2011 NSC - 60 teams

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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:23 pm

Multiple people pretending to be me in the liveblog. Classy.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by MLafer » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:41 pm

Actually what happened was someone named "Crz" has been posting to the liveblog during both HSNCT and NSC weekends and you've been harrassing him about 'pretending to be you' even though he hasn't, in fact, claimed to be you. Maybe his initials are CRZ. Maybe he liked Honda CR-Zs. But your ego can't seem to acknowledge that. The second fake-you is surely mocking your unfounded paranoia.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:54 pm

And the person claiming to be "Adrienne Hirt"? Didn't find that one funny.

EDIT: I actually never once posted anything in the liveblog today, so anyone saying anything in my name was not me.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Haaaaaaaarry Whiiiiiiiiiite » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:28 pm

So it's about 4:30 and Round 6 should hopefully be starting soon.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Papa's in the House » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:03 pm

A Barehanded Telethon Mirth Gun wrote:So it's about 4:30 and Round 6 should hopefully be starting soon.
I think this post just about sums up how bad the logistics of this tournament are.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:05 pm

Papa's in the House wrote:
A Barehanded Telethon Mirth Gun wrote:So it's about 4:30 and Round 6 should hopefully be starting soon.
I think this post just about sums up how bad the logistics of this tournament are.
Why? What's going on?
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by BlueDevil95 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:18 pm

Did Alpharetta almost beat LASA 440-450? I wish I could've watched that game.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by theMoMA » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:19 pm

The second-phase games started about 90 minutes late. There was a series of logistical issues with one of the brackets that was compounded because that bracket was the one in which a tie needed to be broken. Unfortunately, we couldn't reseed until that tie was broken, so the lagging bracket ended up holding back the tournament. Once the teams returned for the tiebreaker, everything went as planned and without any further issues. Everything is now away and we apologize profusely for the delays.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Steeve Ho You Fat » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Carangoides ciliarius wrote:
Papa's in the House wrote:
A Barehanded Telethon Mirth Gun wrote:So it's about 4:30 and Round 6 should hopefully be starting soon.
I think this post just about sums up how bad the logistics of this tournament are.
Why? What's going on?
One bracket had a three way tie for second through fourth places, so none of the wild card games could start until both games of it were resolved so the team from it that ended up getting third could be seeded correctly for the wild cards, I think.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by theMoMA » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:00 pm

Joe N wrote:One bracket had a three way tie for second through fourth places, so none of the wild card games could start until both games of it were resolved so the team from it that ended up getting third could be seeded correctly for the wild cards, I think.
This is what happened. Unfortunately, that bracket had gotten a little over one round behind during the course of the prelims because of some compounding logistical problems. The problems themselves weren't major, but they added up to a long delay. As a result, the people involved in the tiebreaker were the ones who were the last to go to lunch. Because of this the beginning of the tiebreakers was delayed. After the tiebreakers began, everything went pretty much on schedule. The tiebreakers and wildcards procedure took a little under an hour and a quarter and the remaining rounds went smoothly.

We want to apologize again for the delays. We hoped to put our best foot forward with 22 news teams coming this year, but we came up short with the logistics, and we are extremely regretful because of it.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:33 pm

I'm curious how the three way tie for 2nd-4th was resolved. My guess would be it was seeded 1, 2, and 3 by PPG, and then 2 played 3, with the winner playing 1, and the winner of that game taking 3rd place. Then the two losers played for 4th place.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by theMoMA » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:41 pm

Aaron Goldfein wrote:I'm curious how the three way tie for 2nd-4th was resolved. My guess would be it was seeded 1, 2, and 3 by PPG, and then 2 played 3, with the winner playing 1, and the winner of that game taking 3rd place. Then the two losers played for 4th place.
All PACE tiebreaker rules are listed in the rules document, which are available on the PACE website (Rule I).

In this case, the teams were seeded 1-3 based on PPG. The 2 and 3 seeds played one game. The loser took the #4 seed. The winner then played 1 for the #2 seed. The loser of that game got the #3 seed.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Aaron Goldfein » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:07 pm

theMoMA wrote:
Aaron Goldfein wrote:I'm curious how the three way tie for 2nd-4th was resolved. My guess would be it was seeded 1, 2, and 3 by PPG, and then 2 played 3, with the winner playing 1, and the winner of that game taking 3rd place. Then the two losers played for 4th place.
All PACE tiebreaker rules are listed in the rules document, which are available on the PACE website (Rule I).

In this case, the teams were seeded 1-3 based on PPG. The 2 and 3 seeds played one game. The loser took the #4 seed. The winner then played 1 for the #2 seed. The loser of that game got the #3 seed.
That doesn't seem to apply. The rule in question only covers when teams are tied for a given number of advancement spots. I.e., what you did seems appropriate if the three teams were tied for 2nd after the playoffs. However, because third place is significant after the prelim phase, it seems unfair to automatically guarantee the 1 seed 3rd place or better, as well as completely knocking the 2/3 seeds out of contention for 3rd place after a single loss.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:45 pm

We told you so. This tournament was awful, all because of the idiotic schedule. There is no possible way to continue defending the awful ideas that led to this awful experience. This tournament will do so much to kill PACE if nobody can figure out how to fix the phenomenal internal organizational problems with PACE.
Last edited by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:49 pm

I guess i'm still unclear as to what really was the problem today. I guess i just had to be there to understand better.

Charlie, what would you have suggested to improve the situation? Or are you saying that there are larger innate PACE problems that a schedule change cannot fix?
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:52 pm

A schedule change would have fixed a number of stupid things that went on with the tournament, but there are also huge internal problems within PACE that led to this format being greenlit in the first place, and which led to a bunch of other nonsense going on today.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Mike Bentley » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:37 am

There are a few matches up at http://www.doc-ent.com/qbc/NSC2011. I think this computer has a firewall setting that prevents me from reliably being able to upload files to my website, so the other files are still pending.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Deviant Insider » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:32 am

The schedule would have worked well at a tournament that finished its matches at a reasonable time and didn't have any ties. In general, when people make schedules, they need to keep in mind that stuff goes wrong at tournaments, especially if a circle of death involving 3rd place is one of the things that can throw your tournament for a loop. Also, when you have the right number of teams, buzzers, and staffers show up on time, then start playing matches at 9:00, or 9:15 if you want to have a brief awards ceremony before the first match. Another good rule of thumb is that any tournament using bouncebacks needs to have the simplest schedule imaginable. What really screwed this thing up was that one of the pools of 6 couldn't finish its five rounds before 2:00, and I have no idea how that happened when you're flying in good moderators.

On the plus side, this tournament did have good questions, good moderators, and good competition, and I applaud Andrew for the letter of apology he emailed to all coaches last night.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by theMoMA » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:51 am

Aaron Goldfein wrote:That doesn't seem to apply. The rule in question only covers when teams are tied for a given number of advancement spots. I.e., what you did seems appropriate if the three teams were tied for 2nd after the playoffs. However, because third place is significant after the prelim phase, it seems unfair to automatically guarantee the 1 seed 3rd place or better, as well as completely knocking the 2/3 seeds out of contention for 3rd place after a single loss.
PACE rules recognize two three-team tiebreaker scenarios under Rule I: when there are two spots available for advancement and when there is one. In situation that occurred, though the third-place winner had an additional chance to qualify as a wildcard, there was one spot of advancement available. PACE rules simply don't recognize the type of tiebreaker procedure that you outlined above.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:20 am

We seriously got a text from you at 11:30 at night about having to be there in little over 8 hours to play a tiebreaker, when our coach had already gone to bed? Are you kidding me? This is wildly incompetent direction.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Remember-the-Alamo-Remember-Goliad » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:51 am

Thanks much for the LiveBlog yesterday -- it was very helpful!
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by BGSO » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:07 am

Here is a link to today's liveblog:

http://www.coveritlive.com/index.php?op ... 30ea7ece10
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by AKKOLADE » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:39 pm

This was the worst tournament direction I have ever witnessed in my life.
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Kechara » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:29 pm

Jeremy Gibbs Freesy Does It wrote:A schedule change would have fixed a number of stupid things that went on with the tournament, but there are also huge internal problems within PACE that led to this format being greenlit in the first place, and which led to a bunch of other nonsense going on today.
What kind of other nonsense? And who was the TD?
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Re: 2011 NSC - 60 teams

Post by Papa's in the House » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:32 pm

Kechara wrote:[W]ho was the TD?
Gautam Kandlikar and Andrew Hart, formerly from and currently at Minnesota respectively, served as the co-TDs of this tournament.
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