Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

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Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by thebigbossandy »

Hi:

The Brainstormers of Half Hollow Hills West, on Long Island, New York, are hosting our seventeenth annual academic tournament. This year it will be an NAQT tournament on January 8, 2011. This is one of the largest academic quiz bowl tournaments in the North-East. Usually around 75 to 80 teams attend each year. This tournament will be using packet 101A. Trophies will be awarded to the top 32 teams.

Costs are as follows:
1st Team: $90
Additional Teams: $80 each
Buzzers: -$10 each

Registration is from 8:00 to 8:30 and we expect to end by 6:30.

Please e-mail the team at [email protected] to tell us if you can come and if so, how many teams and buzzers. We will be mailing registration packets this week. If you do not know if you are on our mailing list and would like a packet, please email us.

Thanks,
George Margulies

Here is the field update as of January 6 at 3:37 P.M. We are proud to announce that so far we have 82 confirmed teams attending the tournament.

Bishop McDevitt High School (1)
Bloomfield High School (2)
Chatham High School (1)
Deer Park High School (2)
Eastport-South Manor Jr.-Sr. High School (1)
Edgemont High School (2)
Friends Academy (1)
Great Neck South High School (3)
Half Hollow Hills High School East (3)
Harborfields High School (2)
Harrison High School (1)
Horace Greeley High School (2)
Irvington High School (2)
Islip High School (2)
Kellenberg Memorial High School (5)
Kings Park High School (2)
Lenape Valley Regional High School (3)
Livingston High School (3)
McGann-Mercy High School (2)
Millburn High School (1)
Mineola High School (2)
Morristown-Beard School (1)
North Babylon High School (1)
North Shore High School (2)
Our Lady of Mercy Academy (1)
Plainedge High School (3)
Plainview Old Bethpage JFK High School (1)
Port Jefferson High School (3)
Ranney School (1)
Ridgewood High School (2)
Rye Country Day Schol (2)
Seton Hall Prep (3)
St. Anthony's High School (2)
St. Peter's Preparatory School (2)
Valley Stream South High School (5)
The Wheatley School (3)
White Plains High School (4)
Woodlands High School (2)
Last edited by thebigbossandy on Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by WSchneider »

Kings park will send you an email within the week
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by SHP Pirate »

A question to HHH ... Traditionally, your tournament guarantees only four or five prelim rounds. Considering both the economy and the fact that you are using an "A" packet, would you consider either more rounds or a reduced cost? $90 seems steep for so few rounds. What about round-robin playoffs? Just a few thoughts. SHP is planning to attend but, at this price, it will probably be only one team this year.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by BroNi »

I second Coach Z's concern. We have attended for 14 years in a row with 3 to 5 teams. I would like to continue, but your registration fee is way above the norm - especially for the # of games played.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by youngster68 »

Maybe you don't need to hear the same thing from a third, but Hunter also cannot afford to pay that price for the chance of playing 5 rounds. If that issue is addressed then we would love to participate.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

We agree with Seton Hall, Kellenberg, and Hunter.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by gnshsqb »

We also agree with the above posters that the cost will be prohibitive, since we are paying $90 for at minimum of
five rounds.

Most other tournaments will have a lower cost for more rounds, and I am sure that the higher price poses a concern for many, as far as attendance goes.

Thanks.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill »

Could you give us a field update?
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Guybo »

Livingston would like to echo the sentiments of the previous commentors. We would like to send teams but because of the cost and distance for us, we have only gone once. We had a nice time but it was an expensive, long day for us. While your cost is not prohibitively more expensive and is the same as it has been in the past (I believe) I have always wondered why it was always more expensive than all other tournaments in the region. Is it harder to run? Are there more costs involved? Whether it is intended or not, it looks greedy, particulalry in these times of budget slashes and tough times all around. Perhaps you would consider a reduction by $10-$20 per team. We all know how important and difficult it is to fundraise for our teams, but considering that you have such a large turnout (as you deservedly boast) I'm sure you will still be able to make plenty of money for your team with a reduction. Thanks for the consideration.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

I e-mailed these (and my) concerns directly to the HHHW coach a week or two ago, with no reply.

It appears we may not get an answer.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by WSchneider »

To be completely honest, I don't see that much of a difference between this cost and, say, the cost of many other tournaments in the region... All other things considered, it cost the same price last year...
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by eromano »

Greetings everyone,

My name is Evan Romano, and along with Jim Diver, and Matthew Maroney, we are the new coaches for the HHH Quiz Bowl team. We are happy to be running this tournament in keeping with the tradition in which it has successfully run for the past 17 years. We understand the controversy that has been discussed here recently and will be making no changes to the tournament. We’re looking forward to hosting the 66+ teams which have already responded and can’t wait to see you all on January 8th!

Evan Romano
Jim Diver
Matthew Maroney
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by BroNi »

BroNi wrote:I second Coach Z's concern. We have attended for 14 years in a row with 3 to 5 teams. I would like to continue, but your registration fee is way above the norm - especially for the # of games played.
So as you may have noticed, Kellenberg will participate, despite this post of mine. I still have the same concerns....for the number of guaranteed games (5), $90 averages to $18/game.

Here are some others we have attended/ran this season...
Havard Fall: $70/10 games = $7/game
Bergen Samhain: $70/10 games = $7/game
Seton Hall Pirate Open: $60/8 games = $7.5/game
LIFT: $60/10 games = $6/game
Yale FaCT = $80/10 games = $8/game

So, yes it is expensive, period.

But it's well run, it's not 4 hours away by van, it's the very first tourney we cut our teeth on back in '97, and my teams really want to go.....so we're there.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by BroNi »

.....oh, and they have 66 teams attending!!!
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by CalcKing13 »

I am going to make this post even though I am now retired, but still active in the Quiz Bowl Community. I would much rather see this board used in a constructive manner to promote good quiz bowl, instead of as a means of attacking certain Tournaments.

The Hills Tournament is a classy Tournament that has run successfully for 17 years now. There has not been a price increase in the last 5 years. I have copies of Registration Forms from the year 2006 from such schools that ran excellent Jeopardy Tournaments guaranteeing 4 matches. Millburn = $90 for 1st team , Bloomfield= $90 per team. Actually some coaches might have forgotten or were too young to remember Princeton and Yale charging $90-$100 for 1st teams at the beginning of the decade.

I trust that everyone saw the Spring Yale Tournament =$90 for 1st team $85 for 2nd team

Livingston, NJ charged $80 for NAQT Tournament in 2009 and 2010, guarantee of 5 matches.

Westchester Tournaments are comparatively , priced with a guarantee of 3-4 games.
Isn't Knowledge Master about $30 for each match?

Since the Hills Tournament usually attracts 70-80 teams, and 95% of the teams return every year, most teams must appreciate the efforts that are taken to make the Tournament enjoyable and well run.

The Hills Tournament attracts several high power outstanding schools,middle leveel ,and beginning schools. It virtually is impossible to run Round Robin and Consolations Rounds for us with these numbers. Many schools from Long Island like to leave in the afternoon. I would say all high powered schools and middle level schools make the Play-offs.

Since we have such a large number of schools, we advance 32 teams to the Play-Offs And they all receive a rather nice and huge trophy. We feel it is very important to give recognition to more than just a few teams. Most teams are very appreciative and proud to take a nice trophy back to their school,

Also, by playing Single Elimination, NAQT will allow the top 16 teams to qualify for NATIONALS . This is probably one of the highest qualifying tournaments around in the area. It allows other teams, besides the high powers ones, who have already qualified , an excellent chance to qualify.

As far as pricing, I really don't think teams have any clue what it costs to run this tournament.

1) NAQT questions are expensive, The more teams you have, the higher the cost. We pay over $1000 for questions.

2) We spend $800 feeding the 70-80 teams as well as the 200 Hills students that volunteer to help staff the rooms all day.

3) We have to pay Teacher Chaperones to assist with Tournament - $800

4) WE have to pay Custodial Staff - $500

5) Trophies cost $600

6) WE have to pay for lunch for moderators, and volunteers $400

7) Rent High Def, Plasma TV $100 ( Trying to have a few this year) Teams enjoy seeing scores and standings posted.

8) Miscell expenses $200

As you can see, this is a very expensive Tournament, The expensives are double the Profit. The profit is used to go to Nationals.

As you can see, this is an expensive tournament, not cutting corners.

We listened to your suggestions in the past to change from 4 Quarter Format to NAQT Tournament.

We will consider a possible price reduction next year. However, is $5-$10 really a factor in deciding whether to attend a Tournament.

For those of you who knew me when I was the coach, I tried to support everyone's Tournament traveling to New Jersey, Westchester, Penn, Charter, William Tennent(PA) . I did not decide upon a Tournamnet because of a $5-$10 fee differential.

In conclusion,, I wish everyone would be a bit more supportive to their colleagues' Tournaments and less critcial. If you really have a gripe, be professional and perhaps send a personal nonattacking email to the coach privately.

For those who will be attending the HIlls Tournament,on Sat, Jan 8th , I wish you the best and hope to see you there,.


Alan Blayne
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

...and Saint Joe's of Metuchen, NJ just emailed registration of 3 more teams, adding to the festivities. And we agree with Brother Nigel---it is still an expensive tournament, but it is well run and it does offer a large and diverse field of competitors. So, assuming our registration is in on time, we will be there to join in the fun.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by SHP Pirate »

Registration sent via e-mail tonight. One team, four buzzers, and possibly more teams by Monday or Tuesday. Paper copy of registration to follow tomorrow.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

St. Joe's of Metuchen NJ must drop one of its teams---we can only bring TWO teams now, our B & C teams---seems 75 % of my A team players will either be at a Model UN Tournament or a Chess Tournament. We tell you this for seeding purposes, of course.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by SHP Pirate »

If possible, SHP will claim the spot vacated by St. Josephs. In addition, I will have final count tomorrow but I may have up to two additional teams available if you can accomodate. (For a total of 4.)
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by jonah »

CalcKing13 wrote:The Hills Tournament attracts several high power outstanding schools,middle leveel ,and beginning schools. It virtually is impossible to run Round Robin and Consolations Rounds for us with these numbers.
That doesn't make any sense.
CalcKing13 wrote:Many schools from Long Island like to leave in the afternoon.
That simply shouldn't be permitted, because they are depriving other teams of the opportunity to play more games. Teams should be advised that if they cannot stay for the entire tournament, they shouldn't sign up.
CalcKing13 wrote:Also, by playing Single Elimination, NAQT will allow the top 16 teams to qualify for NATIONALS .
That's just gaming the system. Even if it were reasonable, which it is not, it's a bad excuse for denying attendees a fair format.
CalcKing13 wrote:As far as pricing, I really don't think teams have any clue what it costs to run this tournament.
1) NAQT questions are expensive, The more teams you have, the higher the cost. We pay over $1000 for questions.
Almost all sets, at least from good vendors and mirrors, cost a constant rate per team. It doesn't follow that teams' entry fees should be exorbitant: since every team pays (pretty much) the same rate, and the questions are included in that rate, the incoming money that goes toward questions scales precisely with the outgoing money that must be paid for questions.
CalcKing13 wrote:2) We spend $800 feeding the 70-80 teams as well as the 200 Hills students that volunteer to help staff the rooms all day.
3) We have to pay Teacher Chaperones to assist with Tournament - $800
I have no idea why you need 200 student volunteers plus more "teacher chaperones", but that's probably something to cut back on. Even the 208-team HSNCT of last year only had about 150 staffers total—moderators, scorekeepers, stats people, etc.*
CalcKing13 wrote:5) Trophies cost $600
I simply doubt that you get 32 teams who are good enough to deserve a trophy. Yes, I'm in favor of positive recognition, but 32 trophies (roughly 40% of your field, I understand) is an enormous quantity, and one might argue it devalues the trophies of the teams who are actually really good.
CalcKing13 wrote:However, is $5-$10 really a factor in deciding whether to attend a Tournament.
For some teams, yes! It adds up over the course of a season, and getting five guaranteed games is a terrible value anyway. If I were deciding what tournaments a team with a limited budget should go to, I would seek out the ones that give the most games per dollar (among other factors).

*I understand that this was helped by the fact that only 2/3 of the teams played at once. If every team had played all the time, scaling that would be about 225 staffers for a tournament more than twice the size of the HHHW one.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by WSchneider »

jonah wrote:
CalcKing13 wrote:The Hills Tournament attracts several high power outstanding schools,middle leveel ,and beginning schools. It virtually is impossible to run Round Robin and Consolations Rounds for us with these numbers.
That doesn't make any sense. 1
CalcKing13 wrote:Many schools from Long Island like to leave in the afternoon.
That simply shouldn't be permitted, because they are depriving other teams of the opportunity to play more games. Teams should be advised that if they cannot stay for the entire tournament, they shouldn't sign up.2
CalcKing13 wrote:2) We spend $800 feeding the 70-80 teams as well as the 200 Hills students that volunteer to help staff the rooms all day.
3) We have to pay Teacher Chaperones to assist with Tournament - $800
I have no idea why you need 200 student volunteers plus more "teacher chaperones", but that's probably something to cut back on. Even the 208-team HSNCT of last year only had about 150 staffers total—moderators, scorekeepers, stats people, etc.* 3
CalcKing13 wrote:5) Trophies cost $600
I simply doubt that you get 32 teams who are good enough to deserve a trophy. Yes, I'm in favor of positive recognition, but 32 trophies (roughly 40% of your field, I understand) is an enormous quantity, and one might argue it devalues the trophies of the teams who are actually really good.4
1. Having been to HHHW multiple times, and having played in the invitational twice now, I can certainly understand how hard it is to offer consolation rounds in a tournament such as this one. Last year there were close to 100 teams. Taking the top 32 alone is easily managed, but re-bracketing 96 teams could take a whole extra day. (Also, the top 32 teams works out to the top 2 teams in each bracket in that figure, which actually sounds pretty fair)

2. Thats a regional thing. Many of these schools don't have "official" quiz bowl teams, and some are also :chip: traps, attracted to this tournament because of it's high reputation. While higher-end teams do often make the large playoff bracket, the teams that WANT to leave early are often able to.

3. From what I saw the student volunteer number may be a large estimate, but not by much... The tournament often has plenty of buzzer-workers, scorekeepers, guides, data processors (not just stats), etc. While perhaps a pain to manage, it certainly appears to help things run more smoothly

4. Once again, that's a regional thing. Many of these schools only make it to 1-2 tournaments a year. Reserving trophies to the top 16 or top 8 would mean that the vast majority of the schools who attend few tournaments would have no shot when compared to schools that travel and play. While yes, that may devalue the trophy to the higher-end team, I think it convinces players and schools to like the game.

5. On one other note I think may resolve some problems, perhaps Swiss-Pairing the playoff bracket? That would guarantee the best teams the chance to win, it would guarantee them a trophy, and it would guarantee them more rounds... It's more work, but it could make more teams happy... just a suggestion to Mr Romano.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by jonah »

WSchneider wrote:Swiss-Pairing the playoff bracket
That's functionally equivalent to single-elimination in terms of who can win; the only reason it's better is that teams other than the top two get more games.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by WSchneider »

jonah wrote:That's functionally equivalent to single-elimination in terms of who can win; the only reason it's better is that teams other than the top two get more games.
I don't mean win in terms of the tournament as a whole, I meant win in terms of play more games (and, you know... win them)... It sucks to be Hunter A vs Kellenberg A first round of a playoff, and see one of them get eliminated too early, despite clear merit (now, granted, the way single elimination playoffs are run seems to prevent that anyway, but I'm proving a point).

The general idea is to guarantee more games for the competitive teams who WANT to have more games to play.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by hswquizbowl »

We are aware that there is some concern about the weather predictions. We will let you know by email no later than 8:00 AM on Friday if the tournament has to be postponed due to inclement weather.

Looking forward to seeing everyone Saturday.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Charbroil »

WSchneider wrote:...buzzer-workers...
Just out of curiosity, what's a buzzer-worker? Also just for the sake of clarification, it doesn't seem to make sense to require 200 workers even if there are a variety of additional workers. Assuming two workers per room, you have 96 staffers in rooms, and it doesn't seem likely that you'd need more than 10-20 additional staffers in all of the roles you described. Unless you're replacing nearly every staffer at lunchtime and every outgoing and incoming staffer eats, there doesn't seem to be any reason to have 200 students staffing, especially if there are also teacher chaperones staffing.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Sen. Estes Kefauver (D-TN) »

So, as completely absurd as Mr. Blayne's response was (plasma TVs? Are you kidding me?), I have to jump in to attack the dogmatic insistence on not using single elimination. If you have 96 teams, 12 packets, and a single day to run your event, there is no other choice. There are more ideal formats you can use with better numbers, but there are real, justifiable reasons, this being one of them, to use single elimination, given that there is literally nothing else that can be done to determine a winner. This is a pretty good example of a symptom of how people aren't able to understand the difference between question debates (there are categorically bad questions, and we should convince people to not use them) with debating the many more nuanced aspects of running ideal tournaments where suddenly your personal preference is no longer obviously the right thing. In debating whether people should use good questions or bad questions, the personal preferences of people supporting good questions happen to perfectly align with what is right. You all need to take a step back in every other debate here and realize that your personal preferences are not always right the way they are in question debates, and maybe that can help discussion here not be so completely retarded when we talk about bouncebacks or single elimination. Please, everybody.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

I am sorry to inform you that Saint Joseph's of Metuchen no longer has transportation for this weekend due to a bureaucratic foul-up that I just learned of, so our 2 teams will no longer be able to attend. I also sent you an email stating this as well, doubling your chances to learn of this unfortunate development in a timely manner.

Naturally we hope and trust that you have a great tournament and that everyone in attendance has a great time. We are sorry that we will miss the festivities, but we hope to see you in the near future.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by SHP Pirate »

George,

Would you please clarify the status of tomorrow's tournament. I received two e-mails this morning -both at 7:49. The first stated that the tournament was rescheduled for March 26. The second stated that the tournament was on as scheduled.

Michael

Edit: never mind!
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by hswquizbowl »

Hi:

All teams that registered received two emails this morning. The first email (the cancellation one) was not meant to be sent out and should be disregarded. The Hills West Invitational will run as planned tomorrow.

Thanks so much,
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by SHP Pirate »

Great! See you tomorrow.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by IrvAC »

Due to our school's snow day today, my team cannot communicate with my coach. Therefore, can anyone tell me what time lunch is tomorrow?
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill »

I have received word that Kings Park A just completed its third round. Two hours after they completed the first round. I don't remember the prelims being that slow last year.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Any word on results? Tournaments run on A-sets normally should go pretty quickly.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill »

The captain of KP's A team has been sending me his team's stats. I received Round 7's stats a few minutes ago. Now I'm kinda glad that no more guaranteed rounds were added.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by jonpin »

Well that's what happens when you run a tournament that's so massive that you have to have random student and teacher volunteers reading lots of games.

Just to clarify, by "random", I mean student and teacher volunteers who are not otherwise involved with quiz bowl.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by WSchneider »

the tournament started off really slow. There were a lot of cancellations without notification, and that threw off brackets badly, so there were disaster stories about teams getting byes they should not have, sitting in rooms listening to rounds they were supposed to play... Once everything got on track it moved a little faster, but even still lunch was 2:30-3:30...

All-in-all a pretty good day though, the tournament was well-run (despite mishaps that had nothing to do with Mr Romano, Mr Blayne, or anybody running the tournament), and it seemed that people had fun.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill »

To clarify Will's post, he told me that "only" 64 teams showed up. Additionally, one team they faced was added to the roster sometime after the last field update was made, so at least 19 teams dropped in the last two days with varying levels of warning. Curse you Friday snowstorms!
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by kevmschmid »

Congrats on another sweet tournament. As always, it was extremely well organized and my team and I had a great time. I'm sad that this year is the last time I will play in the HHH quizbowl. It was well worth the 9000 pennies, and thanks for four years of fun!
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

Any results from anyone in attendance?
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Arthur.Ramsay »

Robert and/or Will:

During the bracketing process, there were originally a total of 82 teams, so yes, there were a lot of cancellations due to the snowstorm, which was not as bad as I expected.

Also, the stats for the end (of the tournament) are as follows:

In the Semi-finals, Kellenberg defeated Livingston, while White Plains beat North Bablyon (I do not know the stats because I was dissasembling buzzer systems).

During the finals, Kellenberg and White Plains were tied up to around Question 14, where Kellenberg powered and got all of the bonuses for most of the questions, and White Plains got the last question, for a grand total of 460-250.

All in all, the day was a great experience, and I look forward to next year.

Lastly, I want to thank Mr. Romano and Mr. Diver (our TDs), Mr. Maroney (In charge of all the stats), as well as Mr. Blayne, Mrs. Hu, Mrs. Marguiles, and all of the Staff/Student Moderators and the volunteers. Great Job!

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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by BroNi »

Unofficial results to satisfy the curious...

64 teams from 27 schools.

Top 32 in single elimination playoffs.

Quarterfinals (with rankings from the 5 prelims)
Kellenberg A (1) d. Kings Park A (8)
North Bablylon A (7) d. Seton Hall A (2)
White Plains A (3) d. Great Neck S A (6)
Livingston A (5) d. Horace Greeley A (4)

Semifinals
Kellenberg A (1) d. Livingston A (5)
White Plains A (3) d. North Babylon A (7)

Final
Kellenberg A (1) 460 d. White Plains A (3) 255
Bro. Nigel, Coach, Kellenberg Memorial HS, NY
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Edward Powers »

Thank you Brother Nigel for providing info to satisfy the curious. Sorry we could not be there to join in the fun. And, of course, congratulations to you and your kids for another Championship performance. You're making it hard for the rest of us to keep up! But on the other hand, your kids are easy to root for, so, once again, congrats. Hope to see you soon.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by CalcKing13 »

Despite weather problems with the snow, cancellations, some schools not calling to cancel, some schools switching the number of teams after checking in, Hills West Quiz Bowl team pulled off their 18th consecutive Invitational Quiz Bowl successfully.

Congratulations to the Hills West Quiz Bowl team, led by Captain George Margulies in their success in running the Hills West Tournament. Special kudos to George for all of his correspondence with other coaches and keeping all of the teams informed of what is going on.

Special kudos are in order to coaches Evan Romano, Jim Diver, and Matt Maroney for running one of the largest Quiz Bowl Tournaments in their first year as advisors and Coordinators of the Hills West Invitational.

Thanks also to Mrs. Margulies and Mrs Hu for working a 14 hour day on registration, and the selling of pizza and beverages. And most importantly, keeping track of the buzzer systems and shopping for donuts, orange juice, soda, water, etc.. Thanks to Mrs. Dwyer for her assistance in the morning.

Special thanks to David Madden, Director of the National Histroy Bowl and National History Bee for supplying his buzzer systems, and his whole day as a Moderator at Hills West.

Thanks also to Freshmen Arthur Ramsay, for his hard working and posting results here ASAP.and his appreciation for all those that helped with the Tournament. He will be a future Quiz Bowl Star.

I would also like to thank the many coaches and teams who spoke to me on Saturday, telling me how great a time that they had at our Tournament and also many students said they have been here for the past 4 years and really appreciate all the hard work and effort that is put into making the Tournament successful.

Thank you also to the coaches that have emailed us, expressing their gratitude for such a great day

Thanks also to the teachers and volunteer students who helped throughout the day.

I must also respond to Mr. Jonah Greenthal, who has so many criticisms of our Tournament. He criticized us for having a large staff, saying National Tournaments don’t even require such large staffs. Why then are National Tournaments more expensive some $500 plus? No food is included, many teams have to pay for plane tickets, hotel accomodations, food. Some National Tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a Winners bracket. It also is the luck of the draw in some of these National Tournament who you are paired up with. This makes some National Tournaments pretty expensive if it is broken down how much cost there is per game? One match could be priced at $40-$50 per game?

I am not really bothered by this , but Mr. Greenthal would appear to be bothered by cost per game? Also the format at the different Nationals vary also. That is quite all right for me.

I wish to thank Mr. Charlie Dees for saying it quite well, “Personal preferences are not always right.” Let schools decide what type of Tournaments they wish to run, whether it be single elimination or some type of round robin. I have gone to many College Run Tournaments and High school ones, where no more than 24, or 32 teams can be accomodated. Usually because we don’t have that many moderators and staff. I think any College or High school Tournament atracting 75+ teams must be doing something correctly. I would recommed if you don’t like a certain format that Is being used or how it is run, that you should not attend that Tournament. Mr. Greenthal has never attended a Hills Touranemnt.

As for Mr. Jon Pinyan who critcizes Hills West for using what he calls random teacher and student moderators , his logic makes no sense at all. With around 80 teams participating, it is necessary to have 40 Competent moderators and perhaps 40 competent score keepers also to insure accurate stats. These teachers and students who complement the Quiz bowl teams members are not selected off the street. They are trained and learn the rules. I will say that when I attended one of Mr. Pinyan’s Tournaments last year, first there was a restriction as to how many teams woul d be allowed to participate. I remember sittting in a room near the end of the Tournament where the moderator was speaking in a way that no one was understanding what was being said. No one want to embarrass the moderator, but when I told Mr. Pinyan, at the end of the game, he said he did not have anyone else available to read. The moderator was one of the younger students on his quiz bowl team. Wouldn’t it be better to have a competent teacher/volunteer Moderator? His logic makes no sense.

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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by AKKOLADE »

CalcKing13 wrote:I must also respond to Mr. Jonah Greenthal, who has so many criticisms of our Tournament. He criticized us for having a large staff, saying National Tournaments don’t even require such large staffs. Why then are National Tournaments more expensive some $500 plus? No food is included, many teams have to pay for plane tickets, hotel accomodations, food. Some National Tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a Winners bracket. It also is the luck of the draw in some of these National Tournament who you are paired up with. This makes some National Tournaments pretty expensive if it is broken down how much cost there is per game? One match could be priced at $40-$50 per game?

I am not really bothered by this , but Mr. Greenthal would appear to be bothered by cost per game? Also the format at the different Nationals vary also. That is quite all right for me.
National tournaments have to pay for transportation and lodging for their staff, the production of new questions, food for their staffers, and various other costs like printing the questions, renting the site, .

I also know that neither NAQT, HSAPQ or PACE organize their brackets by any sort of random draw.
I would recommed if you don’t like a certain format that Is being used or how it is run, that you should not attend that Tournament. Mr. Greenthal has never attended a Hills Touranemnt.
Jonah's attendance of a Hills tournament does not preclude him from criticizing it.
As for Mr. Jon Pinyan who critcizes Hills West for using what he calls random teacher and student moderators , his logic makes no sense at all. With around 80 teams participating, it is necessary to have 40 Competent moderators and perhaps 40 competent score keepers also to insure accurate stats. These teachers and students who complement the Quiz bowl teams members are not selected off the street. They are trained and learn the rules. I will say that when I attended one of Mr. Pinyan’s Tournaments last year, first there was a restriction as to how many teams woul d be allowed to participate. I remember sittting in a room near the end of the Tournament where the moderator was speaking in a way that no one was understanding what was being said. No one want to embarrass the moderator, but when I told Mr. Pinyan, at the end of the game, he said he did not have anyone else available to read. The moderator was one of the younger students on his quiz bowl team. Wouldn’t it be better to have a competent teacher/volunteer Moderator? His logic makes no sense.
Saying Jon's logic "makes no sense at all" without any support is, itself, nonsensical. Unless you intend your argument to be "Pinyan once used a bad moderator, so he cannot criticize other moderators," which is also nonsensical.

I'm not aware of the issue surrounding his one moderator in question, but a single bad reader does not mean that the TD in question does not know how to recruit staffers. Issues arise where people you plan on having read do not show up, or do not perform as expected.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by jonah »

CalcKing13 wrote:I must also respond to Mr. Jonah Greenthal, who has so many criticisms of our Tournament. He criticized us for having a large staff, saying National Tournaments don’t even require such large staffs. Why then are National Tournaments more expensive some $500 plus? No food is included, many teams have to pay for plane tickets, hotel accomodations, food. Some National Tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a Winners bracket. It also is the luck of the draw in some of these National Tournament who you are paired up with. This makes some National Tournaments pretty expensive if it is broken down how much cost there is per game? One match could be priced at $40-$50 per game?

I am not really bothered by this , but Mr. Greenthal would appear to be bothered by cost per game? Also the format at the different Nationals vary also. That is quite all right for me.
Fred gave a lot of the reasons that national tournaments cost what they do, but I'd like to add that it's totally false that "some national tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a winners bracket". The HSNCT guarantees 10 games. I don't know if they have written guarantees in general, but last year everyone got 14 at NSC and I think 13 at NASAT. As Fred said, it is again false that the "luck of the draw" plays any role in determining matchups in any national tournament.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Mechanical Beasts »

jonah wrote:
CalcKing13 wrote:I must also respond to Mr. Jonah Greenthal, who has so many criticisms of our Tournament. He criticized us for having a large staff, saying National Tournaments don’t even require such large staffs. Why then are National Tournaments more expensive some $500 plus? No food is included, many teams have to pay for plane tickets, hotel accomodations, food. Some National Tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a Winners bracket. It also is the luck of the draw in some of these National Tournament who you are paired up with. This makes some National Tournaments pretty expensive if it is broken down how much cost there is per game? One match could be priced at $40-$50 per game?

I am not really bothered by this , but Mr. Greenthal would appear to be bothered by cost per game? Also the format at the different Nationals vary also. That is quite all right for me.
Fred gave a lot of the reasons that national tournaments cost what they do, but I'd like to add that it's totally false that "some national tournaments guarantee you 5-6 preliminary matches and then successful teams are moved into a winners bracket". The HSNCT guarantees 10 games. I don't know if they have written guarantees in general, but last year everyone got 14 at NSC and I think 13 at NASAT. As Fred said, it is again false that the "luck of the draw" plays any role in determining matchups in any national tournament.
I'm fairly certain the NAC gives you very few games and is expensive. I'd note that "this notoriously terrible tournament is worse on a cost-per-game basis than ours, and it qualifies as a 'national tournament', so I'll use it as my lone data point from that group" is a terrible application of logic.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Are we going to see any actual results/stats from this tournament?
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Golran »

History points to the stats being posted only on NAQT's site.
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Down and out in Quintana Roo »

Mr. Andrew Chrzanowski
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Re: Half Hollow Hills West Invitational (Dix Hills, NY 1/8/11)

Post by Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill »

They did post prelim stats last year, but one game was duplicated and many teams with results less than 4-1 had their stats split among two teams of the same name.
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