04-05 Alabama Teams

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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

I've gotten to the point where I just don't know who could win ASCA besides Grissom. They've won 3 of the last 4, and 5 of the last 7. I think they take it all again, and continue to dominate the ASCA format, although the Brindlee Mountain kids will probably end the dynasty in 2 years.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Grissom obviously has that mysterious power when it comes to ASCA... I do wish that they would go to an NAQT-style tournament or one of the UTC tournaments. I'd love to see if they are that good on longer, pyramidal questions.

Honestly, though, the more I look at the teams that are going to be there, the more I'm unsure of the outcome. In reality, though, I think that there are only about 5 teams that are within reach. Those five being Grissom, Indian Springs, LAMP, Brindlee Mountain, and Cullman.

I think that those 5 (assuming a perfect [yeah, right], world in which the pools will allow it), will probably make the play-offs. At that point, it may just depend on who plays who and when...

We're 3-0 against Springs this year and 5-1 against Cullman. So, theoretically, if it came down to us and one of those, we might win.

However, LAMP has our number for sure, so if we were seeded so that we had to play them early in the single-elimination, it might not turn out so well for us.

Cullman has had an incredibly lucky streak, so they might be able to keep that alive until the championship match, but I just can't see them beating Indian Springs (though I couldn't see them beating Grissom, LAMP, or CCA, either).

I think that there is a good chance that it will be Grissom and Indian Springs in the championship round, in which case I sorta think this might be Indian Springs's year. However, if it came down to LAMP and Grissom, I'd say its 50/50 to the outcome.

Or, JCIB might win... I figure they're way past due.

- Just more of my mindless yammering and conjecturing...
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Post by DVader »

At the last two ASCA states I've seen Grissom pull off some pretty crazy stuff in the playoffs. Two years ago in their quarterfinal match against Clay-Chalkville they were behind the entire game until the last round when they got on fire and answered almost all the questions in that round, securing their win. Then they proceeded to beat us (Bob Jones) and Russellville to win the championship. Last year they were the 3rd seed in their pool but managed to beat CCA, LAMP, and then Russellville again in a closely contested game where they again won in the final round. Another kinda weird thing about that year was that the 2nd seeds in each pool were eliminated in the quarterfinals and both third seeds beat the first seed teams in the final and consolation matches. Basically, look forward to the same upsets and unpredictability there that we've seen all year. All bets are off.
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Post by steven-lamp »

IMHO, Indian Springs is too unstable to make a run at ASCA. We beat them at Brindlee Mountain's tournament by over 100 points without our 2nd leading scorer (usually gets 40 ppg). They're too streaky to pull it off. Indian Springs and LAMP are the two teams in the state that will somehow do very well all year but never can pull it off at the state level. Cullman's pretty good, but they seem to have hot and cold rounds. Also, Gerrick writes harder questions and Cullman doesn't seem to have tons of depth. Brindlee's thrashed everyone in the state at one time or another, and Grissom always does well. Really, it all depends on the pool drawings. I wish they would just do some sort of pre-rounds with swiss pairings to determine the pools like Vanderbilt does at their tournament. I think it would make the pools more even whilst maintaining SOME of the randomness required.
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Post by steven-lamp »

LAMP has registered for the NAQT State tournament at Bevill State on April 23.
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Post by springsyay »

as a member of the iss varsity team (and no, not evan or james), i don't remember you beating us by 100 points. i do remember, however, that both our 2nd and 3rd seat players were not there.

also- to whoever it is with the donnie darko suit in their signature, you have it wrong. it's not "human suit".

the correct quote:
"why are you wearing that stupid MAN suit?"

thank you. see you at state.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Steven made the claim:
We beat them at Brindlee Mountain's tournament by over 100 points
Countered by springsyay, who said
as a member of the iss varsity team (and no, not evan or james), i don't remember you beating us by 100 points.

So who's right? I have the stats on my laptop and will let you know ASAP.

-Lee
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Post by quizbowllee »

LAMP - 260
Indian Springs - 215
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

the thing that would scare me about Springs is that Evan and James are good enough to go off at any time, and if they get hot, they could do a lot of damage. They sound a lot like we did in 2003, a whole lot of talent who never really peaked, but was still able to get to the state finals, where you all know what happened.
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Post by quizbowllee »

I agree with Slade...

While I obviously want Brindlee Mountain to pull this off (and I think we have a shot - even if it is a long one...), if I absolutely HAD to pick a winner (and I was unbiased), I'd pick Indian Springs. We ARE 3-0 against them this year, but all three have been VERY close, and I'm afraid that they are due against us... plus they seem to have killed just about everyone else they've played.
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Post by DVader »

Steven,
How did you get in contact with Bevill State? My friend at Madison Central in MS and St. Andrew's coach want to attend and have emailed him but have gotten no response so far. ASFA won't be attending NAQT State due to conflict with prom and in order to have as much money as possible for PACE.
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

Who's your friend at MCHS (I've seen them this year, they are pretty good)?
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Post by DVader »

Harry Nelson. He's the black haired one on the team. I know most of the other members too.
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

Harry's a pretty good player.

and to steer this thread back on topic, Lee, I'm still picking Grissom to win it all, but I figure that Springs will take our place as second place finisher this year.
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Post by quizbowllee »

We really need an NCAA-style pool for this... But I'm pretty sure I'd get in trouble for pulling a Pete Rose. I figure my bosses wouldn't like that.

Regardless of who wins, I do predict that Evan will be state MVP.

Also, I think the top 4 will be:

Grissom
Indian Springs
LAMP
Brindlee Mountain

Maybe not in that order (but, yeah, probably in that order).
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

1. Grissom
2. Springs
3. LAMP
4. Brindlee
5. Cullman
6. JCIB

As good a guess as I can come up with right now.
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Post by steven-lamp »

I don't know how we got in contact. My coach sent him an e-mail, I think. You might try to look at Bevill's site and get a phone number or something.
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Post by DVader »

He finally got a reply back from Mr. Bobo today. It basically said that the Mississippi and other out of state teams could not compete at NAQT state since that would keep other in-state teams from competing.
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NAQT Natl. Qualifier

Post by PeterGriffin »

We went to a National Qualifier for the NAQT Tournament in Chicago today. It was held at Snead State CC in Boaz.

Results: 1st Place - Brindlee Mountain
2nd Place - Covenant Christian

The 3rd and 4th place teams also qualified, but I don't remember which teams they were.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Yes. The Alabama quiz bowl world has turned upside down! Brindlee Mountain FINALLY beat CCA. And when we did, we did it with style. We also did it twice.

In the prelims, there were 6 pools of 6. We had CCA in our pool. We beat them 430-210.

Despite this, we were seeded numbers 1 and 2 in the playoffs. Both teams plowed through the other finalists to the championship match. In the rematch it was Brindlee Mountain 460; CCA 170.

This proves what I've been saying all along, NAQT is our format.

-Lee
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Post by DVader »

Congrats Lee. What other teams were there?
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Post by quizbowllee »

There were 36 teams there... I'm not sure who, though... Our pool had the following:

Brindlee Mountain
Covenant Christian
Athens Bible
Coosa Christian
Westminster Christian
Westbrook Christian

This was funny, because we had a theory that Brindlee Mountain was incapable of beating a team with the word "Christian" in their name... As we never had before. We broke that curse, though.

The other semifinalist were Southside and Bob Jones.

Other than that, I know that the following schools were there:

Arab, Asbury, DAR, Albertiville, Buckhorn, Sand Rock, Guntersville, Boaz, Randolph...

That's all I know for sure.

At the meeting before the tournament, Mr. Leeth of Snead said that he believed that this was the largest invitational in the state. Is this true? I can't think of a tournament that we've been to that had over 36 teams... Also, there were no "B" teams, so there we actually 36 unique schools represented. We were spread over 4 or 5 buildings, so I'm really not sure who else was there...

-Lee
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Post by quizbowllee »

Good luck to everyone at state tomorrow!
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State

Post by and then I »

May the best team win, and may members of said team send Disney World postcards to 2nd place team, along with Mickey-shaped funnel cakes, to soften the blow. AMEN.
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Re: State

Post by dtaylor4 »

and then I wrote:May the best team win, and may members of said team send Disney World postcards to 2nd place team, along with Mickey-shaped funnel cakes, to soften the blow. AMEN.
I hope your team ends up getting second and you eat your words.
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Post by quizbowllee »

Update from state:

So far, this is what I know:

LAMP has defeated both Grissom and Indian Springs

Brindlee Mountain is currently 2-2. We lost on a tie-breaker to Southside and also to Cullman (sigh...)

Cullman has lost to Baker (who we killed).

Indian Springs has the most points after 4 rounds, but Brindlee Mountain has the second most... Depsite being 2-2.

The last three preliminary rounds tomorrow are gonna decide who makes it, but so far it looks like:

Cullman
Holy Spirit
Brindlee Mountain

LAMP
Indian Springs
Grissom

But again, this is very much dependent on those last 3 rounds tomorrow...
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Post by Neel6989 »

Grissom beat LAMP. Springs, LAMP, and Grissom each have one loss (ISS beat Grissom, Grissom beat LAMP, LAMP Beat springs) So far, springs has highest point total, Grissom had second, and LAMP is third. Unfortunately, the pools are pretty lopsided.
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Post by quizbowllee »

OK - I stand corrected... I thought LAMP had beaten Grissom, but I guess I heard wrong. Also, I did not see the stats after round 5, so I guess some things changed.

At any rate, tomorrow is gonna be interesting. It's still anyone's tournament.

Good luck to all.

-Lee
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Post by Trevkeeper »

How'd the second day go for all you Alabamans?
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Post by DVader »

I heard from one of my friends that in her pool (she's from Florence), Holy Spirit, Southside, and Brindlee Mountain made it to the playoffs. Other than that I have no idea what happened.
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Post by DVader »

Ah, no surprises there.
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Post by steven-lamp »

True dat.

1. Indian Springs
2. Grissom
3. LAMP
4. Brindlee Mountain

Pools (both ended in 3-way ties, with A having 3 teams at 6-1 and B having 3 teams at 5-2)
A
1. Indian Springs
2. Grissom
3. LAMP

B
1. Brindlee Mountain
2. Cullman
3. Holy Spirit

Quarterfinals (1 seeds get a bye)
A3 (LAMP) def. B2 (Cullman)
A2 (Grissom) def. B3 (Holy Spirit)

Semifinals
A1 (ISS) def. A3 (LAMP)
A2 (Grissom) def. B1 (Brindlee Mountain)

Consolation Match
A3 (LAMP) def. B1 (Brindlee Mountain)

Finals
A1 (ISS) def. A2 (Grissom)


I think this was one of the only state tournaments where the top four teams at the tournament actually placed in the top four. Indian Springs was unstoppable after their first round loss to us, and Grissom played well too. We squeaked by Brindlee in the consolation game. Congrats to all teams that competed, with emphasis on Indian Springs, who really surprised me in the playoffs. I was really pulling for them after the knocked us off in the semis.
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Post by Neel6989 »

I have to say, our finals round with Springs was one of, if not the best round we've played in all year.
Last edited by Neel6989 on Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by steven-lamp »

Any comments on state?

I thought the questions were significantly more difficult than last year, but not too inaccessible. The first day was a little slow, but the second day went great. The readers were really good and had great knowledge of the rules. And, while we didn't win, I still had fun.
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Post by Neel6989 »

The questions were good, although I wish they had more math questions, but maybe that's just me. 2-3 per round is kind of ridiculous, especially considering how much math is stressed at Panasonic. The 15-pt round questions were pretty hard, but they're supposed to be, so no complaints there. Same as Steven, even though we didn't win, I'm glad we got to compete.
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Post by Follower of Mr. BrindleeM »

State went alot better than I expected. This was my first year and we got fourth so I'm not complaining. The first day was very slow, but the second day was alot better. I've still got three more years in high school ASCA so I won't be seeing alot of the people I saw this year. Very well run and fun tournament.
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Post by Mr. Brindlee Mountain »

Yep - the State tourney sure was interesting. I don't need to post the final results, they've already been posted a couple of times. I want to congratulate all those who ranked 1st-3rd, ISS, Grissom, and LAMP. The rounds against Grissom and LAMP were the best ASCA rounds we've played all year. Both of them came down to the 15-pointers. Everyone did a great job.
I had hoped for better from BMHS this year, but I suppose for going to state for the first time ever fourth place is a substantial accomplishment.

Also, I want to congratulate the entire Sweet Sixteen who went to State Friday and Saturday... making it to ASCA State is an accomplishment in itself. Good game, everybody.

Our next tournament is Marshall County, we won't be seing any of you guys there. After that we'll be at NAQT State, anyone else going?
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Post by Golden Tiger 86 »

Springs ended the Grissom dynasty? I can honestly say I'm surprised, but I figured Springs would be a tough nut to crack...congrats to Springs, Grissom, LAMP, and Brindlee Mountain on an excellent state tourney, as well as Cullman and Holy Spirit on playoff appearances.
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Post by quizbowllee »

First off, congratulations to Indian Springs for their well-deserved win.

Secondly, I'd like to comment on a few things about the tournament. I thought that as far as ASCA goes, the questions were about as good as they get. I ordered last year's questions and used them in practice quite a bit over the last two weeks, and I actually thought that last year's were harder than this year's...

Also, I still think that ASCA has a long way to go, and I hope that measures can be taken in improve the game so that the BEST team is more likely to win a match over a weaker team. This format - with its inconsistancy, bounce-back bonuses, and the useless worksheet - lends itself to too many upsets. These upsets played a huge part in the tournament this past weekend. I'll never understand how Florence beat Holy Spirit, how Holy Spirit beat Cullman, or how Baker beat Cullman...

BTW - why on earth did this tournament have to last two days? We started at about 2:00 on Friday, went to about 4:30, started again about 9:00 on Saturday, and were done by 3:00. Why couldn't we have started about 9:00 am like most tournaments and finish it all in one day?

That being said, I do agree with Steven that the best four teams there ended up in the top four. I also think, though, that Covenant Christian and ASFA both SHOULD have been there. That would have made for an even more interesting tournament. The number of weak teams there is a shame when considering the number of strong teams that weren't.

Also, while I'm typing this ridiculously long post that I'm sure most of you are bored with by now, I'd like to address Neel's complaint about the amount of math. Personally, I couldn't agree less with him. I wish there had been less math. In fact, I wish there had been NO math. I really feel that computational math has no place in quiz bowl. Questions about great mathematicians or mathematical breakthroughs, theorems, formulas, etc. are all fine. But, if you want to actually DO math, join the math team. I'm not just saying this because math is Brindlee Mountain's weakest area. Even if I had the greatest math player in the world on my team, I still would be against math in quiz bowl. The people who tend to be the hardest core quiz bowlers in the world (ie - the college players) have done away with computational math. I never heard a single math question while playing in several dozen college tournaments over the course of a few years... and I liked it that way. Also, there was no math at our Brindlee Mountain Invitational, and as far as I'm concerned, there never will be. Anyway, enough of that diatribe.

Finally, I just wanted to say publicly how proud I am of my team from Brindlee Mountain. I know that they wanted to win, but I knew in my heart that they wouldn't - not this year. But, they did play very hard, overcame some incredibily bad luck, and finished in the top four. For 3 freshmen and 1 senior playing for a high school that didn't even exist last year, that's pretty impressive. We've got a lot of good years ahead of us, and I really think that our time is coming.

See you at NAQT State on the 23rd!

-Lee
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Post by ASimPerson »

From the impressions I got during my ASCA career, I don't think they're terribly concerned about getting the best 16 teams in the state as they are about getting the most represenation from across the state and helping make sure their system doesn't collapse from schools dropping every year because they can't compete against the big boys.
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Post by ithinkiamsteven »

well, here is my two cents worth on state.
I thought the questions were good, for the most part. they did get fairly difficult in the last few rounds, but that's expected and necessary. my biggest complaint with the questions would have to be the worksheets, most of which were OK, but occasionally they were ridiculous. Most specifically, i refer to the Alabama State _______ (fill in any item here) theme, in which we are apparently supposed to know for our quiz-bowl knowledge what the alabama state saltwater fish is (which we got right--but that's beside the point). i also thought the Bush Administration worksheet was kind of silly, but maybe that's because we did so poorly on it.
I do think, however, that the ASCA tournament went very well in the most important respect: deciding on a state champion. Probably the top four teams at the tournament were in the final 4, as several others have stated. I do wish ASFA and CCA had been there, and maybe even some others, but overall, I think the turnout was a good reflection of the state. I wish we could have won, but hey, we can't win every year. And i don't know if i would say the "dynasty has fallen"--we usually don't win about every 2 or 3 years, since 97 or so. We've now won 5 of the last 8, instead of 5 of the last 7. Apparently we had a history of beating Springs in the finals match (2000 and 2001) but this time we couldn't pull it off. I will make the assertion, however, that we are the best team in the state (emphasizing the word "team"). Evan is the best player by far, one of the best i've seen, and he did well enough, with a little bit of help, to pull out the victory. However, a great player isn't always enough. Look at Slade's Russellville of the past couple years. Slade was also an amazing player, but without any support he could never win that final match. Granted, we're not entirely balanced either, since I'm the highest scorer, but I don't score any more than half of our teams points, and our other three generally split up the rest of the points.
As for math---i'm all for it, and not just because it helps our team. I'm a big fan of one aspect of our city tournaments, and that's the equal division of questions into 5 categories: social studies, math, language arts, science, and fine arts/leisure, with equal numbers of questions in each categories on the tossups. I think it's good to have a balance of the important academic subjects---after all, science and math are important too. The "computational math" in academic team is nothing like that in math team - it's actually much easier, and often requires very little work. Math team math is much more involved and requires a lot of specific knowledge of math, whereas you can do academic team math if you've taken the standard math classes. I'm all for math. It's just as important as any other subject.
I understand that ASCA wants state representation, but let's face it---the best teams are going to be mostly the same, with a little shifting, and if you can't make it through the normal district and regional then you're most likely not going to win state either. And it's almost always going to be a large school, and a school that's done well before. It's ok to do some to help get smaller schools interested, but if you get too many they're going to weaken the field too much.
This has gotten too long now, so i'm going to stop. One last comment is that the Jeff State building where we held the tourney was great, much nicer than NW Shoals, I thought. I hope they keep it there in the future, because it's a better location and a better facility for the most part.
As for future tournaments, we're going to be deciding soon what else we're going to do, I think we're going to try to go to some sort of tournament this summer, but i'm not sure what.
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Post by ithinkiamsteven »

these posts never look as long when you're typing them.
sorry for the length.
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Post by ASimPerson »

ithinkiamsteven wrote:I understand that ASCA wants state representation, but let's face it---the best teams are going to be mostly the same, with a little shifting, and if you can't make it through the normal district and regional then you're most likely not going to win state either.
Jigga-wha? In your standard 4-round regional matchups, the potential for silly upsets is enornmous, especially on ASCA questions (though they are, apparently, a lot better than they were when I was around). Upsets should be able to happen of course (that's why they play the games) but there is a real chance a team that could've won state gets eliminated at regionals every year. (I'm looking at you ISS my senior year, CCA and ASFA this year.) Also, with each team playing 4 rounds at regionals (at least in Arab) there's a real good chance of getting a 3-way circle of death situation that is resolved by tiebreakers like "points against". (Not that I'm bitter about that particular one or anything.)

As far as computational math goes - I think it is completely out of place in any quizbowl format. There is no little test of recall or knowledge, mostly just pure number crunching speed. And I should know, my team back in The Day (TM) had some of the best. (During my career, I could probably count the number of computational math questions we missed on my hands.) We got all those questions not because they were good quizbowl players (they were, though), but because they could calculate numbers very well.
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Post by steven-lamp »

I don't like math because I can't solve it fast enough, but also it doesn't test the recall/thinking portions of quiz bowl (By thinking I mean the piecing together of obscure clues to get early buzzes).

Yeah, Nick, Jim Gerrick is a tad bit better than Patrick's Press or QU or whatever the heck you guys played on.

I definitely think the tournament would've been more competitive with ASFA and CCA there, and their not being there definitely shows the weaknesses of the ASCA system, but honestly, not one person can say that ASFA and CCA's absence was good for them. It's just 2 less powerful teams to worry about. I do think it's unfair that they weren't there, and I'll complain a little about it, but it did nothing but help us and every other team there. ASFA was the only team in the state that we hadn't beaten prior to state, and although I do want to play them again (if not for the competition, than for the sportsmanship and overall coolness their team exhibits), their absence eased my mind a bit.
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Post by quizbowllee »

A funny anecdote from this weekend:

During our bye round, the moderator said he would read the questions from that round "off the record." I asked if I could play that round, and he said sure...

Afterwards, he came up to me in the hall and was like "Dude, I don't know why your coach doesn't put you in... you're awesome!"

I thought this was funny, because he HAD to know I was the coach. Granted, without my goatee I look like I'm twelve, but I had already protested an answer and signed two score sheets as the coach in his room...

So, I might have to shave the ole' goat and try to pass as a freshman at NAQT and PACE this summer. Just kidding.

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Post by Neel6989 »

I think I failed to express my stance on the issue of math in ASCA. I'm assuming that ASCA is trying to pick the best team to represent Alabama at Panasonic, and Panasonic emphasizes math and physics far more than ASCA does; therefore, if ASCA wants to choose the best team to represent Alabama, they should be using a proportionately similar number of math questions as Panasonic does.
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Post by JBSprings »

ithinkiamsteven wrote:I will make the assertion, however, that we are the best team in the state (emphasizing the word "team"). Evan is the best player by far, one of the best i've seen, and he did well enough, with a little bit of help, to pull out the victory. However, a great player isn't always enough. Look at Slade's Russellville of the past couple years. Slade was also an amazing player, but without any support he could never win that final match.
I'd like to object. True, Evan typically scores the most (and he was scoring higher than I'd ever seen before at State), but the rest of us aren't "non-players"--in fact, we've done respectably (not especially well) without Evan. The championship round was Evan's lowest-scoring round of the day--I outscored him on that round by one tossup, and Felix rung in one without which we'd have lost. Jenna, Lizzie and Felix definitely weigh in on the bonuses (esp. Jenna), & Lizzie takes any pop-culture. Evan's fast, and there's a lot of duplication of knowledge-bases, but we're not a one-man team--the assertion that Evan's "without support" is completely unfounded.

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Post by ithinkiamsteven »

i would also like to clarify my stance on math and the fairness of ASCA.
First, what I meant by my statements was basically that if you look at the top 4 teams at state from 1997 to 2005 there isn't a whole lot of variety:
Of a potential 36 teams, only 13 different teams have shown up in the final 4.
Of these 13 teams, only 4 have appeared just once in the final 4 (one of those being Brindlee Mtn, a new school, this year).
Two incidental things that I noted:
This is the first year in which Grissom was in the final four and not 1st place.
Indian Springs has the distinction of most final 4 appearances since 1997, with 6. Grissom is next with 5.
My whole point in this is that even if they get more small schools to come and make sure there are no crazy eliminations (a la CCA & ASFA) I don't think it would make that much of a difference on the outcome of state.
As for math - I am definitely not a big fan of "computational math." Maybe my wording was a little unclear in my last post. I don't like questions that rely solely on arithmetic and how fast you can add and multiply. However, I think there still need to be plenty of math questions, however, based more on knowledge of procedures, formulas, concepts, etc. Strict computation should be kept to a minimum, but mathematics is important.
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Post by ithinkiamsteven »

Alright, I guess I have one more thing to clarify:
First and foremost, I never said that Evan was "without support" or that the other ISS players were "non-players" - I said that Slade was almost entirely without support, which is accurate. Evan certainly got some support, as I noted that his team was able to win state since he got some "help" or support from his teammates. What i meant was that we were generally more balanced in who answered questions than teams that have one extremely nt player, such as Indian Springs. I think all four of our players usually answered at least one tossup, usually more, in most games, which for many teams is not the case.
I didn't mean to offend anyone, and Springs deserved the championship they won. Congrats and good luck at the Panasonic, it's fun.
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Post by Neel6989 »

On a side note, we want our postcards!
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