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2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:32 pm
by Important Bird Area
These stats are ready.

Overall: 82.3% of tossups answered correctly, 20.6% powered.

(2010: 78.5% of tossups answered correctly, 15.7% powered.

2009: 73.3% correct, 14.9% powered.)

That's a very substantial improvement in conversion.


Least-converted tossups (min. 60 rooms played):

Alvar Aalto
--10% conversion--
C. Wright Mills
--20% conversion--
Carrie Anne Moss
Caprivi Strip
Peter Minuit
--25% conversion--
Charles Evans Hughes
Lewis Cass
Phedre
--30% conversion--
cycloid
Cavalleria Rusticana
Tlaloc
--35% conversion--
Confessions of an English Opium Eater
Mehmed II
The Power and the Glory
planetary nebula
--40% conversion--

Last year's thread for comparison. Overall, we seem to have done a better job of weeding out difficulty outliers, but obviously there's still some work to do here.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:38 pm
by Important Bird Area
Power stats (again, minimum 60 rooms heard)

Not powered by anyone:

Alvar Aalto
C. Wright Mills
planetary nebula
Raman scattering
Alexander Stephens
Claude-Levi Strauss
Fountain of the Four Rivers
reinforcement
pyrimidines
Sea of Marmara
William Wordsworth
The Ransom of Red Chief
Cincinnatus
Vientiane
index of refraction
Fur Elise
dopamine
fullerenes
fandango
Puck
molybdenum
Malta
Malaysia
Allan Pinkerton
heart attack
Royal Air Force
Idaho
Beauty and the Beast
avocado
Upton Sinclair
Pancho Villa
Vitus Bering
Arizona

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:40 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
The Caprivi Strip, as happy as I was that that was tossed-up, may be a little too difficult. But besides that, Aalto, and Carrie Anne Moss, everything else seems reasonable for this tournament (note: I don't claim to be an authority, obviously). And for a tournament this size, that's impressive.

It's interesting that no one powered Wordsworth. Also interesting: someone powered Carrie Anne Moss.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:48 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Wurzel-Flummery wrote:The Caprivi Strip, as happy as I was that that was tossed-up, may be a little too difficult. But besides that, Aalto, and Carrie Anne Moss, everything else seems reasonable for this tournament (note: I don't claim to be an authority, obviously). And for a tournament this size, that's impressive.
To give some question history, Caprivi was originally a DI SCT question (I believe) that got re-coded for a high school range just because--as far as I could tell--the G: editor thought Caprivi Strip questions had been coming up entirely too much in college (I know little geography, but even I do know that that's a stock clue for Namibia and stuff); the question of whether it actually was meaningful on the HS level was, to me, pretty open. I can guarantee you I'll never not turn it into a tossup on Namibia again.)

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:16 pm
by Kentari
If I remember correctly, the Fur Elise tossup was written abysmally. I think everything up until "E to D sharp" was completely unbuzzable. I do remember that it listed the keys it went through, which is completely useless to someone who knows a piece of music, since you don't need to know that to play it, and the only reason you would know it is if you were analyzing it, which no one in high school does. My teammate and I and can both play Fur Elise from memory, but we were beaten out on the "E to D sharp" clue. Fur Elise is too short to write a whole toss-up on. Additionally, questions which describe musical compositions are usually vague or impossible.

Graham Greene seems rather difficult to ask about, but I don't pretend to know for sure.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:16 pm
by Excelsior (smack)
Could you post the "planetary nebula" and "avocado" tossups, please?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:22 pm
by TheKingInYellow
I'm pretty sure I powered Sea of Marmara

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:37 pm
by Auks Ran Ova
That Wordsworth tossup looked like someone had put a poorly-written ICT tossup in a blender, so I'm not particularly surprised it wasn't powered.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:44 pm
by Andrew's a Freshman
Ukonvasara wrote:That Wordsworth tossup looked like someone had put a poorly-written ICT tossup in a blender, so I'm not particularly surprised it wasn't powered.
Could I see this and the Ransom of Red Chief tossups? I played the Wordsworth and remember a blur until "Lake Poet" but might have missed something. I didn't get to hear the Ransom tossup, but I've read it.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:07 pm
by Important Bird Area
HSNCT round 8 wrote:The opening theme of this piece is repeated after a fast section in F major, and another theme in D minor follows. A lighter section in F major is followed by bars in C major, then the first section repeats. This piece in rondo form begins in (*) 3/8 time as the right hand alternates between E and D sharp. For 10 points--name this so-called bagatelle in A minor that Beethoven may have written for a female pupil.
HSNCT round 16 wrote:He criticized a convention between Portugal and Great Britain in one of his prose works, ~The Convention of Cintra~. Seven years before his death in 1850, he succeeded Robert Southey as Poet Laureate. His poems include the "tale in verse" called ~Peter Bell~ and the long ~The (*) Prelude~, as well as "Resolution and Independence." For 10 points--name this Romantic poet who also wrote about revisiting Tintern Abbey.
HSNCT round 7 wrote:This food's many varieties can be grouped into three types: West Indian, Mexican, and Guatemalan, and its leaves contain the acid persin, toxic to many animals. The most popular U.S. cultivars are the (*) Hass type with rugged brown-black skin, and the Fuerte with a more typical pear shape and green skin. For 10 points--name this fruit also known as an alligator pear, used in California rolls and guacamole.
HSNCT round 5 wrote:One character in this work whipped Ed Walker twice on Saturday. Later, that character feeds another individual, whose favorite Biblical character is King Herod, sand rather than oats. Two characters in this short story are given the nicknames (*) "Snake-eye" and "Old Hank the Trapper." For 10 points--name this short story in which Sam Howard and Bill Driscoll come to regret kidnapping the title child, a work by O. Henry.
HSNCT round 5 wrote:One solar mass stars spend approximately 10,000 years as these entities. They are formed from asymptotic giant branch stars that pulsate and lose large fractions of their mass in a stellar wind; when the underlying hot core is exposed, the lost mass begins to glow. A (*) white dwarf lies at the center of--for 10 points--what type of nebula whose name, bestowed by William Herschel, reflects its similarity to gas giants?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:16 pm
by Important Bird Area
Powered in 25 or more rooms:

Kazuo Ishiguro
A Good Man is Hard to Find
differential equations
relatively prime
Mauryan Empire (this one was read in 70 rooms and generated the remarkable stat line of 26/26/26)
John Winthrop
Heimdall
Gerard Butler
Frank Gehry
Cat's Cradle
Council of Trent
Michael Faraday
Tom Joad
Wicked
Chinua Achebe
Sudan
Vincent van Gogh
Black and Yellow
My Fair Lady
Community
New Jersey
Justin Bieber
Lend-Lease Act
Mormonism
Ace Ventura
New Years Day
dragons
self-immolation
Ashton Kutcher
floods
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Ra

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:42 pm
by Steeve Ho You Fat
I'd be interested in seeing the most negged, if you have those.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:45 pm
by Steeve Ho You Fat
Also I'm not surprised to see the Faraday one in the top powers; I thought the lead-in of force lines and ice pail was really easy for this tournament compared to most other ones.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:58 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
Scooter Braun was a really easy lead-in for Bieber, anyone who had seen "Never Say Never" or knows anything about the Bieber creation myth would have annihilated that tossup.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:04 am
by Masked Canadian History Bandit
I remember seeing in the liveblog that there was a Canadian politics tossup played in a round late in the afternoon that someone wondered if Lisgar powered. Post the question and conversion stats please?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:12 am
by The Dance of Sorrow
Could I see the Dragons, Fountain of the Four Rivers, and Beauty and the Beast tossups please?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:15 am
by Important Bird Area
HSNCT round 15 wrote:A Vietnamese myth claims humanity came from one of these creatures mating with a fairy. The Japanese sea god Ryojin usually took this form, and Japan's imperial sword was found in the tail of one of these creatures. In Chinese myth four of them rule the directional seas, and in Norse myth (*) Nidhogg is one of these monsters. For 10 points--name these mythical reptiles, that, in modern portrayals, often breathe fire.
HSNCT round 11 wrote:One figure in this sculpture has a jeweled legband; another, with a robe-covered face, sits next to a palm tree and lions. It is built around an ancient sculpture moved from the Circus of Maxentius and is capped by a symbol of the Pamphili family, the dove. An (*) Egyptian obelisk is surrounded by personifications of the Ganges, Danube, Nile, and Rio de la Plata in--for 10 points--what fountain by Gian Lorenzo Bernini?
HSNCT round 11 wrote:Andre Gretry used it as the basis of his comic opera ~Zemire and Azor~. Prince Ardent is the second title character of Jean Cocteau's version, in which he punishes a (*) merchant for stealing a rose, and is served by dozens of disembodied hands. For 10 points--name this French fairy tale about Belle's unselfish love, whose Disney adaptation features the songs "Gaston" and "Be Our Guest."

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:18 am
by Important Bird Area
Masked Canadian History Bandit wrote:I remember seeing in the liveblog that there was a Canadian politics tossup played in a round late in the afternoon that someone wondered if Lisgar powered. Post the question and conversion stats please?
HSNCT round 13 wrote:One leader of this party defeated Charles Tupper because of the Orange Order and was opposed by Catholic bishops; that man was Wilfrid Laurier. Another leader of this party, who feuded with Lord Byng and joined World War II, was William Lyon Mackenzie King. A power struggle in this party pitted Paul (*) Martin against Jean Chretien. For 10 points--name this party waxed in a 2011 election by Stephen Harper's Conservatives.
5/30/6 in 70 rooms, so at least some American players were able to power this.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:24 am
by Important Bird Area
25 or more minus-fives:

Alvar Aalto
Peter Minuit
Charles Evans Hughes
Tlaloc
planetary nebula
Susquehanna River
CNBC
San Diego Bay
Cadmus
slate
Cardinal Mazarin
Mies van der Rohe
vitamin B1
reinforcement
corundum
critical point
Banquo
apportionment
pyrimidines
Mauryan Empire
Andre Ampere
Battle of the Coral Sea
astatine
New Hampshire
Java
molybdenum
Wicked
Malaysia
Vandals
Thomas Malthus
Syria
symmetric property
arteries

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:08 am
by sir negsalot
Might I see the tossup and stats for the Michael Scott question?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:06 am
by Kyle
The Puck tossup came up in the BSQC final and it was powered on about four words. Perhaps American high schoolers just aren't British enough.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:19 am
by Sniper, No Sniping!
Kyle wrote:The Puck tossup came up in the BSQC final and it was powered on about four words. Perhaps American high schoolers just aren't British enough.
I wonder how many times Relegation didn't get powered at your mirror.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:32 am
by Kyle
CavsFan2k10 wrote:
Kyle wrote:The Puck tossup came up in the BSQC final and it was powered on about four words. Perhaps American high schoolers just aren't British enough.
I wonder how many times Relegation didn't get powered at your mirror.
You mean you wonder how often the "football" tossups on Schalke and Ghana's 2010 World Cup campaign and the common-link tossup on teams named Rangers (clues from New York, Texas, Queen's Park, and Glasgow) got powered at my tournament?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:59 pm
by sacagawea
Could you post the Malthus tossup? For some reason I felt misled by one of the clues. While playing at HSNCT, I remember luckily getting outbuzzed by an opponent who negged with the answer I was thinking.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:03 pm
by No Electricity Required
I'd like to see the Peter Minuit and Vandals TUs, please.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:04 pm
by Blau Space
In addition, could you post the tossup on A Good Man is Hard to Find? Love the story, but I'm pretty sure we had a bye that round.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:11 pm
by i never see pigeons in wheeling
bt_green_warbler wrote:
HSNCT round 15 wrote:A Vietnamese myth claims humanity came from one of these creatures mating with a fairy. The Japanese sea god Ryojin usually took this form, and Japan's imperial sword was found in the tail of one of these creatures. In Chinese myth four of them rule the directional seas, and in Norse myth (*) Nidhogg is one of these monsters. For 10 points--name these mythical reptiles, that, in modern portrayals, often breathe fire.
"Serpent" should have been acceptable for "dragon" before the "breathes fire" clue.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:37 pm
by Urech hydantoin synthesis
sacagawea wrote:Could you post the Malthus tossup? For some reason I felt misled by one of the clues. While playing at HSNCT, I remember luckily getting outbuzzed by an opponent who negged with the answer I was thinking.
Was it the "Principles of political economy" clue?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:43 pm
by Important Bird Area
HSNCT round 2 wrote:In one episode, this man offers batteries to high school students after revealing that he cannot pay for their college educations. More recently, he fell in love with (*) Holly Flax and decided to follow her to Colorado, leading to his replacement by Deangelo Vickers, played by Will Ferrell. For 10 points--name this Dunder Mifflin employee played by Steve Carell on ~The Office~.
24/18/14 in 45 rooms.
HSNCT round 9 wrote:One of this thinker's works criticizes William Godwin; another gives rent as an example of surplus. This author of ~The Nature of Rent~ attacked Say's Law in ~Principles of Political Economy~. This proponent of the Corn Laws argued that food supply grows (*) arithmetically while population grows geometrically, inevitably causing famine and war. For 10 points--name this British economist who wrote an essay "On Population."
HSNCT round 15 wrote:In 1638, this man established Fort Christina at the present-day site of Wilmington, Delaware, as part of his leadership of the colony of New Sweden. Earlier, while in the service of another European power, he established the town of New (*) Amsterdam. For 10 points--name this director-general of New Netherland who, in exchange for trade goods valued at 60 guilders, purchased Manhattan Island.
HSNCT round 15 wrote:In this work, one character sneaks her cat Pitty Sing into a car before they eat at a diner owned by Red Sam. Bobby Lee is assigned the task of watching the children, June Star and John Wesley. Those children's (*) grandmother is shot after she says "you're one of my own children!" to an escapee from prison. For 10 points--name this short story by Flannery O'Connor that depicts the murder of a family by the Misfit's gang.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:48 pm
by Mechanical Beasts
Christino wrote:
sacagawea wrote:Could you post the Malthus tossup? For some reason I felt misled by one of the clues. While playing at HSNCT, I remember luckily getting outbuzzed by an opponent who negged with the answer I was thinking.
Was it the "Principles of political economy" clue?
Oh, I see: Malthus and Ricardo (and Mill) have books with that title. But the description of Malthus's PPE is unique, since Ricardo defended Say's law (in general, and specifically in his own work with that title).

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:09 pm
by jgalea84
Very surprised at the low conversion numbers for the Peter Minuit tossup.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:16 pm
by Important Bird Area
Conversion stats by category:

(%correct, %power)

current events (90.7, 21.1)
fine arts (73.0, 21.8)
general knowledge (86.3, 5.8)
geography (82.3, 12.6)
history (82.4, 17.9)
language (100.0, 0.0)
literature (80.5, 29.5)
miscellaneous (93.3, 13.8)
philosophy (75.4, 17.1)
pop culture (84.7, 41.1)
science (83.4, 14.8)
social science (73.2, 12.4)
sports (76.8, 31.2)
theology (94.6, 27.0)

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:20 pm
by Important Bird Area
Some subcategories of note:

mythology (78.8, 46.0)
fine arts (visual) (70.2, 25.5)
fine arts (music) (79.3, 20.5)
fine arts (performance) (64.4, 17.7)
biology (85.4, 16.0)
chemistry (85.9, 12.2)
physics (85.2, 14.6)
math (78.5, 19.8)
astronomy (72.5, 12.0)

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:32 pm
by Down and out in Quintana Roo
jgalea84 wrote:Very surprised at the low conversion numbers for the Peter Minuit tossup.
Why? It may be a weirdly iconic American story, but it's not really an important name to remember in the annals of American History. It is of no use to mention his name, for example, in an AP U.S. History class, as i did not do so in teaching the class this year, nor do i ever plan on it.

Come to think of it, no, i wouldn't have been able to remember his name either, if i were asked to do so.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:40 pm
by jgalea84
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
jgalea84 wrote:Very surprised at the low conversion numbers for the Peter Minuit tossup.
Why? It may be a weirdly iconic American story, but it's not really an important name to remember in the annals of American History. It is of no use to mention his name, for example, in an AP U.S. History class, as i did not do so in teaching the class this year, nor do i ever plan on it.

Come to think of it, no, i wouldn't have been able to remember his name either, if i were asked to do so.
I agree that he's a minor name in American history, but it's the sort of story that it seems like any history player worth his or her salt would remember.

Or maybe I played Sid Meier's Colonization too much as a child.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:42 pm
by nadph
Can you post the index of refraction tossup? I'm curious why it wasn't powered.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:50 pm
by etchdulac
jgalea84 wrote:Or maybe I played Sid Meier's Colonization too much as a child.
My exact thought. I feel old. Wait, I am old in this context.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:15 pm
by Important Bird Area
nadph wrote:Can you post the index of refraction tossup? I'm curious why it wasn't powered.
HSNCT round 8 wrote:This dimensionless parameter varies as the square root of the medium's dielectric constant, assuming that the extinction coefficient is zero. It can vary with wavelength, resulting in the phenomenon of (*) dispersion. The angle at which light rays bend when passing between two media is calculated in Snell's law using--for 10 points--what quantity which is 1.33 for pure water?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:05 pm
by No Electricity Required
T287 wrote:I'd like to see the Peter Minuit and Vandals TUs, please.
I think you may have overlooked my interest in the Vandals TU, and I'd still like to see it, please.
jgalea84 wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
jgalea84 wrote:Very surprised at the low conversion numbers for the Peter Minuit tossup.
Why? It may be a weirdly iconic American story, but it's not really an important name to remember in the annals of American History. It is of no use to mention his name, for example, in an AP U.S. History class, as i did not do so in teaching the class this year, nor do i ever plan on it.

Come to think of it, no, i wouldn't have been able to remember his name either, if i were asked to do so.
I agree that he's a minor name in American history, but it's the sort of story that it seems like any history player worth his or her salt would remember.

Or maybe I played Sid Meier's Colonization too much as a child.
I was surprised by the low conversion of the tossup myself, but I think I can owe my Minuit knowledge to Age of Empires III. The only time I remember learning about it in school was when it came up in a grammar exercise back in fifth or sixth grade.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:09 pm
by Angry Babies in Love
jgalea84 wrote:
Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
jgalea84 wrote:Very surprised at the low conversion numbers for the Peter Minuit tossup.
Why? It may be a weirdly iconic American story, but it's not really an important name to remember in the annals of American History. It is of no use to mention his name, for example, in an AP U.S. History class, as i did not do so in teaching the class this year, nor do i ever plan on it.

Come to think of it, no, i wouldn't have been able to remember his name either, if i were asked to do so.
I agree that he's a minor name in American history, but it's the sort of story that it seems like any history player worth his or her salt would remember.

Or maybe I played Sid Meier's Colonization too much as a child.
I learned it from a video I watched on the history of New York, as well as APUSH. What I've done is I've twinned Stuyvesant and Munuit (probably not a good idea) because I learned them at the same time and they are very similar in roles. Due to that, I probably would have negged with Stuyvesant had I not heard a Minuit tossup in scrimmages on the Friday before with similar clues.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:17 pm
by Important Bird Area
T287 wrote:
T287 wrote:I'd like to see the Peter Minuit and Vandals TUs, please.
I think you may have overlooked my interest in the Vandals TU, and I'd still like to see it, please.
HSNCT round 6 wrote:This group's ruler Gelimer lost the battles of Ad Decimum and Tricamarum. Another ruler, Genseric, kidnapped Licinia Eudoxia following the overthrow of Valentinian III. They were destroyed following a war against Belisarius. This group sacked (*) Hippo, home to St. Augustine, in 430, and later sacked Rome in 455. For 10 points--name this Germanic tribe that plundered North Africa and names a type of destructive behavior.
Not sure why that didn't post properly the first time I tried...

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:19 pm
by Important Bird Area
Wurzel-Flummery wrote:I learned it from a video I watched on the history of New York, as well as APUSH. What I've done is I've twinned Stuyvesant and Minuit (probably not a good idea) because I learned them at the same time and they are very similar in roles. Due to that, I probably would have negged with Stuyvesant had I not heard a Minuit tossup in scrimmages on the Friday before with similar clues.
2006 HSNCT round 15 wrote:In 1638 this man was drowned in a hurricane in the West Indies, having earlier in the year built New Sweden on the Delaware River. In 1626 he succeeded Willem Verhulst as director of New (*) Netherland, and brought together local Indian sachems to legitimize the colonies of the Dutch West India Company. For 10 points--name this leader of New Amsterdam who supposedly spent 60 guilders to buy Manhattan.
The 2006 tossup also had conversion issues: 1/11/14 in 19 rooms.

(This year's: 3/14/29 in 70.)

Enough for me to conclude: we should stop writing tossups on him because too many people will neg with Stuyvesant.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:49 pm
by Urech hydantoin synthesis
bt_green_warbler wrote:Enough for me to conclude: we should stop writing tossups on him because too many people will neg with Stuyvesant.
And write tossups on Stuyvesant instead.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:47 pm
by The Herb
Could I see that Tossup on "Relegation"--as well as the acceptable responses? I may be misremembering, but I recall it confusing me by mentioning aspects of both promotion and relegation.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:40 am
by Kyle
The problem with the tossup on relegation is that it was possible to buzz in and get it right before any clue whatsoever had been given, since it began "This method of entering the Football League..." and there is only one method of entering the Football League that one would ever write a tossup on.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:17 am
by The Herb
Kyle wrote:The problem with the tossup on relegation is that it was possible to buzz in and get it right before any clue whatsoever had been given, since it began "This method of entering the Football League..." and there is only one method of entering the Football League that one would ever write a tossup on.
Ah, shoot. Something about the question must have thrown me off, I guess. I think that when I heard "method of entering the Football League" my brain assumed that the question was asking for something positive.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:16 am
by pray for elves
The Herb wrote:
Kyle wrote:The problem with the tossup on relegation is that it was possible to buzz in and get it right before any clue whatsoever had been given, since it began "This method of entering the Football League..." and there is only one method of entering the Football League that one would ever write a tossup on.
Ah, shoot. Something about the question must have thrown me off, I guess. I think that when I heard "method of entering the Football League" my brain assumed that the question was asking for something positive.
It's true that you can enter the League by being promoted from the Conference.

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:18 pm
by Kyle
Hilarius Bookbinder wrote:
The Herb wrote:
Kyle wrote:The problem with the tossup on relegation is that it was possible to buzz in and get it right before any clue whatsoever had been given, since it began "This method of entering the Football League..." and there is only one method of entering the Football League that one would ever write a tossup on.
Ah, shoot. Something about the question must have thrown me off, I guess. I think that when I heard "method of entering the Football League" my brain assumed that the question was asking for something positive.
It's true that you can enter the League by being promoted from the Conference.
Sure, but would anybody actually write a tossup on promotion?

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:41 pm
by jonpin
Kyle wrote:
Hilarius Bookbinder wrote:
The Herb wrote:
Kyle wrote:The problem with the tossup on relegation is that it was possible to buzz in and get it right before any clue whatsoever had been given, since it began "This method of entering the Football League..." and there is only one method of entering the Football League that one would ever write a tossup on.
Ah, shoot. Something about the question must have thrown me off, I guess. I think that when I heard "method of entering the Football League" my brain assumed that the question was asking for something positive.
It's true that you can enter the League by being promoted from the Conference.
Sure, but would anybody actually write a tossup on promotion?
Truth be told, if I were playing that tossup, I would've negged with "playoff".

Re: 2011 HSNCT conversion stats discussion

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:20 pm
by Irreligion in Bangladesh
Kyle wrote:Sure, but would anybody actually write a tossup on promotion?
I know little about soccer, but it seems to me that promotion and relegation are the exact same process - with the exception that one has you doing well, the other poorly. Therefore, tossupability would be equal, and so I'll ask "would anybody actually write a tossup on relegation?"