in Tennessee and surrounding areas to follow.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Cheynem »

The state format does not sound like the perfect format but it's not unfair; the key here would be not changing the format, but improving outreach.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by asdfryan123 »

cchiego wrote: Ezell is still clearly the favorite for the rest of the state, but Farragut seems to have recovered nicely from its graduation losses and is training up some solid B and C teams. Oak Ridge has an excellent PPB average, but I think they're probably overrated in the Morlan rankings for now.
I may be a bit of a homer, but I think both Oak Ridge and Farragut could compete with Ezell-Harding.

The problem with Oak Ridge is they've only competed with their full squad to one tournament (UK Fall), where they performed quite well, defeating Chattahoochee and DCC A while losing competitive matches against Dupont Manual A and Northmont. Although I'd agree Oak Ridge's 7th place ranking is a bit high, I think their performance at that tournament warrants at least a ranking near the 15-25 range, which is also where I'd put Ezell-Harding and Farragut.

Other than that, they've only attended two other pyramidal tournaments. At Ezell-Harding they were without Will Mason, who is far and away the best player on the team. From what I hear, they still came close to beating a very good USN squad. At Central Magnet none of their seniors (who are also their top 3 scorers) were there, and they still performed quite admirably with what was essentially their B squad.

As for the state tournament, the reason that teams like Oak Ridge don't attend is not the lack of prestige or the unconventional format, but rather the fact that it's an overnight tournament. As a club, I don't think Oak Ridge's team has enough money to attend a national tournament AND an overnight state tournament. I also never understood why the state tournament, which normally draws just 8-12 teams, has to be a 2-day event. I think if the state tournament were restricted to a 1-day event, it would increase the likelihood of teams with lower budgets attending, thus making it a truer state tournament. Imagine a 2014 state tournament where Houston, WSHS, Germantown, USN, Ezell-Harding, Hume-Fogg, Oak Ridge, and Farragut all showed up? What a field that would be!

Nevertheless, I'm really impressed with the activism and ability of current Tennessee teams -- I'm pretty sure this is the most active scene that Tennessee has had in many years.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

asdfryan123 wrote:As for the state tournament, the reason that teams like Oak Ridge don't attend is not the lack of prestige or the unconventional format, but rather the fact that it's an overnight tournament.
I did not realize this. That's another added random inconvenience and disincentive to attend, since it basically means everyone in West TN would have to take a day off school for it.
asdfryan123 wrote:The problem with Oak Ridge is they've only competed with their full squad to one tournament
I also didn't realize that Oak Ridge had been missing its top player so often (again, a problem with TN tournaments that dont keep full stats). When will we finally get a direct Ezell-Oak Ridge matchup? '

We still have one slot left if any Middle/East TN teams want to drive on over for our JAMES mirror on Dec. 7th and experience West TN hospitality.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

Here's the announcement for the Vanderbilt ABC. Any coaches, players, or otherwise experienced adults, feel free to head over to Nashville and help us host by moderating or keeping stats for us so we can expand the field.
http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =1&t=15239

There may be a possible Prison Bowl mirror on 5/3 for a pre-nats like tournament, but we're still working out the details on that so stay tuned.

Ryan, we all would benefit if State were a one-day event (or, under Chris's plan, the final component of the state tournament). Perhaps, if the situation doesn't improve, Vanderbilt could make a host bid for the IS-136 set (or whichever next year's state set happens to be) and regularize the tournament. Just another thing for Tracy to consider.
Just a few other notes: statistics are so rare here that they are a form of outreach i.e. many active players in the state keep track of tournament results or even general order of finish announcements like http://www.thewebbschool.com/news/detai ... oduleID=36.
Also, most tournaments in Tennessee only guarantee 5 rounds of play or are single-elimination.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

I hope some teams from TN will attend PACE-NSC; Farragut's looking into it. Also, has anyone considered forming a NASAT team?
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

Rumour is that Ezell may go as well.
Yes, there is a possibility for tryouts on 2/22/14 (the day of our tournament) at Vanderbilt using DRAGOON, but that is uncertain, as we don't know if we'll have the kind of money to reimburse the fee. I think what we might do is arrange transport for the team and pay part of the registration fee depending on how much we make/have left in our account. So the rest could be split up among the players, which shouldn't be too bad.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

Is there any consensus on what packet/format to use for the tryouts?
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Citizen Snips »

What's the likelihood of the second Memphis History Bowl? USN might be interested in trying to qualify a bit earlier for nationals.
While I'm at it:
I wholeheartedly endorse the idea of a one-day state championship.

Also ,perhaps, we could try to host some novice tournaments, with, you know, field restrictions. I know that Lincoln County does this, but I would like to see more tournaments do it as well.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Great Bustard »

intheshadowofgreatness wrote:What's the likelihood of the second Memphis History Bowl? USN might be interested in trying to qualify a bit earlier for nationals.
TN NHBB States will be at Gallatin HS on Saturday March 15 on A Set. As for a second Memphis History Bowl, I haven't heard back on my last email to the school that had expressed interest. I'll send them one last email last week, but if I don't hear back, I won't continue pressing this. If it doesn't materialize, B Set is being played in Alabama and Eastern Kentucky if teams are able to make a bit of a drive.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

There are too many good/important teams that have Science Bowl or other conflicts on 2/22, so we won't hold NASAT tryouts then. (We also won't change the 2/22 date because there are other conflicts in the weeks before and after, and also since the field is almost full.)
Billy has confirmed that we could use DRAGOON on 5/3/14, the tentative date of our (Vanderbilt's) pre-nationals tournament, for a NASAT tryout.
I will have an announcement about registration, field caps, invitations, fees, and the lot up in a week or so.
Last edited by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

We have now added a JV portion to GATT (Feb. 1st) using the SCOP novice set. We will continue to use JAMES for the Varsity level.

Invitations will be sent out by the end of the week to all teams in the area and we will work to recruit new schools to the traditional KBowl circuit. We will be competing head-to-head with the double-elim, speedcheck Ole Miss tournament, but I encourage all teams that want to play guaranteed 8+ rounds on good questions (instead of guaranteed 2 rounds on bad questions) to come on down.

We will host another tournament later sometime in April, likely using an NAQT set (though not sure which one yet since the sets may change if new tournaments get added).
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

The All-West TN band competition just announced its concert date and it, unfortunately, happens to fall on Feb. 1st. Given that half our team will likely be there, we can't run our tournament on that date.

Since I've heard the possible History Bowl at St Benedict isn't happening, we'll take the January 25th date now for our GATT.

The good news is that this lessens the conflicts with other TN and MS tournaments. Any other TN teams that have not yet heard JAMES are welcome to come play or send their JV teams for our JV portion on SCOP.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

I've been meaning to respond to some posts in this thread.
Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin wrote: People don't take state seriously because of a few things, including the 10/0, worksheet, 10/10, no power/neg, no stats format
You don't need powers or negs. You don't really need stats and they'd be nice to have, but let's get a tournament running smoothly first. A format with a worksheet isn't inherently bad. A format with a reasonable number of tossups with bonuses is fine.
3. Moderator/statskeeper trainings are long overdue in this state and we all see benefits in making this happen. We all know a tournament or two that has been held up (or could just use more skill in pronouncing hard words or increasing the pace of the game) at ________(name TN tournament here).
This isn't some TACA-only problem. It's very wide spread, and isn't going to really be solved by
So, Tracy, the decisions are yours to make here. Either ask for help or face one or even multiple new organizations with their own formats and rules, to the detriment of TACA, "state", and likely good quizbowl.
I'm not sure, given your comments up thread, that you have a proper understanding of what good and bad quiz bowl is. As such, I'd suggest making sure you do understand them before you try to replace an extant organization and possibly set back quiz bowl in a state even further.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

I understand your first three points, Fred.
What I do recall from my years playing state was that the moderators made matches excessively long and somewhat confusing- that's why I suggested replacing them-- in the case that state was reduced to one day and the field were expanded (there are now 25! members, including Oak Ridge and Farragut, and I have no idea how many more will go to state), it would save lots of time and hassle to have effective moderators. Fortunately for the projected two-day format, really long matches don't really impact people's plans to go home because most teams are nearby and forced to leave school Friday and find hotel lodgings in Cookeville for the night and then also give up their Saturday playing 5 or so rounds...

I see now that Tennessee probably needs EDIT:a[nother] SCOP Novice mirror early next [school] year and more NAQT/HSAPQ sets being played, regardless of format, in "deficient" areas like Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Memphis, although each has at least one good tournament in the immediate vicinity.

When I quoted Chris about West TN coaches making their own organization, I meant the coaches at MUS and St. George's who (annually?) host and play AUK/QU and show up to one or two NAQT events (there are obviously more coaches in the area who would ostensibly join that organization, but not all/not many understand the importance of pyramidality or similarly why AUK and QU/QG are bad). I never said I would try to replace?destroy? TACA or even "set back quiz bowl" or anything close to that.

I'm obviously not going to try to make quizbowl worse- I only wish to help TACA to a point where it's growing, self-sustaining, and provides a comprehensive state championship with significant outreach and regular communications being made, at least between Tracy and school coaches. Once we get to that point we can work on other things, like spreading the workload and having an advisory committee (which is already in TACA's defunct website charter! http://www.freewebs.com/tacahomepage/tacacharter.html)- it's quite unreasonable to expect one teacher to do everything single-handedly.

And, as I said before, we in the Vanderbilt club is willing, if not eager, to help with these goals. It is very possible to get new or previously dormant teams interested in playing- just look at this unique field so far : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15239. I'd be willing to do extensive work with the 150+ contacts I have to try and get people to go to state, but they'd have to contact Tracy to become members of TACA first, meet the requirements, and pay the fees.
We still await Tracy's word.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by ryanrosenberg »

The UNC Quiz Bowl team would like to invite interested Tennessee teams to the Carolina Spring Tournament on March 22nd. It is intended as a warmup for HSNCT or NSC, and so we'll be using the NAQT Division II SCT set and using timed rounds in order to simulate HSNCT as much as possible. I think the University of Kentucky is also planning on using the same set, but if you can't make it to their tournament, or would like to play some teams from farther afield, we'd love to have you in Chapel Hill in March.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Great Bustard »

NHBB lined up an East TN site today by dint of rather odd circumstances. Basically, a school, Anderson County HS in Clinton, TN, wanted to host a history quiz tournament and had gone to the trouble of doing outreach, though they hadn't heard of NHBB until a few days ago when Farragut clued them in. Anyway, long story short, the only date that worked was 3/29. I realize that that is not ideal with the TACA tournament that day as well, but it was basically that day at Anderson County, or no East TN tournament for NHBB at all this year. It may be that quizbowl teams gravitate more towards our TN State tournament on 3/15 on A set at Gallatin, but in any event, we now have a second tournament on the calendar which will run on B Set for 3/29 at Anderson County High School in Clinton.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

That's no good, Dave.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

The more I think about this, the more ridiculous this is. You're seriously running a regional history bowl against a state championship, particularly in a state that is struggling? At a site 95 miles from the state championship?

The entire month of April is unclaimed. March 8th and 15th are both unclaimed. March 22nd is only claimed by a Memphis tournament, which is almost 6 hours from Clinton, TN. And even if somehow those seven dates didn't work, every single Sunday is still on the table.

This is asinine, Dave. Get your head straight.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

Bolton's tournament happened today on IS-133A.

1. MUS A
2. White Station A
3. Houston A
4. Germantown A

Full stats including both the scoring system Bolton used and regular scoring will be forthcoming in a week or so once I get a chance to enter the scoresheets into SQBS.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Cheynem »

I agree with Fred, I find this scheduling very very poorly thought out.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Great Bustard »

Fred, I'd appreciate it if you at least asked me for an explanation before telling me I don't have my head on straight. That said, here's an explanation. First, I was basically resigned to not having an NHBB site at all for East Tennessee this year. We did have one last year, at Farragut, so in particular, since we've had one before, I'd like to have one again. The problem with Farragut was that while their team was all for hosting again, their administration, for reasons unknown, had no interest in hosting again. So Farragut was out. I had then approached one of the other schools that came last year, Sullivan South, about the prospect of hosting instead. They initially expressed interest, but then, over the course of several months, didn't respond to multiple follow up emails I was sending. After that, I had basically accepted we wouldn't have an East TN site this year. Could I have looked harder for one? Sure, I suppose, but since I am directly overseeing about 120 events around the world this year, at a certain point I have to pick my battles.
This past week, though, I found out, through Farragut's team, in fact, that a group of students and faculty at Anderson County High School wanted to run a history quiz tournament, and had in fact already sent out invitations to it (originally scheduled for 6pm on a Thursday night). They were even calling it a history bowl for further confusion. I spoke at length with the students at the school this week, and they quickly agreed that affiliating the tournament with NHBB was a better way to go, since it would be far less work on their part, and would that way would also be run with the only pyramidal high school history questions in use.
Regarding the date, as mentioned, they were at first thinking of doing this on a weekday evening, which is a bad idea for obvious timing reasons. They also quickly agreed that a Saturday date would be far better. Frankly, I was very impressed that it took so little convincing, and was excited that we would be able to get an East TN host after all. As far as a date went, I told them that it would need to be on a Saturday in March, that wasn't March 15, which was our TN States date at Farragut. March 1 they thought was too soon, and their building was booked on 3/8 and 3/22, even though I lobbied for those dates because of the conflict on 3/29. For that matter, 3/29 isn't ideal for us either, since it's basically right on the cusp of our Nationals registration deadline. But April is out of the question, since that's after the registration deadline, and I personally need to be focusing on Nationals then. And Sundays, in the Bible Belt, are non-starters as well.
That leaves 3/29, which is basically the only possible date. As I've stated before, date conflicts are far more of a problem if there's a logical way around them. Here, I do not see that happening, particularly because this was the only date the school gave me as an option. Given that the host school is set on hosting something, and has already been doing outreach to neighboring schools, many of whom have no experience of quizbowl, do you want them running an event on bad questions that isn't logistically well thought out, or having a tournament that runs well and could serve as a catalyst for further quizbowl growth in the area? Furthermore, 3/29 is currently free on my calendar, and if needed, I would go down and run it to ensure a well-run tournament.
As for conflicts with quizbowl teams, last year, only Oak Ridge, Sullivan South, and Farragut attended our East TN site. Oak Ridge, I would imagine, will still go to the NAQT event. Sullivan South, I have no idea, since they haven't responded to my recent emails. That leaves Farragut, who told me they'd send 1 JV team to Anderson County for NHBB, and send their Varsity team to the NAQT state event. And not to run it simply so that Farragut's JV team can also go to NAQT states is a bit non-democratic, if Farragut prefers to send a JV team to NHBB,
So, on balance, it's either maybe 1 extra team at the NAQT state tournament and NHBB helping to spread good quizbowl in TN vs. not having an NHBB East TN site and/or having a non-NHBB history bowl run as a housewrite by an inexperienced school or from a non-pyramidal provider. I admit the situation isn't ideal, and wherever possible, I always try and avoid date conflicts. But a little perspective is in order here, and while you still might not really like this as a setup, I don't think this qualifies as asinine either.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

Standard-winged Nightjar wrote:So, on balance, it's either maybe 1 extra team at the NAQT state tournament and NHBB helping to spread good quizbowl in TN vs. not having an NHBB East TN site and/or having a non-NHBB history bowl run as a housewrite by an inexperienced school or from a non-pyramidal provider.
No, it's "either not opposing a state championship using good questions" vs. "undermining that state championship so the 263rd regional history bowl of the year can occur."

I'm also running a Sunday tournament in the Bible Belt and have drawn 17 teams with a month and a half to go before the tourney and without doing heavy recruitment.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote: I'm also running a Sunday tournament in the Bible Belt and have drawn 17 teams with a month and a half to go before the tourney and without doing heavy recruitment.
I feel like the biggest problem with hosting on Sunday in certain areas would be the approval of authorities and the recruitment of staff. Hosting a Sunday event on a large college campus in Lexington (which is not exactly the most culturally conservative place in the world) is quite a bit different than a high school in rural East Tennessee hosting one.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 »

I was under the impression that you can only bring one team to TACA so our JV team would have had to stay home instead of playing a quizbowl tournament. As for Sunday I'm fairly certain we wouldn't be able to attend.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Great Bustard »

So basically, if Farragut decides to send their JV to TACA, then the likely net impact of the E TN NHBB on TACA is nil. Meanwhile, the E TN NHBB (which is likely to be rather small anyway) would give, let's say 20-40 kids likely their first quizbowl experience, basically all of whom would not be going to TACA anyway. Given that we have a host that wants to run this, I really don't see how canceling this or deaffiliating it from NHBB is going to be in the best interest of teams in the area. Also, Fred, I find it odd that on the one hand you're so concerned about this, and then on the other hand, you're dismissive of this being NHBB #263 (as if East TN teams are somehow less entitled to their own event than anyone else). Also, if TN is "struggling" for quizbowl/NAQT, then isn't evident by this: http://hsnct.wordpress.com/ which lists at least 6 schools from TN with a shot at making playoffs (I couldn't find a full list of TN schools). And that's before the resurgence of the West TN circuit this year. On the other hand, NHBB Nationals last year only counted Farragut, USN, and MLK Magnet (the latter of which was a 1 student team who has since graduated). So, it would be odd to say that NAQT/TACA/non-NHBB quizbowl is somehow threatened while implying that NHBB is somehow taking over the world or at least the Volunteer State.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:I feel like the biggest problem with hosting on Sunday in certain areas would be the approval of authorities and the recruitment of staff.
That's fair, if Madden checked on these.
Standard-winged Nightjar wrote:So basically, if Farragut decides to send their JV to TACA, then the likely net impact of the E TN NHBB on TACA is nil. Meanwhile, the E TN NHBB (which is likely to be rather small anyway) would give, let's say 20-40 kids likely their first quizbowl experience, basically all of whom would not be going to TACA anyway.
Because telling them "hey, you should go to your state championship instead of trying to wedge in a history bowl here" obviously isn't an option.
Also, Fred, I find it odd that on the one hand you're so concerned about this, and then on the other hand, you're dismissive of this being NHBB #263 (as if East TN teams are somehow less entitled to their own event than anyone else).
This isn't really hard to see at all. You're keeping teams from going to the state championship so you can run another regional history bowl. It's the state championship. Is this that hard to understand?
Also, if TN is "struggling" for quizbowl/NAQT, then isn't evident by this: http://hsnct.wordpress.com/ which lists at least 6 schools from TN with a shot at making playoffs (I couldn't find a full list of TN schools).
That's not a measure of how a circuit is doing. Tennessee is the 17th most populous state. I currently have stats for 30 schools. It's a state that, as best as I can tell, has 8 good tournaments a year. There's also a lot fewer teams participating than 10 years ago. That's what a struggling circuit is.
On the other hand, NHBB Nationals last year only counted Farragut, USN, and MLK Magnet (the latter of which was a 1 student team who has since graduated). So, it would be odd to say that NAQT/TACA/non-NHBB quizbowl is somehow threatened while implying that NHBB is somehow taking over the world or at least the Volunteer State.
I'm stating that it's bad for everyone for you to run a history bowl against a state championship? Why is this so hard to understand? If anything, you should be helping the state championship thrive. You aren't.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Citizen Snips »

I too think this is ridiculous, but ,Mr. Morlan, I want to make sure that you are aware of the four tournament requirement. In order to qualify for state, teams must compete at a minimum of four events, placing in the top quarter of the field at at least one of them. Teams also have to pay a $10 registration fee or at the beginning of the year. This means that no nascent teams(such as Anderson County) can attend the state tournament.

Also, I would like to stress that the state tournament does not allow more than one team per school. So, as Daniel said above, Farragut's JV couldn't attend anyway.
So, technically, Mr. Madden is not keeping any teams from attending the state tournament because of the state tournament's weird requirements.
Edit: Dictation software = typos
Last edited by Citizen Snips on Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

That does make a difference. Thanks for that clarification, Jesse.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Yeah I don't see a major issue with the NHBB tournament running on that date considering it's likely to attract new teams, young teams, out-of-state teams, and teams who just weren't able to meet the qualification requirements for TACA State this year.

Obviously the ideal solution is to not have a state tournament with a bunch of regulations that limit the field to something like 8 teams every year, but in the absence of Tennessee running such a tournament, I doubt any NHBB tournament is going to keep teams away from this one.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:Yeah I don't see a major issue with the NHBB tournament running on that date considering it's likely to attract new teams, young teams, out-of-state teams, and teams who just weren't able to meet the qualification requirements for TACA State this year.
If that - aiming only for new teams that wouldn't be attending TACA states - had been the motivation, that would have been the first thing out of Dave's proverbial mouth. It wasn't. Dave's thought process wasn't that, and that's a problem.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

Look, just to be clear and before we start talking about the size of circuits or ex post facto information about qualification systems and so forth: the problem that I have been talking about the past few posts is that good tournaments absolutely should not be competing with other good tournaments for fields. The only place where this might even be reasonable is Chicago-area Illinois, and I don't even think they're there yet.

It's one thing for UTC to host something on the same day that a school near Memphis hosts something; that's defensible because there is likely no field overlap. Holding two quiz bowl events the same day, within less than, say, 2 or 3 hours of each other is not good. It doesn't matter if this is a history bowl, a NAQT event, some housewrite, NASAT tryouts, etc. Despite this forum growing, and many circuits growing, competing against someone else who's running a good tournament is not a good thing.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Great Bustard »

Grams's Go-Go Boots wrote:
Sulawesi Myzomela wrote:Yeah I don't see a major issue with the NHBB tournament running on that date considering it's likely to attract new teams, young teams, out-of-state teams, and teams who just weren't able to meet the qualification requirements for TACA State this year.
If that - aiming only for new teams that wouldn't be attending TACA states - had been the motivation, that would have been the first thing out of Dave's proverbial mouth. It wasn't. Dave's thought process wasn't that, and that's a problem.
Honestly, I really didn't think teams would be looking to go to East TN History Bowl over states in the first place. But this did enter into my thinking - see my above posts about how I didn't really think anyone other than Farragut would be interested in both anyway, and how the Anderson County event could hopefully draw new schools into quizbowl. And that is basically a moot point anyway, since TACA only allows for their Varsity team to attend. In principle, I agree 100% that good quizbowl events should not overlap wherever possible. This is just a very odd set of circumstances that basically means that we have no other option. Anyway, if any TN teams are reading this and have qualified for TACA on 3/29 - go to that (as I expect you would). If you haven't qualified, or have additional teams interested in competing, then they're welcome at Anderson County on 3/29. Ok, hope that's the last post on this I'll need to make. Sorry if anyone took this the wrong way.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

Vanderbilt is hosting a NASAT tryout and a pre-nationals tournament, both on Saturday, April 19th, 2014.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by AKKOLADE »

Hi everyone,

The University of Kentucky is hosting a Pre-Nationals weekend on May 10 and 11th on our campus in Lexington, Kentucky. On Saturday, we'll be using NAQT SCT DII with HSNCT rules, and on Sunday we'll be using the Minnesota Undergraduate Tournament with NSC rules. We may also have some Saturday evening event, though I can't promise that I won't cancel this for my own personal event, "Fred goes to sleep early in between the two quiz bowl tournaments he's running over a weekend."

For more details on fees and such, check our announcement at http://www.hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewto ... =1&t=15460.

I've already been in touch with some Tennessee teams, but we'd really love to have you attend if you can.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

With Vanderbilt on the horizon providing what will essentially be the first tournament in quite some time where multiple teams from every region of TN are represented, it might be a nice time to check in with the different regions.

Houston is probably the best team in West TN still, with impressive depth and real knowledge in a number of areas (especially geography). If they go to HSNCT, they have a good shot at making the playoffs with their strengths playing nicely to NAQT's. WSHS has an emerging B team that could help replace Zach next year, but for now WSHS A is primarily the Zach and Saaber show and probably just a hair behind Houston. MUS has plenty of talent as well, but they are wont to neg themselves to death at inopportune times. When fully loaded and when they keep the negs in check, they are right up there with Houston and WSHS A. I would place ourselves right behind these three for now followed by Collierville, Lausanne, Bolton, and CBHS (if they play their full team).

Bolton is going to be interesting to watch at Vandy as Lance is a rising star in the region (and has plenty of teammate help) and the team seems to be on a consistently upward trajectory. WSHS will have a solid A team as usual, but the regular IS sets don't seem to play to their advantages necessarily. I have no idea how we will do, but we are a better toss-up than bonus team and have pulled off some good wins over top teams this year. Munford has demonstrated a nice commitment to improving this year, but they will probably have a tough time.

Right now the Ezell-Dunbar-Farragut matchups at Vandy seems like the matches of the tournament to look forward to and it will be interesting to see where USN ranks with more of the East and West TN teams in the field.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

cchiego wrote:Right now the Ezell-Dunbar-Farragut matchups at Vandy seems like the matches of the tournament to look forward to and it will be interesting to see where USN ranks with more of the East and West TN teams in the field.
Due to conflicts with regional Science Bowl, half of our A-team and our entire B-team's lineups are missing; However, our junior varsity players have stepped up their game, so we still are hoping for a good showing!

In addition, even though Oak Ridge is not going, they are definitely a team to watch out for. Currently the highest ranking Tennessee team on the Morlan rankings,they have the ability to beat anyone as evidenced by their victories over DCCA and Chattahoochee. Oak Ridge, along with Farragut, will be attending the Bobcat Challenge on Saturday (2-15) on the GSAC set, so those matches will be interesting. Even though half of Oak Ridge's lineup will be gone, their top scorer (and 17th and HSNCT overall last year) William Mason will be attending. He has a very low neg rate and can get tossups on anyone in any subject.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

This is a reminder to Tennessee teams that WKU is hosting our spring tournament, ARTIST, on April 5 in Bowling Green, KY. We're about an hour north of Nashville, so pretty close to most of you, and the event is a mirror of the excellent LIST set that I don't believe is currently being mirrored in Tennessee. Those of you who would like to play on April 5, but can't attend Germantown's tournament due to having already heard the set, would find ARTIST to be an ideal event I believe.

Teams can register for ARTIST by emailing us at [email protected]
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

Vandy happened today. The only definitive result to come of this tournament was the continued dominance of Ezell-Harding over the TN circuit. They have improved a tremendous amount, and no team provided any real challenge to their dominance (their closest match was against Farragut where they won by 150). It seems very likely that Ezell-Harding will retain the title of state champion. With the level of play I saw out of them today, I would not be surprised with a t-13 or higher ranking at HSNCT.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Victor_Gardner »

At the risk of reviving a dead forum, the WSHS quizbowl tournament is now on April 19 and using IS-130 ans MS-10 (both middle and high school sections.)
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by cchiego »

I received an email informing me that voting was open for an all-state team. Unfortunately, a number of excellent players were left off the list.

Here would be my ballot for an all-state team:

1. Kai (Farragut) - While not quite a one-man team, Farragut's success at tournaments this year is even more impressive considering just how much of the scoring has been shouldered by one player.
2. Griffin (Ezell) - Incredible power percentage and P/N ratio. Will be interesting to see how he and the rest of Ezell adjust to the tougher questions at HSNCT.
3. Will (Oak Ridge) - One excellent tournament at WKU, but seems to be on the whole slightly behind the other two.
4. Jesse (USN) - I have not seen him play, but others have told me of his strong CE abilities and his stats on a fairly stacked USN A team speak well to both depth and breadth.
5. Austin (Ezell) - Don't be fooled by the stats; putting up these kinds of points behind another excellent player is very hard to do. May even deserve to be a bit higher.
6. Arunadh (Houston) - The best player of a very strong all-around Houston team that sadly has not traveled. Could be the best geography player in the state.
7. Zach (White Station) - Stats have gone down a bit as his teammates have improved this year, but still a solid all-around player who can buzz in basically every category.
8a. Pavel (Hume Fogg) - Very difficult to tell how well he's done this year as far too many tournaments still don't keep full stats, but his past record and Hume's performance this year seem about right.
8b. Aditya (MUS) Another good all-around player with a particular strength in geography as well. Again, would like to see out there at more tournaments.

Also: There is still an IS-A set (135A) left for the state to use! If someone wanted to run a JV-only (sophomore and below) tournament, we would be very interested in attending depending on the date.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Chimalpahin Quauhtlehuanitzin »

The all-state team is essentially an honorific, because what usually happens is they get plaques and a photo together. What these players should really do is come to NASAT tryouts and hopefully go to NASAT with Team Tennessee!
Chris, if you had the individual contacts of those West TN players and wouldn't mind sending them to me, that would be tremendous.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Rococo A Go Go »

Tennessee teams who can make it should really try to attend ARTIST at WKU on April 5. We run an efficient format that will get teams a lot of games, and this year we're mirroring the excellent LIST question set that is highly regarded for its question quality and accessibility. Teams can do themselves a big service by attending late season tournaments like ARTIST, not only in preparing for end-of-season national tournaments, but in preparing for the next season.

I know the date isn't ideal for everyone, and I wish we could accommodate everybody, but there has to be a decent amount of schools out there who are able to attend our event on April 5. If you have any questions or would like to register, please email us at [email protected]

I really look forward to seeing a lot of you in Bowling Green in a month.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

Tennessee has a very strong circuit this year. With Nationals almost upon us, here are my predictions for HSNCT. I have provided Fred's rankings and what I believe will be each team's record.

1. Ezell Harding (27): Ezell has been the perennial powerhouse of TN quizbowl. With an undefeated record at Vanderbilt ABC (the most comprehensive event this season), Ezell proved their dominance against USN and Farragut, beating both and atttaining an overall margin of 541 (!!!) points. They also have a ridiculous power/neg ratio (their ABC statline for 7 rounds was 70-45-9). Griffin has also proved his mettle as a solo player, getting 3rd at UK Spring. Their only weakness is science, and if they can master it, they could be a top ten team.
Predicted record; 10-5 or 9-5 for t-13 or t-21.

2. USN (128), Oak Ridge (19), and Farragut (17) are all around the same strength, and matchup with full lineups has yet to occurred (we will have to wait for State). USN gets a significant NAQT boost with Jesse's dominance of CE, and they graduated no one from last year, making an improvement on their 7-5 and t-50 record record seem inevitable.
Oak Ridge graduate Katie last year, but retain Aram, Gaibo, and their primary scorer Will (17th overall at HSNCT individually last year). The only time they have played together with a full squad, they beat Chattahoochee and DCC, but they lost to us twice without Gaibo at the Bobcat Challenge. If Oak Ridge attends HSNCT, they will definitely be a contender
Farragut is very packet dependent and very bad at NAQT (unlike most of the other teams on this list) due to ZERO knowledge of CE, Geo, or Trash and a concentration in Fine Arts and Literature. However, with a full squad, we may be a able to do some damage at HSCNT. Also, as the only TN team registered for PACE (Oak Ridge has not submitted their deposit), we hope to do well there too.
Predicted record (for all 3): 8-5 for t-33

3. Hume Fogg (164): This team is very good, and still has Pavel, who puts up good stats. However, they have only attended one tournament this year, where they placed second to Farragut essentially due to negging 5-6 tossups that round. Last year at HSCNT they went 6-5, but they have new talent from their JV team who are studying and improving.
Predicted record: 7-5 for t-50

4: White Station (187): They are very strong at some subjects including science (which no TN team really covers exceptionally well), but they are lacking in bonus conversion. This is their first year at HSNCT.
Predicted record: 6-5 or 5-5

5: Germantown (UR): They put up 21 PPB on an ISA set and 16.5 PPB on an IS set, so they are not bad. This will also be their first year attending HSNCT
Predicted record: 5-5

6: Germantown B (UR): I have no idea.

I did not mention Farragut B (107), Houston (121), Memphis University School (167), or Collierville (172) as they have not signed up for HSNCT. State will be the first representative tournament where all of the top teams will be at full strength.

Also, anyone interested should definitely tryout for Tennessee's first NASAT team.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15486&p=274580&hilit=nasat#p274580

If you do not know what NASAT is, view the link below

http://www.hsapq.com/nasat2014
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 »

Yesterday was the Tennessee History Bowl and Bee State Championships. Thanks to Gallatin High School and Brian Hoover for a well run History Bowl. Congratulations to Ezell Harding and USN for finishing first and second and for an exciting final that Ezell won 290-280. Both teams are extremely good and I feel both could go deep into the playoffs at Nationals if they do go. Congratulations to Gallatin for finishing second in JV Bowl.
Congratulations also to Griffin Ray(Ezell) and Jesse Bennett(USN) for finishing first and second in Varsity Bee, which Griffin won 6-5. Both are excellent history players and both could do very well in Nationals at Bee. Congratulations also to Noah Butler(Gallatin) for finishing second in JV Bee, Yongyu Chen(Farragut) for finishing third, and Jordan Allen(Gallatin) for finishing fourth. Lastly congratulations to Yongyu Chen and Kevin Hong(Farragut) for finishing first and second in Geography Olympiad!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by Citizen Khan »

To my knowledge, Ezell won't be attending NHBB this year--USN, however, will.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by gimmedatguudsuccrose »

Here are the results for TACA state:

1. Hume Fogg
2. Ezell Harding
3. Farragut
4. USN
5. Battle Ground Academy
6. Cookeville
7.Gallatin
8. Webb
9. Columbia

Congratulations to Hume-Fogg for going undefeated! As always with TACA, stats were not kept except for final scores and the format was quite wonky. There were three thirds; the first was 10 tossups with no bonuses, the second was a worksheet worth up to 150 points, and the third was 10 tossups with bonuses. All tossups had neither powers nor negs and there were bouncebacks. The set was IS-136.
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by johntait1 »

Thanks to Anderson County High School for hosting and Rohan Nag for directing the East Tennessee History Bowl. Farragut had a great time!
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Re: Tennessee '13-'14

Post by TSIAJ »

White Station High School's tournament happened today, with only four teams competing in the MS section. A big congratulations on a successful and well-run tournament to Victor Gardner!

Central Magnet only took one team, with one B-team player subbing in for a main team player who could not make it. We took the first place title undefeated, and White Station A followed closely behind. Maumelle from Arkansas took third and White Station B took fourth.

I can only speak for the MS section, but I was pleasantly surprised by the level of playing from all teams, especially Maumelle, which only started playing competitively in November.

Also congratulations to the top three scorers: Shawn Zheng, Connor Hofoditz, and Milenko Petrovic.

Source: http://www.naqt.com/stats/tournament-te ... playoffs=1
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