A brief, and now concluded, discussion about saving unused sets

NAQT HSNCT, NAQT IPNCT, NAQT SSNCT, PACE NSC, and NASAT are discussed here.
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Shahar S.
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A brief, and now concluded, discussion about saving unused sets

Post by Shahar S. »

Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.

Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.

The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by John Quincy Adams's Alligator »

Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.

Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.

The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
This is absolutely absurd. Pragmatically, this would put huge financial strain on the organizations who have to pay writers for hundreds of questions, since there is no feasible alternative that would raise near enough to recoup normal costs of set writing. Question writers are already paid less than their fair share! This would make no sense for anyone involved in producing the questions. Ethically - why are you entitled to anything? There is a "least" the question writers can do, and that is nothing - the questions are the property of the question writers/editors/organization. Why would it not be "allowed?" Who should be able to tell a set what to do with its questions?

I suspect you don't really understand how much work goes into orchestrating a set the size of any nationals, but it is ridiculously disrespectful to think that an organization not wanting to release a dozen packets (almost 500 questions!) is a matter of "convenience." You're allowed to be frustrated over Nats being canceled, as most people are at the moment, but that does not excuse ridiculous, petty demands that make you sound this entitled.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by A Dim-Witted Saboteur »

Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.

Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.

The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
Aside from the fact that many of these national tournaments are canceled rather than postponed because the current crisis has an indeterminate end date, and this postponement happened in the first place because any face-to-face tournament, even one run by high schoolers, would be unsafe, it is not a matter of "convenience" that these sets are being used next year: these organizations assembled the dozen or so packets you refer to on the expectation of making money from having them played in order to compensate their writers and coordinate logistics for these tournaments (not cheap!), several of whom rely on this as a major or even a primary source of income.

I completely understand your disappointment: this sucks a lot! for everyone! Your anger is just misdirected here. If you want to do something to help folks out during this crisis so it can be over sooner, I recommend calling your senator or representative to ask them to pass a comprehensive relief bill so it's economically viable for people to take the necessary social distancing measures or helping elderly people in your neighborhood with their groceries so they don't need to go outside. Quiz bowl organizations care a lot about their players and are trying hard to find solutions that will best preserve the well-being of all stakeholders concerned. Focus your attention on people who aren't.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by Oh No You Didn't »

Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to?
Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pmThe fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that.
Why doesn't it?
Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
Quizbowl organizations aren't made of money yo. Frankly as a writer I'd find it disrespectful if questions I had written for nationals were just released without being played. I don't quite understand how this is unacceptable outside of... really just your mind?
Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pmThe very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
See above. Additionally I have different goals than other people but I suspect that "providing opportunities for a pandemic level disease to propagate" is not really what I'd call a quality experience of players re rescheduling in the immediate future.

I'm quite disappointed that NSC had to be cancelled, I certainly was looking forward to Nats season but the tone of your post just feels entitled and aggravating.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by AKKOLADE »

Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Frankly I think you'd get very, very few sign ups for anything resembling this idea, including from my team. The whole point of nationals is to play against other people in real time. Your suggested format would allow for none of that.

Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.

The very least these organizations could do is release a dozen or so packets before the end of the year so that we could organize something on our own, if not pull out all the stops to try to get their competitions rescheduled.
Let's call 12 packets 252 tossups and 252 bonuses. If you'd like 12 packets of NASAT-level questions, written and edited for your own entertainment, feel free to cough up the ~$3600 I would spend to make that happen.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by CPiGuy »

Shahar S. wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:44 pm Also with regards to national organizations saving their sets for next year... why the hell should they be allowed to do that? The fact that a national competition isn't feasible right now doesn't excuse that. If national organizations refuse to release questions because they think they can make more money if they save them from last year, that sends a very bad message to Quizbowl players now. It would show that, fundamentally, the people in charge of creating these sets care more about their own convenience than providing a quality experience for their players. That is unacceptable.
jesus christ, dude, do you hear what you're saying?

quizbowl organizations are not profiteering villains, they're doing everything they can, and your trying to accuse them of malfeasance for that is ridiculously stupid, petty, entitled, and several other non-flattering adjectives.

i get that you're angry and disappointed. but here's a secret: ALL OF US ARE :capybara: ING ANGRY AND DISAPPOINTED. and 99% of us aren't accusing PACE of goddamn disaster profiteering.

please take a hard look at yourself and stop making posts which make all of our lives worse for having to read them, dude.
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Shahar S.
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Re: Nationals Alternatives?

Post by Shahar S. »

Clearly I vastly misjudged the amount of work and money people have put into this. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I sincerely apologize for my idiotic statements. They were totally uncalled for.
Shahar Schwartz

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