Scobol Solo 10/22

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Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

This is an invitation to participate in the Eleventh Annual New Trier Scobol Solo, to be held on Saturday, October 22, 2011. New Trier is located in Winnetka, just north of Chicago.

This tournament is being mirrored on October 29 at Carbondale and on November 12 at Springfield. If you are interested in registering for those tournaments, contact Sharon Lorinskas at Carbondale at [email protected] or David Adkins at Springfield at [email protected].

Unlike most other tournaments, this one will feature one-on-one matches (i.e. no teams). Each match will consist of twenty tossup questions without bonuses. Each individual who enters is guaranteed seven matches, which will take place from 9:00-3:00. We will then have a Championship Match at 3:30 featuring the top nine students all playing at once.

The cost to participate is $30 per player for the first fifteen players on your team. If you can supply an experienced moderator, then the cost is only $20 per player for the first fifteen players, and it is only $10 per player if you have two moderators. I am willing to negotiate if you have more than two moderators. Lunch will be provided for everybody. Keep in mind that moderators will be unable to watch their own players' matches. Even if you don't moderate, there will be several times that some of your students play at the same time. If you wish to enter more than fifteen players, they will be entered on a standby basis. If there is room for them to play, they will play for free. I will let you know by October 15 how much room we have--we are hoping to have exactly 128 students total.

Old questions are at: http://www.quizbowlpackets.com/. The tournament is set up so that matches always feature two students with identical records.

Please return the enclosed form with a check. It can be found at
http://www.newtrier.k12.il.us/media/fil ... form11.pdf
If you want to hold some spaces for your school while your business office is cutting the check, email me at [email protected] or call me at (847)784-6616. Reserve spaces by October 12.

Spots being held:
Auburn 8
Belvidere North 1
Buffalo Grove 2
Carbondale 3
Fenton 4
Fremd 3
Hoffman Estates 4
Homewood-Flossmoor 7
IMSA 8
Latin 5
Libertyville 3
Loyola 11
Maine East 5
Maine South 6
Marian CC 2
Metea Valley 7
New Trier 2
Niles North 2
OPRF 5
St. Charles East 2
St. Ignatius 4
Stevenson 12
Wheaton North 11
Wheaton Warrenville South 6
Whitney Young 5

Waitlist:
Culver 2
Homewood-Flossmoor 1

Moderators:
Burgener
Busse
Egan
Fedewa
Fischer
Foley
Funk
Gerhardt
Greene
Greenthal
Grierson
Hampton
Kelley
Kidd
Knuth
Laird
Laudermith
Lorinskas
Martin
Nagib
O'Laughlin
Paulsen
Perovanovic
Prince
Pritchett
Sacks
Shannon
Sidhu
Stankevitz
Strey
Taylor
Vasta
Wideman
Wong
Yang
Last edited by Stained Diviner on Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:39 pm, edited 46 times in total.
David Reinstein
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

This tournament is half full, so it's time for a bump. Also, we could use lots of moderators.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

30 spots left.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

5 spots left.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

Full. Additional entrants will be waitlisted.

I could use more moderators.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Harpie's Feather Duster »

I'm having transportation issues and may have to drop. More information in a few days hopefully.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by David Riley »

Assuming I've mended by then, I'm available to staff,
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

I could still use a few more moderators. You get good pizza and get paid, and it is an easy tournament to moderate for if you can tolerate me.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

If I don't hear from Lisle and/or Niles North within the next 24 hours, they will be replaced.

EDIT: Lisle has until noon today.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

I currently have an opening or two, and I am giving it/them away.

EDIT: Never mind, full again.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by jonah »

This post has some information about the matchups on Saturday. Everything is subject to change, but as of right now…

Here are the initial pairings:
ROUND ONE:
Shreyas Vissapragada (Metea Valley) vs. Rohan Shivde (Fenton)
Matthew Lemay (Libertyville) vs. Thomas Birt (Wheaton North)
Graham Gier (St. Charles East) vs. Tirth Patel (Metea Valley)
Trevor Rahlfs (Loyola Academy) vs. Ben Chametzky (Carbondale)
Greg Martin (Oak Park-River Forest) vs. Lucas Dawson (Marian Central Catholic)
Elaine Lord (Hoffman Estates) vs. Ben Tannenbaum (Latin School)
Alex Pandya (Auburn) vs. Ryan Malis (Stevenson)
Kevin Gislason (Homewood-Flossmoor) vs. Ben Lewis (Fremd)
Eric Ordonez (IMSA) vs. Sarah Ackenhusen (Wheaton North)
Prerak Trivedi (Carbondale) vs. Kevin Salat (Wheaton North)
Adam Ramos (Homewood-Flossmoor) vs. Elam Coalson (Oak Park-River Forest)
Adam Smith (Maine South) vs. Greg Grabarek (Wheaton Warrenville South)
Adam Kalinich (IMSA) vs. Laura Zimmermann (Metea Valley)
Blake Tutt (Fenton) vs. Jack Claiborne (Wheaton Warrenville South)
Matt McBride (Loyola Academy) vs. Tom Pietryla (Whitney Young)
Dylan Minarik (Belvidere North) vs. Alexa Maffei (IMSA)
Elaine Zhou (Latin School) vs. Conrad Gainski (Fenton)
Will Miller (Wheaton North) vs. Rishi Srivam (Metea Valley)
Nikhil Kamath (Libertyville) vs. Chandru Rasendran (Stevenson)
Vicky DelReal (St. Ignatius) vs. Niranjan Jayanth (Stevenson)
Greg Ramel (Oak Park-River Forest) vs. Alex McKee (Wheaton North)
Jared Deveau (St. Ignatius) vs. William Kostecka (Wheaton North)
Casey Bryniarski (Maine South) vs. Paul Oshana (Maine East)
Tyler Miksanek (Wheaton Warrenville South) vs. Baasit Jamal (Metea Valley)
Austin Bryniarski (Maine South) vs. Alex Park (St. Charles East)
Dhruv Patel (Stevenson) vs. Andrew Wang (New Trier)
Ellyn Collier (Wheaton North) vs. Webster Guan (IMSA)
Josh Heiger (Stevenson) vs. Lloyd Sy (Auburn)
Jason Liang (Fremd) vs. Bill Shaffer (Wheaton North)
Wenhao Yu (Whitney Young) vs. Mike Kikta (Auburn)
Wilson Ngai (Maine South) vs. Victor Liu (Whitney Young)
Amanda Nguyen (New Trier) vs. Matt Yang (Stevenson)

ROUND TWO:
Siva Gangavarapu (IMSA) vs. Jacob Balogh (Auburn)
Nolan Winkler (Loyola Academy) vs. Tony Wu (Metea Valley)
Zach Hayes (Loyola Academy) vs. Sara Ryan (Homewood-Flossmoor)
Stephen Skapek (Oak Park-River Forest) vs. Dan Davies (Latin School)
Christopher Tso (Whitney Young) vs. Karen Suarez (Wheaton North)
Thomas Lis (Maine South) vs. Alexander Solis (St. Ignatius)
Abid Haseeb (Auburn) vs. Robbie Neja (Loyola Academy)
Brandon Leung (Maine East) vs. Avni Bavishi (Hoffman Estates)
Eugene Bulkin (Stevenson) vs. Sam Reinhart (Wheaton Warrenville South)
Alex Kling (Latin School) vs. Jason Asher (Stevenson)
Benjamin Sigal (Stevenson) vs. Nilo Cobau (Metea Valley)
Michael Fitzpatrick (Marian Central Catholic) vs. Michael Hu (Stevenson)
Kevin Medrano (Maine East) vs. Andy Pecora (Libertyville)
Jenny Woo (Hoffman Estates) vs. Peter Ericksen (Wheaton Warrenville South)
Jeffrey Gaynes (Niles North) vs. Esther Johnson (Wheaton North)
Bob Noe (Homewood-Flossmoor) vs. Matt Wilber (Buffalo Grove)
Ben Marks (Niles North) vs. Mark Anderson (Loyola Academy)
Bernard Xie (Buffalo Grove) vs. Elliott Runberg (Homewood-Flossmoor)
Subham Saha (Maine East) vs. Paddy Rahlfs (Loyola Academy)
Jeeho Lee (Stevenson) vs. Anton Karpovich (IMSA)
Morgan Venkus (Loyola Academy) vs. Bryan Lee (Auburn)
Connell Stanton (Loyola Academy) vs. Nolan Maloney (IMSA)
Tom Kloehn (Latin School) vs. Alex Smith (Loyola Academy)
Addison Euhus (Wheaton North) vs. Greg Krzywicki (Fenton)
Nathalie Irmer (Whitney Young) vs. David Jin (Stevenson)
Benson Wang (Hoffman Estates) vs. Anand Poozhikunnel (Wheaton Warrenville South)
Saieesh Rao (IMSA) vs. Harry McDonough (Oak Park-River Forest)
Kevin Staller (Auburn) vs. Nick Cummins (Loyola Academy)
John Lotus (St. Ignatius) vs. Connor Buckley (Maine South)
Will Brady (Maine East) vs. Adam Wiggenhauser (Homewood-Flossmoor)
Rebecca Wight (Fremd) vs. Robert Gramilliano (Homewood-Flossmoor)
Srinivas Panchamukhi (Carbondale) vs. Usman Haseeb (Auburn)

Here are the initial card assignments:
These do not correspond to seeds!
1: Dhruv Patel (Stevenson)
2: Prerak Trivedi (Carbondale)
3: Vicky DelReal (St. Ignatius)
4: Matthew Lemay (Libertyville)
5: Tyler Miksanek (Wheaton Warrenville South)
6: Dylan Minarik (Belvidere North)
7: Nikhil Kamath (Libertyville)
8: Wenhao Yu (Whitney Young)
9: Trevor Rahlfs (Loyola Academy)
10: Graham Gier (St. Charles East)
11: Kevin Gislason (Homewood-Flossmoor)
12: Eric Ordonez (IMSA)
13: Austin Bryniarski (Maine South)
14: Elaine Zhou (Latin School)
15: Shreyas Vissapragada (Metea Valley)
16: Elaine Lord (Hoffman Estates)
17: Adam Kalinich (IMSA)
18: Jason Liang (Fremd)
19: Josh Heiger (Stevenson)
20: Blake Tutt (Fenton)
21: Adam Ramos (Homewood-Flossmoor)
22: Will Miller (Wheaton North)
23: Greg Martin (Oak Park-River Forest)
24: Adam Smith (Maine South)
25: Greg Ramel (Oak Park-River Forest)
26: Ellyn Collier (Wheaton North)
27: Amanda Nguyen (New Trier)
28: Wilson Ngai (Maine South)
29: Alex Pandya (Auburn)
30: Casey Bryniarski (Maine South)
31: Matt McBride (Loyola Academy)
32: Jared Deveau (St. Ignatius)
33: Eugene Bulkin (Stevenson)
34: John Lotus (St. Ignatius)
35: Connell Stanton (Loyola Academy)
36: Nolan Winkler (Loyola Academy)
37: Jeffrey Gaynes (Niles North)
38: Subham Saha (Maine East)
39: Thomas Lis (Maine South)
40: Zach Hayes (Loyola Academy)
41: Jeeho Lee (Stevenson)
42: Morgan Venkus (Loyola Academy)
43: Stephen Skapek (Oak Park-River Forest)
44: Tom Kloehn (Latin School)
45: Brandon Leung (Maine East)
46: Ben Marks (Niles North)
47: Siva Gangavarapu (IMSA)
48: Kevin Medrano (Maine East)
49: Rebecca Wight (Fremd)
50: Alex Kling (Latin School)
51: Christopher Tso (Whitney Young)
52: Bob Noe (Homewood-Flossmoor)
53: Michael Fitzpatrick (Marian Central Catholic)
54: Srinivas Panchamukhi (Carbondale)
55: Benson Wang (Hoffman Estates)
56: Addison Euhus (Wheaton North)
57: Benjamin Sigal (Stevenson)
58: Will Brady (Maine East)
59: Jenny Woo (Hoffman Estates)
60: Abid Haseeb (Auburn)
61: Saieesh Rao (IMSA)
62: Bernard Xie (Buffalo Grove)
63: Nathalie Irmer (Whitney Young)
64: Kevin Staller (Auburn)
65: Nick Cummins (Loyola Academy)
66: David Jin (Stevenson)
67: Elliott Runberg (Homewood-Flossmoor)
68: Harry McDonough (Oak Park-River Forest)
69: Robbie Neja (Loyola Academy)
70: Peter Ericksen (Wheaton Warrenville South)
71: Adam Wiggenhauser (Homewood-Flossmoor)
72: Nilo Cobau (Metea Valley)
73: Greg Krzywicki (Fenton)
74: Anand Poozhikunnel (Wheaton Warrenville South)
75: Usman Haseeb (Auburn)
76: Michael Hu (Stevenson)
77: Matt Wilber (Buffalo Grove)
78: Karen Suarez (Wheaton North)
79: Jason Asher (Stevenson)
80: Robert Gramilliano (Homewood-Flossmoor)
81: Andy Pecora (Libertyville)
82: Jacob Balogh (Auburn)
83: Mark Anderson (Loyola Academy)
84: Avni Bavishi (Hoffman Estates)
85: Alex Smith (Loyola Academy)
86: Dan Davies (Latin School)
87: Bryan Lee (Auburn)
88: Anton Karpovich (IMSA)
89: Sara Ryan (Homewood-Flossmoor)
90: Alexander Solis (St. Ignatius)
91: Paddy Rahlfs (Loyola Academy)
92: Esther Johnson (Wheaton North)
93: Tony Wu (Metea Valley)
94: Nolan Maloney (IMSA)
95: Connor Buckley (Maine South)
96: Sam Reinhart (Wheaton Warrenville South)
97: William Kostecka (Wheaton North)
98: Tom Pietryla (Whitney Young)
99: Paul Oshana (Maine East)
100: Ryan Malis (Stevenson)
101: Victor Liu (Whitney Young)
102: Matt Yang (Stevenson)
103: Webster Guan (IMSA)
104: Alex McKee (Wheaton North)
105: Greg Grabarek (Wheaton Warrenville South)
106: Lucas Dawson (Marian Central Catholic)
107: Rishi Srivam (Metea Valley)
108: Elam Coalson (Oak Park-River Forest)
109: Jack Claiborne (Wheaton Warrenville South)
110: Lloyd Sy (Auburn)
111: Bill Shaffer (Wheaton North)
112: Laura Zimmermann (Metea Valley)
113: Ben Tannenbaum (Latin School)
114: Rohan Shivde (Fenton)
115: Conrad Gainski (Fenton)
116: Alex Park (St. Charles East)
117: Sarah Ackenhusen (Wheaton North)
118: Ben Lewis (Fremd)
119: Tirth Patel (Metea Valley)
120: Ben Chametzky (Carbondale)
121: Mike Kikta (Auburn)
122: Chandru Rasendran (Stevenson)
123: Alexa Maffei (IMSA)
124: Baasit Jamal (Metea Valley)
125: Thomas Birt (Wheaton North)
126: Niranjan Jayanth (Stevenson)
127: Kevin Salat (Wheaton North)
128: Andrew Wang (New Trier)

And the master schedule is attached to this post.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Charles Martel »

Prelims Prediction:
7-0:
1. Ben Chametzky
6-1:
2. Lloyd Sy
3. Alex Kling
4. Nolan Winkler
5. Eric Ordonez
6. Dylan Minarik
7. Webster Guan
8. Andrew Wang
5-2 with the toughest SOS:
13. Adam Kalinich
14. David Jin
5-2 with tough SOS in no particular order:
9. Nilo Cobau
10. Morgan Venkus
11. Srinivas
12. Abid Haseeb
15. Nolan Maloney
16. Blake Tutt
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by jonah »

By the way, unless the online scoring system has problems, the Desperation Shot has been retired. The players in the Championship Match will be determined as follows:

0a. The one player who went 7-0 is in the championship match.

0b. The seven players who went 6-1 are in the championship match.

0c. One additional player is chosen from among the 5-2 players for the championship match according to the procedure outlined in #1 et seq.

1. If among the 5-2 players there is a unique player with the highest number of points scored -- excluding tiebreaker questions -- (s)he is selected.

2. If #1 does not select a player, and if among the group tied for the highest number of points scored there is a unique player with the latest round number of his/her second loss, (s)he is selected.

3. If #2 does not select a player, and if among the group tied for the highest number of points scored and latest time of second loss there is a unique player with the latest round number of his/her first loss, (s)he is selected.

4. If #3 does not select a player, and if among the group tied for all criteria so far considered there is a unique player whose opponents collectively scored the most points, (s)he is selected.

5. If #4 does not select a player, and if among the group tied for all criteria so far considered there is a unique player who at some point faced the 7-0 player, (s)he is selected.

6. If #5 does not select a player, and if among the group tied for all criteria so far considered there is a unique player who faced the most 6-1 players, (s)he is selected.

7. If #6 does not select a player, all players tied for all criteria so far considered will enter the championship match.

Everything about the actual execution of the Championship Match—notably that the player who was 7–0 in the regular rounds sits out the first 20 questions, entering with a score equal to the highest score of any player who played questions 1–20; that after 40 questions, only the 4 players with the highest scores will remain; and that after 50 questions, only the 2 players with the highest scores will remain—remains the same as in previous years.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Jane Fairfax »

1. Usman Haseeb
2. Abid Haseeb
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Edward Elric »

1. Dylan Minarik
2. Adam Kalinich
3. Blake Tutt

Edit: Oh wait this isn't novice rankings.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

Andrew Van Duyn is being added to the field. I don't know at this time whether or not this will destroy all the pairings Jonah posted above.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by jonah »

Leucippe and Clitophon wrote:Andrew Van Duyn is being added to the field. I don't know at this time whether or not this will destroy all the pairings Jonah posted above.
It does. I probably won't have a chance to post the new pairings at a useful time.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Boeing X-20, Please! »

Jane Fairfax wrote:1. Usman Haseeb
2. Ryan Malis
3. Jared Deveau
Fixed.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by jonah »

Live results will be available at http://www.qbwiki.com/solo2011/ssss/rep ... reboard.pl and the pages linked from it. In particular, initial pairings are at http://www.qbwiki.com/solo2011/ssss/reports_next.pl.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Charles Martel »

My prediction remains the same, except replace Dylan Minarik with Andrew Van Duyn, Abid with Dylan, me with Abid, Blake with me.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by abnormal abdomen »

whitesoxfan wrote:My prediction remains the same, except replace Dylan Minarik with Andrew Van Duyn, Abid with Dylan, me with Abid, Blake with me.
I'm very curious as to how you're coming up with such precise predictions. Are you using the schedule to do this, or are you just making educated guesses? The former seems like it'd be extremely time-consuming.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Charles Martel »

I'm using the schedule to do this, but it didn't take that much time (maybe half an hour). For example, my prediction assumed you to go W,W,W, L to Nolan Winkler, W, W against me, L to Alex Kling. There is a lot of uncertainty, though, and probably only a 20-25% chance of exactly that happening.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by abnormal abdomen »

whitesoxfan wrote:I'm using the schedule to do this, but it didn't take that much time (maybe half an hour). For example, my prediction assumed you to go W,W,W, L to Nolan Winkler, W, W against me, L to Alex Kling. There is a lot of uncertainty, though, and probably only a 20-25% chance of exactly that happening.
Wow, interesting. You're obviously much more efficient at figuring these things out than I am. Then again, I'm sure you have some sort of legitimate system, whereas I just crudely shift my eyes over the page and scroll a lot.

Oh and yeah Usman is just going to tear this field to shreds.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

A reminder that up-to-the-second Scobol Solo results can be found at this page.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

The Scobol Solo bracket is designed for 128 players; after last minute drops, we have 125. The Phantom system is designed to keep the tournament running without granting byes.

A player who is scheduled to play against a Phantom essentially has an automatic win in that round; to play the packet, they will play against another player (called Phantom) who is not scheduled to play that round themselves. The Phantom plays regularly, and any tossup (s)he gets is marked as dead. The other player plays regularly, any tossup (s)he gets is recorded for their stats, and they will win the game with a score of (whatever)-to-nothing.

I'll let Reinstein fix anything I screwed up in this explanation later.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Lloyd Sy beat previously unbeaten Alex Kling, who has the second most tossups in the tournament through 5 rounds,15-4 to move to 6-0. That score dropped his average score below 16 TU/game. :shock:
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by mlaird »

Since the live updates are broken now or something, Dylan Minarik secures a bid to the finals with a 12-7 win over Andrew van Duyn in my room.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Irreligion in Bangladesh »

Ben Chametzky advances to the finals, 9-7, over Matt Wilber of Buffalo Grove.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by David Riley »

Will the final match have live results as well? Good luck to everyone!
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by mlaird »

I can post updates here if nobody else does.
I cannot figure out how to make cover it live work, so I'll be tweeting updates here:
http://twitter.com/#!/MattLaird1
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by mlaird »

1st place: Lloyd Sy
2nd place: Dylan Minarik
3rd place: Nolan Winkler
4th place: Andrew Wang
5th place: Ben Chametzky
6th place: Srinivas P
T7th: Webster Guan, Alex Kling
9th: Andrew Van Duyn
Last edited by mlaird on Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by David Riley »

er....who's 1 and 2?
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

Thanks for coming out, everybody, and congratulations to Lloyd and a lot of other people. Remember that these questions will be mirrored later, do do not discuss them here. If you have any comments on them, please email me and/or Jonah. The questions will be made public when it is appropriate to do so, which is in about a month.

Since the questions at this tournament don't usually lead to a lively discussion even when they aren't mirrored, I don't know if there is a need for a private forum. If anyone disagrees, Jonah and/or I can moderate it.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

Also, there probably are some errors in the stats. Don't be shy about emailing me and/or Jonah about them. If looking at questions will help you figure things out, that can also be arranged.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by jonah »

The scoresheet from the Championship Match is available at http://www.ihssbca.org/statistics/2011_ ... inals.html. There are still a few matches missing from the stats, but it's probably as complete as it will get. (If you have data from a missing match, though, please do email it to me.)
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

This set has been mirrored at Springfield and sent to the archive. The set that will appear in the archive is the version used at Springfield. The changes are:
"succession" was changed to "secession" in the Sam Houston question.
The order of Round 7 was changed so Algeria and Meursault are not back-to-back.
The lead-in to the Mean Value Theorem was improved.
The economic cycles question was improved.
The giveaway to South Africa (lit) was improved.
The Australia (lit) question was changed to a Don Quixote question.

All comments are welcome and can be made in public.
David Reinstein
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by MLaudermith »

I wrote most of the science and, I think, all the biology. I don't have the precise conversion stats in front of me, but I recall that at New Trier the physics, chemistry, and other science all had about 67% conversion while the biology was around 40%. I'm still trying to figure that one out and I'd like some feedback on the biology questions.
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Re: Scobol Solo 10/22

Post by Stained Diviner »

The questions are now posted. Sorry for the delay--I assumed that the person in charge of HSQB Packets was going to make some type of minimal effort to post them, and I should not have made that faulty assumption.
David Reinstein
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